throbber
Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 1 of 26 PageID #: 30349
`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 1 of 26 PagelD #: 30349
`
`EXHIBIT 3
`EXHIBIT 3
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 2 of 26 PageID #: 30350
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 1
`
` IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` FOR THE DISTRICT OF DELAWARE
`____________________________________
`WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC., )
` Plaintiff/Counter-Defendant )
`vs. ) Case No.
`CATERPILLAR, INC., ) 1:17-cv-00770-JDW
` Defendant/Counter-Plaintiff. )
`____________________________________)
`
` CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
` Video Recorded Deposition of:
` JAN SCHMIDT
` Rule 30(b)(6) Designee of Wirtgen America, Inc.
` Taken on behalf of the Defendant/Counter-Plaintiff
` Wednesday, March 29, 2023
`
`Court Stenographer:
`Virginia Dodge, RDR, CRR, LCR
`______________________________________________________
` DIGITAL EVIDENCE GROUP
` 1730 M Street, NW, Suite 812
` Washington, D.C. 20036
` (202) 232-0646
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 3 of 26 PageID #: 30351
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`3/29/2023
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`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 33
`what features, what capabilities, what functionalities
`the machine incorporates or includes, then I'm sure any
`machine that we have an opportunity to look at in our
`yard that we take as a trade or in a dealer's yard or
`potentially even in a customer's yard would be looked
`at and would be learned about to understand its full
`feature and capability spectrum.
` Q. And would that include operating the machine
`to understand how those features work?
` A. Absolutely.
` Q. Has Wirtgen America ever obtained any Roadtec
`milling machines?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And has Wirtgen America ever performed any
`competitive intelligence on any Roadtec milling
`machines it's obtained?
` A. If we're speaking in the context that I
`previously described as related to a Caterpillar
`product, yes, as we would have done with a Roadtec, a
`BOMAG, any other competitive machines that we would be
`exposed to.
` Q. Mr. Schmidt, if we could turn to page 10 of
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`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 4 of 26 PageID #: 30352
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`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 34
`Exhibit 60, topic number 4, do you understand that you
`are designated to testify on behalf of Wirtgen
`America's knowledge about this topic?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And are you prepared to testify on behalf of
`Wirtgen America's knowledge on this topic?
` A. I believe so.
` Q. And with respect to topic number 4, what did
`you do to prepare to testify on this topic today?
` A. Again, I reviewed my previous deposition
`statement and other documents that were collected in
`preparation for that particular deposition.
` Q. What were the documents that you reviewed in
`preparation for your testimony on topic 4 today?
` A. There were machine population lists,
`inventory lists, parts, sales, summaries, pricing --
`parts pricing documentation.
` Q. Did you review any of the Wirtgen America
`asserted patents as defined in topic 4?
` A. No.
` Q. Did you review any of the file histories for
`the applications corresponding to Wirtgen America's
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`
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 5 of 26 PageID #: 30353
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`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 38
`
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Objection. Form.
` A. When you say what role, can you be more
`specific as to what you mean by the role?
` Q. (By Attorney Mays) Who at Wirtgen America
`was involved in conceiving the claims of the '530
`patent that is Exhibit 16?
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Objection. Form.
` A. Sorry. Can you repeat the -- in conceiving
`what?
` Q. (By Attorney Mays) Who at Wirtgen America
`was involved in conceiving the claims of this patent,
`the '530 patent that's Exhibit 16?
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Same objection.
` A. We filed or we asked our attorneys to submit
`and apply for the patent. I don't know that anybody at
`Wirtgen America would have been directly -- I mean we
`don't have any engineering capacity. We don't have any
`patent experts.
` Q. (By Attorney Mays) And, Mr. Schmidt, what
`does Wirtgen America know about who, specifically what
`entity, filed for this patent?
` A. What do you mean by what entity?
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`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 6 of 26 PageID #: 30354
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`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 39
` Q. Well, for example, if you see on the left-
`hand column, a few lines down, the line 73 refers to
`assignee Wirtgen GmbH. Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So it was Wirtgen GmbH that filed for this
`patent, not Wirtgen America, correct?
` A. I mean that's what the document states.
` Q. And do you have any reason to disagree with
`that statement on the document?
` A. Again, we don't design. We don't engineer at
`Wirtgen America. But we are a business entity in the
`U.S. So as the representative business entity in the
`U.S., I would expect that we -- that it is our role to
`apply for any patents in that environment.
` Q. What's the basis of your expectation that
`it's Wirtgen America's role to apply for patents?
` A. Because it's a United States patent.
