William Briese - 9/5/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
`
` 1 UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` 2 BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` 3
`
` 4 ANDERSEN CORPORATION, Case No.
`
` 5 Plaintiff, DER2017-00007
`
` 6 vs. Petitioner Application No.
`
` 7 GED INTEGRATED SOLUTIONS, 15/058,862
`
` 8 INC., Respondent Patent No.
`
` 9 Defendant. 9,428,953
`
` 10 - - - - -
`
` 11 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF WILLIAM BRIESE
`
` 12 Taken on Wednesday, September 5th, 2018, at 9:00 o'clock a.m.
`
` 13
`
` 14 At The Offices Of:
`
` 15 Baker Hostetler
`
` 16 127 Public Square
`
` 17 Key Tower, Suite 2000
`
` 18 Cleveland, Ohio 44114
`
` 19
`
` 20 Before Melissa Cruz, a Court Reporter and Notary Public
`
` 21 in and for the State of Ohio
`
` 22 - - - - -
`
` 23
`
` 24
`
` 25
`
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 | info@depointernational.com
`
`Page 1 (1)
`
`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1057 - Page 1
`
`

`

`William Briese - 9/5/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
`
` 1 APPEARANCES:
`
` 2
`
` 3 On behalf of the Petitioner:
`
` 4 Robins Kaplan LLP, by
`
` 5 CYRUS A. MORTON, ESQ.
`
` 6 800 LaSalle Avenue
`
` 7 2800 LaSalle Plaza
`
` 8 Minneapolis, MN 55402
`
` 9 (612) 349-8722
`
` 10 Cmorton@robinskaplan.com
`
` 11
`
` 12 On behalf of the Defendant:
`
` 13 Baker Hostetler, by
`
` 14 TOM SHUNK, ESQ.
`
` 15 Key Tower
`
` 16 127 Public Square, Suite 2000
`
` 17 Cleveland, Ohio 44114
`
` 18 (216) 861-7592
`
` 19 Tshunk@bakerlaw.com
`
` 20
`
` 21
`
` 22
`
` 23
`
` 24
`
` 25
`
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 | info@depointernational.com
`
`Page 2 (2)
`
`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1057 - Page 2
`
`

`

`William Briese - 9/5/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
`
` 1 APPEARANCES CONTINUED:
`
` 2
`
` 3 Tarolli, Sundheim, Covell & Tummino, LLP, by
`
` 4 JOHN A. YIRGA, ESQ.
`
` 5 SAMANTHA R. SMART, ESQ.
`
` 6 1300 East Ninth Street, Suite 1700
`
` 7 Cleveland, Ohio 44114
`
` 8 (216) 621-2234 ext. 135
`
` 9 jyirga@tarolli.com
`
` 10 Ssmart@tarolli.com
`
` 11 ----
`
` 12 ALSO PRESENT:
`
` 13 Shelley R. Gilliss, PH.D.
`
` 14 Frank Stanek, Videographer
`
` 15 ----
`
` 16
`
` 17
`
` 18
`
` 19
`
` 20
`
` 21
`
` 22
`
` 23
`
` 24
`
` 25
`
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 | info@depointernational.com
`
`Page 3 (3)
`
`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1057 - Page 3
`
`

