CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`SOLENIS, LLC, )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. ) IPR2016-01281
` ) IPR2016-01282
`ECOLAB USA, INC. )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`
` CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`
` Deposition of DAVID A. DYER, Ph.D., taken
`
`before NADINE J. WATTS, CSR, RPR, and Notary Public,
`
`pursuant to the Rules of the United States Patent and
`
`Trademark Office, pertaining to the taking of
`
`depositions, at Suite 3300, 55 East Monroe Street, in
`
`the City of Chicago, Cook County, Illinois, at 8:30 a.m.
`
`on the 2nd day of May, A.D., 2017.
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
`
`
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
`
`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`SOLENIS, LLC, )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. ) IPR2016-01281
` ) IPR2016-01282
`ECOLAB USA, INC. )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`
` CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`
` Deposition of DAVID A. DYER, Ph.D., taken
`
`before NADINE J. WATTS, CSR, RPR, and Notary Public,
`
`pursuant to the Rules of the United States Patent and
`
`Trademark Office, pertaining to the taking of
`
`depositions, at Suite 3300, 55 East Monroe Street, in
`
`the City of Chicago, Cook County, Illinois, at 8:30 a.m.
`
`on the 2nd day of May, A.D., 2017.
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
`
`Page 2
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` There were present at the taking of this
`
`deposition the following counsel:
`
` McDERMOTT WILL & EMERY, LLP by
` MR. KEVIN P. SHORTSLE and
` MR. ALEX GRABOWSKI
` 444 West Lake Street
` Suite 4000
` Chicago, Illinois 60606
` (312) 984-3361
` kshortsle@mwe.com
` agrabowski@mwe.com
`
` on behalf of the Petitioner;
`
` MERCHANT & GOULD, PC by
` MS. RACHEL ZIMMERMAN SCOBIE and
` MS. ANNELIESE MAYER
` 3200 IDS Center
` 80 South Eighth Street
` Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402
` (612) 332-5300
` rscobie@merchantgould.com
` amayer@merchantgould.com
`
` on behalf of the Patent Owner.
`
`ALSO PRESENT: Mr. Corey R. Anthony, Ph.D.
` Nalco Water, an Ecolab Company
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
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`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 3
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` DEPOSITION OF DAVID A. DYER, Ph.D.
`
` TAKEN MAY 2, 2017
`
`EXAMINATION BY PAGE
`
`Ms. Rachel Zimmerman Scobie 6
`
` EXHIBITS
`
` PAGE
`
`DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 1030 209
` MG0027144 - 0027144.0004
` Letter from International Paper
` to Nalco Company dated March 1, 2005
`
`DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 1031 213
` MG0024558 - 0024558.0011
` Nalco Filler Pre-Treatment WMU
` Pilot Trial, February 2010
`
`DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 1032 213
` MG0024354 - 0024354.0007
` Riverdale Trial Form
`
`DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 1033 214
` MG0135685 - 0135685.0007
` Summary of FillerTEK Trial at
` IP Riverdale, PM15, December 8, 2010
`
`DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 1034 215
` NAL0013053 - 0013059
` International Paper Internal Memorandum
` dated December 14, 2010 to Distribution
` Subject: FillerTEK Trial Results
`
`DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 1035 215
` MG0135649 - 0135650.0006
` E-mail from David Lilburn to David
` Sirois dated August 20, 2011
` Subject: Nalco FillerTEK Trial 2
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
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`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 4
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` EXHIBITS (Continued)
`
` PAGE
`
`DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 1036 216
` MG0126953 - 0126953.0026
` Riverdale PM15 FulFill V426
` Project Status, October 2, 2013
`
`DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 1037 218
` MG0068535 - 0068536.0002
` E-mail from Katherine Broadus to
` Dave Dyer dated November 1, 2011
` Subject: Selma PM 15 Oct 15 Filler
` Skid Summary for Dyer.xls
`
`DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 1038 219
` MG0068672 - 0068673.0002
` E-mail attaching Conference Call
` Minutes, Riverdale FillerTEK Project
` Status, November 17, 2011
`
`DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 1039 221
` MG0063415 - 0063416.0010
` E-mail attaching FillTEK/FulFill V
` Riverdale Project Status, March 22, 2012
`
`DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 1040 221
` MG0060012 - 0060013.0010
` E-mail attaching FillerTEK Lab
` Testing - Selma PM 15 Week 7/16/12
`
` PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS
`
` PAGE
`
`EXHIBIT 1001 64
` U.S. Patent No. 8,465,623
`
`EXHIBIT 1001 183
` U.S. Patent No. 8,088,250
`
`EXHIBIT 1002 27
` Declaration of David A. Dyer,
` Ph.D. for Patent No. 8,465,623
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
