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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` ARIOSA DIAGNOSTICS, )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. ) Cases IPR2013-00276
` ) and IPR2013-00277
` VERINATA HEALTH, INC., )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
` ___________________________ )
` )
` AND RELATED ACTION. )
` ___________________________ )
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF ATUL J. BUTTE, M.D., PH.D.
`
` Palo Alto, California
` Friday, March 14, 2014
`
`Reported By:
`Hanna Kim, CLR, CSR No. 13083
`Job 71713
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 1
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`
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` ARIOSA DIAGNOSTICS, )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. ) Cases IPR2013-00276
` ) and IPR2013-00277
` VERINATA HEALTH, INC., )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
` ___________________________ )
` )
` AND RELATED ACTION. )
` ___________________________ )
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF ATUL J. BUTTE, M.D., PH.D.
`
` Palo Alto, California
` Friday, March 14, 2014
`
`Reported By:
`Hanna Kim, CLR, CSR No. 13083
`Job 71713
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 1
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`Page 2
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` ARIOSA DIAGNOSTICS, )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. ) Cases IPR2013-00276
` ) and IPR2013-00277
` VERINATA HEALTH, INC., )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
` ___________________________ )
` )
` AND RELATED ACTION. )
` ___________________________ )
`
` Videotaped deposition of ATUL J. BUTTE, M.D.,
`PH.D., taken on behalf of the Petitioner, at the law
`offices of Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati, located at
`650 Page Mill Road, Palo Alto, California, on March 14,
`2014, at 9:12 a.m. and ending at 6:34 p.m., before
`Hanna Kim, CLR, CSR No. 13083.
`
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`pg. 2
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` APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
`
`Page 3
`
`For Petitioner:
`
` ARIOSA DIAGNOSTICS
` BY: DIANNA DeVORE, Ph.D., J.D.
` JULIE GREEN, ESQ.
` 5945 Optical Court
` San Jose, California 95138
`
` OBLON, SPIVAK, McCLELLAND, MAIER & NEUSTADT
` BY: GREG GARDELLA, ESQ.
` KEVIN LAURENCE, ESQ.
` 1940 Duke Street
` Alexandria, Virginia 22314
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`pg. 3
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` APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: (CONTINUED)
`
`Page 4
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`For Petitioner:
`
` IRELL & MANELLA
` BY: AMIR NAINI, ESQ.
` 1800 Avenue of the Stars, Suite 900
` Los Angeles, California 90067
`
` CONVERGENT LAW GROUP
` BY: SARAH BRASHEARS, ESQ.
` 475 N. Whisman Road, Suite 400
` Mountain View, California 94043
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`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 4
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` APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: (CONTINUED)
`
`Page 5
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`For Patent Owner:
`
` WILSON SONSINI GOODRICH & ROSATI
` BY: MICHAEL ROSATO, ESQ.
` 701 Fifth Avenue, Suite 5100
` Seattle, Washington 98104
`
` -and-
`
` BY: MAYA SKUBATCH, ESQ.
` 650 Page Mill Road
` Palo Alto, California 94304
`
`Also Present:
`
` MARCUS BURCH, ESQ., Illumina Inc.
` (Appearing by Telephone)
` SHAWN McGRATH, Videographer
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`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 5
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` INDEX OF EXAMINATION
`
`WITNESS: ATUL J. BUTTE, M.D., Ph.D.
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`Page 6
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`EXAMINATION PAGE
` BY MS. DeVORE: 9
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`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 6
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` INDEX OF EXHIBITS
`
`Page 7
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` DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NOS. PAGE
` Exhibit 1010 Document, "Multiplexed 29
` Sequencing with the Illumina
` Genome Analyzer System;" 4 pages
` Exhibit 1011 Document, "Noninvasive diagnosis 116
` of fetal aneuploidy by shotgun
` sequencing DNA from maternal
` blood;" 6 pages
` Exhibit 1013 Document, "Maternal Plasma DNA 116
` Analysis with Massively Parallel
` Sequencing by Ligation for
` Noninvasive Prenatal Diagnosis
` of Trisomy 21;" 5 pages
`(Exhibit 1012 was omitted by stipulation of Counsel.)
` --o0o--
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`pg. 7
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`Page 8
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF ATUL J. BUTTE, M.D., Ph.D.
` Palo Alto, California; Friday, March 14, 2014
` 9:12 a.m. - 6:35 p.m.