` Q. And what's your basis for understanding that
`the fact that it's a United States patent means that
`it's Wirtgen America that applied for this patent?
` A. Because Wirtgen America is located and has a
`business presence in the United States.
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`
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`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 7 of 26 PageID #: 30355
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`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 40
`
` Q. And in preparing for your testimony on
`topic 4, did you review the actual initial application
`for the patent application that became Exhibit 16?
` A. I did not.
` Q. So did you actually review the name of the
`entity that was filing for this patent in preparing for
`your testimony on topic 4?
` A. I did not.
` Q. So if in fact the individuals that filed for
`this patent were in fact Wirtgen GmbH employees, would
`that surprise you?
` A. I wouldn't know.
` Q. If we could look at line 72 of Exhibit 16, it
`refers to two individuals. Do you see that?
` A. The inventors?
` Q. Yes.
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you -- does Wirtgen America know who Peter
`Busley is?
` A. Peter Busley used to be an engineer with
`Wirtgen. I believe he's retired.
` Q. Was he an engineer with Wirtgen America?
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`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 8 of 26 PageID #: 30356
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`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 41
`
` A. No, with Wirtgen GmbH.
` Q. And who is Gunter Tewes?
` A. I'm not sure. Don't know him.
` Q. In preparing for your deposition today, did
`you speak with either of the inventors listed on this
`patent?
` A. I did not.
` Q. How were the claims of the '530 patent that's
`Exhibit 16, how were the claims conceived?
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Object to form.
` A. Since again we don't have the engineering or
`design functionality at Wirtgen America, I can't speak
`to that.
` Q. (By Attorney Mays) So is your testimony then
`that Wirtgen America does not have knowledge as to the
`conception of the '530 patent?
` A. Can you repeat that?
` Q. Would you agree with me that Wirtgen America
`itself does not have knowledge as to how the claims of
`the '530 patent were conceived?
` A. No. I mean we again are directly in daily
`communication with customers, with end users. We see
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`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 9 of 26 PageID #: 30357
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 47
`
`patent?
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Objection. Form.
` A. I didn't say that I conveyed this
`specifically to Peter Busley, but I know I've had
`conversations with other colleagues at Wirtgen Germany
`who might have conveyed it to Peter Busley, and I know
`that other individuals at Wirtgen America, yeah, would
`have probably had more direct dialogue with Peter and
`could have been that conduct -- or that -- sorry --
`that channel to get that information to Peter.
` Or again, as I said, it could have been one
`of my conversations with another colleague at Wirtgen
`Germany about these kind of subjects. Or one of my
`colleagues on the service side. I don't know
`specifically.
` Q. (By Attorney Mays) In your answer,
`Mr. Schmidt, respectfully, I heard the word "could"
`quite a bit. I'm not asking about what could have
`happened. I'm asking about what did happen.
` How did Peter Busley first conceive of the
`ideas claimed in the '530 patent?
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Objection. Form.
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 10 of 26 PageID #: 30358
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 48
` A. I'm not Peter Busley. I don't know that.
` Q. (By Attorney Mays) Has the information about
`how Peter Busley first conceived of the claimed
`invention of the '530 ever been communicated to Wirtgen
`America?
` A. No.
` Q. And has the information about how Gunter
`Tewes first conceived of the claimed inventions of the
`'530 patent ever been communicated to Wirtgen America?
` A. Actually, I'm going to correct my answer to
`your question, to your previous question about Peter
`and Gunter Tewes. So product changes, product
`improvements, product modifications that end up in
`patents are regularly communicated to us, but we're not
`always necessarily informed that this is done in form
`of a patent.
` Some of these -- I don't know -- you know,
`come across as a product refresh as a product
`improvement, as a generational upgrade. But we are
`not, again, given information which one of those
`features has been part of a patent application or will
`become part of a patent application.
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 11 of 26 PageID #: 30359
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 49
` Q. Well, and I respect that, and I respect that
`your role is as product support. But, Mr. Schmidt,
`you've been specifically designated as to how the
`claims of the '530 patent itself were conceived. And
`so what I'm asking about is not products. I'm asking
`about how the claims were conceived, the claims of the
`patent itself are conceived.
` And it's my understanding from what you're
`saying is that that particular information has never
`been conveyed to Wirtgen America. Am I understanding
`correctly?
` A. If you're asking me if myself or somebody at
`Wirtgen America knows the exact means of what triggered
`either one of those individuals to come out with the
`idea, the concept and the request to turn this into a
`patent, then I have to say no.
` Q. And turning now to the concept of reduction
`to practice, has the information about how the claims
`of the '530 patent were reduced to practice, has that
`information ever been conveyed to Wirtgen America?
