Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 229-21 Filed 10/05/23 Page 1 of 29 PageID #: 23653
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 229-21 Filed 10/05/23 Page 2 of 29 PageID #: 23654
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`8/24/2023
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
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`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
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` IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` FOR THE DISTRICT OF DELAWARE
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`Page 1
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`---------------------------------x
`WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC., :
` Plaintiff/Counterclaim-Deft. :
` V. : C.A. No.
`CATERPILLAR, INC., : 17-770-JDW-MPT
` Defendant/Counterclaim-Plf. :
`---------------------------------x
`
` VIDEO DEPOSITION OF
` DURHAM GILES, PH.D.
` Thursday, August 24, 2023
` 9:26 a.m. CT
`
`Reported by: Elisabeth A. Lorenz: RMR, CRR
`
`______________________________________________________
` DIGITAL EVIDENCE GROUP
` 1730 M Street, NW, Suite 812
` Washington, D.C. 20036
` (202) 232-0646
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 229-21 Filed 10/05/23 Page 3 of 29 PageID #: 23655
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
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`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
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`Page 2
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` VIDEO DEPOSITION of DURHAM GILES,
`PH.D.,
`conducted at Patterson Intellectual Property Law,
`1600 Division Street, Suite 500, Nashville,
`Tennessee:
`
` Pursuant to notice, before Elisabeth A.
`Lorenz, Registered Merit Reporter and Certified
`Realtime Reporter.
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
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`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
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`Page 3
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF/COUNTERCLAIM DEFENDANT:
` SETH OGEN
` NATHAN NORTH
` Patterson Intellectual Property Law
` 1600 Division Street
` Nashville, Tennessee 37203
` 615.242.2400
` sro@iplawgroup.com
` nin@plawgroup.com
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT/COUNTERCLAIM PLAINTIFF:
` CHRISTOPHER MAYS
` Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
` 650 Page Mill Road
` Palo Alto, California 94304
` cmays@wsgr.com
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
` Todd Davis, Videographer
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
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`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
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`Page 4
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` C O N T E N T S
` INDEX OF EXAMINATIONS
` Page
`WITNESS: DURHAM GILES, PH.D.
`Examination By Mr. Mays ...........................7
`Examination By Mr. Ogden ........................228
`Examination By Mr. Mays .........................259
`Examination By Mr. Ogden ........................262
`Examination By Mr. Mays .........................263
`
` MARKED EXHIBITS
`Exhibit Description Page
`263 Opening Report ..........................11
`264 Rebuttal Expert Report ..................45
`266 IPR Document ............................72
`267 Nozzle Chart ............................82
`268 TeeJet Universal Application Rate .......87
` Chart
`269 Photograph of Machine SN 23200455 .......90
`270 Photograph of Machine SN 23200455 .......90
`271 Photograph of Giles and Valerdi .........90
`272 Photograph of Machine SN 23200414 .......90
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`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
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`Page 45
`the enclosed volume that contains the water that's
`to be supplied to the pump.
`Q Does a water reservoir have to be formed
`from a single piece of metal?
`A Does a reservoir have to be formed from a
`single piece of metal? Not necessarily, no.
`Q Could a water reservoir be formed from being
`welded?
`A A water reservoir can be formed by a welded
`structure, yes.
`Q Can something be mounted by a welding?
`A Welding is a way to mount, yes.
`Q Dr. Giles, let's turn to the first -- well,
`I'll call it the second of your reports, your
`rebuttal expert report of Dr. Durham K. Giles that
`we premarked as Exhibit 264.
` (Marked Exhibit 264.)
`BY MR. MAYS:
`Q Dr. Giles, does Exhibit 264 appear to you to
`be your complete rebuttal expert report?
`A It appears to be, yes. It's many pages, so
`I'm not certain that every page is there, but it
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
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`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
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`Page 46
`
`does appear to be the report.
