`
`Page 1
`
` UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`
` SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
`
`--------------------------------X
`UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
`
` Plaintiff,
`
` VS. Case No. 1:13-CV-06326(TPG)
` ECF CASE
`PREVEZON HOLDINGS LTD.,
`et al.,
`
` Defendants.
`--------------------------------X
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION
`
` OF
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER
`
` Wednesday, April 15, 2015
`
` 30 Rockefeller Plaza
`
` New York, New York
`
`Reported by:
`AYLETTE GONZALEZ, RPR, CLR, CCR
`JOB NO. 91742
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`1 2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 2 of 386
`
`Page 2
`
` DATE: April 15, 2015
`
` TIME: 9:30 a.m.
`
` Videotaped Deposition of WILLIAM F.
`
`BROWDER, held at the offices of BAKER BOTTS,
`
`LLP, 30 Rockefeller Plaza, New York, New
`
`York 10112, pursuant to NOTICE, before
`
`AYLETTE GONZALEZ, a Registered Professional
`
`Reporter, Certified LiveNote Reporter,
`
`Certified Court Reporter and Notary Public
`
`of the States of New York and New Jersey.
`
`1 2
`
`3
`
`4 5 6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 3 of 386
`
`Page 3
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
`UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
`
`Counsel for Plaintiff
`
` One St. Andrew's Plaza
`
` New York, New York 10007
`
`BY: PAUL MONTELEONI, ESQ.
`
`BY: ANDREW ADAMS, ESQ.
`
`BAKER & HOSTETLER
`
`Counsel for Defendants
`
` 1050 Connecticut Avenue, N.W.
`
` Washington, District of Columbia 20036
`
`BY: MARK CYMROT, ESQ.
`
`BY: PAUL LEVINE, ESQ.
`
`BY: MORITZ ABRAMOVITZ, ESQ.
`
`///
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`1 2
`
`3 4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 4 of 386
`
`Page 4
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S: (Continued)
`
`BAKER BOTTS
`
`Counsel for Defendants
`
` 30 Rockefeller Plaza
`
` New York, New York 10112
`
`BY: SETH TAUBE, ESQ.
`
`BY: JOYCE YOUNG, ESQ.
`
`KOBRE & KIM
`
`Counsel for the Witness
`
` 800 Third Avenue
`
` New York, New York 10022
`
`BY: MICHAEL KIM, ESQ.
`
`BY: LINDSEY WEISS, ESQ.
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
`
` LEM LATTIMER, Videographer
`
`1 2
`
`3 4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 5 of 386
`
`Page 5
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the
`
`Tape No. 1 for the videotaped
`
`deposition of William Browder in the
`
`matter of United States of America vs.
`
`Prevezon Holdings Ltd., et al.
`
` We are now going on the record.
`
`The time is 9:35 a.m.
`
` Will counsel please state their
`
`appearances for the record.
`
` MR. KIM: This is Michael Kim and
`
`Lindsay Weiss of Kobre & Kim for the
`
`witness, William Browder.
`
` MR. MONTELEONI: Paul Monteleoni
`
`and Andrew Adams for the Southern
`
`District of New York U.S. Attorney's
`
`Office.
`
` MR. TAUBE: Seth Taube and
`
`Joyce Young, Baker Botts, for
`
`Defendants.
`
` MR. CYMROT: Mark Cymrot and
`
`Paul Levine for Defendants.
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the Court
`
`Reporter please swear the witness in.
`
` ********************
`
`1 2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 6 of 386
`
`Page 6
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
` W I L L I A M F. B R O W D E R,
`
` called as a witness, having been
`
` first duly sworn by a Notary Public
`
` of the State of New York, was
`
` examined and testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION BY
`
` MR. CYMROT:
`
` Q. Mr. Browder, my name is
`
`Mark Cymrot. I represent the Defendants in
`
`this action.
`
` You're here pursuant to Subpoena?
