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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 221-16 Filed 10/05/23 Page 2 of 20 PageID #: 17131
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`3/16/2023
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Highly Confidential - Under the Protective Order
`
`Eric Engelmann, Vol I
`
`Page 1
`
` THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` FOR THE DISTRICT OF DELAWARE
`_________________________________________
`WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC., )
` Plaintiff/Counterclaim-Defendant,) Case Number C.A.
`v. ) No. 17-770-JDW
`CATERPILLAR INC., )
` Defendant/Counterclaim-Plaintiff.)
`_________________________________________)
`
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - UNDER THE PROTECTIVE ORDER
`
` Video Deposition of
` ERIC ENGELMANN, Volume I of II
` in his personal capacity
` and as a representative of CATERPILLAR, INC.
` Thursday, March 16, 2023
` 9:10 a.m.
`
`Court Stenographer:
`Patrick Mahon, RMR, CRR
`
`______________________________________________________
` DIGITAL EVIDENCE GROUP
` 1730 M Street, NW, Suite 812
` Washington, D.C. 20036
` (202) 232-0646
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
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`
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 221-16 Filed 10/05/23 Page 3 of 20 PageID #: 17132
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`3/16/2023
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Highly Confidential - Under the Protective Order
`
`Eric Engelmann, Vol I
`
`Page 10
`
` A. Good morning.
` Q. Could you state your name for the
` record.
` A. My name is Eric Engelmann.
` Q. And, Mr. Engelmann, where are you
` presently employed?
` A. I'm presently employed at
` Caterpillar.
` Q. And what is your title?
` A. I am currently an engineering manager
` at Caterpillar.
` Q. Now, Mr. Engelmann, I've had the
` pleasure of taking your deposition a few times
` over the last several years. I think the last
` time I took your deposition, about a year ago.
` Has your position changed since about a
` year ago?
` A. My position has not changed in the
` last year.
` Q. Okay. And do you recall being
` deposed in a ITC matter, what's been referred to
` as the 1067 investigation between Caterpillar and
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 221-16 Filed 10/05/23 Page 4 of 20 PageID #: 17133
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Highly Confidential - Under the Protective Order
`
`Eric Engelmann, Vol I
`
`Page 16
`
` A. No.
` Q. And I imagine -- you don't have to
` tell me what documents you reviewed, but I assume
` you reviewed some documents as well?
` A. I did review some documents.
` Q. And, Mr. Engelmann, I'm going to do
` my best to not rehash things we've covered in the
` past in prior testimony, but I do want to get a
` little bit more background from you on when you
` started on the PM600 project.
` Approximately what year did you first
` start working on what ultimately became the PM600?
` A. Can you please clarify? Are you
` speaking about me personally as opposed to
` Caterpillar?
` Q. Yeah, I'm asking about you
` personally.
` A. I became the engineering manager for
` the cold planer product family in October of 2013.
` Q. And prior to becoming an engineering
` manager in 2013, Dario Sansone was the engineering
` manager for that project?
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Highly Confidential - Under the Protective Order
`
`Eric Engelmann, Vol I
`
`Page 24
`
` being sold?
` A. We have built two pilot machines of a
` 02C vintage.
` Q. Okay. And when you say a pilot
` machine, what does a pilot machine mean at
` Caterpillar?
` A. A pilot machine is a machine that is
` built at a phase of the NPI, the new product
` introduction process, that we use to validate and
` verify changes.
` Q. Would you consider a pilot to be,
` like, a prototype?
` A. A pilot is technically different than
` a prototype.
` Q. Okay. How so?
` A. A pilot is intended to be
` production-intent and is meant to verify the
` production process as well as the product.
` Q. Okay. Is there a time frame for
` completing the validation process on the 02C
` build?
` A. Our current target, from what I
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Highly Confidential - Under the Protective Order
`
`Eric Engelmann, Vol I
`
`Page 25
` recall, is to complete validation this year, in
` 2023, and targeting a gateway 6 production launch
` date in first quarter or second quarter of 2024.
` Q. So let's go back to the 01A build.
` There are -- I'm going to do this -- I'll just
` give you a heads-up. I'm going to do this for
` each of these builds, but I'm going to ask you
` about various features or functions that have been
` on Caterpillar machines and just want to confirm
` my understanding.
` So you're familiar with a feature called
` "ride control"; correct?
` A. I am familiar with that term.
` Q. Okay. And ride control, that's an
` internal term and -- or, I'm sorry, that's a
` Caterpillar term for a particular feature that was
` on the 01A build for the PM600; correct?