` A. If you're asking me if this was implemented
`in a product, yes.
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`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 12 of 26 PageID #: 30360
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 53
`
` A. I can't speak to that.
` Q. (By Attorney Mays) And we're about to move
`on to another patent so I'll just throw a final open-
`ended question to you, Mr. Schmidt.
` Is there anything else that Wirtgen America,
`any other information regarding conception or reduction
`to practice of the claims of the '530 patent that
`Wirtgen America has?
` A. I can't speak to that.
` ATTORNEY MAYS: I'm about to move on. This
`might be a good time for a break.
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Perfect.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off record at 10:29.
` (A recess was taken.)
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on record, 10:44.
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Chris, before we get started,
`can I just go ahead and designate this deposition as
`confidential - attorneys' eyes only?
` ATTORNEY MAYS: Sure.
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Thank you.
` Q. (By Attorney Mays) Mr. Schmidt, I have
`handed you what I've previously marked as Defendant's
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`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 13 of 26 PageID #: 30361
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 65
`about the development process that -- I'm sorry. Let
`me restate that. I said the wrong entity.
` What information does Wirtgen America have
`about how the inventions claimed in the '871 patent
`went from concept to actual implementation in the
`machine? In other words, the specific steps and
`activities that Mr. Busley and Mr. Tewes took to
`implement those and get them working.
` A. The specific steps, we don't have direct
`information.
` Q. And same question with respect to Exhibit 16.
`What information does Wirtgen America have about how
`Mr. Busley and Mr. Tewes went from concept to
`implementation of the inventions in the '53 -- I'm
`sorry -- '530 patent? Same answer?
` A. Specific information, we do not have. Or I
`do not have.
` Q. Is your answer -- with regards to the
`question I just asked, is your answer the same with
`respect to all of Wirtgen America's asserted patents?
`In other words, Wirtgen America doesn't know how the
`inventors of those patents went from concept to
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 14 of 26 PageID #: 30362
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 68
`
` Q. What is Wirtgen America's basis for
`contending that the '592 patent is entitled to the
`filing date of German patent 10 2005 044 211?
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Objection. Form.
` A. I have not seen that patent, so I can't speak
`to that.
` Q. (By Attorney Mays) Has Wirtgen America ever
`reviewed the German '211 patent listed on the face of
`the '592 patent?
` A. I have not.
` Q. We can set that aside.
` Mr. Schmidt, I'm handing you what's been
`previously marked as Defendant's Exhibit 19 and a copy
`to counsel. This is United States Patent 7,946,788.
` Do you see that, Mr. Schmidt?
` A. B2. Yes.
` Q. And the '788 patent, which is also
`Exhibit 19, do you see that there are three individuals
`listed as inventors? Jaroslaw Jurasz, Gunter Hahn and
`Gunter Tewes? Do you see that?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. Do you know who the first individual listed
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`
`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 15 of 26 PageID #: 30363
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`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 69
`
`as an inventor is?
` A. I do not.
` Q. And Gunter Hahn, that's Dr. Hahn that we've
`been speaking about a little bit earlier?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And in preparing for your testimony today on
`topic 4, you didn't speak with Gunter Hahn, correct?
` A. I did not.
` Q. He's still employed by Wirtgen GmbH?
` A. Yes, he is.
` Q. Presumably, you could have called him if you
`felt you needed to, though, correct?
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Objection. Form.
` A. His availability is severely limited, but I
`could have tried to set up a conference call.
` Q. (By Attorney Mays) Do you have any or does
`Wirtgen America have any specific knowledge about how
`Mr. Jurasz, Dr. Hahn or Mr. Tewes conceived of the
`specific claimed inventions of the '788 patent?
` A. Other than I'm going to refer to my previous
`statements, but specific knowledge, I do not, we do
`not.
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
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`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 16 of 26 PageID #: 30364
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 70
`
` Q. And Wirtgen America does not have any
`specific knowledge from Dr. Hahn himself regarding how
`he believes he conceived of these ideas, does it?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And in terms of moving from conception to
`actual implementation in a machine, what specific
`information does Wirtgen America have regarding how
`these claims of the '788 patent came to be implemented?
` A. So we saw some early forms of this grade
`control system that allowed parallel use of two
`different sensors by turning one into standby mode and
`setting it or calibrating it while the other sensor was
`still live and then just being able to switch that over
`early on. And then obviously we were trained and shown
`how to utilize that functionality so that we could turn
`around and train our dealers and end users in how to
`use the functionality.