`
` A. I'm sorry, is that a question?
`
` Q. Yes. Are you here pursuant to a
`
`Subpoena?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And a court order?
`
` A. I think so.
`
` Q. Let me show you what I'll mark as
`
`Browder Exhibit 1.
`
` MR. KIM: Sorry, Mark, can I do
`
` the confidentiality?
`
` MR. CYMROT: Oh, I'm sorry, yes, I
`
` skipped that. Yes.
`
` MR. KIM: All right. Sorry about
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 7 of 386
`
`Page 7
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
`that.
`
` So this is Michael Kim. So we
`
`still do not have a Confidentiality
`
`Agreement or Order from the court.
`
`I'm not faulting anybody, that's just
`
`objectively the situation we're in.
`
` It would be our preference to
`
`obviously have this deposition only
`
`when covered by a court ordered
`
`Confidentiality Order. But given that
`
`we're under Subpoena, we will proceed
`
`in the manner that -- that Plaintiff
`
`wishes.
`
` And as I understand it, and I
`
`discussed this with Mr. Cymrot before
`
`the deposition began, there are other
`
`people listening in who, I believe,
`
`has identified three names, and I'll
`
`ask him to just state what his
`
`understanding is for the record.
`
`We -- we, on Mr. Browder's part, were
`
`made to understand that certain client
`
`representatives would be attending.
`
` I did not understand the word
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 8 of 386
`
`Page 8
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
`"attending" to mean unnamed persons or
`
`persons I can't verify who's listening
`
`in or listening in. That's fine.
`
`Given we're under Subpoena, we're
`
`willing to proceed based on the
`
`understanding that the contents of
`
`this Subpoena are covered by the same
`
`arrangements that was in the
`
`March 20th letter from us, which was
`
`subsequently agreed to by Defendants,
`
`with the exception that the client
`
`representatives who will be identified
`
`as listening in would be allowed to
`
`access this deposition on the
`
`undertaking by all that the contents
`
`of the deposition will not be passed
`
`on to any other persons pending
`
`further order of the Court.
`
` And I think after the deposition
`
`we understand we'll try to get the
`
`Confidentiality Agreement finalized
`
`and submitted to Judge Griesa as soon
`
`as we're able to.
`
` MR. CYMROT: Right. I would just
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 9 of 386
`
`Page 9
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
`say that we've gotten this far in our
`
`discussions as the point where the
`
`judge has before him on the Government
`
`confidentiality proposal the same
`
`issues, so they'll be resolved when he
`
`resolves them.
`
` In terms of people looking in,
`
`there are other attorneys and others
`
`associated with our law firm;
`
`Gabriella Volshteyn as client
`
`representative, Nataliya Vaselnitskaya
`
`and Denis Katsyv, the client
`
`representatives. And those are the
`
`ones I'm aware of.
`
` But anybody looking in will be
`
`subject to the same restrictions, that
`
`it cannot be used for any other
`
`purpose other than this lawsuit as we
`
`set forth in that letter.
`
` MR. KIM: Just one question. Are
`
`you able to verify who's actually
`
`listening and who's not to a degree of
`
`certainty.
`
` MR. CYMROT: I am not sitting
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 10 of 386
`
`Page 10
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
` here, no.
`
` MR. KIM: Okay. So we object to
`
` proceeding, but given we're under
`
` Subpoena, we'll just note the
`
` objection and proceed as we just
`
` discussed. So thank you. Sorry to
`
` interrupt. Proceed.
`
` MR. CYMROT: Okay. Exhibit 1.
`
` All right. So I'm marking for
`
` identification as Browder Exhibit 1 a
`
` letter dated December 4, 2012 to the
`
` New York County District Attorney's
`
` office, I believe Mr. Browder signed
`
` this, and attachments.
`
` Let's get the Court Reporter to
`
` initial it, I'm sorry.
`
` Why don't you use this copy which
`
` has tabs.
