Timothy McGlinchy - 9/7/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
`
` 1 UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` 2 BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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` 3
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` 4 ANDERSEN CORPORATION, Case No.
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` 5 Plaintiff, DER2017-00007
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` 6 vs. Petitioner Application No.
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` 7 GED INTEGRATED 15/058,862
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` 8 SOLUTIONS, INC., Respondent atent No.
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` 9 Defendant. 9,428,953
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` 10 - - - - -
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` 11 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF TIMOTHY MCGLINCHY
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` 12 Taken on Friday, September 7th, 2018, at 9:00 o'clock a.m.
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` 13
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` 14 At The Offices Of:
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` 15 Baker Hostetler
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` 16 127 Public Square
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` 17 Key Tower, Suite 2000
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` 18 Cleveland, Ohio 44114
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` 19
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` 20 Before Melissa Cruz, a Court Reporter and Notary Public
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` 21 in and for the State of Ohio
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` 22 - - - - -
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` 23
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` 24
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` 25
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`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 | info@depointernational.com
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`Page 1 (1)
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`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1058 - Page 1
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`Timothy McGlinchy - 9/7/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
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` 1 APPEARANCES:
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` 2
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` 3 On behalf of the Petitioner:
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` 4 Robins Kaplan LLP, by
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` 5 CYRUS A. MORTON, ESQ.
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` 6 800 LaSalle Avenue
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` 7 2800 LaSalle Plaza
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` 8 Minneapolis, MN 55402
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` 9 (612) 349-8722
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` 10 Cmorton@robinskaplan.com
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` 11
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` 12 On behalf of the Defendant:
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` 13 Baker Hostetler, by
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` 14 TOM SHUNK, ESQ.
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` 15 Key Tower
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` 16 127 Public Square, Suite 2000
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` 17 Cleveland, Ohio 44114
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` 18 (216) 861-7592
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` 19 Tshunk@bakerlaw.com
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` 20
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` 21
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` 22
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` 23
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` 24
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` 25
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`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 | info@depointernational.com
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`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1058 - Page 2
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`Timothy McGlinchy - 9/7/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
`
` 1 APPEARANCES CONTINUED:
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` 2
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` 3 Tarolli, Sundheim, Covell & Tummino, LLP, by
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` 4 JOHN A. YIRGA, ESQ.
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` 5 SAMANTHA R. SMART, ESQ.
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` 6 1300 East Ninth Street, Suite 1700
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` 7 Cleveland, Ohio 44114
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` 8 (216) 621-2234 ext. 135
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` 9 jyirga@tarolli.com
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` 10 Ssmart@tarolli.com
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` 11 ----
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` 12 ALSO PRESENT:
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` 13 Shelley R. Gilliss, PH.D.
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` 14 Frank Stanek, Videographer
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` 15 ----
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` 16
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` 17
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` 18
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` 19
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` 20
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`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 | info@depointernational.com
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`Page 3 (3)
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`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1058 - Page 3
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`Timothy McGlinchy - 9/7/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
` 1 machinery on the same assembly line.
` 1 VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now on the
` 2 Q. Okay. So this is where somebody got
` 2 record. This is the videographer speaking. My
` 3 injured using the machinery?
` 3 name is Frank Stanek here on behalf of Depo
` 4 A. Correct.
` 4 International. Today is September 7th, 2018 and
` 5 Q. Anything involving windows defect
` 5 the time is 9:00. We are at 127 Public Square,
` 6 cases, that kind of thing?
` 6 Suite 2000 in Cleveland, Ohio to take the
` 7 A. No.
` 7 videotaped deposition of Tim McGlinchy in the
` 8 Q. Did you have a chance to prepare for
` 8 matter of Andersen Corporation versus GED
` 9 your deposition today?
` 9 Integrated Solutions Incorporated in the United
`10 A. Yes.
`10 States Patent and Trademark Office before the
`11 Q. How much time would you say you
`11 Patent Trial and Appeal Board, Case Number DER
`12 spent?
`12 2017-00007.
`13 A. Several hours.
`13 Will counsel please identify
`14 Q. And did you meet with your attorneys
`14 themselves for the record and whom they
`15 for that preparation?
`15 represent?
`16 A. Yes.