` Q. And about when did you see these early forms
`of the grade control system?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. Could it have been before 2006?
` A. No, I don't think so.
`
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`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 17 of 26 PageID #: 30365
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 84
`nugget of conception regarding the ideas claimed in the
`'474 patent, correct?
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Objection. Form.
` A. Let me review the specific invention. Make
`sure that is the case.
` Q. (By Attorney Mays) And while you're doing
`that, you've not seen this patent before today; is that
`correct?
` A. I have not.
` Yeah. I would refer to my previous answers.
` Q. And just so the record's clear, my -- because
`I had kind of stepped on your toes, so to speak.
` Wirtgen America does not know how Jaroslav
`Jurasz first had the nugget of the conception regarding
`the ideas conceived in the '474 patent, correct?
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Objection. Form.
` A. We do not.
` Q. (By Attorney Mays) And Wirtgen America does
`not know how Dr. Hahn had the nugget of conception
`regarding the ideas conceived in the -- or claimed in
`the '474 patent, correct?
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Objection. Form.
`
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 18 of 26 PageID #: 30366
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 85
` A. Other than what I've already previously
`stipulated, we don't have any specific knowledge of
`what day and when he decided to pursue this.
` Q. (By Attorney Mays) And Wirtgen America does
`not have any knowledge about how Gunter Tewes had the
`nugget of conception of the ideas claimed in the '474
`patent, correct?
` A. Same answer.
` Q. And Wirtgen America does not have information
`regarding the development process for the ideas claimed
`in the '474 patent, correct?
` A. Can you repeat that?
` Q. Wirtgen America does not have information
`regarding the specific development process that the
`inventors followed in reducing the claimed ideas of the
`'474 patent to practice, correct?
` A. If you're referring to, again, a day-to-day
`progress, no, but we certainly had an understanding of
`the concept and its, let's say, generational
`development.
` Q. When you say "generational development," what
`do you mean by that?
`
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 19 of 26 PageID #: 30367
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 86
` A. Well, where you go from idea or inception or
`conception, concept, whatever, to, okay, how do we --
`what do we -- what part of the idea do we implement?
`How far do we go with it? How can we make it work?
`And then how do we make it easily usable? And then how
`do we verify that it does what we need it to do and is
`reliable?
` Q. I'm handing you what has been previously
`marked as Defendant's Exhibit 22 with a copy to
`counsel.
` And, Mr. Schmidt, Exhibit 22 is a U.S. patent
`labeled 7,530,641. Three inventors listed. One is a
`Christian Berning. I believe we've already spoken
`about him.
` Then there's a Herbert Lange. Do you see
`that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you know who Herbert Lange is?
` A. He's an engineer.
` Q. Is he still employed with Wirtgen GmbH?
` A. I'm not sure.
` Q. Is he employed by any Wirtgen Group entity?
`
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 20 of 26 PageID #: 30368
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 88
`the drum off, wait till the drum came to a complete
`stop. Then being able to back up. Then having to
`reengage the clutch again, waiting for it to come up to
`speed before you could sit down.
` So I mean that -- again, that was a
`conversation for many, many years prior to probably
`this being invented or being applied for.
` Q. (By Attorney Mays) Okay. And did those
`conversations actually involve Christian Berning?
` A. They would have involved Dieter Simons for
`sure, and at some point in time, they would have
`involved Christian.
` Q. And so Wirtgen America's knowledge about how
`Christian Berning conceived of the claimed ideas is
`based on these conversations; is that right?
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Objection. Form.
` A. Not only the conversations, but also the
`product that was developed and tested and different
`iterations of the final solution provided for different
`types of milling machines.
` Q. (By Attorney Mays) Maybe we're getting
`conflated here. I'm not asking about the development
`
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 21 of 26 PageID #: 30369
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 89
`and the testing of the final solution. I'm asking
`about again what knowledge does Wirtgen America have
`about how Christian Berning came up with that nugget of
`conception, the very first idea of conception?
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Objection. Form.
` A. I'm not Christian Berning, so I can't speak
`to that.
` Q. (By Attorney Mays) And same question. How
`did Herbert Lange first have that nugget of conception
`regarding the ideas claimed in the '641 patent?
` A. Same answer.
` Q. And is the answer the same with respect to
`Dieter Simons?
` A. It is.
` Q. Okay. And to the best of your knowledge, is
`that answer the same with respect to all the various
`patents that Wirtgen America is asserting in this case?
` A. I'd rather not give a general answer.
` Q. Okay. What knowledge does Wirtgen America
`have about the development process going from
`conception to reduction to practice of the ideas
`claimed in the '641 patent?