`

`William Briese - 9/5/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
` 1 VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now on the
` 1 a jury. You have to tell the truth?
` 2 A. I am aware of that.
` 2 record. This is the videotaped -- or this is the
` 3 videographer Frank Stanek speaking here on behalf
` 3 Q. Is there any reason you'd have
` 4 of Depo International. Today is September 5th,
` 4 difficulty hearing or understanding my questions
` 5 2018. The time is 9:03 a.m. We are at 127
` 5 today and giving truthful and complete answers?
` 6 A. No.
` 6 Public Square, Suite 2000 in Cleveland, Ohio to
` 7 take the videotaped deposition of William Briese
` 7 Q. You're not on any medications, you
` 8 in the matter of Andersen Corporation versus GED
` 8 don't have any hearing loss, nothing like that?
` 9 A. No.
` 9 Integrated Solutions Incorporated in the United
`10 States Patent and Trademark Office Before the
`10 Q. Okay. We do need audible complete
`11 Patent Trial and Appeal Board, Case
`11 answers whether you like them or not so the court
`12 DER2017-00007.
`12 reporter can get them down, okay?
`13 A. Okay.
`13 Will counsel please identify
`14 themselves for the video record?
`14 Q. In your participation in this
`15 MR. MORTON: Hi. This is Cy Morton
`15 lawsuit, did you spend any time looking for
`16 from Robins Kaplan on behalf of Andersen
`16 documents?
`17 A. Yes, I did.
`17 Corporation. With me also from Robins Kaplan is
`18 Shelley Gilliss and from Andersen, Kate Graham.
`18 Q. And what did you do in terms of
`19 MR. SHUNK: I am Tom Shunk, Baker
`19 looking for documents that might be relevant?
`20 A. I looked in the likely places that
`20 Hostetler for GED. With me are John Yirga and
`21 those documents would have been located had they
`21 Samantha Smart from the Tarroll firm and Timothy
`22 existed.
`22 McGlinchy from GED is the corporate
`23 representative.
`23 Q. Okay. So did you look for e-mails?
`24 A. Yes.
`24 VIDEOGRAPHER: And will the court
`25 reporter please swear in the witness?
`25 Q. Did you find any relevant e-mails?
`
`Page 4
` 1 WILLIAM BRIESE, of lawful age, called
` 2 for examination, as provided by the Ohio Rules of
` 3 Civil Procedure, being by me first duly sworn, as
` 4 hereinafter certified, deposed and said as
` 5 follows:
` 6 EXAMINATION OF WILLIAM BRIESE
` 7 BY MR. MORTON:
` 8 Q. Good morning, Mr. Briese.
` 9 A. Morning.
`10 Q. First, I want to make sure I got that
`11 right. Is it Briese or Briese?
`12 A. Briese.
`13 Q. Briese, okay. Have you had your
`14 deposition taken before?
`15 A. No, I have not.
`16 Q. Did you have time to prepare for this
`17 deposition with counsel?
`18 A. Yes.
`19 Q. And who did you prepare with?
`20 A. With the team in front of you.
`21 Q. Okay. And how much time would you
`22 say you prepared for the deposition?
`23 A. Several hours.
`24 Q. And you're aware that you're under
`25 oath just like if you were in front of a judge or
`
`Page 6
` 1 A. The e-mails that I did find have been
` 2 disclosed already as part of this matter.
` 3 Q. Do you know if GED has a document
` 4 retention policy?
` 5 A. No, I'm not aware of that.
` 6 Q. All right. Let's go into your
` 7 background a little bit. Tell me your
` 8 educational background again.
` 9 A. I have a bachelor of science in
`10 mechanical engineering from General Motors
`11 Institute, which is now called Kettering
`12 University in Michigan.
`13 Q. And what did you do after, after
`14 college?
`15 A. I was -- I worked for a manufacturing
`16 company that fabricated metal containers for
`17 several of the years. I worked for an equipment
`18 manufacturer related to that industry for several
`19 years after that, and then I worked at GED
`20 starting in 1997.
`21 Q. Okay. And when you started at GED,
`22 what was your role or your position?
`23 A. I was the product engineering
`24 manager.
`25 Q. And what are your responsibilities in
`Page 7
`
`Page 5
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 | info@depointernational.com
`
`Page 4 (4 - 7)
`
`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1057 - Page 4
`
`