`16 MR. MORTON: This is Cy Morton from
`17 Q. And I assume that's the three
`17 Robins Kaplan on behalf of Andersen Corporation,
`18 attorneys we have sitting here?
`18 and with me also is Shelley Gillis.
`19 A. Correct.
`19 MR. SHUNK: I'm Tom Shunk
`20 Q. So I've got to ask if you have any
`20 representing respondent, GED, and with me is
`21 hearing issues or you're on any medication or
`21 Mr. John Yirga and Ms. Samantha Smart.
`22 anything like that that would make it difficult
`22 VIDEOGRAPHER: And will the court
`23 for you to hear my questions and give truthful
`23 reporter please swear in the witness?
`24 and accurate answers?
`24 TIMOTHY MCGLINCHY, of lawful age,
`25 A. No.
`25 called for examination, as provided by the Ohio
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`Page 6
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`Page 4
` 1 Rules of Civil Procedure, being by me first duly
` 2 sworn, as hereinafter certified, deposed and said
` 3 as follows:
` 4 EXAMINATION OF TIMOTHY MCGLINCHY
` 5 BY MR. MORTON:
` 6 Q. Good morning, Mr. McGlinchy.
` 7 A. Good morning.
` 8 Q. For starters, have you had your
` 9 deposition taken before?
`10 A. Yes, I have.
`11 Q. How many times?
`12 A. Multiple times, about four.
`13 Q. What sort of cases were those?
`14 A. Product liability.
`15 Q. Okay. They were all product
`16 liability cases?
`17 A. Three of the four were.
`18 Q. Okay. And were these product
`19 liability cases at GED?
`20 A. Yes.
`21 Q. So what was the issue just in general
`22 if you remember?
`23 A. We were one of many companies
`24 basically called to address, you know, a past
`25 accident that may or may have been part of our
`Page 5
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 | info@depointernational.com
`
` 1 Q. So let's start with just a little bit
` 2 of your background. I understand from your
` 3 declaration that you have been at GED since June
` 4 of 1994, is that right?
` 5 A. That's correct.
` 6 Q. So when you started at GED, what was
` 7 your role and your position?
` 8 A. My title was director of engineering.
` 9 Q. All right. And at that time what was
`10 your role or responsibility with respect to
`11 Intercept?
`12 A. Intercept was one of many of the
`13 products that GED offered at that time. And my
`14 role was to not only support that product, but
`15 all the ancillary products around it and
`16 independent products and also development of
`17 software for GED at that time.
`18 Q. Okay. And when you mean support
`19 those products, let's focus on Intercept. What
`20 were your kind of job requirements or
`21 responsibilities?
`22 A. I oversaw engineering, research and
`23 development, and software. In regards to
`24 Intercept when I first started in 1994, the
`25 biggest focus was to make it produceable in a
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`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1058 - Page 4
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`Timothy McGlinchy - 9/7/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
` 1 repeatable fashion, and produce it as efficiently
` 1 Q. Got it. So in that roll, over the
` 2 as we could, you know, for consistency for our
` 2 years, did you make any notable or significant or
` 3 customers.
` 3 oversee significant improvements to Intercept?
` 4 At that time there was high demand.
` 4 A. Yes.
` 5 We were a small company, and they wanted to get
` 5 Q. And can you list those for me if you
` 6 more efficient at it.
` 6 can, chronologically? I realize it's a ways
` 7 Q. Okay. So focusing on the software,
` 7 back, but give me an idea.
` 8 A. Well, certainly, I think going back
` 8 are you a software engineer by trade?
` 9 A. No.
` 9 chronologically to the best I can recall, the
`10 first thing I did was focus on documentation,
`10 Q. But you were in charge of software
`11 instruction manuals, assembly drawings, standards
`11 engineers at GED?
`12 A. Yes.
`12 for product itself as far as when it was being
`13 made properly, how it is being made.
`13 Q. Okay. You understand we're here --
`14 Also, standards for what we expect
`14 it's the derivation proceeding involving the 953
`15 process wise from, not only Intercept spacer, but
`15 patent with Bill Briese and Cliff Weber as
`16 all the way through to it getting installed into
`16 inventors?
`17 A. Yes.
`17 framing or swage.
`18 Q. And I see from your declaration
`18 Q. Okay. So anything else by way of
`19 you've got your name on 50 patents and
`19 improvements that you oversaw to the Intercept
`20 applications. But to the best of your knowledge,
`20 system, you know, beyond better documentation and
`21 you did not contribute to the conception of any
`21 standards?