` A. Can you repeat the question?
` Q. Sure. Yeah.
` The term "ride control" is a name
` Caterpillar gave to a feature that was present on
` the 01A build for the PM600?
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Highly Confidential - Under the Protective Order
`
`Eric Engelmann, Vol I
`
`Page 26
`
` A. For the PM600, yes.
` Q. Okay. Are you familiar with the term
` "hot swap"?
` A. I am familiar with the term
` "hot swap."
` Q. Okay. And "hot swap" refers to
` a -- I'm sorry. Strike that.
` Was hot swap a feature that was present on
` the 01A build for the PM600?
` A. Yes, the hot swap feature was present
` on the 01A build of the 600 series.
` Q. Okay. The 01A build had a feature
` that was referred to as the -- I believe it was
` the automatic rotor disengagement feature? Do I
` have that correct?
` A. I believe you're referring to what we
` would call reverse rotor shutoff.
` Q. Reverse rotor shutoff. We'll use
` that term.
` And there have been, from Caterpillar's
` perspective, two different versions of that
` feature; is that fair?
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Highly Confidential - Under the Protective Order
`
`Eric Engelmann, Vol I
`
`Page 34
`
` Q. In the 02B build, was the ride
` control feature removed?
` A. The 02B build has no ride control.
` Q. Okay. For the 02B build, did it
` have -- I'm sorry. Strike that.
` For the 02B build of the PM600, did it
` have a reverse rotor shutoff feature?
` A. The 02B builds have a reverse rotor
` shutoff feature.
` Q. And when the 02B build went into
` production, was it using Version 1 or Version 2 of
` the reverse rotor shutoff feature?
` A. From my recollection, the first
` machines built of the 02B vintage had Version 1
` reverse rotor shutoff.
` Q. Okay. The Version 2 of the reverse
` rotor shutoff was introduced at some point during
` production of the 02B build of the PM600?
` A. Yes, that's correct.
` Q. Sticking with the... At some point,
` Caterpillar adopted what we've been referring to
` as the Version 2 of the reverse rotor shutoff
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Highly Confidential - Under the Protective Order
`
`Eric Engelmann, Vol I
`
`Page 35
`
` feature.
` Do you recall approximately when that
` feature was released, sorry, Version 2 of that
` feature was released?
` A. Yeah, I'm trying to recall. I recall
` it being about a year ago, maybe a little over one
` year ago.
` Q. And that feature -- strike that.
` Version 2 of the reverse rotor shutoff
` feature, was that a feature that was also applied
` to PM600 machines that had already been sold to
` customers?
` A. There was a service letter from our
` company that went out to the field that covered
` multiple items, and a software update was part of
` that service letter.
` Q. And the change from Version 1 to
` Version 2 of the reverse rotor shutoff feature was
` accomplished through a software update; correct?
` A. That version changed with that
` software update that was part of the service
` letter.
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`Highly Confidential - Under the Protective Order
`
`Eric Engelmann, Vol I
`
`Page 38
`
` the 02B build?
` A. Yes, it is.
` Q. Okay. And I should ask that same
` question.
` Is the hot swap feature that's on the 02B
` build the same hot swap feature that was on the
` 02A build?
` A. Yes, it is.
` Q. And the same hot swap feature that
` was on the 01A build?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. All right. I'm going to
` switch to the PM300 now.
` A. Okay.
` Q. And the PM300 had a 01A build, an 02A
` build, and an 02B build; correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Is there a 02C build in
` progress for the PM300?
` A. There were also two pilot machines
` built of the 02C build.
` Q. Starting with the 01A build of the
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`Highly Confidential - Under the Protective Order
`
`Eric Engelmann, Vol I
`
`Page 41
` PM300: Did build -- sorry, build 02B of the
` PM300, did it have a -- or does it have a reverse
` rotor shutoff feature?
` A. It does.
` Q. Which version of the reverse rotor
` shutoff feature does it have?
` A. I'm pretty certain production started
` with Version 1.
` Q. Okay. At some point, did production
` of the 02B build -- strike that.
` At some point during the production of the
` 02B build for the PM300, did Caterpillar change
` the reverse rotor shutoff feature from Version 1
` to Version 2 for that machine?
` A. Yes, that's my understanding.
` Q. Okay. And was that in the same time
` frame as the change for the reverse rotor shutoff
` feature on the PM600?
` A. I recall it being around the same
` time.