`
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 22 of 26 PageID #: 30370
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 91
` And I'm handing you what's been previously
`marked as Defendant's Exhibit 23, United States Patent
`7,828,309.
` Mr. Schmidt, I'm going to basically be asking
`you the same questions as before so --
` Well, first, do we know who -- or does
`Wirtgen America know who Markus Schäfer is?
` A. I do not.
` Q. Wirtgen America doesn't know one way or
`another whether Markus Schäfer is still employed --
` A. I do not.
` Q. -- at Wirtgen?
` So same questions as before. How did
`Christian Berning first have the nugget of conception
`regarding the ideas claimed in the '309 patent?
` ATTORNEY LEVY: Objection. Form.
` A. So this is another subject that had regular
`or frequent dialogue amongst many individuals within
`the Wirtgen Group global organization, including the
`factories, about the ability to keep a machine from
`operating outside of safe operational limits when it
`came to excessive slope or grades that it was exposed
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 23 of 26 PageID #: 30371
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 100
` Q. And, Mr. Schmidt, do you remember the time
`frame of those conversations?
` A. Probably early -- late '90s, early 2000s.
`But I'm --
` Q. Does Wirtgen America have any other knowledge
`regarding how the claims of the '268 patent were
`conceived?
` A. No.
` Q. And does Wirtgen America have any other
`information regarding how the inventors went from
`conception to actually getting the invention to work?
` A. No.
` Q. We can set that aside.
` Handing you what's been previously marked as
`United States -- or I'm sorry -- Defendant's
`Exhibit 27. Sorry. Copy for counsel. United States
`Patent 9,879,391.
` And one question for you, Mr. Schmidt. I
`think you said before that Christian Berning is still
`with Wirtgen. Is that correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. But you haven't had any conversations with
`
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 24 of 26 PageID #: 30372
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 109
`
`tool.
` Q. And I'm not asking you about the benefits of
`the invention. I'm asking you how these individuals
`came up with the idea. And it sounds to me what you're
`saying is that Wirtgen America at least doesn't have
`the details about how these two first came up with this
`idea. Is that right?
` A. No. You asked me how they conceived of it,
`and I keep telling or answering the same. I can't tell
`you exact -- I'm not in their head. I don't know when
`they decided to act on this, but the subject, the
`accomplishments that were reached with the patent and
`the features that it enabled were conversations of --
`were the subject of many conversations within our
`community.
` Q. And again, I'm not asking about conversations
`that might have happened in the community. I'm asking
`about these particular individuals. How did these
`particular individuals come up with the idea claimed in
`the '972 patent?
` A. I can't speak to that.
` Q. And are you aware of any -- let me rephrase
`
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 25 of 26 PageID #: 30373
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
` C E R T I F I C A T E
`
`Page 258
`
` I, Virginia Dodge, Registered Diplomate
`Reporter and Tennessee Licensed Court Reporter and
`Notary Public, do hereby certify that I recorded to the
`best of my skill and ability by machine shorthand the
`deposition contained herein, that same was reduced to
`computer transcription by myself, and that the
`foregoing is a true, accurate and complete transcript
`of the deposition testimony heard in this cause.
` I further certify that the witness was first
`duly sworn by me and that I am not an attorney or
`counsel of any of the parties, nor a relative or
`employee of any attorney or counsel connected with the
`action, nor financially interested in the action.
` This 6th day of April, 2023.
`
` ___________________________________
` Virginia Dodge
` My Commission Expires: 8/23/2026
` Tennessee LCR No. 734, Exp: 6/30/24
` Tennessee CCR No. 0499, Exp: 6/30/24
` RDR/CRR #835835
`
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`

`

`Case 1:17-cv-00770-JDW Document 305-3 Filed 02/02/24 Page 26 of 26 PageID #: 30374
`
`3/29/2023
`
`Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
`Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
`
`Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
`Page 259
`
` Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6), c/o
` Patterson Intellectual Property Law, P.C.
` 1600 Division Street, Suite 500
` Nashville, TN 37203
`
` Case: Wirtgen America Inc. v. Caterpillar Inc.
` Date of deposition: March 29, 2023
` Deponent: Jan Schmidt 30(b)(6)
`
` Please be advised that the transcript in the above
` referenced matter is now complete and ready for signature.
` The deponent may come to this office to sign the transcript,
` a copy may be purchased for the witness to review and sign,
` or the deponent and/or counsel may waive the option of
` signing. Please advise us of the option selected.
` Please forward the errata sheet and the original signed
` signature page to counsel noticing the deposition, noting

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