trials@uspto.gov
`571-272-7822
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`IPR2014-00481, Paper No. 34
`IPR2014-00482, Paper No. 33
`June 19, 2015
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`RECORD OF ORAL HEARING
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`- - - - - -
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`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`
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`- - - - - -
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`APPLE INC.,
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`Petitioner,
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`v.
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`VIRNETX INC.,
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`Patent Owner.
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`- - - - - - -
`
`
`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Technology Center 2100
`Oral Hearing Held on Tuesday, June 2, 2015
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`
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`
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`Before: MICHAEL P. TIERNEY, KARL D. EASTHOM, and
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`STEPHEN C. SIU, Administrative Patent Judges.
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`
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`The above-entitled matter came on for hearing on Tuesday, June 2,
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`2015, at 2:00 p.m., in Hearing Room A, taken at the U.S. Patent and
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`Trademark Office, 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, Virginia.
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`APPEARANCES:
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`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
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`JEFFREY P. KUSHAN, ESQ.
`SCOTT M. BORDER, ESQ.
`Sidley Austin LLP
`1501 K Street, N.W.
`Washington, D.C. 20005
`202-736-8000
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`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
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`JOSEPH E. PALYS, ESQ.
`NAVEEN MODI, ESQ.
`DANIEL ZEILBERGER, ESQ.
`Paul Hastings LLP
`875 15th Street, N.W.
`Washington, D.C. 20005
`202-551-1700
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`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
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`P R O C E E D I N G S
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`( 2:00 p . m. )
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`J UDGE TI ER NEY: Pl e ase be s e ate d . We lc o me ,
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`e ve r yo ne , fo r toda y' s h ea rin g in IPR 2014 -00 481 and
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`I P R20 14 - 00482 . At tod a y' s h ea ring ea ch s id e is p r es ent ed
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`wi th h al f an hou r.
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`I woul d ex pe ct t od a y th at we ar e goi ng to s ta rt
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`wi th P e t itio ne r , fol lo wed b y P a te nt Owne r . If the r e is r ebut ta l
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`b y P e tit ion er , th at will fol lo w it . And we wi ll allow f o r
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`c los ing st at e me n ts s hould P at ent Own e r wish a clos ing
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`st at e me n t tod a y.
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`B e c aus e th e iss ues a re s i mi la r t o thos e wh ich we
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`h av e se en b e fo re , e a ch s ide was al lot te d 30 mi nut es .
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`Ho wev er , if ei ther sid e fe els th at th at i s too cons tr ain ing up on
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`to da y, l e t us kn ow a nd we woul d b e wil ling to c onsi de r go ing
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`a lit tl e long e r but, a ga in , you und er st and t ha t th e issu es to da y
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`a r e si mi l a r to thos e th at h a v e b een p re se nte d be fo r e.
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`B ut b e for e we b egi n , a r e th er e an y is su es o f a
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`p ro ced ur al n atu r e th at we n e ed to ta ke c ar e o f to da y, st a rti ng
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`wi th P et itio ne r?
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`M R . KUS HAN: Ye s , You r Hon or . On e ma t te r is
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`we h ave a p endi ng mo ti on , a pr o ha c ad mi ss ion o f M r . Bo rd er ,
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`a nd we woul d like yo u t o poss ibl y a c t on th at b e ca us e we we r e
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`in te nding M r . Bor de r t o pr ovid e rema r k s tod a y. This mo t ion
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`wa s fil ed in M a y a nd we b eli eve it is su ff ici en t .
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`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
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`J UDGE TI ER NEY: Is the r e an y o b je ctio ns to the
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`a d mi ssi on?
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`M R . P ALYS: No, You r Ho nor .
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`J UDGE TI ER NEY: The P ane l h as t ak en th e ma t te r
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`un de r c onsid e ra tion and the mo t ion i s g ran ted . Thank yo u .
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`Ar e the r e a n y othe r situ ati ons th at we n eed to t ake
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`c a r e of tod a y? Pa t ent Own e r , is th er e an yt hing yo u wish to
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`r a ise?
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`M R . P ALYS: No , You r Ho nor .
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`J UDGE TI ER NEY: All righ t . We wi ll b egin with
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`th e Pe tit ione r . Ple as e b egi n whe n yo u a re r ea d y.
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`M R . B OR DER : Th ank yo u , You r Hon or .
