Trials@uspto.gov Paper 28
`Tel: 571-272-7822 Date: October 30, 2025
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`APPLE INC.
`Petitioner,
`
`V.
`
`SMITH INTERFACE TECHNOLOGIES, LLC,
`Patent Owner.
`
`IPR2024-01085
`Patent No. 10,649,580 B1
`
`Before JAMESON LEE and JEFFREY S. SMITH, Administrative Patent
`Judges.
`
`LEE, Administrative Patent Judge.
`
`ORDER
`Setting Oral Argument
`37CF.R §42.70
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`IPR2024-01085
`Patent 10,649,580 B1
`
`I. ORAL ARGUMENT
`
`A. Time and Format!
`
`Oral arguments will commence at 9:00 AM Central Time on Friday,
`November 14, 2025 at the Southwest Regional Outreach Office of the
`USPTO, in Dallas, Texas.? The Board will provide a court reporter for the
`hearing, and the reporter’s transcript will constitute the official record of the
`hearing.
`
`Petitioner will have a total of 60 minutes to present argument in this
`case and Patent Owner will have a total of 60 minutes to respond. Petitioner
`will open the hearing by presenting its case regarding the challenged claims
`for which the Board instituted trial. Thereafter, Patent Owner will respond
`to Petitioner’s argument. Petitioner may reserve rebuttal time to respond to
`arguments presented by Patent Owner. In accordance with the Consolidated
`Trial Practice Guide® (“CTPG”), issued in November 2019, Patent Owner
`may request to reserve time for a brief sur-rebuttal. See CTPG 83.
`
`The parties may request a pre-hearing conference in advance of the
`hearing. See Id. at 82. “The purpose of the pre-hearing conference is to
`afford the parties the opportunity to preview (but not argue) the issues to be
`
`discussed at the hearing, and to seek the Board’s guidance as to particular
`
`!'If a party is no longer able to appear in-person for the hearing, the party
`must contact PTABHearings@uspto.gov as soon as possible.
`
`2 Visitors to any USPTO facility where identification is required must
`present state-issued identification that is REAL ID-compliant. Alternatively,
`visitors can present another form of government-issued photo identification
`listed on the Department of Homeland Security Transportation Security
`Administration’s Acceptable IDs webpage at
`https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification.
`
`3 Available at https://www.uspto.gov/TrialPracticeGuideConsolidated.
`
`2
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`IPR2024-01085
`Patent 10,649,580 B1
`
`issues that the panel would like addressed by the parties.” Id. If either party
`desires a pre-hearing conference, the parties should jointly contact the Board
`
`at Trials@uspto.gov by DUE DATE 6 (as indicated in the Scheduling Order
`
`in this proceeding) to request a conference call for that purpose. Any request
`should include an agreed-upon set of issues for discussion and several
`proposed times for the conference. Any pre-hearing conference should take
`
`place at least three business days before the hearing date.
`
`B. Demonstratives
`
`As set forth in 37 C.F.R. § 42.70(b), demonstratives shall be served on
`opposing counsel at least seven (7) business days before the hearing date and
`filed no later than November 11, 2025, which is three business days before
`the hearing date.*
`
`Demonstratives are not a mechanism for making new arguments.
`Demonstratives also are not evidence, and will not be relied upon as
`evidence. Rather, demonstratives are visual aids to a party’s oral
`presentation regarding arguments and evidence previously presented and
`discussed in the papers. Accordingly, demonstratives shall be clearly
`marked with the words “DEMONSTRATIVE EXHIBIT — NOT
`EVIDENCE” 1n the footer. See Dell Inc. v. Acceleron, LLC, 884 F.3d 1364,
`1369 (Fed. Cir. 2018) (holding that the Board is obligated under its own
`regulations to dismiss untimely argument “raised for the first time during
`oral argument”). “[N]o new evidence may be presented at the oral
`
`argument.” CTPG 86; see also St. Jude Med., Cardiology Div., Inc. v. Bd. of
`
`4 The parties may stipulate to an alternative schedule for serving
`demonstratives, and request that the Board modify the schedule serving
`demonstratives at least seven (7) business days before the hearing date.
`
`3
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`IPR2024-01085
`Patent 10,649,580 B1
`
`Regents of the Univ. of Mich., IPR2013-00041, Paper 65, 2-3 (PTAB
`Jan. 27, 2014) (explaining that “new” evidence includes evidence already of
`record but not previously discussed in any paper of record).