` Q. Okay. And was there a service letter
` issued for the PM300 that included a change to the
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`Highly Confidential - Under the Protective Order
`
`Eric Engelmann, Vol I
`
`Page 42
`
` reverse rotor shutoff feature?
` A. I do not believe there was a service
` letter that applied to the 300 series.
` Q. So any PM300s that Caterpillar sold
` with the Version 1 of the reverse rotor shutoff
` feature would still have Version 1 on those
` machines?
` A. Those machines will have Version 1
` until a customer or a dealer does a routine
` software upgrade to their machines, and at that
` point, they will switch over.
` Q. So the change in the software
` relating to the reverse rotor shutoff feature
` would be part of a routine software upgrade that a
` dealer may do to a machine?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. If you wanted to know how many
` PM300s had that routine software upgrade, would
` there be a way to determine that?
` A. There might be a way to determine
` that through VisionLink or Product Link and
` looking at the software part number that's on each
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`Highly Confidential - Under the Protective Order
`
`Eric Engelmann, Vol I
`
`Page 146
` Q. Are any of those design proposals
` present on the pilot machines that we talked about
` earlier for the PM300 or the PM600?
` A. No.
` Q. Earlier today, we were discussing the
` reverse rotor shutoff feature on Caterpillar's
` PM300 and PM600 machines.
` A. Correct.
` Q. So starting with Version 1 of that
` feature, that feature would be enabled when the
` machine was traveling in reverse and the rotor was
` running and the machine was raised off the ground;
` is that correct?
` A. I would say the feature was always
` enabled and there was logic applied. Based on the
` logic and conditions being met, that feature would
` activate.
` Q. Okay. Fair.
` So you say it was an automatic feature,
` that logic was always operating on the machine
` when that software with Version 1 was installed?
` A. That's my understanding, that the
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`Highly Confidential - Under the Protective Order
`
`Eric Engelmann, Vol I
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`Page 147
`
` logic is present at all times.
` Q. It wasn't a feature that a customer
` could turn off?
` A. No.
` Q. Okay. And that was true of the PM300
` and the PM600 and PM800; correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And for Version 1, what were the
` conditions in which the reverse rotor shutoff
` feature would cause the rotor to disengage?
` A. The conditions that would cause the
` rotor to disengage were if the rotor was on, that
` was one of the conditions, if the machine was
` propelling in the reverse direction, and then it
` was looking if the side plates, if either side
` plate or the moldboard were elevated above some
` threshold point.
` Q. Okay. And that logic was true for
` the PM300, 600, and 800; correct?
` A. The high-level logic was consistent.
` There was a subtle difference between the 300 and
` the 600 and 800 in how the moldboard height was
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Highly Confidential - Under the Protective Order
`
`Eric Engelmann, Vol I
`
`Page 149
`
` BY MR. AINSWORTH:
` Q. We'll take a Caterpillar customer
` that owns a 300 machine. Would it be a common
` scenario for an operator to operate the PM300 in
` reverse with the rotor still running?
` A. It's a common practice of operators
` to back up with the rotor running, especially on
` the smaller machines where there's a lot of
` maneuvering on the job and multiple passes.
` Q. Okay. Okay. I appreciate that.
` So the smaller machines, like a PM300,
` because they're designed for more sort of, I
` guess, maneuverability sort of operations would be
` more common to operate backwards than, say, the
` larger machines?
` A. They're all maneuvered on the job for
` multiple passes. The exact amount comparatively
` is hard to say.
` Q. I guess it kind of makes sense. So
` the bigger machine, you'll probably just want to
` keep going back and forth, or forward, whereas,
` the smaller machines, doing more cutting and
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`Highly Confidential - Under the Protective Order
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`Eric Engelmann, Vol I
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`Page 236
`
` STATE OF MINNESOTA)
` : ss CERTIFICATE
` COUNTY OF HENNEPIN)
`
` I, Patrick J. Mahon, Registered Merit
` Reporter, a Notary Public in and for the County of
` Hennepin, State of Minnesota, hereby certify that
` I reported the deposition, and that the witness
` was by me first duly sworn to tell the whole
` truth;
` That the testimony was transcribed under
` my direction and is a true record of the testimony
` of the witness;
` That the cost of the original has been
` charged to the party who noticed the deposition,
` and that all parties who ordered copies have been
` charged at the same rate for such copies;
` That I am not a relative or employee or
` attorney or counsel of any of the parties or a
` relative or employee of such attorney or counsel;
` That I am not financially interested in
` the action and have no contract with the parties,
` attorneys, or persons with an interest in the
` action that affects or has a substantial tendency
` to affect my impartiality;
` That the right to read and sign the
` deposition by the witness was reserved;
`
` WITNESS MY HAND AND SEAL this 26th day of
` March 2023.