`

` 1 that role?
` 2 A. Essentially the sustaining, the
` 3 sustenance or the ongoing, keeping our existing
` 4 products that we were manufacturing relevant,
` 5 up-to-date and, you know, sellable as products.
` 6 Q. Okay. And was one of those products
` 7 something called Intercept?
` 8 A. Yes.
` 9 Q. So you've been working on the
`10 Intercept product since 1997?
`11 A. Yes.
`12 Q. How would you describe Intercept sort
`13 of in its totality?
`14 A. It is a spacer frame fabrication
`15 system.
`16 Q. Okay. And what all goes into the
`17 system?
`18 A. Several fabrication pieces of
`19 equipment or subassemblies software to drive the
`20 equipment. And then when the spacer frame is
`21 fabricated from a coil stock of tin plated steel
`22 or stainless steel, it gets a sealant applied to
`23 it and a desiccant matrix.
`24 Q. Okay. Can you break it down just a
`25 little farther and just tell me each subassembly
`Page 8
`
`William Briese - 9/5/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
` 1 applied, what happens?
` 2 A. That is where the first operator's
` 3 station is. The spacer with the sealant and
` 4 desiccant matrix, once that's applied, heads down
` 5 a small conveyor belt, and an operator folds it
` 6 into the shape, the rectangle or whatever shape
` 7 was made upstream.
` 8 Q. And just to be clear, the operator,
` 9 that's -- I mean, a human being takes what's been
`10 created and folds it into a rectangle, if that's
`11 what you're working with?
`12 A. Yeah. At the point when it goes
`13 through the extruder, it's an elongated spacer
`14 frame, and then the operator bends it into a
`15 finished shape.
`16 Q. Okay. And once the operator has bent
`17 it into the finished shape, then what? It can be
`18 used in a window?
`19 A. At that point the sealant and the
`20 spacer frame, it's relatively hot so it would be
`21 hung on some hooks on an overhead conveyor and
`22 that increments to an assembly area where
`23 different operators would retrieve that spacer
`24 that's hanging basically from the ceiling or from
`25 overhead and assemble the spacer onto lights or
`Page 10
`
` 1 in the Intercept system?
` 2 A. It starts at uncoiler, where the
` 3 operator or the person running the machine would
` 4 load a coil of material; like I said, steel or
` 5 other metal stainless steel. The metal cascades
` 6 or it accumulates a small bit, and then it goes
` 7 into what we call a feeder press, which does the
` 8 notching of the strip at predetermined locations.
` 9 It goes into then after that another
`10 short accumulation, and then into a roll former,
`11 which takes the flat strip and progressively
`12 bends it in a U channel or the finished cross
`13 sectional space of the spacer. Immediately after
`14 the roll former is a cut-off press that at that
`15 point parts the spacer frame from the coil stock,
`16 and then it proceeds down a conveyor as a spacer
`17 unit, as a spacer frame.
`18 Q. Okay. And what happens next?
`19 A. It proceeds through. There is a
`20 machine that is in line and attached to the
`21 payout conveyer called a hot melt extruder, which
`22 applies the desiccant matrix to the inside of the
`23 U channel and a sealant to the outside of the
`24 U channel.
`25 Q. Okay. And then after the sealant is
`
` 1 panes of glass.
` 2 Q. Okay. And what's the role of the
` 3 spacer frame in the sealant in making a window?
` 4 A. Its primary purpose is to improve
` 5 thermal performance of a window.
` 6 Q. So can you explain that a little bit
` 7 further? How does it do that?
` 8 A. It's the chamber or the cavity
` 9 between the two pieces of glass acts as an
`10 insulator as compared with a single piece of
`11 glass relatively.
`12 Q. Okay. And so that's what you -- one
`13 of the things that you have been working on or
`14 are responsible for since 1997, is that right?
`15 A. That's correct.
`16 Q. And over that time period, since 1997
`17 and let's just go, say the first ten years you
`18 were working on it, did you make any changes to
`19 the system, any adjustments to the basic nature
`20 of the Intercept?
`21 A. Do you mean to the equipment or to
`22 the finished product, the spacer frame itself?
`23 Q. Well, let's start with the -- let's
`24 start with the equipment, subassemblies that you
`25 went through. Any significant changes over your
`Page 11
`
`Page 9
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 | info@depointernational.com
`
`Page 5 (8 - 11)
`
`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1057 - Page 5
`
`