`
` PROCEEDINGS
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. This is the
`start of Disc No. 1 of the videotaped deposition of
`Dr. Atul Butte in the matter Ariosa Diagnostics
`Incorporated versus Verinata Health Incorporated in the
`U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, Case Number
`IPR 2013-00276.
` This deposition is being held at 650 Page Mill
`Road, Palo Alto, California, on March 14, 2014, at
`approximately 9:12 a.m.
` My name is Shawn McGrath of TSG Reporting
`Incorporated, and I'm the legal video specialist. The
`court reporter is Hanna Kim, in association with TSG
`Reporting.
` Will counsel please introduce yourselves,
`starting with the questioning attorney.
` MS. DeVORE: Hi. I'm -- I'm Dianna DeVore,
`and I'm in-house counsel at Ariosa Diagnostics.
` MR. GARDELLA: Greg Gardella, Oblon Spivak,
`representing Petitioner Ariosa Diagnostics.
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`pg. 8
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`Page 9
` MR. LAURENCE: Kevin Laurence at Oblon Spivak,
`representing Petitioner Ariosa Diagnostics.
` MR. NAINI: Amir Naini of Irell & Manella for
`Ariosa.
` MS. BRASHEARS: Sarah Brashears, Convergent
`Law Group, Ariosa.
` MS. GREEN: Julie Green for Ariosa
`Diagnostics.
` MR. ROSATO: Michael Rosato on behalf of the
`Patent Owner.
` MS. SKUBATCH: Maya Skubatch on behalf of the
`Patent Owner.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: And on the phone? On --
` MR. BURCH: On the phone is Marcus Burch of
`Illumina Inc.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Would the court reporter
`please swear in the witness and we can proceed.
` (Whereupon the witness was sworn in by
` the court reporter.)
` ATUL BUTTE, M.D., Ph.D.,
`having been administered an oath, was examined and
`testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. Okay. Welcome. I just do want to clarify one
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`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 9
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`Page 10
`thing for the record before we get started. And that
`is that this is the deposition for both IPR 2013-00276
`and IPR 2013-00277.
` So I just want to make sure that we -- we all
`acknowledge that we're -- we're here for -- for both of
`those --
` A. Yes.
` Q. -- interparty-related cases.
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Okay.
` MS. DeVORE: And does opposing counsel concur
`with that?
` MR. ROSATO: I agree we're here for those two
`cases, yes.
` MS. DeVORE: Okay. Great. And can we get a
`caption on that, please. Thank you.
` MR. GARDELLA: Yeah. So dual caption case for
`the deposition.
` MS. DeVORE: Okay. Thank you. Okay.
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. And can you state for the record your full
`name, please.
` A. Atul Butte.
` Q. Okay. And, Dr. Butte, have you testified
`before in any legal proceedings?
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`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 10
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` A. Yes, I have.
` Q. Okay. And in what proceedings have you
`testified?
` A. When I was a pediatric endocrinologist at
`Boston Children's Hospital, I had to represent a child
`who was undergoing medical neglect. The child had a
`diabetes, and we were there to essentially try to save
`his life.
` Q. And have you been involved with any other
`legal proceedings?
` A. Not that I can remember.
` Q. Okay. Great.
` So just to remind you that you are testifying
`under oath today and that you're to testify fully and
`accurately to the best of your ability.
` And I'll ask the questions, and you're to
`answer them. Attorneys for Patent Owner can make
`objections for the record, but you are still to answer
`the questions.
` If you need breaks at any time, please let us
`know. We may just ask to finish a line of questioning,
`but we want to make sure that this is as comfortable
`for you as possible.
` A. Sure.
` Q. If you find any portion of a question or
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`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 11
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`question confusing, will you let me know, please?
` A. Yes, I will.
` Q. Okay. And if you remember something that you
`forgot earlier or you need to clarify, please just tell
`me.
` A. Sure.
` Q. Okay. And same for anything that you need to
`change or to correct.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Okay. And so in preparing for this
`deposition, how did you go about doing that?
` A. I was given a -- a set of documents to review.
` Q. Okay. And which documents were you given to
`review?
` A. There's three particular pieces of potential
`prior art.
` Q. Okay. And those three pieces of prior art
`are -- are which documents?
` A. So I think we commonly referred them to -- as
`Dhallan, Shoemaker, and Binladen.
` Q. And when did you last read those three
`documents?
` A. Multiple times this week.
` Q. Multiple times this week.
` So you're familiar with all three documents?
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`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 12
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` A. Yes, I am.