`22 A. I would say one of the first things
`22 of the claims of the 953 patent?
`23 A. Correct.
`23 at GED I recall was focusing on getting good
`24 consistent setup out of our roll formers.
`24 Q. Over your time at GED, did your role
`25 or responsibilities change from when you started
`25 Q. Okay. So what do you mean by that?
`Page 8
`
` 1 in 94?
` 2 A. Yes.
` 3 Q. All right. Can you describe -- what
` 4 was the first significant change, promotion, what
` 5 have you?
` 6 A. The first significant change was not
` 7 necessarily a promotion as much as it was a
` 8 change in focus. So I hired some additional
` 9 engineers to help me with the sustainment of
`10 product so I could focus more on research and
`11 development.
`12 Q. Okay. When did that happen?
`13 A. 1995, 1996.
`14 Q. And so when you say you focused on
`15 research and development, does that mean you're
`16 kind of focusing more on improvements to say the
`17 Intercept system?
`18 A. That would be one aspect of it. The
`19 other aspect would be really growing a product
`20 line to different types of products.
`21 Q. Okay. So adding products to the
`22 product line?
`23 A. Correct.
`24 Q. Or improving existing products --
`25 A. Existing products, both.
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`Page 10
` 1 A. One of the key items in any product
` 2 is being able to repeat unit one through unit X.
` 3 In other words, you know, if you want to make a
` 4 good product, you want it to be consistent and of
` 5 good quality in a predictable manner.
` 6 So there was a focus on making sure
` 7 that we refine the role set at that time for
` 8 making the U shaped Intercept channel so that it
` 9 could be consistently set up in manufacturing and
`10 for our customers.
`11 So we did do a little refinement to
`12 some of the passes in the roll former itself as
`13 well as setup documentation for the factory and
`14 techniques for our customer, if they didn't need
`15 to make adjustments, how to make those
`16 adjustments and how to do it in a predictable
`17 manner.
`18 Q. What was the time frame for that
`19 work?
`20 A. 1995, 1996.
`21 Q. Okay. So moving forward in time, any
`22 other significant changes or improvements to
`23 Intercept that you oversaw?
`24 A. The next significant improvement was
`25 second generation Intercept. That was 1996.
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`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 | info@depointernational.com
`
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`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1058 - Page 5
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`Timothy McGlinchy - 9/7/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
` 1 adjust the cut-off station, adjust the payout
` 1 There was a concerted effort to, not only at one
` 2 conveyor, adjust the extruder, the desiccant
` 2 time cost reduce the Intercept line, but to make
` 3 heads.
` 3 a version that was our goal, half price, half
` 4 And an operator was really good at it
` 4 speed and that took place in 1996, took a little
` 5 if, you know, for every spacer change that they
` 5 different spin.
` 6 would take would be anywhere between five to
` 6 We did reduce some cost and made the
` 7 fifteen minutes. You know, that's dependent on
` 7 product more available commercially, and that was
` 8 their procedures.
` 8 our second generation Intercept, which we call
` 9 So we made a real concerted effort to
` 9 Intercept 2.
`10 automate that, and we came out with a product
`10 We actually made it about as fast to
`11 called the Intercept I3 in 2005. And on that
`11 really add about the same speed, but the
`12 platform, you could load up one of ten stations
`12 advantage was a new control system platform, new
`13 with different material, typically thickness, not
`13 controls and the technology with Servo motors
`14 stainless or tinplate.
`14 gave us the ability to do things for less money
`15 This was all 10,000 tin plate
`15 and do things more accurately.
`16 thickness material and had the ability to
`16 Q. Okay. Let's keep going forward in
`17 automatically, through the software schedule,
`17 time. Any other significant change?
`18 literally have the ability for the machine to
`18 A. Significant milestones in my opinion
`19 make that changeover automatically through the
`19 and achievements were the creation of probably
`20 whole system within 30 seconds.
`20 the 2000 time frame, 2002 would be what's termed
`21 So that was a big effort, big
`21 today as ULTRA, and that was the focus on
`22 project, and we still offer that platform today.
`22 running.
`23 I worked very heavily with some
`23 Q. Okay. And you said that's what you
`24 metallurgists to create a special formula of
`24 called the I3?