`Q And, Dr. Giles, does your rebuttal report
`contain your complete response to the opinions in
`Dr. Sorini's opening report?
`A I believe so, yes. There was one report
`that had an errata that was filed later.
`Q Understood with the errata.
`A Yeah.
`Q Is there anything -- is there anything --
`let me back up.
` You reviewed the reply expert report of
`Dr. Sorini, correct?
`A I did.
`Q Having reviewed the reply expert report of
`Dr. Sorini, are there any changes or amendments you
`would make to the opinions in your rebuttal expert
`report?
`A Not at this time, no.
`Q Now, Dr. Giles, just flipping through the
`table of contents, I don't see any reference here to
`the concept of the objective indicia of
`nonobviousness.
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
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`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
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`Page 47
` Is it correct that in your rebuttal report,
`you offered no opinions on objective indicia of
`nonobviousness?
`A Ask me that again.
`Q Sure.
`A Yeah.
`Q Let me ask it a little bit more
`straightforward.
`A Yeah.
`Q Would you agree with me that in your
`rebuttal expert report you did not offer any
`opinions regarding the objective indicia of
`nonobviousness for the '618 patent?
`A That's my recollection, yes.
`Q Let's start with the section about your
`qualifications, Dr. Giles, which I believe --
`starting at page 3 of your rebuttal report.
` My first question for you is, Dr. Giles, do
`you speak German?
`A I do not speak German, no.
`Q You understand that the source code for the
`accused products in this case was written in German?
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
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`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
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`Page 48
`
`A That's my understanding, yes.
`Q In paragraph 10 of your rebuttal report, you
`reference getting a Bachelor of Science degree in
`agricultural engineering from the University of
`Georgia.
` What was the coursework that you took for
`your agricultural engineering degree?
`A Do you mean -- coursework in what -- it's an
`accredited engineering program, so it's a standard
`engineering background.
` Should I list the courses or --
`Q Well, I guess my question at more of a high
`level is, what is the focus of an agricultural
`engineering degree from the University of Georgia?
`A The focus of agricultural engineering
`degrees is an application of mechanical, electrical,
`and in some cases elements of civil engineering for
`the specific generalized industry of agriculture.
` And specific classes you would take would be
`machine design, control systems and theory,
`structure, strength of materials, fluid mechanics,
`heat transfer, thermodynamics, power transmission,
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
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`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
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`Page 121
`section, what appears to be substantially upright on
`the left, that portion of the frame, there's a void
`essentially inside that square part or rectangular
`opening at the top, and there's a void inside there.
`Q And when you say the rectangular part,
`you're referring to this rectangular part that's
`two-thirds of the way up from the photograph?
`A Yeah. It appears to be like a flange
`connection.
`Q Now, just to the right of that rectangular
`void, I see what appears to be weld marks welding
`one piece of metal with a rectangular void to
`another piece of metal.
` Do you see that?
`A I do.
`Q So you would agree with me that this water
`reservoir that you've described as being here,
`that's welded to the frame, correct?
`A No, I do not agree with that statement.
`Q Why not?
`A The way you described it, you said there's a
`reservoir welded to the frame. In fact, the frame
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`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
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`Page 122
`is welded and created, and the reservoir is integral
`to that frame.
`Q What do you mean by integral to the frame?
`A It's not a separate component that can be
`removed and replaced.
`Q The portion of the reservoir that you say is
`integral to the frame, that portion has been welded
`to the other components of the frame, correct?
`A The frame has been welded together in a
`manner that results in a reservoir being created.
`Q Let's turn to page 103 of your rebuttal
`report -- actually, page 104.
` On page 104, you have what appears to be a
`couple CAD schematics. On the previous page, you
`say, The unitized construction is further shown by
`the images from the CAD model of the frame below.
` Do you see that?
`A I do.
`Q And how did you -- or let me back up.
` Did you create the images that we see on
`page 104 of your rebuttal report?
