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`Page 1
` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE NEW YORK
` COUNTY OF NEW YORK
`
` PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF : Index No.
` NEW YORK, : 452564/2022
` Plaintiff, :
` :
` v. :
` :
` DONALD J. TRUMP, et al., :
` Defendant. :
` ------------------------ :
`
` VIDEOTAPE DEPOSITION OF:
` STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` NEW YORK, NEW YORK
` WEDNESDAY, JULY 19, 2023
`
` REPORTED BY:
` SILVIA P. WAGE, CCR, CRR, RPR
`
`212-267-6868
`
`516-608-2400
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Page 2
` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
`
` July 19, 2023
` 9:53 a.m.
` Videotape deposition of STEVEN LAPOSA,
` Ph.D., held at the OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY
` GENERAL, 28 Liberty Street, Sheila Abdus-Salaam
` Conference Room, 16th Floor, New York, New York,
` pursuant to agreement before SILVIA P. WAGE, a
` Certified Shorthand Reporter, Certified Realtime
` Reporter, Registered Professional Reporter, and
` Notary Public for the States of New Jersey, New
` York and Pennsylvania.
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` A P P E A R A N C E S:
` OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
` Attorneys for Plaintiff
` 28 Liberty Street
` New York, New York 10005
` (212) 416-6127
` Louis.solomon@ag.ny.gov
` Wil.handley@ag.ny.gov
` Kevin.wallace@ag.ny.gov
` Alex.finkelstein@ag.ny.gov
` Colleen.faherty@ag.ny.gov
` Andrew.amer@ag.ny.gov
` Stephanie.torre@ag.ny.gov
` Sherief.gaber@ag.ny.gov
` BY: LOUIS SOLOMON, ESQ.
` BY: WIL HANDLEY, ESQ.
` BY: MARK LADOV, ESQ. (VIA WEBEX)
` BY: KEVIN WALLACE, ESQ. (VIA WEBEX)
` BY: ALEX FINKELSTEIN, ESQ. (VIA WEBEX)
` ROBERT & ROBERT PLLC
` Attorneys for Donald J. Trump, Donald Trump,
` Jr., and local Counsel for Ivanka Trump
` 526 RXR PLAZA
` Uniondale, New York 11556
` (516) 832-7000
` Crobert@robertlaw.com
` BY: CLIFFORD ROBERT, ESQ.
` HABBA MADAIO & ASSOCIATES LLP
` Attorneys for Defendant Donald Trump, the Trump
` Organization, Allen Weisselberg and Jeff McConney
` 1430 US Highway 206, Suite 130
` Bedminster, New Jersey 07921
` (908) 869-1188
` Pswift@habbalaw.com
` BY: PETER SWIFT, ESQ. (VIA WEBEX)
`
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` A P P E A R A N C E S (C O N T).:
` CONTINENTAL PLLC
` Attorneys for Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust,
` DJT Holdings LLC, DJT Holding Managing Member,
` Trump Endeavor 12 LLC, 401 North Wabash Venture
` LLC, Trump Old Post Office LLC, 40 Wall Street
` LLC, Seven Spring LLC
` 101 North Monroe Street, Suite 750
` Tallahassee, Florida 32301
` Ckise@continentalpllc.com
` Jhernandez@continentalpllc.com
` BY: JENNIFER HERNANDEZ, ESQ. (VIA WEBEX)
`
` A L S O P R E S E N T:
` SAMANTHA STERN, LEGAL SUPPORT ANALYST
` OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
` NATHANIEL ARMSTRONG, VIDEOGRAPHER
` (VIA ZOOM)
` JOHN DiFILIPPO, VIDEOGRAPHER
`
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` I N D E X
` WITNESS: STEVEN P. LAPOSA, Ph.D. PAGE
` EXAMINATION BY MR. SOLOMON 12
` E X H I B I T S
` NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
` Exhibit Laposa 1 Summary of Opinions of 26
` Steven Laposa, Ph.D.,
` May 26, 2023
` Exhibit Laposa 2 Expert Rebuttal Report 27
` of Steven Laposa, Ph.D.,
` June 3026, 2023
` Exhibit Laposa 3 Page 54 from the 15th 73
` Edition of the
` "Appraisal of Real
` Estate,"
` Exhibit Laposa 4 FASB Authoritative 88
` "Master Glossary -
` Estimated Current Value
` Exhibit Laposa 5 excerpt from the 15th 132
` Edition of "The
` Appraisal of Real
` Estate,"
` Exhibit Laposa 6 FASB Authoritative 154
` 274-10-00 - General
` Exhibit Laposa 7 Verified Complaint 175
` Exhibit #6, Donald J.