`

`William Briese - 9/5/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
` 1 first ten years of working on Intercept?
` 1 would you typically roll that out to all of your
` 2 MR. SHUNK: Objection to lack of
` 2 customers?
` 3 A. Yes.
` 3 clarity with the word significant, but answer if
` 4 you can.
` 4 Q. This process of getting customer
` 5 A. We were always making continual
` 5 feedback and potentially making changes, did you
` 6 improvements to the machinery, to the equipment
` 6 have any policy or guidelines within GED around
` 7 to make it more manufacturable to receive -- we
` 7 that?
` 8 would receive feedback from customers as to what
` 8 A. In the specific -- like I said, it
` 9 could -- how could the machinery be improved from
` 9 was really just informal feedback through e-mails
`10 our service techs, from all different avenues.
`10 or word of mouth. A service technician might
`11 I was responsible for the, basically,
`11 come back and say, this isn't working properly so
`12 continual improvement of that product.
`12 we need to fix this, or we need to change this a
`13 little bit.
`13 Q. All right. So when you would receive
`14 say feedback from customers as you said, can you
`14 Q. I get that. And I'm just asking in
`15 describe that a little further? What would
`15 order to kind of control the intake of that
`16 happen, what would you do if you got a comment or
`16 information, did you or through your superiors
`17 a request from a customer?
`17 have a policy or a frame work or any way that you
`18 A. Well, a service technician might be
`18 described your customer response policy?
`19 installing a new piece of equipment, and I'm not
`19 A. There was a -- basically an Excel
`20 speaking specifically of Intercept, but that
`20 spreadsheet that we maintained that just
`21 would get fed back through a mechanism, and we
`21 basically aggregated change by machine.
`22 would evaluate its merit.
`22 We would categorize it by machine,
`23 and as we would have time to make an improvement
`23 Q. Okay. What do you mean, fed back
`24 to a machine or a, one of the product lines, we
`24 through a mechanism?
`25 A. E-mails, post installation wrap-up
`25 would evaluate the merit --
`
`Page 12
`
`Page 14
`
` 1 meetings between service personnel and
` 2 engineering.
` 3 Q. Okay. So if you receive feedback
` 4 from a customer and it came through your process
` 5 and you thought that that idea had merit, what
` 6 would you do?
` 7 MR. SHUNK: Objection to speculation,
` 8 but answer if you can.
` 9 A. I would evaluate its merit and decide
`10 whether it was worthy of proceeding any further
`11 with it.
`12 Q. All right. And if you had a change,
`13 something that came from a customer that you
`14 decided did have merit, is that something that
`15 you would implement and roll out to all of your
`16 customers if it was a good ideas?
`17 MR. SHUNK: Same objection. Go ahead
`18 and answer.
`19 A. I'm not sure. Could you rephrase
`20 that or I'm not sure that -- just repeat the
`21 question for me.
`22 Q. Sure. I just asked if you had an
`23 idea from a customer that you thought had merit
`24 to change, make some change to the Intercept
`25 system, if you were to implement that change,
`Page 13
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 | info@depointernational.com
`
` 1 Q. Okay.
` 2 A. -- of those changes.
` 3 Q. Have you ever heard it said that GED
` 4 has an open innovation policy?
` 5 A. I've never heard that. I don't know
` 6 what that means.
` 7 Q. Over time on the original Intercept,
` 8 did you make changes to the software that were
` 9 customer driven?
`10 A. No, I did not. That was outside of
`11 the scope of my responsibility at GED.
`12 Q. If there was a change to software
`13 that was needed or suggested, what would you do
`14 with such a request?
`15 MR. SHUNK: Objection to speculation.
`16 Go ahead.
`17 A. That was normally handled through the
`18 software personnel that were responsible for that
`19 aspect of the product.
`20 Q. Okay. And say in the -- let's break
`21 it up to a couple of time periods.
`22 So when you started in 1997, who was
`23 in charge of the software?
`24 A. Our software manager was Paul Dorsch.
`25 Q. And is that still the software
`
`Page 15
`
`Page 6 (12 - 15)
`
`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1057 - Page 6
`
`