` Q. Okay. Did you read any other documents in
`preparation for this deposition?
` A. Of course the '430 Patent.
` Q. And any others?
` A. My declaration.
` Q. And that's the declaration in both the -- what
`I'll -- I'll refer to as the 276 case and the 277 case?
` A. Exactly. The two declarations.
` Q. Okay.
` A. Exactly.
` Q. Okay. And did you read any other documents?
` A. The declarations from Drs. Nussbaum and
`Morton.
` Q. And any additional documents? Did you read --
` A. And the -- the transcripts of the depositions
`for Drs. Nussbaum --
` Q. Transcript -- okay. The transcripts of the
`Morton deposition and the Nussbaum deposition in
`this -- in these cases?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Okay. And did you read any other documents in
`preparation for the deposition today?
` A. The preparation of this deposition, not that I
`can recall.
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`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 13
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` Q. Okay. And how did you go about preparing for
`the deposition today? And I'm not asking for any
`privileged information or discussions with attorneys,
`but more how you prepared.
` A. The -- the proceedings today revolve around
`the '430 Patent, so I started by looking at the '430
`Patent. And I was asked to comment on certain aspects
`of the '4- -- '430 Patent, given those three documents,
`Shoemaker, Binladen, and Dhallan. So I looked at the
`'430 Patent in the context of those documents.
` Q. Did you have any meetings with counsel in
`preparation for your deposition today?
` A. Yes, I did.
` Q. And who -- who was present at the -- the
`meetings that you had in preparation for the
`deposition?
` A. So Mike Rosato and Maya Skubatch.
` Q. And anybody else?
` A. Mr. Burch.
` Q. And were those the only people present in the
`meetings that you had?
` A. Mr. Walter.
` Q. Mr. Walter.
` And is Mr. Walter an attorney?
` A. My understanding is, yes.
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`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 14
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` Q. Okay. Is he an attorney at Wilson Sonsini?
` A. I'm not sure.
` Q. Okay. Okay. I'd just like to start a little
`bit with -- with some background questions.
` A. Of course.
` Q. So can you just give us an idea of what your
`area of expertise is?
` MR. ROSATO: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: I discuss a lot of that in the
`declaration, so if I could get a copy of the
`declaration, I could read from that.
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. Okay. Okay. I'm fine with that.
` Okay. So we'd like to enter for the record
`Exhibit 2003 for both the 276 and 277 cases.
` A. Thank you.
` (Exhibit No. 2003 was referenced.)
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. And just for efficiency sake, when I'm
`referring to your declaration, at least in the first
`part of this deposition, I'll be referring to the
`declaration in the 276 case.
` A. Yep. I understand.
` Q. Okay. Okay. Okay.
` A. I have the document in front of me. Could you
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`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 15
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`repeat your question.
` Q. I'd be happy to.
` So, Dr. Butte, what do you consider your area
`of expertise?
` A. So I'm broadly --
` MR. ROSATO: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: I'm -- I'm an associate
`professor of pediatrics and genetics here at Stanford
`University. I have courtesy appointments in computer
`science, pathology, and the department of medicine. So
`I would consider those my areas of expertise.
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. Okay. So you consider your areas of expertise
`to be pediatrics, genetics, computer science,
`pathology, and medicine?
` A. That's right.
` Q. Okay. Do you consider yourself an expert in
`molecular biology?
` A. I consider myself familiar with many of the
`techniques in molecular biology.
` Q. And do you consider yourself an expert in the
`area of genomics?
` A. I consider myself an expert in the area of
`genomics.
` Q. And are there any specific areas within
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`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 16
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`genomics in which you currently work?
` A. I currently work in the areas using RNA, DNA,
`proteins. Ten years ago, I wrote a book on analyzing
`gene expression microarrays, with co-authors.
` Q. And what was the name of the book?
` A. The name of the book? Published by MIT Press,
`and I'm just referring to my CV to make sure I get it
`correct. "Microarrays for an Integrative Genomics."
` Q. And what year was that book published?
` A. That book was published in 2002.
` Q. And what is the current focus of your research
`at Stanford University?
` MR. ROSATO: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: My research lab has many
`different directions in genetics and genomics. We use
`genomic data to develop new therapeutics. We use DNA
`and genomic data to come up with new diagnostics. And
`we do research in diagnostics and prognostics; and
`clinical trials.
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. And what are the -- the new diagnostics that
`you are currently -- or your lab is currently
`conducting research in?