` Trump Statement of
` Financial Condition June
` 30, 2014
` MAZARS-NYAG-00000714 to
` marked FOIA/FOIL
` Confidential Treatment
` Requested
` Exhibit Laposa 8 Form 8283 MLB_EM00003790 184
` & MLB_EM00003792 marked
` FOIL Exempt/Highly
` Confidential
`
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`Page 6
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` E X H I B I T S
` NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
` Exhibit Laposa 9 excerpt of Appraisal of 186
` Real Property Seven
` Springs Estate as of
` December 1, 2015
` prepared by Cushman &
` Wakefield MLB_EM 3790
` through 3792
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` - - -
` DEPOSITION SUPPORT INDEX
` - - -
`
` Direction to Witness Not to Answer
` Page Line
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` 19 2
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` Request for Production of Documents
` Page Line
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` Stipulations
` Page Line
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` 12 2
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` Question Marked
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` Reservation
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` Motion to Strike
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. We 09:53:18
` are now going on the record at 9:53 a.m. Eastern 09:53:31
` Daylight time on July 19, 2023. 09:53:35
` Please note that this deposition is 09:53:38
` being conducted virtually. Quality of the 09:53:40
` recording depends on the quality of camera and 09:53:43
` Internet connection of participants. What is 09:53:46
` seen from the witness and heard on screen is what 09:53:48
` will be recorded. 09:53:50
` Audio and video recording will 09:53:52
` continue to take place unless all parties agree 09:53:54
` to go off the record. 09:53:56
` This is Media Unit 1 of the video 09:53:57
` recorded deposition of Steven Laposa taken by 09:54:00
` Counsel for Plaintiff in the matter of People 09:54:03
` versus Donald J. Trump filed in the Supreme Court 09:54:07
` of the State of New York, County of New York, 09:54:10
` People of the State of New York, Index 09:54:13
` No. 452564/2002 [sic]. 09:54:19
` My name is Nathaniel Armstrong 09:54:22
` representing Veritext and I am the Videographer. 09:54:24
` The Court Reporter is Silvia Wage 09:54:28
` also representing Veritext. 09:54:30
` I am not authorized to administer an 09:54:31
`
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` oath. I'm not related to any party in this 09:54:35
` action. Nor am I financially interested in the 09:54:37
` outcome. 09:54:40
` If there are any objections to 09:54:40
` proceeding, please state them at the time of your 09:54:42
` appearance. 09:54:44
` Counsel and all present including 09:54:45
` remotely will now state their appearance and 09:54:47
` affiliation for the record beginning with the 09:54:49
` noticing attorney. 09:54:51
` MR. SOLOMON: Louis Solomon, Office 09:54:52
` of the Attorney General. With me today are -- in 09:54:56
` the room -- are Will Handley, who is an attorney, 09:55:00
` and Samantha Stern, who is an analyst. 09:55:02
` On the screen remotely we have Mark 09:55:06
` Ladov, who is an attorney at the Attorney 09:55:12
` General's office. 09:55:14
` MR. ROBERT: Good morning. Clifford 09:55:16
` Robert the attorney for Eric Trump and Donald J. 09:55:17
` Trump, Junior, as well as for the witness today. 09:55:20
` I see on the screen we have Peter 09:55:22
` Swift from Habba Madio on behalf of certain 09:55:25
` Defendants and Jennifer Hernandez is observing. 09:55:27
` She's not admitted in New York, but she's on the 09:55:30
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` screen. And throughout the day Christopher Kise 09:55:33
` will be joining the video as well. 09:55:35
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you, 09:55:38
` Counsel. 09:55:39
` Your audio was a little low. So, as 09:55:39
` we proceed, please try and get a little closer to 09:55:42
` the mic. 09:55:46
` That said can you please swear or 09:55:47
` affirm the witness. 09:55:51
` THE STENOGRAPHER: Sir, if you can
` please raise your right hand, so I can administer
` the oath.