`
` (Browder Exhibit 1, document Bates
`
` stamped PREV_000003127_001 through
`
` '166 was marked for identification, as
`
` of this date.)
`
`BY MR. CYMROT:
`
` Q. All right. Mr. Browder, can you
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 11 of 386
`
`Page 11
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
`tell us what that letter is?
`
` A. Can I correct a statement that you
`
`made, is that --
`
` Q. I guess you can.
`
` A. This is not a letter that I signed.
`
` Q. Who signed it?
`
` A. This was signed by Brown Rudnick,
`
`LLP.
`
` Q. Do you recognize that as a letter
`
`you authorized?
`
` A. This was a letter that I'd
`
`authorized, yes, on -- yeah.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` MR. CYMROT: And let me mark as
`
` Exhibit 2 the Verified Claimant, the
`
` original. The original.
`
` BY MR. CYMROT:
`
` Q. So how did -- while we're waiting
`
`for that, how did that letter come about,
`
`Mr. Browder?
`
` A. This letter came about based on
`
`a -- an investigation that we did into the
`
`proceeds of the Magnitsky crime.
`
` Q. And who is "we"?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 12 of 386
`
`Page 12
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
` A. My -- my legal team and myself.
`
` Q. And who's your legal team or who
`
`was your legal team at the time?
`
` A. My legal team started out with
`
`John Moscow from BakerHostetler and included
`
`Neil Micklethwaite from Brown Rudnick,
`
`Jonathan Weiner from APCO, John Ashcroft from
`
`Ashcroft Associates, various Russian lawyers.
`
` Q. Brown Rudnick?
`
` A. Brown Rudnick; Neil Micklethwaite I
`
`mentioned.
`
` Q. Okay. And who at Hermitage was
`
`working on this?
`
` A. Pretty much Vadim Kleiner,
`
`Ivan Cherkasov.
`
` Q. And yourself?
`
` A. And my- -- well, yeah.
`
` Q. You were working on it, right?
`
` A. Yeah.
`
` Q. So you sent this letter to the U.S.
`
`Attorney, and what happened next, or it
`
`actually went to the State District Attorney,
`
`correct?
`
` A. So John Moscow introduced me to
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 13 of 386
`
`Page 13
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
`Adam Kaufmann, who was head of investigations
`
`division of the New York District Attorney's
`
`office. I walked it into his office on the
`
`4th of December 2012 or maybe possibly one or
`
`two days later, and then they took up the
`
`case.
`
` Q. John Moscow wasn't representing you
`
`at this time?
`
` A. No, he wasn't, but he did introduce
`
`me to Adam Kaufmann earlier.
`
` Q. When was that?
`
` A. I can't recall exactly, but one or
`
`two -- I met Adam Kaufmann through John Moscow
`
`at the Cambridge crime conference in
`
`Cambridge, England.
`
` Q. And when was that?
`
` A. I can't recall exactly.
`
` Q. And John Moscow represented you
`
`for, what, six months in 2007 and '8, was it?
`
` A. And sort of informally afterwards,
`
`after we -- after he got called on to another
`
`case and didn't have time for us.
`
` Q. Well, all right, we don't need to
`
`get into the subject, but isn't it true that
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 14 of 386
`
`Page 14
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
`you discharged John Moscow and BakerHostetler?
`
` A. I wouldn't -- I wouldn't -- no.
`
` Q. You stopped relying upon
`
`BakerHostetler's advice, correct?
`
` A. BakerHostetler -- John Moscow
`
`stopped returning our phone calls because he
`
`got busy on another case.
`
` Q. And you stopped relying upon his
`
`advice?
`
` A. No, not true.
`
` Q. Never, to this day?
`
` A. Well, when he became adverse to us
`
`in this case, obviously his advice was no
`
`longer objective.
`
` Q. I see. And when was the last time
`
`before -- what would it be, December,
`
`November of 2013 that you spoke to
`
`John Moscow?