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`J UDGE TI ER NEY: Wo uld yo u lik e to r ese rv e an y
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`t i me f or r ebut tal to da y?
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`M R . B OR DER : Ye s , You r Hon or . I p l an on
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`t aki ng a bout 20 mi n ut es , so hop e ful l y a bout 1 0 mi nut es fo r
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`r eb utt al .
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`J UDGE TI ER NEY: Than k you .
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`M R . B OR DER : Goo d a ft e rnoon , You r Ho nor s , an d
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`ma y i t pl e as e th e B oa rd . We a r e he r e to dis cuss t wo
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`p ro ce edi ngs th at a r e l ist ed a bov e , 20 14 - 00481 and 482 . This
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`in volv es U. S . Pate nt Nu mb e r 7 ,188, 18 0 . I f ok a y I wi ll jus t
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`r e f er to it as t he '18 0 pa ten t .
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`S lid e 7 , p le as e . Th e fi rst p ro ce edin g , th e 481
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`p ro ce edi ng , p ri ma r il y r e li es on t he r e f er en ce P rovi no , wh ic h
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`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
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`is a U. S . p at ent , Exh ibit 1003 . And as yo u c a n s e e , th e
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`g roun ds a r e b ased o n both ant ic ipa tio n an d obvio usn ess .
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`S lid e 53 . Pl e as e . I n th e 482 pr oc ee ding it re lie d
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`p ri ma r i l y on t he Ki uch i r e fe r enc e a nd i t , too , i nvolv ed
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`g roun ds b ase d on a nti cip at ion and ob vious nes s .
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`And as Your Hono r ju st me nt ion ed, th e re a re
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`si mi l a r is sue s f rom p r io r pr oc e edings . So o ur fo cus to da y - -
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`i f you c an go to sl ide 2 - - is just goi ng to b e on the un iqu e
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`is su es r ai sed in th es e t wo p ro ce edin gs .
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`And so wh at we ha ve tr ied to do h er e is p rovid e a
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`sh or t ro ad ma p of wh at we b eli ev e a r e th e un iqu e
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`p ro ce edi ngs -- exc us e me , th e un iqu e is sue s r ais ed in t hes e
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`t wo pr oc ee dings , a nd I wil l br ie fl y a dd re ss e a ch on e .
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`C ould yo u go to sl ide 3 , pl eas e . And so wh at we
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`h av e don e h er e is we ' ve put cl ai m 1 , t he '27 4 pa te nt, n ext to
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`c l ai m 1 of th e ' 180 p at ent .
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`And just to id ent if y s o me o f the dif f e re nc es and
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`th e s i mi la ri tie s , ea ch pa ten t c lai ms s endi ng a que r y me s s ag e
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`to a s e cur e do ma i n s e rv er . Ea ch pa t ent cl ai ms r e ceivi ng f ro m
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`a se cu r e do ma i n n a me s e rvi ce a resp ons e me ss ag e . And e ac h
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`p at ent d es c rib es se ndin g an a cc ess r eq ue st me ss ag e us ing a
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`vi rt ual pr iva te n et work link and , of co ur se , ea ch a re di r ec ted
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`to me t hod s o f a cce ssi ng a se cu re ne t wo rk add re ss .
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`Go to sli de 1 3 , ple as e . We h ave high light ed o ne
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`o f th e p ri ma r y d i ff e r enc es b et we en th e '180 and th e '27 4 , an d
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`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
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`th at 's the exp li cit r eq ui re me n t th at th e re is th e re c eipt of a
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`s ec ur e do ma i n n ame p r i or to tho se f ou r st eps , ex cuse me ,
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`th r ee st eps .
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`I shou ld not e t hat th e re a re t wo addi tion al
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`in dep end ent cl aims i n this p at ent . Th e y e a ch t ak e di f fe r ent
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`f o r m b ut th e y a ll h av e th e s a me f ou r st eps . I b eli eve th e y
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`h av e be en add r ess ed b y P a t ent Own er as a g roup and s o we a re
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`on l y goi ng to addr e ss c la i m 1 . And we th ink th e y sho uld ris e
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`a nd fa ll tog et he r .