`25 A. That is correct.
`25 stainless steel, and it was thinner gauge, but it
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`Page 12
` 1 was lower in conductivity compared to standard
` 2 stainless steel conductivity, and then we worked
` 3 hard at commercializing that aspect of Intercept
` 4 so we could offer our customers an alternative
` 5 material that was more thermally efficient for
` 6 making slated glass.
` 7 Q. Got it. I think I've seen some
` 8 references to that. So that's, I think you said,
` 9 early 2000s. Let's keep going forward. Next
`10 significant improvement you oversaw at Intercept?
`11 A. Next major milestone I remember is,
`12 there is a driving factor in our market for being
`13 able to change efficiently different widths of
`14 insulating glass or spacer size.
`15 So it's really -- how it relates to
`16 Intercept would be, you know, we had the ability
`17 to run a 732nd spacer all the way up to 2532nd
`18 spacer, and we typically had these increments of
`19 eight inches, you know, on standard that you
`20 would be able to do.
`21 And in order to change out the
`22 material in the whole system, there was multiple
`23 steps the operator would have to take to unthread
`24 the machine, rethread the machine, adjust the
`25 feeder press station, adjust the roll former,
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`Page 14
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` 1 Q. All right. I appreciate that. So
` 2 let's keep going. After 2005, what's your next
` 3 significant change you oversaw for Intercept?
` 4 A. As part of that Intercept platform's
` 5 ability to put on sealants, and I'm going to go
` 6 back all the way to 2000, it is part of the
` 7 Intercept platform the ability to predictably put
` 8 on correct amounts of desiccant as well as
` 9 sealant onto the side and backs and consistent
`10 matter, we had something called the smart
`11 extruder.
`12 And that was something that we
`13 actually came out in the 2000 time frame. And we
`14 incrementally improved that product line, along
`15 with the I3, in 2005 to automatically adjust and
`16 locate desiccant nozzles. That was significant
`17 because in order to change the spacer, you had to
`18 literally, if you went too far where you were
`19 running previously, had to reload on a bayonet a
`20 different extruder desiccant nozzle. And then
`21 that had to not only be purged to get rid of the
`22 air and to put down different amounts and
`23 heights, it did that automatically with the I3,
`24 and that was part of the Intercept platform.
`25 Q. All right. Well, it just keeps
`
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`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 | info@depointernational.com
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`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1058 - Page 6
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`Timothy McGlinchy - 9/7/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
` 1 Intercept has been a proven product
` 1 getting better and better. So after that, now
` 2 for 20 plus years, and sometimes you have to
` 2 we're kind of getting into the later 2000s. Any
` 3 reignite the interest on what's already good
` 3 other significant changes that you oversaw for
` 4 because sometimes people just want to focus on
` 4 Intercept?
` 5 what's new.
` 5 A. We had a fair amount of refinement in
` 6 2008-10 time frame. There was a governmental
` 6 Q. So for all the changes that you've
` 7 program for rebates, for consumers who bought
` 7 overseen, where would you rank Corner Plus,
` 8 certain styles of window. It was called a 3030
` 8 especially given that you're marketing it as the
` 9 program.
` 9 best thing to happen to Intercept since
`10 That was any windows that could reach
`10 Intercept?
`11 A. It's a difficult question. I think
`11 a conductivity of .30 or better and a reflective
`12 it all seemed very important to me when I looked
`12 emissivity of .30 or better, they were giving
`13 at it ballistically. I think the, probably the
`13 rebates to customers. And it just happened that
`14 largest significant contribution is to be able to
`14 what we developed as stainless gave our customers
`15 make the machine consistently year after year and
`15 that ability fairly quickly.
`16 which produces a consistent product year after
`16 So we came up with a lot of
`17 year.
`17 refinement to our stainless steel series of, I'll
`18 If we didn't have that, we would have
`18 say equipment, including changeovers to allow
`19 never been as established as we are in the market
`19 people to modify and upgrade their Intercept
`20 place. So I think it was, as soft as it sounds,
`20 lines. That was a major milestone.
`21 it may not be the number one innovative type of
`21 Q. All right. Good. So let's keep
`22 marketing item. It just will be able to
`22 going. After that?