` MR. ROSATO: Objection. Form. Foundation.
` THE WITNESS: For example, we are trying to
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`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 17
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`come up with new diagnostics for ovarian cancer.
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. Does your research into new diagnostics and
`prognostics involve sequencing techniques?
` MR. ROSATO: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: Sometimes they involve
`sequencing techniques.
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. And does your research into new diagnostics
`and prognostics involve massively parallel sequencing
`techniques?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And is massively parallel sequencing performed
`currently in your laboratory?
` MR. ROSATO: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: My collaborators use massively
`parallel sequencing in their labs or through contract
`services to gather data that we can analyze.
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. Massively parallel sequencing is not currently
`conducted in your laboratory, correct?
` A. I'm unclear about your word of -- that word
`"conducted."
` Q. Are massively parallel sequencing techniques
`performed in your laboratory?
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`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 18
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` A. The analytic steps of going from sequence
`reads to interpretable data is performed in my
`laboratory, and I will consider that an integral part
`of massively parallel sequencing, so I have to answer
`yes.
` Q. Okay. So the analytics of massively parallel
`sequencing are performed in your laboratory?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is the biochemistry of massively parallel
`sequencing performed in your laboratory?
` MR. ROSATO: Objection. Form. Foundation.
` THE WITNESS: The biochemical reactions are
`not performed in my offices and cubicles or those of
`the people in my lab.
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. Are the biochemical reactions of massively
`parallel sequencing performed in a wet laboratory for
`which you supervise the activities?
` A. Can -- it's a -- you're asking a broad
`question here. We do massively parallel sequencing at
`Stanford. I supervise some of the people at Stanford,
`but they're not in my assigned space in my office
`building.
` Q. Okay.
` A. So I'm not sure how to answer your question.
`
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`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 19
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` Q. Let me back up. Do you --
` A. That would help.
` Q. -- supervise a wet laboratory at Stanford?
` A. No.
` Q. Okay. So the activities that you supervise at
`Stanford take place in --
` A. Offices.
` Q. -- offices and cubicles -- okay. Okay.
` And then what was the focus of your research
`in 2009?
` A. In 2009, we had a lot of different directions
`going on. We were finding new uses for drugs, we were
`coming up with diagnostics, and we were exploring how
`to interpret sequences from human genomes.
` Q. How were you exploring how to interpret
`sequences from human genomes?
` A. Prior to 2009, my lab started to build a
`database of gene variants and how they might be
`associated with diseases.
` Q. In 2009, were the activities of your
`laboratory directed to analytics?
` MR. ROSATO: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: Is there more in your
`question --
`BY MS. DeVORE:
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 20
`
`
`
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`Page 21
`
` Q. No. That's --
` A. -- or is that the question mark there?
` Q. That was my question mark.
` A. Yes. I'll say yes.
` Q. I'll try to make my questions go up at the end
`in intonation.
` A. I'll try to make my answers that way, too.
` Q. So were you supervising a wet laboratory in
`2009?
` A. It's not even an easy question to answer
`anymore. My laboratory sends research projects to wet
`laboratories in core facilities on campus or on --
`contract research organizations. We have to supervise
`that work, even if it doesn't happen in my walls.
` Q. So in 2009, the techniques such as massively
`parallel sequencing were contracted out to core
`facilities within Stanford?
` A. Yes. I know of many that were using the
`facilities at Stanford to do massively parallel
`sequencing.
` Q. And you collaborated with the facilities that
`performed the massively parallel sequencing?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. Okay. Have you worked directly with
`DNA -- strike that.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 21
`
`
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`Page 22
` In 2009, were you working directly with DNA in
`your laboratory?
` MR. ROSATO: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: We did -- can you define by what
`you mean by "working with"? We certainly worked with
`the sequences.
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. In 2009, were you or anybody in your
`laboratory working with DNA molecules?
` MR. ROSATO: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: We were not working with the
`actual molecules in my laboratory.
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. Okay. So it's fair to say in 2009, your
`laboratory was working primarily with the sequence data
`obtained from DNA molecules?
` A. Right. Our research related to DNA was around
`that. We were doing other things, as well.
` Q. Okay.
` A. But that would be accurate.
` Q. Such as the protein base techniques and the
`drug discovery?
` A. Drug discovery, exactly.
` Q. Okay. Are you or anybody in your laboratory
`currently using Illumina products?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 22
`
`
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`Page 23
` A. To my knowledge, we're not a direct customer
`of Illumina in my laboratory.