`A These images -- the answer to your question
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
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`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
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`Page 123
`
`is, no, these images were supplied to me.
`Q Your understanding is that these images were
`created from CAD schematics, correct?
`A Yes. I have visualized the CAD program
`rotating and displaying these views.
`Q When did you first have access to those --
`CAD program?
`A I don't have direct access to the CAD
`program. These images were supplied to me after the
`site visit.
`Q So you've never personally had access to the
`CAD program that was used to generate these images?
`A I have not accessed the CAD program
`directly. There may have been access provided to me
`that I didn't use, but I haven't directly accessed
`it.
`Q What steps did you take to confirm that
`these CAD schematics accurately depict the
`construction of a W 210 Fi machine?
`A My -- I did not take independent steps, but
`I asked for -- suggested that a CAD depiction would
`be very useful in communicating the design and
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`Page 124
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`integration of the reservoir and the frame.
`Q And did you take any steps to perform -- to
`confirm that these images depicted W 210 Fi as
`opposed to a W 210 i machine?
`A I did not confirm independently. The short
`answer is no; the longer answer is I didn't confirm
`independently that these specific images were from a
`specific machine model.
`Q And when you say the -- when you say that
`the images on page 104 of your rebuttal report were
`supplied to you, who supplied them to you?
`A Those came from counsel.
`Q Are you able to state whether the CAD
`program that was used to generate these images
`identifies any part as the frame?
`A Okay. Can you please ask me that again?
`Q Yeah.
` So in the CAD program that was used to
`generate these diagrams, do you know if there is any
`part specifically labeled frame?
`A In the CAD program, the parts, as I recall,
`were not labeled in the rotational view and the
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
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`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
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`Page 249
`definition of efficient water management. But the
`performance tracker system does adjust the number of
`spray bar sections that are turned on relative to
`the milling width.
`Q What does the '618 patent say about
`adjusting spray sections of a spray bar for the
`water spray width?
`A The '618 patent, as I recall, is silent on
`adjusting for widths -- no, there are two spray
`banks there. The spray bank is controlled by a
`single valve.
`Q So on page 31, it says, Four separate
`electrically switchable segments of the water spray
`bar allow the optimum quantity of water to be added.
` Do you see that?
`A I do.
`Q And what does the '618 patent say about four
`separate electrically switchable segments?
`A I believe it's silent as to individually
`switchable segments of a spray bar.
`Q You can put that one down.
` I'd like to go back to your opening report,
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`Page 250
`and if we take a look -- let me know when you've got
`it. We're going to go to page 2.
`A I'm on page 2.
`Q And then do you remember when Mr. Mays was
`asking you questions with respect to your Grounds 2
`and 5 where it lists Anderton/Orr?
`A Yes.
`Q Let's take a look at -- just make sure this
`is the right spot -- paragraph 58 of your opening
`report on page 37.
`A Yes.
`Q Could you read paragraph 58 into the record,
`the first sentence?
`A U.S. Patent Publication 2011/0160920 A1 to
`Orr, et al., which published in June 2011 with Bates
`Number WA-0032800, Orr, incorporates by reference
`the teachings of Anderton, which describes two
`examples of valve configurations for activating
`spray heads.
`Q What is your understanding of an
`incorporation by reference?
`A Literally that, that by referencing -- by
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`Page 251
`referencing those teachings, that we're including
`that in that paragraph.
`Q Now, do you remember earlier when Mr. Mays
`was asking you some questions regarding the water
`tank of the accused Wirtgen machines?
`A I do, in general, yes.
`Q And what was your opinion regarding whether
`the accused Wirtgen machines included a water
`reservoir mounted on the frame?
`A My opinion is the accused machines have a
`water reservoir that is integrally part of the
`frame.
`Q And what was your basis for your opinion
`that the accused Wirtgen machines have a water
`reservoir that is integrally part of the frame?