`23 consistently make product day in and day out with
`23 A. Probably the next significant
`24 our suppliers and our supply chain as well as
`24 milestone would be improvements to Intercept.
`25 internally able to manufacture consistent.
`25 Certainly, I think saying it's the only
`
`Page 16
` 1 incremental item. It's one of many, would be the
` 2 Corner Plus --
` 3 Q. Okay.
` 4 A. -- upgrades, and that gave us really,
` 5 you know, the ability to take a very good product
` 6 that was proven now in the industry for, you
` 7 know, 20 plus years and able to refine it more
` 8 and bring, you know, additional consistency, you
` 9 know, to our customers.
`10 Q. And that's in the 2014 time frame?
`11 A. 2015, 2014 time frame, yes.
`12 Q. Okay. And has that been the last big
`13 change that you have overseen was the Corner
`14 Plus?
`15 A. I think so, yes.
`16 Q. And I know I've seen your marketing
`17 literature that says Corner Plus is the best
`18 thing to happen to Intercept since Intercept.
`19 Have you seen that as well?
`20 A. I've seen that stated, yes.
`21 Q. And do you agree with that?
`22 A. Personally, no. For a company, when
`23 you're a marketing department, it's the right
`24 thing to say to get people excited about a
`25 product that they've had.
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`Page 18
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` 1 Q. Sure. And I get that. A lot of the
` 2 innovations you described were for that
` 3 consistency and manufacturing.
` 4 Was Corner Plus the first major, what
` 5 should I call it, structural change to the design
` 6 of the spacer frame itself?
` 7 A. In regards to geometry, yes.
` 8 Q. Okay. Just as an aside, I noted
` 9 looking at your declaration and Mr. Briese's
`10 declaration that when you're talking about the
`11 spacer frame, you use different terminology.
`12 He would say, insert the tab into the
`13 tail, and you would call the tab a tongue. Do
`14 you remember that?
`15 A. Yes.
`16 Q. I'm just curious, what's the deal
`17 with the difference in terminology?
`18 A. I was -- when I first started at GED
`19 in 1994, I received a lot of my transition
`20 training from the Edmund Leopold and Dick
`21 Dietrich. And I think Edmund gave it that name,
`22 and it just sort of stuck with me because that's
`23 the way I was taught.
`24 Q. You don't have any -- there's no
`25 different connotation meant by tab versus tongue
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` 1 in your mind?
` 2 A. No. That's, in my opinion,
` 3 interchangeable terms. It's just a vernacular
` 4 that I'm comfortable with.
` 5 Q. Okay. Let's go back and I want to
` 6 focus on original Intercept and sealing the
` 7 fourth corner and also the fourth corner patch
` 8 and talk about that for a little bit, okay.
` 9 You say in your declaration that the
`10 fourth corner patch issue was known to GED at the
`11 time of the March meeting and dating back many
`12 years. So I want to get an idea of when the
`13 fourth corner patch issue was first known to you
`14 at GED.
`15 A. In general, it was one of the
`16 opportunities that was first cited to me from
`17 Dick Dietrich and Edmund Leopold, at that time
`18 the owners of the company, when I was first
`19 hired.
`20 Certainly, Intercept is a very good
`21 product. It's been proven over all these years.
`22 At that time when I was hired, the product was in
`23 the market about two or three years. And when I
`24 came to GED, one of my concerns was, this is a
`25 window industry. It seems so limited, you know,
`
`Timothy McGlinchy - 9/7/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
` 1 always, and it was just never the highest
` 2 priority, and it really didn't come front and
` 3 center until later in the years as an automation.
` 4 It was always a need, but it was
` 5 never necessarily the -- I call it the low
` 6 hanging fruit to go get for new product
` 7 development.
` 8 Q. Okay. So you know, we're starting,
` 9 we're back in the 90s. Can you just talk me
`10 through the process initially of how you seal the
`11 fourth corner in the original Intercept?
`12 A. Well, there's the formal technique
`13 and then there's techniques that everyone else
`14 was doing by bad habit.
`15 Q. Okay. Let's start with the formal
`16 techniques.
`17 A. At that time, you know, I'll go back
`18 into the early 90s. Certainly, assuming an
`19 operator would fold a unit correctly and get on
`20 the line, all these insulating glass units of
`21 various sizes would be inserted typically into
`22 a -- what we called the finished IT rack, and
`23 these would vary anywhere from 36 slots to 50
`24 slots, various units, various sizes.