`
`Furthermore, because of the strict prohibition against the presentation
`of new evidence or arguments at a hearing, it is strongly recommended that
`each demonstrative include a citation to a paper in the record, which allows
`the Board to easily ascertain whether a given demonstrative contains “new”
`argument or evidence or, instead, contains only that which is developed in
`the existing record.
`
`Due to the nature of the Board’s consideration of demonstratives and
`the opportunity afforded for the parties to reach an agreement without
`involving the Board, the Board does not anticipate that objections to
`demonstratives are likely to be sustained. Nevertheless, to the extent that a
`party objects to the propriety of any demonstrative, the parties shall meet
`and confer in good faith to resolve any objections to demonstratives prior to
`filing the objections with the Board. If such objections cannot be resolved,
`the parties may file any objections to demonstratives with the Board no later
`than 1 business day before the hearing date. The objections shall identify
`with particularity which portions of the demonstratives are subject to
`objection (and should include a copy of the objected-to portions) and include
`a one (1) sentence statement of the reason for each objection. No argument
`or further explanation is permitted. The Board will consider any objections,
`and may reserve ruling on the objections.” Any objection to demonstratives
`
`that is not timely presented will be considered waived.
`
`> If time permits, the Board may schedule a conference call with the parties
`to discuss any filed objections.
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`IPR2024-01085
`Patent 10,649,580 B1
`
`Finally, the parties are reminded that each presenter should identify
`clearly and specifically each paper (e.g., by slide or screen number for a
`demonstrative) referenced during the hearing to ensure the clarity and
`accuracy of the court reporter’s transcript and for the benefit of all
`
`participants appearing electronically.
`
`C. Presenting Counsel
`The Board generally expects lead counsel for each party to be present
`at the hearing. See CTPG 11. Any counsel of record may present the
`
`party’s argument as long as that counsel is present in person.
`
`D. Remote Attendance Requests
`
`Members of the public may request to attend in-person, listen to
`and/or view this hearing. If resources are available, the Board generally
`expects to grant such requests. If either party objects to the Board granting
`such requests, for example, because confidential information may be
`discussed, the party must notify the Board at PTABHearings@uspto.gov at
`
`least ten (10) business days prior to the hearing date.
`
`E. Audio/Visual Equipment Requests
`
`Any special requests for audio-visual equipment should be directed to
`PTABHearings@uspto.gov. A party may also indicate any special requests
`related to appearing at a video hearing, such as a request to accommodate
`deaf or hard-of-hearing individuals and blind or low- vision individuals, and
`indicate how the PTAB may accommodate the special request. Any special
`requests must be presented in a separate communication at least five (5)
`
`business days before the hearing date.
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`IPR2024-01085
`Patent 10,649,580 B1
`
`F. Legal Experience and Advancement Program
`
`Parties are encouraged to participate in the LEAP program.® Either
`party may request that a qualifying LEAP practitioner participate in the
`program and conduct at least a portion of the party’s oral argument. The
`Board will grant up to 15 minutes of additional argument time to that
`party. A party should submit the LEAP Practitioner Verification Form and
`Request for Oral Hearing Participation, at least 5 business days before the
`
`oral hearing, by email to the Board at PTABHearings@uspto.gov.
`
`II. ORDER
`Accordingly, it is
`ORDERED that oral argument for this proceeding shall commence at
`9:00 AM Central Time on Friday, November 14, 2025 at the Southwest
`Regional Outreach Office’ of the USPTO, 207 South Houston Street,
`Hearing Room 155, Dallas, Texas, and proceed in the manner set forth
`
`herein.
`
`6 Information about the LEAP program and the combined LEAP Practitioner
`Request for Oral Hearing Participation and Verification Form can be found
`at www.uspto.gov/leap.
`
`7 https://www.uspto.gov/about-us/uspto-locations/southwest.
`
`6
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`IPR2024-01085
`Patent 10,649,580 B1
`
`FOR PETITIONER:
`
`W. Karl Renner
`
`Jennifer Huang
`
`FISH & RICHARDSON P.C.
`axf-ptab@fr.com
`jhuang@fr.com
`IPR50095-0165Ip1@fr.com
`
`FOR PATENT OWNER:
`
`Eagle H. Robinson
`
`Daniel S. Leventhal
`
`Chad Wallis
`
`Vlada Wendel
`
`NORTON ROSE FULBRIGHT US LLP
`eagle.robinson@nortonrosefulbright.com
`daniel.leventhal@nortonrosefulbright.com
`chad.wallis@nortonrosefulbright.com
`vlada.wendel@nortonrosefulbright.com
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`Tel: 571-272-7822 Date: October 30, 2025
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`APPLE INC.