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`I f yo u can go to sl ide 7 , pl eas e . On ce ag ain this is
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`th e ov e rvi e w sl ide so I woul d lik e to st ar t with the 481
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`p ro ce edi ng whi ch is th e pr oc e eding in volv ing Pro vino . An d
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`b ef or e I do th at I wou ld li ke t o give a v e r y b ri ef expl an atio n
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`o f wh at i s dis close d in P rovin o .
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`I f yo u can go to sl ide 8 . T his is a n e mb o di me n t o f
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`P r ovino and it is f a ir l y si mp l e . Devi c e 12 -M d es ir es to
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`s ec ur el y c o mmu n i c ate with s e rv er 31 - S . And t he wa y i t doe s
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`th is is ove r t he Int e rne t 14 i t en gage s in a di alo gue wi th
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`f i re wal l 30 .
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`F i re wal l 30 auth ent ic at es and autho ri ze s de vi ce
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`12 - M to co mmu n ic a te within the vir tu al p riv at e n et wo rk . It
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`a lso ide nti fi es in th e bo tto m r i ght -h and co rne r , VP N n a me
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`s e rve r 32 . It sends a qu e r y me s s ag e to VP N n a me se rv e r 32
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`us ing a hu ma n - rea da bl e na me , a n d th at r etu rns t he IP a ddr ess
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`o f s er ve r 3 1 - S . Th at 's ho w P rov ino wo rks .
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`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
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`I f yo u could g o to s lid e 13 . So , ag ain , let 's fo cus
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`on this , r ec eiv ing a s ecu r e do ma i n n a me , t his cl ai m e l e me nt .
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`And slid e 14 , plea se . So the Bo a rd - - so , You r
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`Hon ors , yo u const ru ed s ec ur e do ma in n a me t o be a n a me th at
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`c or r espo nds to a s ec ur e co mp ut er n et wo rk add re ss . And th en
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`a se cu r e co mp u ter ne t wo rk add res s is an add r ess th at r equi r es
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`a utho ri z atio n fo r a c c ess .
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`And if yo u could go ba ck to slid e 13 . So wh at we
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`n ee d to sh o w h ere is re c eivi ng a na me t h at co rr esp ond s to an
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`a dd re ss th at re quir e s au tho ri zat ion f o r a cc es s .
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`And if yo u go to sl id e 15 , we be li ev e th is is s ho wn
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`in P rovi no . I n the P rov ino s ys t e m, in ord e r to init iat e th is
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`di al ogu e th at ul tima t e l y r e su lts i n a se cu r e co mmu n ic a tion
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`wi th th e 31 - S , it b egin s a s sho wn h er e i n co lu mn 11 , l in e 5
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`th rou gh 25 , with a hu ma n - re ad abl e I nt er ne t ad dr ess is
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`p rovi ded b y th e op er at or o f d evi c e 12 - M .
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`And as we st at ed e a rli e r , wit h r espe c t to -- c an you
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`go ba ck to slid e 8, pl e as e? The h uma n - r e ad abl e addr e ss is the
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`a dd re ss o f se rv e r 31 - S . As we s aid, i t r equi r es author i zat ion
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`f r o m f i re wal l 30 in o rd e r to g et wi thi n th at vi rt ual priv at e
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`n et wo rk .
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`S o we be li eve that 's al l we n e ed to sh o w to s ati sf y
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`th e l i mi ta tion u nd er th e Bo a rd 's con st ruc tion .
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`J UDGE EAS THOM : So d evi ce 1 2 -M r e cei ves it , is
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`th at wha t you ' re sa yi ng?
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`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
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`M R . B OR DER : Th e d evi ce 12 - M r e c eiv es it f ro m
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`th e op e ra to r of the de vi ce .
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`J UDGE EAS THOM : Th ank yo u .
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`M R . B OR DER : Le t 's go ba ck t o th e sl ide 2 ,
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`pl e as e . Th e ne xt un iqu e issu e re la te s to cl ai ms 10 and 26 .
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`And we h av e put th ose in sl ide 41 . And this is th e d ep end ent
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`c l ai ms f ro m 1 a nd 1 7 an d th e y st ate , e sse nti all y, wh e r ein the
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`vi rt ual pr iva te n et work inc lud es the In te rn et .
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`I f we go ba ck t o sl id e 8 , h er e right in th e mi ddl e is
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`I nt er ne t 14 . Th e vi rt ual pr iva te n e t work is ext end ed th rou gh
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`th at to d evi ce 1 2 -M . I d on 't th ink th e re is a lot o f amb i gu it y
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`a bout this .