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`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 5
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` PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS (Continued)
`
` PAGE
`
`EXHIBIT 1002 183
` Declaration of David A. Dyer,
` Ph.D. for Patent No. 8,088,250
`
`EXHIBIT 1007 70
` U.S. Patent No. 5,126,014
`
`EXHIBIT 1009 103
` Papermaking Science and Technology
` Book 4, Papermaking Chemistry, Second
` Edition
`
`EXHIBIT 1010 138
` United States Patent Office
` 2,992,964, Sized Mineral Filled Paper
` and Method of Making Same
`
`EXHIBIT 1011 139
` U.S. Patent No. 5,017,268
`
`EXHIBIT 1012 115
` Japanese Patent No. 2006/100996 A1
`
`EXHIBIT 1014 72
` U.S. Patent No. 5,653,795
`
`EXHIBIT 1018 117
` Principles of Wet End Chemistry
` by William E. Scott, Ph.D.
`
`EXHIBIT 1025 23
` Resume of David A. Dyer, Ph.D.
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`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 6
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` DAVID A. DYER, Ph.D.,
`
`called as a witness herein, having been first duly
`
`sworn, was examined upon oral interrogatories and
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`testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
` by Ms Zimmerman Scobie:
`
` MS. ZIMMERMAN SCOBIE: Q Good morning, Dr. Dyer.
`
` A Good morning.
`
` Q I want to start by asking, have you been deposed
`
`before?
`
` A Once, quite a few years ago.
`
` Q Do you know approximately how long ago that was?
`
` A In the -- It would have been in the early '90s.
`
` Q Okay. I'm sure that your counsel's given you
`
`some instructions, but I just want to go over some of
`
`the ground rules for the deposition today.
`
` A Okay.
`
` Q As you'll remember maybe from the last time you
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`were deposed, I will be asking you a series of questions
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`throughout the day and I will be asking you to give me
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`verbal answers to those questions. Okay?
`
` A Uh-huh, yes.
`
` Q And another thing is that because the court
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`reporter is going to be taking down everything that I
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`say, as well as your responses, your answers will need
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 7
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`to be yeses or nos as opposed to uh-huhs. Okay?
`
` A I understand. Understood.
`
` Q Also, because the court reporter is going to be
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`taking down everything we say, we need to make sure that
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`we're not talking over each other. Okay?
`
` A Fair enough.
`
` Q Okay. So I will ask you to wait until my
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`question is finished before giving an answer, and I will
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`try to wait until your answer is completed before asking
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`my next question. Is that fair?
`
` A Fair.
`
` Q Okay. If you have a question about any of the
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`questions I'm asking you today or they are unclear to
`
`you in any way, will you please let me know?
`
` A I will.
`
` Q Okay. And, then, is there any reason why you
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`can't give complete, accurate, and truthful testimony
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`here today?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Not on any medication that would affect your
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`ability to testify?
`
` A I am not.
`
` Q Okay. What was the context of the prior
`
`deposition that you gave?
`
` A It had to do with a -- when I was managing at
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 8
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`the Mobile Mill for International Paper. It had to do
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`with a safety issue.
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` Q Was it a litigation that involved International
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`Paper then as a party?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q And you were testifying as an employee of
`
`International Paper?
`
` A Correct.
`
` Q Okay. And it was not an intellectual property
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`dispute?
`
` A No, it was not.
`
` Q Have you been involved in any way, other than
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`that litigation, in any other litigation?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Have you ever testified in a trial?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Do you have any patents?
`
` A I have one patent as a coauthor.