`Petitioner,
`
`V.
`
`SMITH INTERFACE TECHNOLOGIES, LLC,
`Patent Owner.
`
`IPR2024-01085
`Patent No. 10,649,580 B1
`
`Before JAMESON LEE and JEFFREY S. SMITH, Administrative Patent
`Judges.
`
`LEE, Administrative Patent Judge.
`
`ORDER
`Setting Oral Argument
`37CF.R §42.70
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`IPR2024-01085
`Patent 10,649,580 B1
`
`I. ORAL ARGUMENT
`
`A. Time and Format!
`
`Oral arguments will commence at 9:00 AM Central Time on Friday,
`November 14, 2025 at the Southwest Regional Outreach Office of the
`USPTO, in Dallas, Texas.? The Board will provide a court reporter for the
`hearing, and the reporter’s transcript will constitute the official record of the
`hearing.
`
`Petitioner will have a total of 60 minutes to present argument in this
`case and Patent Owner will have a total of 60 minutes to respond. Petitioner
`will open the hearing by presenting its case regarding the challenged claims
`for which the Board instituted trial. Thereafter, Patent Owner will respond
`to Petitioner’s argument. Petitioner may reserve rebuttal time to respond to
`arguments presented by Patent Owner. In accordance with the Consolidated
`Trial Practice Guide® (“CTPG”), issued in November 2019, Patent Owner
`may request to reserve time for a brief sur-rebuttal. See CTPG 83.
`
`The parties may request a pre-hearing conference in advance of the
`hearing. See Id. at 82. “The purpose of the pre-hearing conference is to
`afford the parties the opportunity to preview (but not argue) the issues to be
`
`discussed at the hearing, and to seek the Board’s guidance as to particular
`
`!'If a party is no longer able to appear in-person for the hearing, the party
`must contact PTABHearings@uspto.gov as soon as possible.
`
`2 Visitors to any USPTO facility where identification is required must
`present state-issued identification that is REAL ID-compliant. Alternatively,
`visitors can present another form of government-issued photo identification
`listed on the Department of Homeland Security Transportation Security
`Administration’s Acceptable IDs webpage at
`https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification.
`
`3 Available at https://www.uspto.gov/TrialPracticeGuideConsolidated.
`
`2
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`IPR2024-01085
`Patent 10,649,580 B1
`
`issues that the panel would like addressed by the parties.” Id. If either party
`desires a pre-hearing conference, the parties should jointly contact the Board
`
`at Trials@uspto.gov by DUE DATE 6 (as indicated in the Scheduling Order
`
`in this proceeding) to request a conference call for that purpose. Any request
`should include an agreed-upon set of issues for discussion and several
`proposed times for the conference. Any pre-hearing conference should take
`
`place at least three business days before the hearing date.
`
`B. Demonstratives
`
`As set forth in 37 C.F.R. § 42.70(b), demonstratives shall be served on
`opposing counsel at least seven (7) business days before the hearing date and
`filed no later than November 11, 2025, which is three business days before
`the hearing date.*
`
`Demonstratives are not a mechanism for making new arguments.
`Demonstratives also are not evidence, and will not be relied upon as
`evidence. Rather, demonstratives are visual aids to a party’s oral
`presentation regarding arguments and evidence previously presented and
`discussed in the papers. Accordingly, demonstratives shall be clearly
`marked with the words “DEMONSTRATIVE EXHIBIT — NOT
`EVIDENCE” 1n the footer. See Dell Inc. v. Acceleron, LLC, 884 F.3d 1364,
`1369 (Fed. Cir. 2018) (holding that the Board is obligated under its own
`regulations to dismiss untimely argument “raised for the first time during
`oral argument”). “[N]o new evidence may be presented at the oral
`
`argument.” CTPG 86; see also St. Jude Med., Cardiology Div., Inc. v. Bd. of
`
`4 The parties may stipulate to an alternative schedule for serving
`demonstratives, and request that the Board modify the schedule serving
`demonstratives at least seven (7) business days before the hearing date.
`
`3
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`IPR2024-01085
`Patent 10,649,580 B1
`
`Regents of the Univ. of Mich., IPR2013-00041, Paper 65, 2-3 (PTAB
`Jan. 27, 2014) (explaining that “new” evidence includes evidence already of
`record but not previously discussed in any paper of record).