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`Le t 's s e e , c an we go ba ck to slid e 2, pl e as e . Th e
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`n ext u niqu e is sue th at Appl e ha s ide nti fi ed i n th e 481
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`p ro ce edi ng r el at es t o c lai ms 1 2 and 2 8 . And i f we c ould go to
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`sl id e 29 , wh at Prov ino d es cr ibe s is a fte r t he s e cu re
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`c o mmu n ic ati on link is e st abli she d wi th s er ve r 31 - S , th at
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`d evi c e c an us e the I P add re ss to g en er at e me s sa ge pa ck et s fo r
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`t r ans mi ss ion to th at s e rve r .
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`And if yo u go to 31 , this u p ab ove d es cr ibe s on e of
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`th e t hings tha t s er ve r 3 1 - S can be . I t can be a st or ag e s er ve r .
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`And as exp lai ned in Dr . Gu e rin 's de c la r ation , be ca us e it is a
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`st or ag e s er ve r th at me a n s it p rov ide s in fo r ma t ion tha t is
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`r eq ue ste d b y a c lie nt .
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`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
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`I t is al so e xpli cit h er e i n P rov ino wh en i t sa ys a
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`s e rve r i s to p rovid e in fo r ma t ion to th e cli ent . And th at 's i n
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`P r ovino at col u mn 6 , lin es 34 to - - e xc use me , 3 5 t o 47 .
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`And if we ca n go to slid e 32 we also ask ed Pa ten t
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`Own e r' s e xpe rt wh eth e r on e of th e r e aso ns woul d be f o r
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`t r ans mi tt ing me s sa ge pa ck ets t o s erv er 31 -S . An d he a gr e ed
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`th at one of t he r ea sons would b e to re que st ac c ess to wh at ev er
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`in fo r ma t ion i s stor ed th er e .
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`C an we g o ba ck to s lid e 2 , pl e ase . No w, the fi nal
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`un iqu e issu e wi th r e spe ct to th e 481 p ro ce ed ing re lat es t o
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`c l ai ms 4 , 6 , 20 , 22 and 3 5 and 37 . I wil l sho w yo u c l ai ms 4
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`a nd 6 , b e cau se the y a r e v er y s i mi la r to th e oth e r t wo .
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`I be li eve slid e 46, pl e as e . So cl aim 4 r equ ir es
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`" whe r ein t he re spon se me s s age cont ain s pr ovis ioning
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`in fo r ma t ion . " Cla i m 6 d epen ds from c l ai m 4 a nd , amo n g o the r
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`th ings , inc lud es th at at l e ast , in one da ta pa ck et , at le as t on e
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`d at a v alu e r ep re se nts a p re de te r mi n ed l ev el o f s er vic e .
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`S lid e 47 , ple as e . Th e Boa rd cons tru ed
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`p rovi sion ing in for ma t i on to b e i nfo r ma t ion th at is pr ovid ed to
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`e na bl e or aid in est ab lishi ng c o mmun ic ati ons to oc cu r in the
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`VP N. And what we h ave sho wn i s th at P rovi no in vi e w o f
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`Gu ill en di scl ose s th is p rovi sion ing in fo r ma t ion .
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`I f yo u can go to sl ide 48 , pl ea se . And so wh at
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`Gu ill en sho ws is wh at i t c al ls t wo ES s , o r End S ys tems , b ut it
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`e xpl ain s th at th e y c an not b e -- tha t th e conn e ction be t ween th e
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`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
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`t wo c anno t be obta in ed un til ce rt ain ch ar a cte ri sti cs a r e
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`n egot ia ted . And in this inst an ce th es e r equ ir e me n ts a re
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`n egot ia ted dur ing th e co mmu n ic at ion pat h se t - up pha se , in th e
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`l ast sen te nc e o f th e hig hligh te d issu e th e re .
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`And so wh at th e do cto r found was th at it wou ld
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`h av e be en o bvious t o mo di f y P rov ino 's VP N 1 5 to requ ir e
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`th es e so rt o f re qui r e me nts fo r th e -- in o rd er to est abl ish t he
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`c o mmu n ic ati on , th e s ecu r e c o mmu ni c atio n se ssio n in s e rv er
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`31 - S .