` STEVEN P. LAPOSA, Ph.D.,
` Ankura, 909 Fannin Street, Suite 2450,
` Houston, Texas 77010, after having been
` duly sworn, was examined and testified as
` follows: 09:55:59
` THE STENOGRAPHER: Thank you. 09:55:59
` You may proceed. 09:56:00
` MR. SOLOMON: Good morning, Dr. 09:56:01
` Laposa. 09:56:04
` Just a few things for the record, 09:56:05
` some housekeeping matters. 09:56:07
` We are proceeding today at the outset 09:56:08
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` by remote video as a result of Veritext failing 09:56:13
` to have a Videographer here when scheduled. It 09:56:16
` is not the fault of either any of the Defendants 09:56:21
` or the Plaintiff in this matter. 09:56:24
` Counsel have agreed to proceed with 09:56:26
` the remote video at the outset and when the 09:56:29
` Videographer arrives, we will take a break at the 09:56:32
` appropriate time and we will then have the 09:56:35
` Videographer set up and use his services then. 09:56:37
` Is that acceptable, Counsel? 09:56:42
` MR. ROBERT: Yes, sir. 09:56:43
` MR. SOLOMON: Okay. Second, I just 09:56:46
` want to note on the read in it was on the 09:56:48
` numbering for the Index Number, the Videographer 09:56:52
` that's working currently said, "2002." It's 09:56:55
` actually 2022. 09:56:58
` [STIPULATION] Third, there is a 09:57:00
` stipulation in this case that governs expert 09:57:02
` witnesses. We are proceeding in accordance with 09:57:05
` the prior agreements as reflected in such 09:57:07
` stipulation; is that correct, Counsel? 09:57:11
` MR. ROBERT: Stipulation and order. 09:57:14
` MR. SOLOMON: Stipulation and order. 09:57:15
` Thank you; so ordered by the court. 09:57:16
`
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` [STIPULATION] We also agreed for ease 09:57:18
` of the record that an objection by one Defense 09:57:20
` Counsel shall constitute an objection by all 09:57:23
` Defense Counsel to any of my questions here 09:57:27
` today. 09:57:29
` MR. ROBERT: Agreed. 09:57:31
` MR. SOLOMON: Are there any other 09:57:32
` housekeeping matters before we... 09:57:34
` MR. ROBERT: I don't believe so, Mr. 09:57:36
` Solomon. 09:57:38
` MR. SOLOMON: Thank you, Counsel. 09:57:38
` EXAMINATION BY MR. SOLOMON: 09:57:39
` Q. Please state your name and business 09:57:39
` address for the record. 09:57:41
` A. It's Steven Laposa. The business 09:57:43
` address -- I will need to refer -- is at 909 09:57:47
` Fannin Street, Suite 2450, Houston, Texas 77010. 09:58:03
` Q. Thank you. 09:58:10
` You looked that up in your expert 09:58:10
` report in this case. 09:58:14
` A. Correct. 09:58:14
` Q. Okay. Just so the record is clear, 09:58:15
` because I'm not confident in the video 09:58:17
` capabilities of Veritext at the moment, as I'm 09:58:20
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` sure you can appreciate. 09:58:22
` Have you testified under oath before? 09:58:24
` A. Yes. 09:58:25
` Q. Okay. So I don't need to explain the 09:58:26
` process to you. But I just want to go over a 09:58:28
` couple of short ground rules, just to have 09:58:30
` today's session move as quickly as possible and 09:58:32
` we have an -- ensure an appropriate record. 09:58:35
` In order to have a clear record, I 09:58:37
` ask that you allow me to finish each question 09:58:40
` before you begin your answer. And I will try to 09:58:42
` make sure that you have finished your answer 09:58:45
` before I ask my next question. 09:58:47
` If at any point in time I start a 09:58:48
` question or I cut you off, please tell me, okay? 09:58:51
` A. Yes. 09:58:54
` Q. Thank you. 09:58:54
` If at any point you do not understand 09:58:55
` a question that I ask, please let me know. I 09:58:58
` will attempt to explain it or rephrase it. 09:59:01
` If you answer a question, I and 09:59:04
` anyone reading this transcript will assume you 09:59:06
` understood my question; is that acceptable? 09:59:08
` A. Yes. 09:59:11
`
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` Q. Okay. We will plan to take breaks at 09:59:11
` appropriate times. If you need a break before 09:59:15
` then, just let me know. And as long as there is 09:59:16
` no pending question, we will try to accommodate 09:59:19
` you as soon as possible. 09:59:21