`

`William Briese - 9/5/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
` 1 manager, or is he not there anymore?
` 1 through?
` 2 A. He's not at GED anymore, I don't
` 2 A. From the perspective of making it
` 3 believe.
` 3 more manufacturable, yes.
` 4 Q. Yeah. And so when did it change to
` 4 Q. Okay. Again, can you give me an
` 5 somebody new as software manager?
` 5 example so I can understand what you mean by
` 6 A. I don't know the time frame of when
` 6 that?
` 7 he retired. I couldn't guess as to when he no
` 7 A. I am trying to think of an example.
` 8 longer worked at GED.
` 8 An example is not coming to mind right now. It
` 9 was quite a long time ago.
` 9 Q. Okay. Well, who's the next software
`10 manager that you remember?
`10 Q. Sure. Do you remember making any
`11 A. Tony DiFiore.
`11 significant changes to the punch and dye that's
`12 Q. And do you know when he started in
`12 used with the system?
`13 A. No.
`13 that role?
`14 A. At the time at which Paul Dorsch
`14 Q. When did you start working with Tim
`15 retired. I don't know that time frame.
`15 McGlinchy that's sitting here at counsel table?
`16 A. He hired me in 1997.
`16 Q. Okay. Is it, you know, the mid
`17 2000s?
`17 Q. Has he been your boss since 97 then?
`18 A. I just don't recall. I don't -- I
`18 A. There was a brief period of time
`19 honestly don't recall that time frame.
`19 where he was not my direct supervisor.
`20 Q. All right. Who was the software
`20 Q. But otherwise, yes?
`21 A. Otherwise, yes.
`21 manager in 2009?
`22 A. I don't know.
`22 Q. And how about Cliff, Clifford Weber;
`23 Q. You don't know which of those two
`23 how long have you known him?
`24 A. Since he started working at GED.
`24 guys it was?
`25 A. I just can't recall.
`25 Q. Which was when?
`
`Page 16
`
` 1 Q. But it was one of those two?
` 2 A. It was one of those two guys.
` 3 Q. So if you did make changes to the
` 4 software, what kind of changes did you make to
` 5 the Intercept system in response to customer
` 6 request?
` 7 MR. SHUNK: Objection. Speculation.
` 8 Go ahead.
` 9 A. The majority, if not all, of the
`10 changes I made to the Intercept were to make it
`11 as a machine or as a product more manufacturable.
`12 Q. Okay. So I can understand that
`13 better, can you give me some examples?
`14 A. Essentially when I was hired, the
`15 Intercept machine was young. It was a relatively
`16 new product, and the drawings were lacking
`17 detail, ambiguity in some of the specifications
`18 on how to fabricate the parts, and the machines
`19 weren't being built as efficiently as we, or as
`20 GED felt they could have been.
`21 So I was hired to clean up and
`22 streamline the manufacturing and assembly of the
`23 Intercept product.
`24 Q. Okay. Did you make any specific
`25 changes to any of the subassemblies we went
`Page 17
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 | info@depointernational.com
`
`Page 18
` 1 A. I don't have the exact time frame.
` 2 Q. Can you give me your best guess?
` 3 A. I would have to look at my records to
` 4 tell you when Clifford Weber was hired.
` 5 Q. He's still there at GED?
` 6 A. He's still at GED.
` 7 Q. And what's his role or position?
` 8 A. He's an R&D technician.
` 9 Q. Does he report to you?
`10 A. Yes.
`11 Q. Has that always been the case?
`12 A. Yes.
`13 Q. Mr. Briese, I am handing you what's
`14 been marked in this proceeding as Exhibit 1009.
`15 Can you take a look at that document
`16 for me? Do you recognize that document?
`17 A. Yes, I do.
`18 Q. Okay. Can you identify it for the
`19 record?
`20 A. It is the Intercept spacer frame
`21 finished quality specification.
`22 Q. Okay. And what's the purpose of that
`23 document?
`24 A. Just what the title says.
`25 Q. Can you elaborate in your own words?
`Page 19
`
`Page 7 (16 - 19)
`
`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1057 - Page 7
`
`