`
` ________________________________
` Patrick J. Mahon
` Registered Merit Reporter
` Certified Realtime Reporter
`
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`Eric Engelmann Vol ll
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`3/17/2023
`Highly Confidential - Outside Attorneys' Eyes Only - Under the Protective Order
`
`240
`
` IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` FOR THE DISTRICT OF DELAWARE
`__________________________________________
`WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC., )
` Plaintiff/Counterclaim-Defendant, )
`v. ) Case Number C.A.
`CATERPILLAR INC., ) No. 17-770-JDW
` Defendant/Counterclaim-Plaintiff. )
`__________________________________________)
`
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL, OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
` UNDER THE PROTECTIVE ORDER
`
` Video Deposition of
` ERIC ENGELMANN, Volume II of II
` in his personal capacity
` and as a representative of CATERPILLAR, INC.
` Friday, March 17, 2023
` 9:09 a.m.
`
`Court Stenographer:
`Patrick Mahon, RMR, CRR
`______________________________________________________
` DIGITAL EVIDENCE GROUP
` 1730 M Street, NW, Suite 812
` Washington, D.C. 20036
` (202) 232-0646
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com Digital Evidence Gorup C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`
`
`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 221-16 Filed 10/05/23 Page 18 of 20 PageID #: 17147
`
`Eric Engelmann Vol ll
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`3/17/2023
`Highly Confidential - Outside Attorneys' Eyes Only - Under the Protective Order
`
`270
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` A. Correct.
` Q. And in that bullet point, it refers
`to a particular Wirtgen patent, what is referred
`to as the '641 patent. Do you see that?
` A. I see reference to "U.S. Patent No.
`7,530,641."
` Q. And can we refer to that as the '641
`patent?
` A. Sure.
` Q. You're familiar with the '641 patent?
` A. The number is familiar to me.
` Q. And you understand, it's the patent
`that was asserted against Caterpillar's
`automatic -- or as you call it, sorry, reverse
`rotor disengagement feature?
` A. That would be my understanding.
` Q. Okay. So one of the things that
`Wirtgen asked for in June of 2017 was for
`Caterpillar to eliminate the reverse rotor
`disengagement feature from its machines; correct?
` A. That was request number 3 listed in
`this document.
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`202-232-0646
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 221-16 Filed 10/05/23 Page 19 of 20 PageID #: 17148
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
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` Q. You were building the 02A in
`Little Rock; correct?
` A. That's -- yes.
` Q. Yeah.
` And the 02A build in Little Rock that was
`being built by Caterpillar, that began in 2019;
`correct?
` A. That sounds correct.
` Q. Okay. And at least initially, those
`machines still had the ride control feature;
`correct?
` A. That's consistent with my knowledge.
` Q. Okay. And those machines also had
`Version 1 of the reverse rotor shutoff feature;
`correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And those machines still had
`position-sensing cylinders in the lifting columns;
`correct?
` A. The 02A machines did, yes.
` Q. So after the ALJ issued its decision
`in October of 2018, Caterpillar began
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`202-232-0646
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 221-16 Filed 10/05/23 Page 20 of 20 PageID #: 17149
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`3/17/2023
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`STATE OF MINNESOTA)
` : ss CERTIFICATE
`COUNTY OF HENNEPIN)
`
` I, Patrick J. Mahon, Registered Merit
`Reporter, a Notary Public in and for the County of
`Hennepin, State of Minnesota, hereby certify that
`I reported the deposition, and that the witness
`was by me first duly sworn to tell the whole
`truth;
` That the testimony was transcribed under
`my direction and is a true record of the testimony
`of the witness;
` That the cost of the original has been
`charged to the party who noticed the deposition,
`and that all parties who ordered copies have been
`charged at the same rate for such copies;
` That I am not a relative or employee or
`attorney or counsel of any of the parties or a
`relative or employee of such attorney or counsel;
` That I am not financially interested in
`the action and have no contract with the parties,
`attorneys, or persons with an interest in the
`action that affects or has a substantial tendency
`to affect my impartiality;
` That the right to read and sign the
`deposition by the witness was reserved;
`
` WITNESS MY HAND AND SEAL this 26th day of
`March 2023.
`
` ________________________________
` Patrick J. Mahon
` Registered Merit Reporter
` Certified Realtime Reporter
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com Digital Evidence Gorup C'rt 2023
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`202-232-0646
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`