`
` Q And is that a patent that is owned by
`
`International Paper do you know?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q And does it relate to papermaking?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q And is it related to flexibility of paperboards?
`
` A I'm not sure what you mean by flexibility.
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`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
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`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 9
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` Q Why don't you tell me what the general subject
`
`matter of the patent that you're referring to is.
`
` A Actually, the patent was written by a colleague,
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`and I was technical support for that project, and it had
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`to do with paperboard, bleach board, developing improved
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`strengths of the bleach board.
`
` Q Okay. And no other patents that you've been
`
`involved with or --
`
` A No.
`
` Q -- named as an inventor on?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Have you ever been asked to serve as an expert
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`before?
`
` A No.
`
` Q How did you come to be retained as an expert in
`
`this matter?
`
` A I was approached by counsel based on
`
`recommendations -- as I understand it, based on
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`recommendations from folks in the industry.
`
` Q Did you discuss your ability to serve as an
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`expert in this matter with anyone prior to accepting the
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`position?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Outside of discussions that you may have had
`
`with counsel for Solenis or with -- Well, outside of
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
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`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 10
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`discussions you may have had with counsel for Solenis,
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`have you had any discussions about your role as an
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`expert in this case with anyone?
`
` MR. SHORTSLE: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Yes, I had talked to my former boss at
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`International before I retired.
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` MS. ZIMMERMAN SCOBIE: Q And did any discussion
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`that you had with that individual impact your opinions
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`in this case?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Why were you talking with that individual?
`
` A To get his opinion on my serving on this case.
`
` Q And that was after you had already accepted the
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`position though; is that right?
`
` A It was in between the time that I was asked and
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`the time that I accepted.
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` Q Okay. So earlier I had asked if you had talked
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`to anyone before accepting the position as an expert on
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`this case and you had said no. So was that a mistake?
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` MR. SHORTSLE: Objection, mischaracterizes prior
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`testimony.
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` THE WITNESS: I don't recall making that statement,
`
`but I talked to this individual prior to accepting the
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`position.
`
` MS. ZIMMERMAN SCOBIE: Q Okay. And prior to
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
`
`
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 11
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`preparing the declaration that you prepared?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q What is the name of that individual?
`
` A Dr. Matt Bovee.
`
` Q B-O-V-E-E?
`
` A Uh-huh, yes.
`
` Q Okay. Other than Dr. Bovee, is there anyone
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`else that you spoke to about your engagement as an
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`expert in this matter for Solenis? Again, outside of
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`counsel.
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` MR. SHORTSLE: Objection, vague as to time.
`
` THE WITNESS: Not before I accepted the position as
`
`an expert.
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` MS. ZIMMERMAN SCOBIE: Q Okay. What about after?
`
` A There was a conversation long after I accepted,
`
`a brief conversation, with legal counsel at
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`International Paper.
`
` Q And who was that?
`
` A Tom Barnes.
`
` Q And did that discussion affect in any way your
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`opinions in this case?
`
` A No, it did not.
`
` Q And anyone else that you spoke to concerning
`
`your engagement in this matter?
`
` A No.
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
`
`
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 12
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` Q Approximately when were you retained as an
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`expert by Solenis?
`
` A Early in 2016. I want to say spring of 2016.
`
` Q At the time you were retained, were you retained
`
`specifically -- was it your understanding that you were
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`being retained specifically for the IPR proceeding?
`
` MR. SHORTSLE: Objection.
`
` THE WITNESS: I was -- My impression was that I was
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`being retained as an expert witness for the issue, you
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`know, whether it's IPR or whatever, but to provide
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`expert advice to the case.
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` MS. ZIMMERMAN SCOBIE: Q Okay. Did you do any
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`work in connection with the litigation proceeding prior
`
`to the preparation of your declaration in the IPR?
`
` MR. SHORTSLE: Objection. This is work product and
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`privileged. He hasn't produced any report or any other
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`information related to the litigation. So I'm going to
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`object on the basis of relevance.
`
` THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the question?
`
` MS. ZIMMERMAN SCOBIE: Q Is the work that you've
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`done on this matter limited to work on your declaration
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`in the IPR?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Have you done other working for Solenis in the
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`past?
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
`
`
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 13
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` A Yes.