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`And Guill en a ctua ll y e xp la ins ho w th is wou ld b e
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`i mp l e me n ted , and Dr . Gu er in poi nts t o thi s , an d thi s is f ro m
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`S e ct ion 2 .3 o f Gui lle n . And wh at Dr . Gu er in e xpl ains is th at
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`yo u c an mo di f y th e n a me s er ve r 32 t o r esp ond bot h wi th th e
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`I P add r ess o f th e s e rve r 31 - S a nd th e qu ali t y o f se rvi c e
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`p ar a me t e rs .
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`And th at 's b ec ause in Gu ill en it expl ai ns th at on e
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`wa y t o do thi s is b y u sing a di r ec to r y s e rvi ce to r etu rn th es e
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`qu al it y o f s er vic e p ar a me t e rs wh en th e IP add r ess i s r e tur ned .
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`And I s hould n ote th at th e qu al it y o f s er vic e
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`in fo r ma t ion i s a lso a p red et e r mi ned l ev el o f s e rvi ce
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`in fo r ma t ion as the kind des c rib ed in cl ai m 6 . I f yo u go ba ck
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`to 46 , pl e ase . This qua lit y o f se rvic e inf or ma t ion wou ld a lso
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`r ep r es ent at l e ast on e d at a v alu e r ep r e se nting a p r ede t er mi n ed
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`l ev el o f s er vic e .
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`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
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`J UDGE EAS THOM : C an yo u jus t a dd re ss P at ent
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`Own e r' s a rgu me n t q ui ckl y t hat Guil len wouldn 't sugg est d oing
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`th is af te r you se t up - - th er e was a t i mi ng iss ue about the
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`vi rt ual ne t wor k . I don 't b el iev e I st at ed i t c o r re ct l y.
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`M R . B OR DER : Ye s , You r Hon or . S lid e 8 , p le as e .
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`I be li eve wha t P at ent Owne r is sa yin g is t hat Guil len re qui re s
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`th at yo u n egot iate thi s co mmu n i cat ion li nk du ring th e s etup
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`ph as e . And the y a r e po intin g a t the lin k be t we en fi re wa ll 30
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`a nd d evi c e 1 2 -M , bu t th at 's no t wha t we' r e poi nting to .
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`We ' r e poi nting to th e end -to - end se cu r e
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`c o mmu n ic ati on link bet we en d evi ce 12 -M and s e rv er 31 -S . So
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`th e n ego tia tion tha t h app ens wi th th e VP N na me s e rv er to
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`d et er mi n e t he I P a dd re ss o f se rv e r 31 - S , th at 's t he m o me n t in
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`wh ich Guill en woul d ins e rt it se lf and r etu rn so me o f th is
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`qu al it y o f s er vic e c ha r ac te ris ti cs .
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`J UDGE EAS THOM : In oth e r wo rds , yo u a r e
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`t r yi ng to n ego ti ate wh at 31 - S would p rov ide?
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`M R . B OR DER : You a re neg oti ating wha t th e
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`a c tua l ad dr ess of 31 - S is . On l y VP N n a me s e rve r 3 2 h as th e
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`a dd re ss o f se rv e r 31 - S . S o pr io r to r e c eivin g th at the r e is no
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`wa y t o co mmu n i ca t e with se rv er 31 - S .
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`Go b a ck to slid e 2 . So t hos e a r e th e onl y u niq ue
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`is su es we 'v e i dent ifi ed fo r th e 481 p ro ce edi ng . I f t he r e ar e no
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`f u rt h er q ue stion s I a m g o ing to mo v e on t o th e 482 p ro ce edi ng
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`in volvi ng Kiu chi .
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`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
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`
`Le t 's ju mp to sl ide 53 , pl e as e . And h e re a re the
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`g roun ds inv olv ed in th e 482 p ro cee ding . I ' m g oin g to add r ess
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`Ki uch i r e al qui ckl y, a b a ckg round , a qui ck ov e rvi e w o f th e
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`Ki uch i sc he me .