`25 Operators would typically have at
`Page 22
` 1 that time up to four station gas filling machines
` 2 that were very common. Some people had homemade
` 3 systems that were nothing more than a claptrap
` 4 regulator off of Argon, stick it in a hole for
` 5 some amount of prescribed time on an Excel
` 6 spreadsheet that would say, here's your size
` 7 chart. You know, you should have your probe in
` 8 there for eight seconds. It was that
` 9 fundamental.
`10 And also at the beginning time, now
`11 that I'm recalling, it was pretty predominant for
`12 us to have two gas hole filling. It wasn't
`13 single gas hole filling, and the reason for that
`14 is, you would traditionally stick a gas probe
`15 into the bottom, and it would displace the air.
`16 Since Argon or gases are heavier than air, they
`17 would push it out, and then you'd seal both
`18 locations.
`19 So it was double work for many years
`20 until the single gas hole technique was
`21 developed, which was in the 98 time frame or so.
`22 And that reduced the amount of holes. So
`23 arguably, there was significant improvement at
`24 that timeframe to go from one hole to holes, from
`25 two holes to one hole because it reduced the
`
`Page 20
` 1 but I was at that time recruited, and I said, how
` 2 much work am I going to have to do in this
` 3 industry? I mean, I'm looking. How many
` 4 machines can I sell? How many window companies
` 5 are there? It was sort of one of those questions
` 6 before I jumped shipped and went to another new
` 7 company for an opportunity, which I wanted to do,
` 8 I sort of asked that question.
` 9 And when I asked that question, that
`10 was one of probably at that time ten items. They
`11 said, this is what we need. Here's opportunities
`12 for us to even take this good thing and promote
`13 it further.
`14 And at that time, and it still was
`15 for many years, the fourth corner was a manual
`16 process, and it had consistency for gas filling
`17 at that time -- was riveting. That was what we
`18 had to begin with, and in sealing the unit it was
`19 literally an investment opportunity. That's an
`20 opportunity to do better.
`21 So it goes all the way back from
`22 those beginning stages, and then as I went out to
`23 the field and talked to people, you could see how
`24 many at that time that was, you know, a focus of
`25 some manual labor that they would like to reduce
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`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1058 - Page 8
`
`

`

`Timothy McGlinchy - 9/7/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
` 1 labor in half, as you can imagine.
` 1 Intercept where the tail terminates at the
` 2 So the operators would do their gas
` 2 corner, right?
` 3 A. Okay.
` 3 filling techniques. If you had an advanced gas
` 4 filling machine at that time, it had a sensor
` 4 Q. And so anyway, that area of the
` 5 that would look at the remaining air coming out
` 5 corner, that seam, what's the formal methodology
` 6 of the unit and analyze it on the fly, and until
` 6 for getting that sealed in the original
` 7 you got to the correct gas fill level with either
` 7 Intercept?
` 8 A. Part of before the final seal,
` 8 the thermal conductivity or the loss of oxygen
` 9 there's a setup, critical setup on the extruder.
` 9 being reduced, it would automatically shut off
`10 and a light would come on, and that was their
`10 Q. Okay. Tell me.
`11 A. And ideally, you like to start the
`11 signal to put a fastener, you know, on the
`12 seal partially up the tongue or the -- I'm
`12 product to begin with.
`13 sorry -- the tab. And when you do the cart
`13 And you can see the -- sequentially,
`14 wheeling process off of the extruder, the ideal
`14 they worked their way through their rack, and
`15 thing is to have little excess butyl there so
`15 while others are gas filling, they'd insert, you
`16 that when you cartwheel the tab or tongue into
`16 know, screws or rivets. And screw was a new
`17 the tail, you had just a little excess butyl
`17 product that came out in the mid 90s, too, that
`18 there.
`18 we thought was a little better.
`19 And we would inform the operators to
`19 Because the problem with rivets, you
`20 try to roll that over with their thumb in order
`20 can always get them real tight to clench the
`21 get some additional sealant in that area because
`21 metal perfectly because the metal was so thin,
`22 -- so that was, that's a precursor to, you know,
`22 and everyone hated the stubs that got left behind
`23 the final seal.