`A It's not denoted anywhere, either visually
`in the inspection or in the parts manual documents,
`Wirtgen has a separate component that can be
`purchased or with a separate part number or a
`call-out.
`Q Anything else?
`A And it is visually a void in the frame. If
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`Page 252
`you attempt to remove that, you weaken the frame.
`Q And you just mentioned the parts manual.
` MR. OGDEN: Will you hand me that? How
`many copies are there?
` MR. NORTH: There's two.
` MR. OGDEN: That's one?
` (Marked Exhibit 284.)
`BY MR. OGDEN:
`Q So can you confirm what Exhibit 284 is?
` MR. MAYS: Objection, outside the scope
`of direct.
` THE WITNESS: What this appears to be
`is a spare parts manual for the W 210 Fi and is --
`yes, it's that.
`BY MR. OGDEN:
`Q And how did the parts manual for the Wirtgen
`210 Fi inform your opinion that the accused Wirtgen
`machines do not include a water reservoir mounted on
`the frame?
` MR. MAYS: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: In looking at the
`schematic, basically the exploded view, the parts
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`Page 253
`view of the machine for the fluid system and the
`parts listing by parts numbers and call-outs, there
`was no water tank as a separate item.
`BY MR. OGDEN:
`Q Can you tell the jury what portions of the
`parts manual you're referencing that helped inform
`that opinion?
` MR. MAYS: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: I can find it. The copy
`that I had was a searchable PDF, which greatly
`accelerated the process.
`BY MR. OGDEN:
`Q Is there one on this computer?
`A Let's see. That may be helpful.
`Q There may or may not be. I'm not sure. The
`password is that down there.
`A All I see are reports here, so I don't think
`we have -- oh, well, yes, we do, the very last item.
`I'm still looking. I'm getting close.
` Yeah, we look on -- for example, it's
`0027222, which I believe is page 671 of the 800-page
`document.
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`Page 254
`Q The one that ends in Bates Number 27222?
`A Yes.
`Q Okay.
`A So starting there, we see the spare parts
`drawing as water tank. And you see the individual
`components there are only the connection parts.
` If you go to the following page, which would
`be 223, and we look at all the call-outs for the
`reference numbers and part numbers, there's no tank
`there. It's not an item that you can replace or
`acquire as an individual and distinct unit.
`Q Okay.
`A And there's no -- in the 222 drawing,
`there's no, you know, specific call-out for water
`tank.
`Q And then can you take a look at the page
`ending in 230.
`A 230? Yeah. Stand by.
` MR. MAYS: I'll object to the line of
`questioning as outside the scope of his rebuttal
`report.
` THE WITNESS: Yes, I'm on 230.
`
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 229-21 Filed 10/05/23 Page 20 of 29 PageID #: 23672
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`8/24/2023
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`
`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
`
`Page 255
`
`BY MR. OGDEN:
`Q And how does that image relate to the image
`that you just pointed the jury to?
` MR. MAYS: Same objection, outside the
`scope of his report.
` THE WITNESS: It is a different view
`from a different perspective of the machine. This
`is entitled Water Pump Drive, but it shows simply
`the connections, the -- primarily, the hydraulic
`connections to the water pump. And, again, there's
`no tank called out or denoted explicitly.
`BY MR. OGDEN:
`Q And do you remember when -- if we take a
`look back at your initial -- sorry, your rebuttal
`report, and let's take a look at page --
`A Is that Exhibit 265? 265?
`Q No, your opening.
`A Oh, opening?
`Q Yeah.
`A Yeah, we're back on that, 263, yes.
`Q You have to give me a second now. Oh, okay.
` And if you go to, for example, page 101.
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
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`202-232-0646
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 229-21 Filed 10/05/23 Page 21 of 29 PageID #: 23673
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`8/24/2023
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`
`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
`
`Page 256
`
`A Yes, I'm there.
`Q And do you remember when Mr. Mays was asking
`you questions about this image?
`A Paragraph 101?