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`C an yo u go to 54 , pl e as e . And th is e ss enti al l y
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`su mma r i z e s Kiu chi . It is a cl ie nt -si de p ro x y th at
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`c o mmu n ic at es with th e se rv e r -s id e p rox y, a nd it in vol ves wha t
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`a r e ca lle d C - HTTP c o mmu ni c atio ns , wh ic h is s e cur e e nc r yp te d
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`p roto co l , an d it i s ma n ag ed b y a C -HTTP n a me s e rver . I t is a
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`f a ir l y si mp l e s ys te m.
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`And if we coul d go to - - l et 's go to s lid e 55 . So ,
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`a ga in , we' r e goi ng t o look at wheth er or not Kiu ch i di sc los es
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`r e c eivin g a se cu re do ma i n na me . As yo u re ca ll , a se cu r e
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`do ma i n n a me , i t re qui r es r e ce iving a na me t h at co rre spon ds to
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`a n a ddr es s th at requ ir es auth or iz ation fo r ac ce ss .
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`56 , ple as e . So this is Ki uch i . This i s f ro m p a ge
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`65 in S e ctio n 2 .3 o f Kiu chi . And wh at i t d esc rib es is an end
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`us e r e nte ri ng a n HTM L li nk , f or wa rd ing t hat to th e c li ent -si de
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`p rox y. An d th is lin k co nt ains a numb e r o f in fo r ma t ion it e ms .
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`I t h as a r eso ur ce n a me a nd a co nnec tio n I D. The
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`i mp o rt ant p a rt i s th e re sou rc e n a me . And wh at we 'v e
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`un de rli ned the r e is t he h ost n a me . And th at is the hos t na me
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`o f th e s er ve r -sid e p rox y. Th e sa mpl e abou t HTM L is th e
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`a c tua l f ile th at the y a r e s eek ing t o us e .
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`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
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`
`And th at hos t name , i f yo u c an g o to slid e 58 , and
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`so wha t ha ppe ns in t he C - HTTP s yst e m i s th e C - HTTP n a me
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`s e rve r re cog niz es th at host n a me a s o ne t ha t is di r ect ed t o an
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`e nt i t y ins id e a clos ed n et work . And so it mu s t ch ec k wh eth er
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`o r not it i s pe r mi tt ed t o co mmu n i cat e .
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`And it do es t his and , as yo u c an s ee , it i s not
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`hi ghlig ht ed but abo ut th r ee d o wn it s a ys if it 's no t pe r mi t te d it
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`s ends a s tat us c od e whi ch i ndi ca tes an er r o r .
`
`S o th e C - HTTP na me s e r ve r che cks wh et he r o r not
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`th e us e r , so r r y, the c lie nt p rox y i s a utho ri z ed to g o to t he
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`a dd re ss th at 's s pec i fie d . S o we think this ma p s to - - i f you
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`c an go b ack to 55 - - we t hink un der th e b roa des t r e aso nab le
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`in te rp r eta tion this p r ett y e f f ic ien tly ma p s to r ec eiv ing the
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`s ec ur e do ma i n n ame .
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`B a ck t o slid e 2 , pl e ase . The las t uni que issu e wi th
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`r e spe ct to th e 482 p ro ce edi ng inv olv es Ki uch i in v iew o f
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`Ta vs .
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`Le t 's go to 84 , p le as e . We s a w this cl ai m b e fo r e ,
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`th is is cl ai m 6 , a nd , a g ain , it inv olv es at l e ast o ne d at a p ack et ,
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`a t l ea st on e d at a v alu e rep r es enting a p red et e r mi ned l ev el o f
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`s e rvi ce ass oci at ed with th e VP N.
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`And if we go to 86 , s o wha t Ta vs de sc ri bes is
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`si mi l a r to C - HTTP . I t is a c li ent -sid e/ se rv er -s ide prox y
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`s ys t e m t hat invo lv es s ett ing up commu n i c at ions b etwe e n t wo
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`e nti ti es .
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`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
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`Wh a t th e y a ls o dis clo se i n Ta vs is th e us e o f a
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`t yp e o f s e rvi ce byt e . I sho uld no te th at th e t yp e of s e rvi ce
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`b yt e is not unique to Tavs . This is p a rt o f , a st anda rd pa rt o f
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`a n I P h e ade r i n an I P pa ck et . It ha s b een a round sin ce th e
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`e a rl y ' 8 0s .
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`And if we go to -- st a y th e re . Actu all y g o to 9 0 .