`
` A. I don't recall.
`
` Q. Years before that?
`
` A. I think it was at the Cambridge
`
`crime conference that I last spoke to him.
`
` Q. Which was when?
`
` A. I -- I don't remember which --
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 15 of 386
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
`Page 15
`
`which year it was.
`
` Q. 2012, 2011?
`
` A. I'd have to --
`
` Q. No idea?
`
` A. I would have to look at the -- at
`
`the Cambridge crime conference schedule and
`
`see, see when he was there and Adam Kaufmann
`
`was there.
`
` Q. So at the time of this letter,
`
`December 4, 2012, you walked into the New York
`
`County District Attorney's office; is that
`
`what I understand?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. With whom?
`
` A. On my own.
`
` Q. I see. And you presented this
`
`letter?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. And what was that -- what happened
`
`after that?
`
` A. At that point they accepted the
`
`letter.
`
` Q. And was there a conversation?
`
` A. And then perhaps a few weeks later
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 16 of 386
`
`Page 16
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
`I was informed that the -- they were taking up
`
`the case.
`
` Q. In the New York County District
`
`Attorney's office?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. All right. And what happened in
`
`terms of the case after that?
`
` A. They -- I'm trying -- I can't
`
`remember the name of the investigator --
`
`started to do some work on it and then
`
`eventually decided that it was a real case.
`
` Q. And when did it get to the U.S.
`
`Attorney's Office?
`
` A. After that.
`
` Q. When after that?
`
` A. I don't recall.
`
` Q. How much work was done in the
`
`D.A.'s office in New York?
`
` A. I don't work in the D.A.'s office.
`
` Q. How much work did they tell you
`
`they did?
`
` A. They don't -- I'm not a member of
`
`their staff, they don't -- they don't tell me
`
`what they're doing or not doing.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 17 of 386
`
`Page 17
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
` Q. After the first conversation, did
`
`you have additional conversations with the
`
`investigator?
`
` A. I did.
`
` Q. How many?
`
` A. I can't recall.
`
` Q. Did you record them?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Did you take notes?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. So what were they about?
`
` A. Just status reports.
`
` Q. What did he tell you about the
`
`status?
`
` A. They were working on it.
`
` Q. Nothing more?
`
` A. That it was a real case.
`
` Q. How long did the conversations
`
`last?
`
` A. I don't recall.
`
` Q. No idea; hour, two hours, three
`
`hours?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Less than that?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 18 of 386
`
`Page 18
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
` A. Less than that.
`
` Q. Fifteen minutes?
`
` A. Perhaps. I don't recall.
`
` Q. How many of these conversations did
`
`you have?
`
` A. I don't remember exactly.
`
` Q. All right. When did it go to the
`
`U.S. Attorney's Office, approximately?
`
` A. After the -- sometime after we
`
`submitted this, but I -- but I can't remember
`
`the dates.
`
` Q. I see. How long before it was
`
`filed in federal court?
`
` A. It was filed in federal court I
`
`think a year later or some- -- maybe in the
`
`fall of 2013.
`
` Q. It was filed in, I believe,
`
`November or December of 2013, so it's about a
`
`year later; so how long before the Complaint
`
`was filed did you first have your conversation
`
`with the U.S. Attorney's Office?
`
` A. Quite a bit.
`
` Q. Months?
`
` A. Yes.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 19 of 386
`
`Page 19
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
` Q. Nine months?
`
` A. Perhaps.
`
` Q. So it was about three months in the
`
`D.A.'s office and then nine months in the U.S.
`
`Attorney's Office?
`
` A. I don't know the timing.
`
` Q. All right. Who did you talk to in
`
`the U.S. Attorney's Office?
`
` A. I spoke to Sharon Levin,
`
`Paul Monteleoni.
`
` Q. Did you speak to Todd Hyman, the
`
`investigator?