`Q Sorry, page 101, paragraph 137.
` MR. MAYS: Of his opening report?
` MR. OGDEN: I'm sorry, rebuttal.
`Rebuttal report. I told you the wrong one. I'm
`getting tired.
` THE WITNESS: Stand by.
`BY MR. OGDEN:
`Q That's it.
`A We're getting there.
`Q You're almost there.
`A Page 101?
`Q Page 101. There's a figure at the end of
`paragraph 137.
`A Page 101, yes.
`Q And do you remember when Mr. Mays asked you
`questions about that picture?
`A Generally, I do.
`Q And do you remember referencing that kind of
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`202-232-0646
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 229-21 Filed 10/05/23 Page 22 of 29 PageID #: 23674
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`8/24/2023
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`
`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
`
`Page 257
`
`rectangular cutout there?
`A Yes.
`Q And how does that relate to what you just
`showed us in the spare parts manual?
` MR. MAYS: Objection, outside the
`scope.
` THE WITNESS: For example, in looking
`at a document that ends in 230, as we look at this,
`we are effectively looking at -- we're looking from
`the top left corner of the computer into this
`figure.
`BY MR. OGDEN:
`Q Okay.
`A You see the weldment on the left side, and
`then you'll see -- there's a hydraulic line 8 and a
`dash line. And where that dash line intersects the
`frame -- I'm simply using the dash line as a visual
`reference, not implying any mechanical connection.
` Where that dash line comes into the frame,
`that is the square opening that you see on the
`photograph.
`Q And what, if anything, led you to review the
`
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
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`202-232-0646
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 229-21 Filed 10/05/23 Page 23 of 29 PageID #: 23675
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`8/24/2023
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`
`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
`
`Page 258
`spare parts manual with respect to this claim
`element?
`A What led me to that was a desire to
`understand aspects of the machine that were
`difficult, if not impossible, to see in the visual
`inspection.
`Q Okay.
`A I wasn't able to saw the machine in half
`obviously in the visual inspection. And the ability
`to look at this and to see how other components
`would be associated with the reservoir, for example,
`the pressure sensor for the tank level, other
`aspects of the components that are associated with
`the tank.
`Q Well, why were you looking at the pressure
`sensor for the tank level?
` MR. MAYS: Objection, outside the
`scope.
` THE WITNESS: That was of interest in
`statements made by Dr. Sorini about he noted a
`change in the level indication when he added water.
`And it was just for me to confirm in my thinking how
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`202-232-0646
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 229-21 Filed 10/05/23 Page 24 of 29 PageID #: 23676
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
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`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
`
`Page 259
`that -- potentially how that could be calculated.
` MR. OGDEN: I have no more questions.
`I pass the witness.
` E X A M I N A T I O N
`BY MR. MAYS:
`Q Dr. Giles, let's start with this document
`here.
`A Which document?
`Q What's the exhibit number on this most
`recent one?
` MR. OGDEN: The huge one.
` MR. MAYS: The huge one, is it --
` THE WITNESS: The parts manual?
`BY MR. MAYS:
`Q Yeah.
` Is it 283?
` MR. OGDEN: I've forgotten now.
` THE WITNESS: 284.
`BY MR. MAYS:
`Q 284?
`A Yes.
`Q Now, Dr. Giles, nowhere in your rebuttal
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 229-21 Filed 10/05/23 Page 25 of 29 PageID #: 23677
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
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`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
`
`Page 260
`
`report did you cite Exhibit 284, correct?
`A I don't recall exactly where I cited it, no.
`Q And nowhere in your rebuttal report did you
`cite the Bates Number Page WA-0027222, correct?
`A I don't believe I did, no.
`Q And nowhere in your report did you cite the
`Bates Number Page WA-0027230, correct?
`A I don't believe I explicitly refer to it,
`no.
`Q And let's turn back to your opening -- I'm
`sorry, your rebuttal report, page 99.