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`And so wh at Kiu chi exp la ine d , what Kiuc hi t ell s us is t ha t it
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`a l re ad y h as this abi lit y t o exa mi n e th e cont ent s of dat a ob je cts
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`f o r c e rta in t yp es o f me d ia , and t hen t ha t' s wh y yo u wou ld us e
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`a se rv ic e p ar a me t e r to , f or inst an ce, bu mp up ban d widt h i f it
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`is so me t hing t ha t is ban d widt h - int ens ive , or in th e ca se of
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`Ki uch i , wha t it do es wi th i ma g e and sound is it a ctu all y s t ar ts
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`t r ans fe r ring it b efo re it h as re c eiv ed t he ent ir e fil e .
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`And this is so it ca n - - b e cau se o f th e si z e of th e
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`do cu me n ts , i t t rans f er s it ea rl y s o i t c an g et t o th e re c eiv ing
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`e nti t y soo ne r . And als o Kiu chi n ot es t hat th e y pl an to
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`i mp l e me n t r outine s whi ch ch eck the co nt ents o f ob jec t bod i e s .
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`Ag ain , this is so rt o f I P he ad er /I P p ac ke t
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`t e chnol og y wh er e yo u would si mp ly l o ok in to th e IP p ac ke t ,
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`s ee wha t t yp e o f qu al it y o f s er vic e o r p re det e r mi ne d l ev el o f
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`s e rvi ce is n ec ess ar y, a n d c at ego ri ze th e t ran s mi ssion b as ed on
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`th at se rvi c e .
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`And so we thin k thi s me a ns th at Kiu chi 's C - HTTP
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`c onn ec tion would b e b ase d on a p re de te r mi n ed l ev el o f s er vic e
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`in vi e w of Tav s and r end er ing cl aims 6 , 22 and 37 obv ious .
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`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
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`I f we ca n go b ac k to slid e 2 . An d , You r Ho nor s ,
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`th ose a re th e onl y un iqu e issu es that we h a v e id enti fie d f or
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`th e 48 1 an d 482 pr oc e edin g . I ' m h a pp y t o an s we r an y
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`qu est ions abou t thi s o r an yt hin g els e .
`
`J UDGE TI ER NEY: No qu esti ons f r o m t he Bo ar d .
`
`Th ank yo u .
`
`M R . B OR DER : Th ank yo u , You r Hon ors .
`
`J UDGE TI ER NEY: P at ent Own e r, s et up and
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`wh en ev e r yo u a r e r e ad y, p le as e b egi n .
`
`M R . P ALYS: May i t pl ea se the Boa rd . M y n a me
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`is Jos eph Pa l ys . I r ep r ese nt th e Pat ent Owne r in th es e
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`p ro ce edi ngs .
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`I ' m jo i n ed tod a y wi th my c o ll eag ue s Nave en Modi
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`a nd Dan Zeilb e rge r . I wou ld li ke to re se rv e rough l y 10 -15
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`mi n ut es dep end ing o n ho w th is go es .
`
`S o on s lid e 2 you c an se e th e i ssu es r ega rdi ng th e
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`48 1 an d 482 ma t te r s . As c ouns el fo r App le h as p oint ed ou t ,
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`th e 48 1 r el at es to is su es r el at ing to P r ovino and the 48 2
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`ma t t e r re la tes to iss ues r el atin g to Ki uch i .
`
`S lid e 3 s ho ws you cl ai m 1 . I won 't walk th rough it
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`a ga in . I kno w Appl e 's coun sel has do ne t ha t , but i t is t he r e
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`f o r r e fe r enc e . But just p oint ing out , ag ain , we h av e th e s e cur e
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`do ma i n n a me a nd th is is sue th at the r e is a co rr espo nd en ce
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`b et wee n th e s ecu re d o ma i n na me a nd the se cu re comp u t e r
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`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
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`n et wo rk add re ss . Ot he r ind ep end ent cl ai ms t hat a re r e la ted to
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`c l ai m 1 in clud e 17 t o 33 .
`
`I wil l st ar t with th e 482 , issu es re la tin g to
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`P r ovino . On sli de 5 we se e , aga in , th es e is sue s a c ross an
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`a nti cip at ion po sitio n an d an obvious nes s posi tion as i den ti fi ed
`
`on slid e 5 .