`
`Furthermore, because of the strict prohibition against the presentation
`of new evidence or arguments at a hearing, it is strongly recommended that
`each demonstrative include a citation to a paper in the record, which allows
`the Board to easily ascertain whether a given demonstrative contains “new”
`argument or evidence or, instead, contains only that which is developed in
`the existing record.
`
`Due to the nature of the Board’s consideration of demonstratives and
`the opportunity afforded for the parties to reach an agreement without
`involving the Board, the Board does not anticipate that objections to
`demonstratives are likely to be sustained. Nevertheless, to the extent that a
`party objects to the propriety of any demonstrative, the parties shall meet
`and confer in good faith to resolve any objections to demonstratives prior to
`filing the objections with the Board. If such objections cannot be resolved,
`the parties may file any objections to demonstratives with the Board no later
`than 1 business day before the hearing date. The objections shall identify
`with particularity which portions of the demonstratives are subject to
`objection (and should include a copy of the objected-to portions) and include
`a one (1) sentence statement of the reason for each objection. No argument
`or further explanation is permitted. The Board will consider any objections,
`and may reserve ruling on the objections.” Any objection to demonstratives
`
`that is not timely presented will be considered waived.
`
`> If time permits, the Board may schedule a conference call with the parties
`to discuss any filed objections.
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`IPR2024-01085
`Patent 10,649,580 B1
`
`Finally, the parties are reminded that each presenter should identify
`clearly and specifically each paper (e.g., by slide or screen number for a
`demonstrative) referenced during the hearing to ensure the clarity and
`accuracy of the court reporter’s transcript and for the benefit of all
`
`participants appearing electronically.
`
`C. Presenting Counsel
`The Board generally expects lead counsel for each party to be present
`at the hearing. See CTPG 11. Any counsel of record may present the
`
`party’s argument as long as that counsel is present in person.
`
`D. Remote Attendance Requests
`
`Members of the public may request to attend in-person, listen to
`and/or view this hearing. If resources are available, the Board generally
`expects to grant such requests. If either party objects to the Board granting
`such requests, for example, because confidential information may be
`discussed, the party must notify the Board at PTABHearings@uspto.gov at
`
`least ten (10) business days prior to the hearing date.
`
`E. Audio/Visual Equipment Requests
`
`Any special requests for audio-visual equipment should be directed to
`PTABHearings@uspto.gov. A party may also indicate any special requests
`related to appearing at a video hearing, such as a request to accommodate
`deaf or hard-of-hearing individuals and blind or low- vision individuals, and
`indicate how the PTAB may accommodate the special request. Any special
`requests must be presented in a separate communication at least five (5)
`
`business days before the hearing date.
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`IPR2024-01085
`Patent 10,649,580 B1
`
`F. Legal Experience and Advancement Program
`
`Parties are encouraged to participate in the LEAP program.® Either
`party may request that a qualifying LEAP practitioner participate in the
`program and conduct at least a portion of the party’s oral argument. The
`Board will grant up to 15 minutes of additional argument time to that
`party. A party should submit the LEAP Practitioner Verification Form and
`Request for Oral Hearing Participation, at least 5 business days before the
`
`oral hearing, by email to the Board at PTABHearings@uspto.gov.
`
`II. ORDER
`Accordingly, it is
`ORDERED that oral argument for this proceeding shall commence at
`9:00 AM Central Time on Friday, November 14, 2025 at the Southwest
`Regional Outreach Office’ of the USPTO, 207 South Houston Street,
`Hearing Room 155, Dallas, Texas, and proceed in the manner set forth
`
`herein.
`
`6 Information about the LEAP program and the combined LEAP Practitioner
`Request for Oral Hearing Participation and Verification Form can be found
`at www.uspto.gov/leap.
`
`7 https://www.uspto.gov/about-us/uspto-locations/southwest.
`
`6
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`IPR2024-01085
`Patent 10,649,580 B1
`
`FOR PETITIONER:
`
`W. Karl Renner
`
`Jennifer Huang
`
`FISH & RICHARDSON P.C.
`axf-ptab@fr.com
`jhuang@fr.com
`IPR50095-0165Ip1@fr.com
`
`FOR PATENT OWNER:
`
`Eagle H. Robinson
`
`Daniel S. Leventhal
`
`Chad Wallis
`
`Vlada Wendel
`
`NORTON ROSE FULBRIGHT US LLP
`eagle.robinson@nortonrosefulbright.com
`daniel.leventhal@nortonrosefulbright.com
`chad.wallis@nortonrosefulbright.com
`vlada.wendel@nortonrosefulbright.com
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
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