`A Yes.
`Q And there's no reference in paragraphs 134,
`135 to a spare parts manual, correct?
`A Not in these paragraphs, no.
`Q And if you turn to the next page, there's no
`reference in paragraphs 136 or 137 to a spare parts
`manual, correct?
`A Not explicitly, no.
`Q And on page 101, there's no reference to a
`spare parts manual, correct?
`A That's correct.
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`202-232-0646
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 229-21 Filed 10/05/23 Page 26 of 29 PageID #: 23678
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`8/24/2023
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`
`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
`
`Page 261
`Q And on page 102, there's no reference to a
`spare parts manual, correct?
`A That's correct.
`Q And on page 103, there's no reference to the
`spare parts manual, correct?
`A That's correct.
`Q And on page 104, there's no reference to a
`spare parts manual, correct?
`A That's correct.
`Q And on page 105, going up to and including
`paragraph 138, there's no reference to a spare parts
`manual, correct?
`A There's not.
`Q So you would agree with me, Dr. Giles, that
`with regards to your opinions in the section
`entitled, The water reservoir is not mounted on the
`frame because the water reservoir is formed in the
`frame, you offered no opinions regarding the spare
`parts manual until today, correct?
`A Explicitly that's correct, yes.
`Q And the only reason why you offered that
`testimony was because it was elicited from you by
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 229-21 Filed 10/05/23 Page 27 of 29 PageID #: 23679
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`8/24/2023
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`
`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
`
`Page 262
`
`your counsel on redirect, correct?
`A Those were the first time I was directed to
`the spare parts manual in a deposition today, yes.
`Q And you're not aware of any other place in
`your rebuttal report where you discuss the spare
`parts manual, correct?
`A Not where I discuss it explicitly, no.
`Q And you're not aware of any other place in
`your rebuttal report where you cite the spare parts
`manual, correct?
`A I can't recall that I cited it in all the
`documents that I cited as references.
`Q In the body of your rebuttal report, though,
`you didn't cite the spare parts manual anywhere,
`correct?
`A That's my recollection, yes.
` MR. MAYS: Pass the witness.
` MR. OGDEN: I have one question.
` E X A M I N A T I O N
`BY MR. OGDEN:
`Q Who, if you know, did cite the spare parts
`manual?
`
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`202-232-0646
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 229-21 Filed 10/05/23 Page 28 of 29 PageID #: 23680
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`8/24/2023
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`
`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
`
`Page 263
`
`A I believe Dr. Sorini cited it.
` MR. OGDEN: That's all I have.
` MR. MAYS: So just jumping on that.
` E X A M I N A T I O N
`BY MR. MAYS:
`Q Dr. Sorini cited the spare parts manual, and
`you did not, correct?
`A Not in the body of the report, no.
` MR. MAYS: Pass the witness.
` MR. OGDEN: I think we're done.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the end of
`the deposition. The time is 5:23. We're off the
`record.
` (Time noted: 5:23 p.m. CT.)
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
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`202-232-0646
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 229-21 Filed 10/05/23 Page 29 of 29 PageID #: 23681
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`8/24/2023
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`
`Durham Giles, Ph.D.
`
` CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER
`
`Page 264
`
` I, ELISABETH A. LORENZ, Registered
`Merit Reporter and Certified Realtime Reporter, the
`officer before whom the foregoing deposition was
`taken, do hereby certify that the foregoing
`transcript is a true and correct record of the
`testimony given; that said testimony was taken by me
`stenographically and thereafter reduced to
`typewriting under my direction; that reading and
`signing was requested; and that I am neither counsel
`for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties
`to this case and have no interest, financial or
`otherwise, in its outcome.
` IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set
`my hand this 28th day of August, 2023.
`
` ____________________________________
` ELISABETH A. LORENZ
` NCRA Registered Merit Reporter
` NCRA Certified Realtime Reporter
`
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`202-232-0646
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`
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