`23 by the rivet gun. They would end up on the
`24 floor, and people would be stepping on them. And
`24 Q. Okay. And is that --
`25 A. So that was the gap to fill up that
`25 what was nice about screws is, they didn't leave
`
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` 1 that mess.
` 2 And then it came down to what you
` 3 were supposed to do in regards, and that was an
` 4 issue, too. I forgot that step. People would
` 5 carry awls or ice picks in the assembly line to
` 6 realign the holes, and that was a common issue
` 7 that people just overlooked that they were
` 8 always -- the human was always able to compensate
` 9 for, and that led to issues, too, because when
`10 you ream things out, you no longer have a hole.
`11 You have an oversized hole. Now the rivet or the
`12 screw doesn't rip as well, so you have
`13 developments of maybe less of a good seal.
`14 And then it came down to the final
`15 patch, which I try to say final seal now, since
`16 that's another vernacular. And the final seal
`17 was supposed to, you know, you want the butyl,
`18 your final butyls to fuse, not just frost a cake.
`19 You want them to fuse so that you truly have a
`20 good amount of seal, and people -- that's where a
`21 lot of variances start coming up. People --
`22 Q. Okay. Well, I do want to focus on
`23 that part and the fourth corner, and you're --
`24 make sure it's the same terminology, but there's
`25 a seam at the fourth corner, the original
`
` 1 area that had flow.
` 2 Q. Is that something I've heard refer to
` 3 as the pinch and roll? Are you familiar with
` 4 that terminology?
` 5 A. I don't know. I don't remember. I
` 6 could understand the roll part, but I'm not sure
` 7 what the pinch is so I would be guessing. I
` 8 don't know.
` 9 Q. Handing you what's been marked
`10 previously as Exhibit 1010, these are some tabs
`11 at the fourth corner to seal it, and I'm just
`12 looking especially at the -- I don't know, the
`13 second one from the left. It seems like the one
`14 on the left, the sealant doesn't look that good.
`15 The second one from the left looks
`16 like there was extra sealant at the corner that
`17 was rolled over the way you described. Is that
`18 what you were describing in your testimony?
`19 A. It might be. I see such
`20 inconsistency here I can't really tell you, but
`21 it might be. I'm not sure. Certainly, the far
`22 unit to the left I would argue, I'm not sure why
`23 the sealant is missing.
`24 Q. Me neither.
`25 A. But that would be less desirable than
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`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 | info@depointernational.com
`
`Page 9 (24 - 27)
`
`DER2017-00007
`Andersen v. GED
`Ex. 1058 - Page 9
`
`

`

`Timothy McGlinchy - 9/7/2018
`Andersen Corporation vs. GED Integrated Solutions, Inc.
` 1 the one second from the left.
` 1 declaration was known for many years, the
` 2 problems of how that was done?
` 2 Q. Okay. And so again, I think you were
` 3 A. In general, yes. I think certainly
` 3 describing that the way you wanted it to be done
` 4 the big challenges, people could do it right.
` 4 and the way you trained it was to have a little
` 5 People, I think as time went on, would have
` 5 excess butyl at that fourth corner so you could
` 6 different operators. They wouldn't necessarily
` 6 squeeze it, pinch it, whatever you want to call
` 7 train them all the time to the same level of
` 7 it and roll it over the corner to get a better
` 8 consistency.
` 8 seal, is that right?
` 9 People move around the plant so, you
` 9 A. Correct. Yes.
`10 know, the whole -- it was always described to
`10 Q. And I think you said that's not the
`11 improve that area.
`11 final seal, is that right?
`12 A. Correct.
`12 Q. And so why was it always desired to
`13 improve that area; what's driving that?
`13 Q. Okay. Can you describe what the
`14 A. Two things: Certainly labor,
`14 final seal is?
`15 consistency. It was hard to put a finger on
`15 A. Well, the final seal after you gasket
`16 this, but there was a lot of reports -- and I'm
`16 correctly, assuming you do, properly and install
`17 going to use that term because those are loose --
`17 a fastener or, of some type, screw a rivet, we
`18 - where people would say, geez, if we would have
`18 would ask the operators to, you know, whether
`19 an area, we'd like to improve our reliability.
`19 they were using what, we had five gallon patch
`20 We feel we're getting seal values. There would
`20 pumps or final seal pumps. We also had 55 gallon
`21