`
` A. He might have been present, but my
`
`first contact was with Sharon Levin.
`
` Q. All right. And what were your
`
`conversations with Sharon Levin?
`
` A. That they had taken over the case
`
`from the New York D.A.'s office.
`
` Q. Anything else?
`
` A. That they were proceeding with the
`
`case.
`
` Q. Did they tell you that they were
`
`investigating?
`
` A. They weren't sharing with me their
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 20 of 386
`
`Page 20
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
`internal conversations.
`
` Q. Did they ask you for more
`
`information?
`
` A. Not at that meeting.
`
` Q. The first meeting?
`
` A. At the first meeting they just --
`
`it was just a very simple meeting.
`
` Q. So you were there alone?
`
` A. I don't remember if anyone was
`
`there with me or not.
`
` Q. I see. And there were three people
`
`on the side of the United States?
`
` A. There were more than three people,
`
`but I don't know who else was there.
`
` Q. I see. Did there come a time when
`
`they --
`
` A. Actually let me correct that.
`
`Somebody from the New York D.A.'s office was
`
`there as well.
`
` Q. Okay. And who was that?
`
` A. That -- I don't remember the name
`
`of the person.
`
` Q. Investigator or a lawyer?
`
` A. I don't know.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 21 of 386
`
`Page 21
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
` Q. Did they give you cards?
`
` A. I don't remember.
`
` Q. How many meetings between the first
`
`meeting and the filing of the Complaint did
`
`you have with the U.S. Attorney's Office?
`
` A. I can't say for certain, but I
`
`think there was maybe one more in-person
`
`meeting.
`
` Q. Other people from Hermitage or your
`
`lawyers meet with the U.S. Attorney's Office
`
`before the case was filed?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. So it was just you?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Did there come a time when they
`
`asked you for more information other than
`
`what's in this letter?
`
` A. Yeah.
`
` Q. When was that?
`
` A. Spring or summer of 2013, I can't
`
`remember exactly.
`
` Q. What did they ask you?
`
` A. They asked -- well, they didn't --
`
`didn't ask me personally; they asked people on
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 22 of 386
`
`Page 22
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
`my team for more information.
`
` Q. Who did they ask?
`
` A. Vadim Kleiner.
`
` Q. How did they get to meet people on
`
`your team if they weren't at the meetings?
`
` A. I maybe introduced them on the
`
`phone, I don't re- -- I don't recall.
`
` Q. So they asked Mr. Kleiner for more
`
`information?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What more information?
`
` A. I wasn't part of those
`
`conversations.
`
` Q. Did their files at Hermitage about
`
`what was given the U.S. Attorney's Office?
`
` A. Surely there are files.
`
` Q. But you haven't given them to us in
`
`response to the Subpoena; is that right?
`
` A. I don't know.
`
` Q. Who's responsible for that?
`
` A. There's a whole team of people
`
`responsible for that.
`
` Q. Well, you're ultimately responsible
`
`for your Subpoena to you, isn't it?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 23 of 386
`
`Page 23
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
` A. Subpoena is to me.
`
` Q. Are you supervising the production
`
`of the documents?
`
` A. I've got a whole team of people
`
`who's working on that, and they report to me
`
`from time to time.
`
` Q. I see. And have they reported to
`
`you that they provided us with files that you
`
`gave the U.S. Attorney's Office?
`
` A. They've reported to me lots of
`
`stuff, but I -- you know, I don't know the
`
`details.
`
` Q. I see. So you have no idea what
`
`you gave the U.S. Attorney's Office --
`
`Hermitage gave the U.S. Attorney's Office in
`
`response to their request; is that right?
`
` MR. KIM: Objection to form.
`
` MR. CYMROT: Yeah, I'll restate
`
` it.
`
` Q. You have no idea what Mr. Kleiner
`
`gave to the U.S. Attorney's Office in response
`
`to their request; is that correct?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And he didn't tell you at the time?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 24 of 386
`
`Page 24
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
` A. He told me he was in conversations,
`
`but he didn't tell me specifically what he was
`
`providing.