` What, if anything, did you do to 09:59:23
` prepare for your testimony here today? 09:59:25
` A. In order to prepare for my testimony 09:59:28
` today, I reviewed my expert report of May 26th 09:59:31
` and June 30th, the rebuttal, as well as I prepped 09:59:37
` with the Counsel on -- over the weekend for an 09:59:44
` hour and I also had breakfast this morning with 09:59:47
` Cliff. 09:59:51
` Q. That's Mr. Robert sitting next to 09:59:55
` you? 09:59:57
` A. Mr. Robert. 09:59:57
` Q. You said you reviewed your expert 09:59:58
` report and rebuttal report; is that correct? 10:00:00
` A. That's correct. 10:00:01
` Q. Did you review any other documents? 10:00:02
` A. I reviewed the Korologos rebuttal and 10:00:05
` also the Hirsh. 10:00:12
` Q. When you say "the Hirsh"? 10:00:16
` A. Rebuttal. 10:00:17
`
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` Q. Hirsh rebuttal report. 10:00:18
` Did you review any other documents? 10:00:19
` A. No. 10:00:22
` Q. You said you met with Counsel over 10:00:24
` the weekend, which Counsel? 10:00:26
` A. There were a number of them on a Zoom 10:00:28
` call Sunday morning. Mr. Robert was there. 10:00:31
` There were some attorneys down in Florida. Chris 10:00:37
` was there. 10:00:40
` Q. That's Mr. Kise? 10:00:44
` A. Yes, sorry. 10:00:46
` Q. No, no, quite alright, sir. Not a 10:00:47
` problem. I just say that so the record is clear 10:00:49
` because -- 10:00:53
` A. You're right. 10:00:54
` Q. -- that's my preference. 10:00:54
` On this Zoom call, was there anyone 10:00:57
` on the call that was not an attorney, to your 10:01:00
` knowledge? 10:01:06
` A. Yes. 10:01:06
` Q. Who? 10:01:07
` A. There was two people within Ankura. 10:01:08
` Q. And who were those people? 10:01:16
` A. There was a Mr. Fowler and Mr. Brown. 10:01:19
`
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`FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 09/08/2023 10:17 AM
`NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1396
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`INDEX NO. 452564/2022
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`RECEIVED NYSCEF: 09/08/2023
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` Q. Who was Mr. Fowler? 10:01:26
` A. Scott Fowler is with Ankura. And 10:01:28
` William Brown is also with Ankura. 10:01:34
` Q. Do you know Mr. Fowler's role at 10:01:38
` Ankura? 10:01:41
` A. He's a Senior Managing Director. 10:01:42
` Q. Does he have an area of specialty? 10:01:47
` A. He has -- he is an MAI. He has a CRE 10:01:50
` designation. He also has an FRICS designation as 10:01:56
` well. 10:02:05
` Q. And do you know Mr. -- is it Brown, 10:02:06
` William Brown? 10:02:10
` A. Yes. 10:02:11
` Q. Mr. Brown's role at Ankura? 10:02:11
` A. He's also a Senior Managing Director. 10:02:14
` Q. And do you know if he has a 10:02:16
` specialty? 10:02:18
` A. He has a specialty in appraisal 10:02:19
` reviews. I do not believe he is an MAI. 10:02:22
` Q. Did Mr. Fowler or Mr. Brown speak at 10:02:31
` anytime during this Zoom call? 10:02:34
` A. I believe they did. I can't remember 10:02:41
` anything specifically they said, but, yes, they 10:02:43
` did. 10:02:46
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` Q. Do you remember anything generally 10:02:46
` that they said? 10:02:48
` MR. ROBERT: I'm going to instruct 10:02:52
` the witness that that is a yes or no answer. 10:02:53
` MR. SOLOMON: Yes. It was a yes or 10:02:56
` no question. 10:02:58
` MR. ROBERT: I just want it to be 10:02:58
` clear, just as far as our existing order. I got 10:03:00
` it. 10:03:02
` A. Can you repeat that question then? 10:03:02
` Q. Sure. 10:03:03
` You said you don't, specifically, 10:03:04
` remember anything that Mr. Fowler or Mr. Brown 10:03:05
` said during this call; is that accurate? 10:03:08
` A. That's accurate. 10:03:09
` Q. Okay. Then I asked you do you 10:03:10
` remember generally what they may have -- what 10:03:12
` they said during this call? It's a yes or no 10:03:15
` question. 10:03:17
` A. Yes, with some limitations but, yes. 10:03:19
` Q. Okay. Can you tell me the general 10:03:22
` subject areas that they spoke about? 10:03:25
` A. They primarily spoke about my report. 10:03:28
` Q. Did anything either of them said have 10:03:34