`
` Q When did you do other work for Solenis?
`
` A When I was employed with International Paper.
`
`Between Solenis and Hercules, the previous name, I did
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`work of a technical nature as part of my job with
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`International Paper.
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` Q Okay. At that time you were employed by
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`International Paper though, correct?
`
` A That's correct.
`
` Q Okay. Since working -- Since you left
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`International Paper have you done any other consulting
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`or other work for Solenis outside of this matter?
`
` A Not for Solenis, no.
`
` Q Okay. So you understand that there was a
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`litigation proceeding between Nalco and Solenis,
`
`correct?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Okay. And then you understand that Solenis
`
`filed a Petition for Inter Partes Review of the Nalco
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`patents involved in that proceeding?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Okay. In connection with the litigation, the
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`parties generated and produced certain documents. Did
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`you ever review documents that were a part of the
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`litigation production?
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
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`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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` A Yes.
`
` Q Did you ever sign off on the protective order
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`that was entered in the litigation?
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` A No, I don't -- I don't recall.
`
` Q Do you know if any of the documents that you
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`reviewed in connection with the litigation production
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`were Solenis documents -- or, sorry, were Nalco
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`documents?
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` A I don't recall. I don't recall.
`
` Q Can you tell me what you did to prepare for your
`
`deposition today?
`
` A I'm sorry, could you speak up?
`
` Q Yes. Could you tell me what you did to prepare
`
`for your deposition today?
`
` A I reviewed the declaration. I reviewed the
`
`documents that -- referenced in the declaration.
`
` Q Did you meet with counsel?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q When did you do that?
`
` A Yesterday.
`
` Q About how long did you meet?
`
` A Six or seven hours.
`
` Q Now, your deposition has been rescheduled a
`
`couple of times. Other than the meeting that you had
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`yesterday, had you had meetings with counsel to prepare
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`www.deposition.com
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`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 15
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`for this deposition closer in proximity to those prior
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`scheduled times?
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` A Yes, I did.
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` Q Okay. And so when were those meetings?
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` A I don't recall the exact date for the last
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`deposition that was scheduled, but it would have been
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`the day before that.
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` Q Okay. And about how long was that meeting?
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` A Eight hours.
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` Q And by the last deposition that was scheduled,
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`you mean the one prior to the April 11th date that you
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`were unable to make; is that right?
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` A I'm sorry?
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` Q Wasn't there -- There was a date --
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` A Oh.
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` Q -- that you were unable to come to Chicago?
`
` A Yes, that's last month, in April.
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` Q Yes.
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` A Yes.
`
` Q Okay. And so you did not have a meeting with
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`counsel prior to that deposition?
`
` A No, I did not.
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` Q But prior to the --
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` A The one that was canceled, yes, we did meet at
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`that time.
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`www.deposition.com
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`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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` Q Okay. Were there any other meetings that you
`
`had with counsel that were for the purpose of preparing
`
`you for giving a deposition in this matter?
`
` A Not for prepping me for the deposition, no.
`
` Q Okay. Were there any other meetings -- or were
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`there any other conversations or telephone calls that
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`you had with counsel to prepare for the deposition?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q When were those?
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` A I don't remember exact dates, but there was a
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`call -- a short call last week to just review the
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`schedule, the timing of the deposition, my travel, and a
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`few questions around the deposition itself.
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` Q Okay. Approximately how many phone calls did
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`you have with counsel directed to preparation for the
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`deposition?
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` A For today's deposition?
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` Q For either -- Any of the -- any of the scheduled
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`times your deposition was supposed to take place.
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` A Okay. I would guess, and it truly is a guess,
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`maybe four -- four or five conversations on the phone.
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`Some were dedicated to preparing for the deposition.
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`Others were general discussions of content, technology,
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`that type of thing.
`
` Q Okay. And you can't estimate? You have to --
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 17
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`You just have to guess?
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` A Well --
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` Q Or is it an estimate?
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` MR. SHORTSLE: Objection. Objection, asked and
`
`answered. He already answered the question.
`
` THE WITNESS: Yes, I don't -- I don't keep a
`
`calendar of calls and stuff like that.