`
` Q. Did he tell you what the substance
`
`of the conversations was?
`
` A. Just backing up different parts of
`
`the Complaint.
`
` Q. What parts of the Complaint?
`
` A. I don't know.
`
` Q. Did you see a draft of the
`
`Complaint before it was filed?
`
` A. I think we might have, but I can't
`
`remember for sure.
`
` Q. Did you tell the U.S. Attorney's
`
`Office that the allegations in the Complaint
`
`were accurate as far as you knew?
`
` A. I was never asked or never told.
`
` Q. Did you ever see anything that you
`
`saw in -- you've read the Complaint, correct?
`
` A. I have.
`
` Q. And did you see anything that --
`
`that you felt was inaccurate?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. So as far as you're concerned,
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 25 of 386
`
`Page 25
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
`everything in the original Complaint was
`
`accurate?
`
` A. It seemed to me that it was
`
`accurate. I should point out that some --
`
`there -- there are parts of the Complaint that
`
`I wasn't familiar with that I wouldn't -- not
`
`know about.
`
` Q. But the parts that you were
`
`familiar with, as far as you're concerned is
`
`accurate?
`
` A. The parts I was familiar with
`
`are -- I was thinking is accurate.
`
` Q. For instance, Mr. Magnitsky is an
`
`attorney; you think that's accurate?
`
` A. He was my attorney.
`
` Q. He was your attorney?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Acting as --
`
` A. Acting in court representing me.
`
` Q. I see. And he had a law degree in
`
`Russia?
`
` A. I'm not aware that he did.
`
` Q. I see. And -- and he had -- he
`
`went to law school?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 26 of 386
`
`Page 26
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. He didn't go to law school, he
`
`didn't have a law degree, but he was your
`
`lawyer?
`
` A. And he represented me in court.
`
` Q. I see.
`
` A. I should say represented Hermitage
`
`Fund Companies in court.
`
` Q. Okay. And he did other work; he
`
`gave you advice on taxes?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. And he was given a power of
`
`attorney to do certain things for certain of
`
`your companies, correct?
`
` A. I believe so.
`
` Q. All right. So he acted not just as
`
`an attorney, he acted in other capacities?
`
` MR. KIM: Objection to form.
`
` Q. Do you know who drafted the
`
`Complaint?
`
` A. I would imagine that the U.S.
`
`attorney drafted the Complaint.
`
` Q. And you had no idea what
`
`investigation the U.S. attorney did beyond the
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 27 of 386
`
`Page 27
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
`information that you and Mr. Kleiner gave to
`
`the U.S. attorney?
`
` A. I don't work in the U.S. Attorney's
`
`Office.
`
` Q. Well, you're aware that Mr. Hyman
`
`says that's the investigation that was done,
`
`took documents from your company, talked to
`
`you and Mr. Kleiner, so this case arises from
`
`your information; that's news to you?
`
` A. I don't understand the question.
`
` Q. You didn't understand when the
`
`Complaint was being filed that it was based
`
`upon information that you and Mr. Kleiner
`
`provided to the U.S. Attorney's Office?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. You understood that?
`
` A. Yeah.
`
` Q. All right. Let me show you the
`
`Complaint we're talking about that I'll mark
`
`as Browder Exhibit 2. It's a Verified
`
`Complaint. It was filed on
`
`September 10, 2013.
`
` (Browder Exhibit 2, Verified
`
` Complaint, Filed on 9/10/13 was marked
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 28 of 386
`
`Page 28
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
` for identification, as of this date.)
`
` BY MR. CYMROT:
`
` Q. So Exhibit 2 is the Complaint we've
`
`been talking about, correct?
`
` A. This?
`
` Q. Yes.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And that's the Complaint that you
`
`read and saw nothing inaccurate in it; is that
`
`right?