` Q. And in 2009, were you or anybody in your
`laboratory using Illumina products?
` A. In 2009, we were not a direct customer of
`Illumina.
` Q. Okay. In 2009, were you familiar with
`Illumina's products?
` A. In 2009, I was familiar with some of
`Illumina's products.
` Q. In 2009, were you familiar with Illumina's
`products related to massively parallel sequencing?
` MR. ROSATO: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: In 2009, I was familiar with
`some of Illumina's products related to massively
`parallel sequencing.
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. Okay. So let's take a step back.
` A. Surely.
` Q. What is massively parallel sequencing?
` A. Well, I think the board might have defined
`that in their claim construction, so if I could see a
`copy of the claim construction, maybe we can search for
`it there.
` Q. The board in their claim construction? I'm --
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 23
`
`
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`Page 24
`I'm sorry. I -- I don't under- -- I don't understand.
` A. The board had a ruling on the claim
`construction regarding Claims 1 and others. So if I
`could see that document, I want to make sure that's not
`defined there.
` Q. Well, actually, I'm not asking what the board
`thinks massively parallel sequencing is. I'm actually
`asking --
` A. Oh, I'm sorry.
` Q. -- what you personally think massively
`parallel sequencing is.
` A. Sure.
` To me, massively parallel sequencing involves
`the generation of DNA sequence, typically involves
`generating shorter stretches of such sequence, but
`many short -- many short stretches of sequence at the
`same time.
` Q. Okay. And are you familiar with different
`techniques for massively parallel sequencing?
` MR. ROSATO: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: I'm familiar with some
`techniques.
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. Which massively parallel sequencing techniques
`are you familiar with?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 24
`
`
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`Page 25
` A. There many kinds of sequence techniques out
`there. I'm familiar with those that use beads, for
`example, and amplify. I'm reasonably familiar with
`those that use single molecules.
` Q. And which of the massively parallel sequencing
`techniques use the beads?
` A. Can you rephrase the question?
` Q. You stated that you were familiar with
`massively parallel sequencing that use beads, for
`example. Which of the massively parallel sequencing
`use beads?
` A. So, for example, those methods that need to
`amplify the short stretches of sequence before
`detection, they can use beads to hybridize those
`stretches and to perform amplification.
` Q. Okay. And which massively parallel sequencing
`techniques were you familiar with in 2009?
` A. In -- in 2009, we had -- we -- strike that.
` In 2009, there were two major types of
`techniques, those that needed amplification of the
`stretches and those that needed. Broadly defined,
`those were the two categories.
` Q. Can you give me examples of massively parallel
`sequencing techniques in those two categories that were
`available in 2009?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 25
`
`
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`Page 26
` A. In 2009, for example, Helicose, a company,
`offered a product, single-molecule sequencing.
` Q. Do you remember the name of the product?
` A. I don't know the -- I don't remember the exact
`name of their product, no.
` Q. And what other companies offered massively
`parallel sequencing in 2009?
` A. 454. That's a company that offered massively
`parallel sequencing. Illumina obviously is a company
`that offered single molecule -- massively parallel
`sequencing. Excuse me.
` Q. And are you aware of any other commercially
`available massively parallel sequencing in 2009?
` A. Life Technologies had a product for massively
`parallel sequencing.
` Q. So it's fair to say that in 2009, there were a
`number of different massively parallel sequencing
`techniques that were available?
` A. In 2009, several companies offered products
`for massively parallel sequencing.
` Q. Okay. So a person working in molecular
`biology in 2009 would have been familiar with the
`different available products for massively parallel
`sequencing?
` MR. ROSATO: Objection. Form.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 26
`
`
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`Page 27
`
` THE WITNESS: Now you're getting into a
`hypothetical person in molecular biology, so I'd need
`to know more about that person.
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. In 2009, would the people who were working in
`your laboratory have been familiar with different
`available products for massively parallel sequencing?
` A. In 2009, some members of my lab would have
`been aware of some of these companies and their
`products.
` Q. And you testified earlier that you worked with
`collaborators who performed massively parallel
`sequencing.
` MR. ROSATO: Objection. Form. Foundation.
` THE WITNESS: Can you tell me which time frame
`even we're talking about --
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. Be happy to.
` A. -- because you're mixing time frames.
` Q. Yeah. So in 19- -- sorry. Strike that.
` In 2009, were you working with collaborators
`that performed massively parallel sequencing
`techniques?