`
` MS. ZIMMERMAN SCOBIE: Q Right.
`
` A It would be a guess.
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` Q You participated in the calls?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Okay. And so throughout the day I may ask you
`
`about things -- to estimate things, and there's a
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`difference legally between an estimate and a guess. Do
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`you understand that?
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` MR. SHORTSLE: Objection.
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` THE WITNESS: Uh-huh.
`
` MS. ZIMMERMAN SCOBIE: Q And an estimate is
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`something that you don't know for certain, but it's
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`something that you form a reasonable belief of based on
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`facts that you do know or memories that you do have. Do
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`you understand that?
`
` MR. SHORTSLE: Objection.
`
` MS. ZIMMERMAN SCOBIE: Q Okay. So I could -- I
`
`don't know your height, for example, but if you stood
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 18
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`up, I could probably make a pretty good estimate of it.
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`It wouldn't be a guess. Do you understand the
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`differentiation?
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` A Uh-huh.
`
` MR. SHORTSLE: Objection, form.
`
` MS. ZIMMERMAN SCOBIE: Q So I'm going to ask you,
`
`is the statement you made about four to five
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`conversations, is that an estimate of how many --
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q -- times you spoke to counsel?
`
` A It's an estimate.
`
` Q Okay. Thank you.
`
` So you reviewed some documents, you had some
`
`phone calls, and you had some meetings. Is there
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`anything else that you did that doesn't fall into any of
`
`those categories that you would consider to have
`
`assisted in your preparation for the deposition today?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Did you talk to any employees of Solenis?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Did you talk to anyone at International Paper?
`
` A No.
`
` Q All right. I want to go into some of your
`
`background and experience, which is extensive.
`
` So I understand that prior to your -- Well, how
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`www.deposition.com
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`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`would you describe your current role professionally?
`
` MR. SHORTSLE: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I am a consultant to the paper
`
`industry. I work for just a couple of companies. I'm
`
`not deeply involved or spent -- have a lot of time
`
`devoted to it, but I do act as a consultant at times.
`
` MS. ZIMMERMAN SCOBIE: Q Okay. And you're
`
`self-employed in that capacity?
`
` A Yes. Well --
`
` Q Go ahead.
`
` A No, go ahead.
`
` Q What were you going to say?
`
` A I was going to say, I do work for a third party,
`
`a Manpower type organization, that does all the
`
`paperwork around my activities. So, you know, I'm not
`
`self-employed. I don't have an LLC or anything like
`
`that.
`
` Q You work with an expert search company?
`
` A Basically, yes.
`
` Q Okay. What is the name of that company?
`
` A It's Gus Perdikakis Associates.
`
` Q When did you start with that group?
`
` A It would have been probably the spring into
`
`summer of 2015.
`
` Q Prior to your work on this matter?
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 20
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` A Yes.
`
` Q And is that what you did immediately following
`
`your work at International Paper?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Okay. When did you leave International Paper?
`
` A I retired March 31st of 2015.
`
` Q And you started at International Paper in 1985?
`
` A In name, yes. I worked for Hammermill Paper
`
`Company prior to that, and International Paper purchased
`
`Hammermill in '85.
`
` Q Okay. So you began working at Hammermill in
`
`1977?
`
` A Correct.
`
` Q And then in 1985 Hammermill was acquired by
`
`International Paper?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q And then you continued to work for International
`
`Paper through 2015?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Or March 31st of 2015.
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Okay. Is it accurate that the entirety of your
`
`experience in the paper industry was with that entity or
`
`did you have prior positions before you were at
`
`Hammermill?
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 21
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` A Not permanent positions. I did work summers
`
`throughout college.
`
` Q So your first permanent position was at
`
`Hammermill?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Okay. So the entirety of your experience in the
`
`paper industry is with respect to that one company?
`
` A Correct, yes.
`
` Q Dr. Dyer, do you have -- or have you been an
`
`author or coauthor on any publications relating to
`
`papermaking?
`
` A Can you clarify? Are you talking outside of
`
`International Paper or within International Paper?
`
` Q Good question. Let's start with peer-reviewed
`
`publications.