`

`William Briese - 9/5/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
` 1 A. It is the specific criteria that is
` 1 was a change made somewhere between pages 13 and
` 2 used to fabricate an Intercept spacer frame.
` 2 15, and splay.
` 3 Q. Okay. And the front page, page 1 has
` 3 Q. You don't recall the change you made?
` 4 A. The splay change was made on page 8.
` 4 revision history, do you see that?
` 5 A. Yes.
` 5 I don't have the previous revision to know what
` 6 the old numbers were, and then there was a bow
` 6 Q. These are the changes that were made
` 7 change later in the document, and I don't know if
` 7 up through 2010, it looks like?
` 8 A. I see that.
` 8 it was side bow or up/down bow, but it is
` 9 essentially just tolerancing changes of the same
` 9 Q. Okay. Can you tell me, there is a
`10 exact identical shape. -
`10 revision in 5/13/09 by Roger Eberwein. Can you
`11 tell me what that revision was?
`11 Q. Okay. So the basic design of
`12 A. This was a change or an addition to
`12 Intercept doesn't change --
`13 the specification when the Intercept ULTRA
`13 A. No. The basic design did not change
`14 product was issued or released, which is a
`14 whatsoever.
`15 stainless steel material.
`15 Q. All right. I want to go through, you
`16 Q. Okay. And what specifically is a
`16 know, the original Intercept here and how it
`17 change that had to be made for that?
`17 works, how this document works in a little more
`18 A. It says here, removed tolerances on
`18 detail if you don't mind. If you turn to page 5,
`19 punch detail 3 on page 4 and 5. I am not sure
`19 please?
`20 what that means without looking, without
`20 A. Okay.
`21 comparing this to the previous revision. That's
`21 Q. Can you -- let's just walk through
`22 hard to tell.
`22 the page for starters. What is the first figure
`23 And its swage increase, that would be
`23 at the top of that page?
`24 on page 9, and crimping information.
`24 A. That is an image of the pre-notched
`25 metal strip with the various features that are
`25 Q. So are these the changes that were
`Page 20
` 1 made in order to use the certain type of material
` 2 for the spacer frame?
` 3 A. It's hard to say that definitively
` 4 without looking at the previous revision as to
` 5 what, in comparing the two. I can't say
` 6 definitively or without exception, if that makes
` 7 sense.
` 8 Q. It doesn't make sense to me because I
` 9 don't know this stuff like you do. I'm just
`10 trying to get a feel for what the purpose of this
`11 change was and what was done.
`12 A. Like I said, the essence of this
`13 change revolved around the issuance of a new
`14 material, a new Intercept material type called
`15 ULTRA. That's what this change essentially
`16 represents.
`17 Q. Okay. It's not a change to the basic
`18 design of the spacer frame?
`19 A. No.
`20 Q. All right. And how about the next
`21 revision, which was by you on 8/18/2010? It says
`22 updates splay and bow specification. Can you
`23 explain to me what that change was?
`24 A. Again, I don't know the specifics,
`25 but it's towards the end of the document. There
`Page 21
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 | info@depointernational.com
`
` 1 used to make a spacer frame.
` 2 Q. Okay. What do you mean, pre-notched?
` 3 A. I mean, it's notched before it gets
` 4 roll formed. That's what we refer to as
` 5 pre-notching.
` 6 Q. Okay. So you're -- so what are the
` 7 notches? What are you referring to as notches
` 8 then?
` 9 A. The corners, the tab, the gas holes
`10 and the muntin location of notches.
`11 Q. So you're saying this is showing all
`12 of those. They've already been stamped or
`13 punched or created?
`14 A. All of those features are in this
`15 strip.
`16 Q. Okay. I think -- let's go ahead and
`17 put a mark on this exhibit for 1030, because I
`18 want to have you draw a couple things on there
`19 and it will create a new exhibit.
`20 - - - - -
`21 (Thereupon, Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit-1049
`22 was marked for purposes of identification.)
`23 - - - - -
`24 (Off the record conversation had.)
`25 BY MR. MORTON:
`
`Page 22
`
`Page 23
`
`Page 8 (20 - 23)
`
`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1057 - Page 8
`
`