` A. Yes. In 2009, we were working with
`collaborators who were using massively parallel
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 27
`
`
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`Page 28
`
`sequencing techniques.
` Q. And so in 2009, those collaborators would be
`familiar with different products available for
`massively parallel sequencing?
` MR. ROSATO: Objection. Form. Foundation.
` THE WITNESS: Again, those collaborators that
`were using massively parallel sequencing techniques, I
`would guess that they would know the -- their own
`massively parallel sequencing techniques. I can't
`really comment whether they would know others. I could
`speculate.
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. Which massively parallel sequencing techniques
`were your collaborators in 2009 using?
` A. Collaborators in 2009 were using Illumina and
`also services from a company called Complete Genomics.
` Q. I've heard of Complete Genomics.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Want to take a break?
` THE WITNESS: I just want to get coffee for a
`second.
` MS. DeVORE: Well, we should -- hold on. Hold
`on.
` MR. ROSATO: Well, hold on until we take a
`break.
` MS. DeVORE: Do -- do you -- well, it -- do
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 28
`
`
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`Page 29
`
`you -- do you want to take a break to --
` THE WITNESS: No.
` MS. DeVORE: So we would like introduce Ariosa
`Exhibit 1010.
` (Deposition Exhibit No. 1010 was marked.)
` MR. ROSATO: Counsel, would you identify this
`for the record? Maybe I'm jumping ahead here.
` MS. DeVORE: I'd be happy to. So this is --
`this is a document from the company Illumina that was
`commercially available.
` MR. ROSATO: I'm going to object to this being
`outside the scope of his direct testimony.
` MS. DeVORE: Noted.
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. So, Dr. Butte, could you read the title of the
`document for the record, please.
` MR. ROSATO: Objection. Outside the scope of
`direct.
` THE WITNESS: This is the first time I'm
`really seeing this document. It's not one of the ones
`I mentioned earlier. I see the title at the top says
`"Illumina Sequencing," and then it goes on to say
`"Multiplex Sequencing with the Illumina Genome Analyzer
`System."
`BY MS. DeVORE:
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 29
`
`
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`Page 30
` Q. And so you've not seen this document before;
`is that correct?
` A. To my memory, I haven't seen this document.
` Q. And can I have your turn to the last page of
`the document, please.
` A. Of course.
` MR. ROSATO: Objection. Outside the scope of
`direct. In fact, if you don't mind, let's take a quick
`break and let's ask him to step outside the room. I
`want to have a discussion on this.
` MR. GARDELLA: On the substance of it?
` MR. ROSATO: No, on the introduction of it.
`We can stay on the record.
` Dr. Butte, if you could step out of the room.
` THE WITNESS: Okay.
` (Witness leaves room; 9:49 a.m.)
` MR. ROSATO: I'm sorry.
` MS. DeVORE: Okay.
` MR. ROSATO: So I'm concerned with the
`introduction of documents that were not considered
`during -- by the expert during his direct testimony. I
`understand that you might want to introduce new
`references to try to cure some of the defects that
`exist. I don't know what your line of questioning is
`going to be, but I'm -- I'm going to continue objecting
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 30
`
`
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`Page 31
`to the introduction. So I'm -- I'm just telling you
`now I'm pretty -- I'm pretty skeptical of the purpose
`here. So --
` MR. GARDELLA: Noted.
` MR. ROSATO: Okay.
` MR. GARDELLA: You can bring the witness back
`in if you'd like.
` (Witness enters room; 9:50 a.m.)
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. So I'd also like to hand you now Ariosa 1001.
` A. Half the pages are upside-down. Can I get
`another copy?
` Q. Oh. Apologies.
` A. Thank you.
` MR. ROSATO: Counsel, I can hand him my copy
`if you won't object.
` MS. DeVORE: Not at all.
` MR. ROSATO: I'll take that one.
` THE WITNESS: These are also upside-down.
`BY MS. DeVORE:
` Q. Okay. Well, the good news, we're going to be
`looking at the front for now.
` A. Okay. I'm sorry.
` Q. No. No apologies. We weren't trying to throw
`you or anything.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Ariosa Exhibit 1041
`pg. 31
`
`
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`Page 32
` So can I have you turn again, please, to
`Exhibit 1010.
` A. Okay.
` Q. And to look at the -- the back of the
`exhibit --
` A. I'm looking at the back.
` Q. -- at the very bottom of the page.
` A. I see the bottom.
` Q. And there is a small sec
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