`
` A No. Well, I've participated in one conference
`
`while I was working with Hammermill back in the late
`
`'70s. And that was the only conference that I spoke at
`
`with a reference paper to go along with that.
`
` Q And do you know if that reference paper was
`
`published in a peer-reviewed journal?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Okay. You don't know or it was not?
`
` A I do not know.
`
` Q Okay. Outside of that one paper that may or may
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
`
`
`
`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 22
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`not have been published in a peer-reviewed journal, do
`
`you know if -- have you had any other articles --
`
` A No.
`
` Q -- like that?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Okay. So how about non-peer-reviewed
`
`publications external -- distributed externally of
`
`International Paper? Do you have --
`
` A No.
`
` Q -- any of those?
`
` A No.
`
` Q And then I guess with respect to publications
`
`within International Paper, the answer is you have many?
`
` A A few. Yes, that's right.
`
` Q Okay. Your work at International Paper -- Well,
`
`let me back up. Did you during your time at
`
`International Paper get involved with academic
`
`institutions on research relating to papermaking?
`
` A Not research related. I did participate in
`
`trials, pilot trials, at academic institutions during my
`
`tenure at International Paper.
`
` Q Right. And those pilot trials though were for
`
`the purpose of assisting International Paper in
`
`identifying potential new technologies to implement?
`
` A Yes.
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
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`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 23
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` Q So it wasn't -- International Paper was not
`
`doing it for academic purposes?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Okay. And the peer-reviewed -- or the
`
`conference you mentioned that resulted in a reference
`
`paper that may or may not have been published in a
`
`peer-reviewed journal, could you remind me of the
`
`timeframe of that?
`
` A It would have been late '70s.
`
` Q Okay. Outside of that conference, have you
`
`participated in other conferences on the topic of
`
`papermaking?
`
` A I have attended conferences related to
`
`papermaking, yes.
`
` Q Have you been a presenter at those conferences?
`
` A No, I have not.
`
` Q Dr. Dyer, I'm going to give you a copy of
`
`your -- what appears to be your resume. It was Exhibit
`
`1025 in connection with the IPR proceeding.
`
` (Previously marked Exhibit 1025
`
` tendered to witness.)
`
` Q And I would just like to know if you're aware of
`
`any inaccuracies on that document with respect to your
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`background and experience.
`
` A I'm not aware of any, no.
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 24
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` Q In reviewing the description there of your
`
`education and your professional experience, is that
`
`accurate information?
`
` A It appears to be accurate.
`
` Q So in the Qualification section, it says
`
`experienced Ph.D. engineer with 37-plus years employment
`
`in the paper industry. Do you see that?
`
` A Uh-huh.
`
` Q And, again --
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q -- that was all with International Paper or
`
`Hammermill, which was acquired by International Paper?
`
` A That's correct.
`
` Q And then it says, accomplished researcher in the
`
`areas of papermaking, wet end chemistry, and process
`
`development. Do you see that?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q What did you mean by accomplished researcher in
`
`those areas?
`
` A I meant that I did research in these areas and
`
`the research was accurate and worthwhile.
`
` Q And so where's that research reported? Because
`
`we talked about your papers and conferences and --
`
` A Yes. Go ahead, I'm sorry.
`
` Q So I'm just trying to understand what you mean
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`www.deposition.com
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`Solenis v. Ecolab USA, IPR2016-01281, Exhibit 2017
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`
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`CONFIDENTIAL - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`DAVID A. DYER, PH.D May 2, 2017
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`Page 25
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`by the research in those areas. Was that all in
`
`connection with your day-to-day duties at International
`
`Paper?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Okay. And then just looking down under the
`
`Professional Experience section, so it has engineering
`
`fellow from 2011 to present. This must have been
`
`prepared sometime in 2015?
`
` A Correct.
`
` Q Okay. And then the entry prior to that is
`
`senior principal scientist 2001. Was that -- What
`
`happened between 2001 and 2011?
`
` A I was a senior principal scientist between 2001
`
`and 2011. So that's a typo there. I'm sorry.
`
` Q Okay. But you were in that position for that
`
`entire time?
`
` A Yes, that's correct.
`
` Q And so, for example, underneath Engineering
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`Fellow, the bullet point recognized su
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