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` any influence on any of your potential testimony 10:03:39
` here today? 10:03:41
` A. No. 10:03:44
` Q. Did anything either of them said 10:03:45
` refresh your recollection about anything in your 10:03:48
` report? 10:03:50
` A. No. 10:03:52
` Q. Did anything either of them said 10:03:53
` refresh your recollection about anything related 10:03:57
` to the pending litigation? 10:03:59
` A. No. 10:04:02
` Q. Okay. Before you answer my next 10:04:03
` question, please wait and give your Counsel an 10:04:11
` opportunity, okay? 10:04:13
` What did they say during this call? 10:04:15
` MR. ROBERT: Objection. 10:04:17
` [INSTRUCTION] Under the terms of our 10:04:19
` order that's in place, the conversations that 10:04:20
` were had with Counsel are subject to privilege. 10:04:22
` MR. SOLOMON: Understood. I'm asking 10:04:26
` about the conversations, though, and what was 10:04:27
` said by Mr. Fowler and Mr. Brown -- 10:04:28
` MR. ROBERT: They are -- 10:04:30
` MR. SOLOMON: -- just for clarity. 10:04:31
`
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`FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 09/08/2023 10:17 AM
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` MR. ROBERT: [INSTRUCTION] And, for 10:04:33
` clarification for you, sir, they are experts that 10:04:33
` are retained by consulting experts to attorneys 10:04:35
` in this matter. So, therefore, would fall under 10:04:38
` the confidentiality of our order, sir. 10:04:40
` MR. SOLOMON: Okay. 10:04:42
` MR. ROBERT: And I appreciate the way 10:04:44
` you prefaced that so we can proceed. 10:04:45
` MR. SOLOMON: Of course. I'm not 10:04:48
` here to trick anyone. 10:04:58
` Q. I believe you met -- excuse me 10:04:58
` withdrawn. 10:04:59
` I believe you testified that the Zoom 10:05:00
` call lasted, approximately, one hour? 10:05:02
` A. Correct. 10:05:04
` Q. And that was this past weekend? 10:05:04
` A. Correct. 10:05:06
` Q. Was that the only time other than 10:05:06
` breakfast today that you met with Counsel for 10:05:10
` purposes of preparing for your testimony here 10:05:13
` today? 10:05:14
` A. Those are the only times. 10:05:14
` Q. Okay. Did you meet with anyone else 10:05:16
` in connection with your testimony or preparation 10:05:18
`
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`FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 09/08/2023 10:17 AM
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` for your testimony here today? 10:05:20
` A. No. 10:05:22
` Q. Have you discussed the substance of 10:05:23
` your deposition testimony with anyone apart from 10:05:26
` the individuals you've already identified? 10:05:28
` A. Can I ask you to clarify that 10:05:37
` question? 10:05:39
` Q. Of course. 10:05:39
` What portion don't you understand, 10:05:40
` sir? 10:05:42
` A. It sounds like you said if I talked 10:05:42
` to anyone about my deposition testimony, which is 10:05:45
` today present tense in the past. Did I 10:05:49
` misunderstand that? 10:05:53
` Q. I will clarify. Thank you. 10:05:54
` Have you discussed the potential 10:05:56
` substance of your deposition testimony with 10:06:00
` anyone other than the individuals you've already 10:06:03
` identified? 10:06:06
` A. No. 10:06:07
` Q. Okay. Who retained -- withdrawn. 10:06:07
` You're serving as an expert witness 10:06:12
` in this case, correct? 10:06:14
` A. Correct. 10:06:16
`
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`FILED: NEW YORK COUNTY CLERK 09/08/2023 10:17 AM
`NYSCEF DOC. NO. 1396
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`INDEX NO. 452564/2022
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`RECEIVED NYSCEF: 09/08/2023
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`Page 21
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` CONFIDENTIAL - STEVEN LAPOSA, Ph.D.
` Q. Who asked you to services as an 10:06:16
` expert witness? 10:06:18
` A. Continental. 10:06:19
` Q. And do you have a written retainer 10:06:22
` agreement with Continental? 10:06:24
` A. I have not seen it, but it's through 10:06:26
` Ankura. 10:06:28
` Q. And let me take a step back. 10:06:31
` Were you individually
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