`
` MR. KIM: Objection to form.
`
` Q. You could answer.
`
` A. Sorry?
`
` MR. KIM: When I say objection to
`
` form, that doesn't mean don't answer;
`
` it's just a legal objection I'm
`
` stating to the form of the question.
`
` THE WITNESS: Right.
`
` A. If -- if we go back to what I said
`
`before, the parts of the Complaint that I'm
`
`familiar with are accurate.
`
` Q. And we're talking about that
`
`Complaint, Exhibit 2, right?
`
` A. Correct.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 29 of 386
`
`Page 29
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
` Q. Going back to Exhibit 1, which is
`
`the letter to the D.A.'s office, all right?
`
` If you take a look at Tab 8.
`
` A. Tab A?
`
` Q. Eight.
`
` A. Eight.
`
` Q. Can you tell us what these
`
`documents are, the cover says "Bank
`
`Transactions"?
`
` A. Yeah.
`
` Q. By the way, if you find some
`
`illegible, that's because that's the way it
`
`was produced to us.
`
` So let's start with '3128096. Can
`
`you tell me what that is?
`
` A. Where is this?
`
` Q. It's the first document. If you
`
`look at the lower right-hand corner, it has
`
`numbers.
`
` A. I don't know.
`
` Q. Well, who put these documents
`
`together?
`
` A. My team.
`
` Q. Who on your team?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 30 of 386
`
`Page 30
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
` A. My lawyers, Vadim Kleiner.
`
` Q. And which lawyers?
`
` A. My -- I've got a team of Russian
`
`lawyers. I think Neil nickel weight was
`
`involved, his people on his team.
`
` Q. Okay. So you have no idea what
`
`this is, it says "Refund decision"; you have
`
`no idea what it is?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. And page '97, '097, "Refund
`
`decision," you have no idea what that is?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. '98, '99, going all the way through
`
`'102, you have no idea what they are?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. So when it comes to a document
`
`that's in Russian -- do you read Russian?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Who do you rely upon if the
`
`translation is in Russian?
`
` A. I have a team of people who are
`
`Russian nationals.
`
` Q. Working in Hermitage?
`
` A. Yep.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 31 of 386
`
`Page 31
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
` Q. And where are they, in London?
`
` A. Yep.
`
` Q. Okay. So --
`
` A. I should say working in Hermitage
`
`or external counsel from Russia.
`
` Q. Right. So you have no idea what
`
`this is?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Is it an official Russian document?
`
` A. I don't know.
`
` Q. Do you know how you obtained it?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. No idea?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Do you know whether it's fake?
`
` A. I would assume it's real.
`
` Q. But you have any -- any idea
`
`whether it's fake?
`
` A. I don't think my team would have
`
`put together fake documents.
`
` Q. But you don't know?
`
` A. I trust my team to put together
`
`real documents.
`
` Q. Do you know where they got them?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Case 1:13-cv-06326-TPG Document 281-1 Filed 05/13/15 Page 32 of 386
`
`Page 32
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` WILLIAM F. BROWDER (4/15/15)
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Do you know whether they stole
`
`them?
`
` A. I don't think my team -- no. No,
`
`they didn't steal them.
`
` Q. Do you know whether they bribed
`
`somebody to get them?
`
` A. They didn't bribe anybody to get
`
`them.
`
` MR. KIM: Sorry. Objection to
`
` form. What's the "them" we're talking
`
` about.
`
` MR. CYMROT: '103, '104, 105 are
`
` examples.
`
` Q. Do you have any idea?
`
` A. '104; nobody bribed anybody, we
`
`haven't bribed anybody.
`
` Q. Well, Mr. Kleiner says he has
`
`contacts within Moscow -- this is in your
`
`books, he has contacts within Moscow and then
`
`he shows up with some documents, right?
`
` MR. KIM: Objection to form.
`
` Q. Central Ban