`

`William Briese - 9/5/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
` 1 on the right, that's the end of that spacer
` 1 Q. Okay. Can we go back to page 5,
` 2 frame?
` 2 Mr. Briese? So can you -- I just want to go
` 3 A. Yes.
` 3 through each of the features.
` 4 Q. Can you indicate where the corners
` 4 And what we're looking at there is a
` 5 are?
` 5 flat piece of metal, right?
` 6 A. The circle with the arrow indicated C
` 6 A. Yes.
` 7 punch detail number 2 would be a corner.
` 7 Q. And it's been punched along the sides
` 8 Q. Okay. And so how is a corner created
` 8 to create the features you were just talking
` 9 by that punch detail 2?
` 9 about?
`10 A. With a pre-notching press and a set
`10 A. Correct.
`11 of tool and dyes that form that feature.
`11 Q. And the figures below, are those
`12 Q. And it looks to me, are there three
`12 showing the punches that you used to make those
`13 identical corners?
`13 features?
`14 A. In this depiction, yes.
`14 A. Well, it says detail 1, detail 2 and
`15 detail 3, so those -- each of those features are
`15 Q. Well, is there -- is this not the
`16 broken out into detail below.
`16 right depiction we should be looking at?
`17 A. You are correct. There's three.
`17 Q. Okay. And those are matched and
`18 Q. Okay. So for Intercept we have three
`18 pointing to where they are in the top figure?
`19 A. Yes.
`19 identical corners, right?
`20 A. Yes.
`20 Q. Can you first indicate on there, draw
`21 Q. And those are each created by each of
`21 on there where really one spacer frame begins and
`22 the sets of notches created by punch detail 2?
`22 ends?
`23 A. Yes.
`23 A. What do you want to call it? What do
`24 you want to call this?
`24 Q. And does each of those represent one
`25 strike of the punch?
`25 Q. I want to call it whatever you would
`
`Page 24
`
`Page 26
`
` 1 call it, but I just want to indicate, so we can
` 2 understand, because these things have, you know,
` 3 kind of continuous frames and have to be cut off
` 4 somewhere, right?
` 5 A. Right. So this would be -- this is
` 6 the end, and this is the start or beginning.
` 7 Q. Okay. And where is that
` 8 corresponding spot in the upper figure?
` 9 A. It's in detail 1.
`10 Q. Right. Can you indicate -- can you
`11 draw on the upper figure where that goes on that
`12 same line?
`13 A. On the top figure it would be here.
`14 Q. Okay. So that marks the beginning of
`15 a spacer frame. And then where is the other --
`16 where is the end of that one?
`17 A. The end is to the left of the line I
`18 drew, and the beginning is to the right.
`19 Q. Okay. And if you move further to the
`20 right, do you get to the end of that one, or is
`21 that not how it works?
`22 A. Yes. That would be the end of -- so
`23 we're showing one full spacer frame and parts of
`24 adjacent spacer frames.
`25 Q. Okay. So the far end of the figure
`
` 1 A. Correct.
` 2 Q. And then how about the fourth corner,
` 3 where is that located?
` 4 A. The fourth corner would be depicted
` 5 in detail one.
` 6 Q. Okay. And how is that corner
` 7 different from the other three?
` 8 A. It's different because it is attached
` 9 to the tab.
`10 Q. Okay. Can you indicate maybe in red,
`11 just label the parameters of what the tab is on
`12 there?
`13 A. Do you want me to label the tab?
`14 Q. Yes.
`15 A. Okay.
`16 Q. Okay. And can you also label it on
`17 the upper figure?
`18 A. Right by the arrow tab.
`19 Q. And that's created with a different
`20 punch, is that right?
`21 A. Different from the corner, yes.
`22 Q. So the -- is it true that one side of
`23 the fourth corner is identical to the other
`24 corners?
`25 A. To be honest with you, I don't really
`Page 27
`
`Page 25
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 | info@depointernational.com
`
`Page 9 (24 - 27)
`
`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1057 - Page 9
`
`