`
`On s lid e 6 , th e re is a s u mma r y o f a nu mb e r of
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`is su es th at Pa te nt Own e r be li eve s ar e in pl a y h e re with r esp ec t
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`to th e 482 ma t te r . I ' m o n l y go ing to fo cus on just a f e w of
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`th e m f o r p urp oses o f t oda y.
`
`To b eg in wit h , we ' ll s ta rt on slid e 7 . Ag ai n , you
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`wi ll s ee cl ai m 1 he r e wi th th e t er m " se cu re co mp ut e r n et wo rk
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`a dd re ss" h ighl ight ed , and , ag ain , to re in for c e thi s issu e th at
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`th e s e cur e co mp ut e r ne t wo rk a ddr ess is cor r espon ding to th e
`
`s ec ur e do ma i n n ame t h a t you s e e and in c la i m 1 .
`
`Th e d ec ision - - on e o f th e f ir st is su es re ga rdin g
`
`th is li mi t a tion i s th at , in ou r vi e w, we b eli ev e th e de c ision is
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`ma k i ng a mi x - up in so me wa ys whe n it r ef e rs to c ert ain
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`l i mi ta tions in th e c l ai ms on wh at it is id ent if yi ng for Kiu chi
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`to me e t th e li mi t at ions o f th e cl ai ms .
`
`And in p ar ti cul ar , th e re c eivi ng o f a se cu r e do ma i n
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`n a me , i n c er ta in a sp ec ts , we be liev e th at we re ad th e d ec ision
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`a s id ent if yi ng t he a dd re ss o f th e host , whi ch we r ea d a s th e
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`o rig in s erv e r .
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`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
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`And th en with r esp ec t to t he fi rst and se cond
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`s endi ng st ep and th e s e cond re c eivin g st ep you will s ee a
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`r e f er en ce to th e add r ess o f th e s e rve r -si de p ro x y.
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`S o we be li eve that the r e is a mi x -up . It do es n' t
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`t r ack fu ll y wi th wh at i s be ing po int ed to in t e r ms of wh at is
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`th e s e cur e do ma i n n a me a nd wh at is th e se cu r e co mpu te r
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`n et wo rk add re ss . And th at 's in o ur r e spons e rough l y a ro und
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`p ag es 30 t o 32 .
`
`And this dist inc tion is i mp o rt ant , as yo u c an s e e
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`h er e on slid e 8 , be c aus e it r el at es to t he ass oci at ion th at we
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`b eli ev e Appl e m a k es wi th res pe ct to Kiuc hi a nd ho w i t ap pli es
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`th es e cla i m t e r ms , me a ni ng th e s ecu re do ma i n na me a nd th en
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`i ts c or r espond en ce to t he s e cu re d oma i n o r th e se cu re
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`n et wo rk - - se cu r e c o mp ut er net work add re ss . Ex cuse me .
`
`I ma y r e f e r to some o f t hes e t e r ms a s S DN in
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`sh or tha nd , so p lea se le t me kno w if yo u d on 't und e rst and
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`wh ich te r m I ' m r e f e r ring to .
`
`I t is i mp or tan t to po int ou t th at in Ki uch i , thi s
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`a r tic le des c rib es a C - HTTP s ys t e m, a nd yo u hav e a us e r a gen t
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`on one end and you hav e th e o rig in s e rv er o n an oth e r . And
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`th e o rig in s er ve r is whe r e th e r es ou rc es a re loc at ed . Th e us e rs
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`a r e req ues ting r esou r ce s lo ca ted at th at ori gin s e rve r.
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`Ki uch i de sc rib es th at yo u can h av e th es e p roxi es ,
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`th e cli ent -s ide p rox y a n d th e se rv er - sid e p rox y, bu t i t is b eing
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`i mp l e me n t ed in an envi ron me n t whe r e fi re wall s a lr ea d y e xis t .
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`Case No. IPR2014-00481 (Patent 7,188,180)
`Case No. IPR2014-00482 (Patent 7,188,180)
`
`
`And to p ar ti cip ate in t he C - HTTP n a me s e rvi ce
`
`th at Kiu chi d es crib es , yo u b asi ca lly r e g ist e r you r p rox ies on
`
`th es e exis ting fi re wa lls and yo u r egi st er it a nd you wo rk wi th
`
`th e C- HTTP na me se rv ic e to do t ha t .
`
`B ut wi th th e C - HTTP s er vi ce o