`

`William Briese - 9/5/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
` 1 understand what you just asked me.
` 1 A. Never.
` 2 Q. Yeah. I'm not sure if I do either.
` 2 Q. And if you wanted to make a chance to
` 3 I'm just looking at the notch there that starts
` 3 the software, what would you have to do?
` 4 A. I would have no idea where to even
` 4 the fourth corner. Is the first side of it, the
` 5 start to -- how to answer that question because I
` 5 first side of the V, if you will, the same as the
` 6 am not a software engineer. I have no idea.
` 6 other corners?
` 7 A. It's similar.
` 7 Q. You'd have to ask the software people
` 8 Q. What's the difference?
` 8 for the changes?
` 9 A. Well, if we're going to be specific
` 9 A. It's not something I'm familiar with
`10 there is .232 dimension on the tab and a .222
`10 so someone else has to do it.
`11 dimension on the corner.
`11 Q. I get that. But if you wanted to get
`12 Q. So you're referring to the punch
`12 it done, there would be somebody at GED -- we
`13 detail 1 and punch detail 2 parameters shown
`13 talked about a couple names earlier -- that you
`14 there. A lot of them look to be identical.
`14 could ask for a software change?
`15 A. They're very similar.
`15 A. Oh, yeah.
`16 Q. But there's a difference I see in the
`16 Q. And did you ever do that in working
`17 sort of the height to partway up the notch,
`17 on the original Intercept?
`18 A. I didn't need to, to the best of my
`18 right?
`19 A. Yes.
`19 recollection. I don't remember doing that.
`20 Q. And why is there that difference from
`20 Q. Okay. So you're more in charge, at
`21 .232 in the fourth corner and .222 in each of the
`21 least in this area, in the dimensions of the
`22 other corners?
`22 punch and dye, is that fair?
`23 A. It's really -- that is simply there
`23 A. Yes, more the physical or the
`24 for fabrication setup reasons. It's a starting
`24 mechanical side of the Intercept product.
`25 point at which -- there's a lot that goes into
`25 Q. And does GED manufacture the punch
`Page 30
`Page 28
` 1 these locations as far as the finished spacer
` 2 quality. And these are dimensions or starting
` 3 points to achieve the best finished spacer
` 4 quality.
` 5 Q. Okay. Describe to me a little more
` 6 how the system works here. What does the
` 7 software do in terms of this punching process?
` 8 A. I can only give you -- I can't give
` 9 you how the software works. I can't tell you
`10 that because I don't do that. It's outside of my
`11 expertise. I don't know anything about that.
`12 You program in either through some
`13 front end office order entry software or at the
`14 machine the size of the window you want, and it
`15 produces the notches at the predetermined
`16 locations that has been entered or keyed in by an
`17 operator.
`18 Q. Okay. So the -- I mean, the strip of
`19 metal is -- I don't know where it is. It's in
`20 place. It's on a conveyer. It's somehow being
`21 passed into the area where the punches are and
`22 the software decides when to stamp?
`23 A. Yes.
`24