Trials@uspto.gov
`571-272-7822
`
`
`Paper No. 65
`Entered: October 2, 2015
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`
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`RECORD OF ORAL HEARING
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`- - - - - -
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`- - - - - -
`
`
`
`ERICSSON INC. and
`
`TELEFONAKTIEBOLAGET LM ERICSSON,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`v.
`
`INTELLECTUAL VENTURES I LLC,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`
`
`- - - - - - -
`Cases IPR2014-00921 and IPR2014-01149
`Patent 6,023,783
`- - - - - - -
`
`Oral Hearing Held on Wednesday, August 26, 2015
`
`
`
`Before: JOSIAH C. COCKS; WILLIAM A. CAPP; and DAVID C.
`
`McKONE (via video link), Administrative Patent Judges.
`
`
`
`The above-entitled matter came on for hearing on Wednesday, August
`26, 2015, at 10:00 a.m., in Hearing Room A, taken at the U.S. Patent and
`Trademark Office, 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, Virginia.
`
`

`
`Cases IPR2014-00921 and IPR2014-01149
`Patent 6,023,783
`
`APPEARANCES:
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`CHARLES J. ROGERS, ESQ.
`Conley Rose P.C.
`1001 McKinney Street
`Suite 1800
`Houston, Texas 77002-6417
`713-238-8000
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`
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`
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`
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`
`
`J. ROBERT BROWN, ESQ.
`Conley Rose P.C.
`Granite Park Three
`5601 Granite Parkway
`Suite 500
`Plano, Texas 75024-6608
`972-731-2288
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`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`LORI A. GORDON, ESQ.
`STEVEN W. PETERS, PH.D., ESQ.
`Sterne Kessler Goldstein Fox
`1100 New York Avenue, N.W.
`Washington, D.C. 20005
`202-371-2600
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`Cases IPR2014-00921 and IPR2014-01149
`Patent 6,023,783
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`P R O C E E D I N G S
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`( 10:0 0 a . m. )
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`J UDGE C OC KS: Goo d mo rn ing . Th is is a
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`c onso lid at ed o ra l a rg u me nt fo r t wo p ro ce edi ngs ,
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`I P R20 14 - 00921 and 01149 , b oth invo lving P at ent 6 ,02 3 ,783 .
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`Le t 's b egi n with h avin g P eti tion e r 's coun se l
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`in tr odu ce t he ms e lv es fo r th e r e cor d.
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`M R . R OGER S: Goo d mo rn ing . Ch ar le s Ro ge rs ,
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`b ac k up couns el , a nd l e ad c ouns el , R ob er t B ro wn .
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`J UDGE C OC KS: Th ank yo u , M r . R og er s .
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`J UDGE M c KONE: I ' m s or r y. C ould yo u sp e ak
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`in to th e mi c ro phon e a t th e pod iu m? I c anno t h ea r you i f yo u
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`do n' t . Th ank you.
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`M R . R OGER S: Ye s . Cha rl es Rog er s , b ack up
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`c ouns el fo r th e Pe tit ion er s , an d I ha ve with me h e r e to da y
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`M r . Rob e rt Bro wn , l e ad couns el .
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`J UDGE C OC KS: Th ank yo u , M r . R og er s . And fo r
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`P a ten t Own er?
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`M S . GOR DON: You r Ho nor , Lor i Go rdon f ro m
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`th e l a w fi r m o f Ste rn e Kess le r Golds te in & Fox . I 'm l e ad
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`c ouns el fo r Pat ent Own e r . And I 'm h e r e tod a y wi th St ev e
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`P e te rs , also f ro m S t ern e Kess le r .
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`J UDGE C OC KS: Al l r ight . Th ank yo u , Ms .
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`Go rdon . As we se t for th in the tr ia l h ea rin g o rde r , e a ch s ide
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`h as 60 mi n ut es o f a rg u me nt ti me . P e titi one r wi ll go f i rst and
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`Cases IPR2014-00921 and IPR2014-01149
`Patent 6,023,783
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`a rg ue the ir c ase a nd ma y r e s e rve r ebu tt al ti me . P a t ent Owne r
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`wi ll th en ar gue the i r oppo sitio n . And we wi ll con clud e wit h
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`P e titi one r us ing an y r e but tal ti me .
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`S o , M r . Rog er s , wh en ev er yo u a r e r e ad y, o r
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`who ev e r is p r esent ing ma y b e g in . And , as Judg e Mc Kon e
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`me n t ion ed , h e i s jo ining us , I be li ev e , fro m De t r oit , pl e as e
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`sp e ak in to th e mi c ro phon e a nd whe n you a re r ef e rr ing to th e
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`sl id e de ck p le as e id en tif y t h e sli de nu mb e r s .
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`M R . R OGER S: Goo d mo rn ing . Fo r th e 60 mi n ute s
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`o f a llot te d ti me I wou ld li ke t o r ese rv e 20 mi n ut es fo r
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`r eb utt al .
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`J UDGE C OC KS: Th ank yo u .
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`M R . R OGER S: Th e '783 p at ent at is su e in th is
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`c as e re la tes to er ro r c or r ec tion codin g . Mo r e pa rt icul a rl y
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`tu rbo cod es . And th e '783 pa ten t su mma r y o f th e inv ent ion
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`s a ys tha t - - i t is in t he Su mma r y o f I nv enti on s ect io n - - an d it
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`s a ys tha t th e inv ent ion en co mp as ses s ev e ral i mp ro ved
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`a pp ar atu ses and me t h ods fo r tu rbo c od es .
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`M or e p a rti cul ar l y, th e cl ai ms r e cite va ri ous
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`i mp l e me n ta tions o f tu rbo cod ing , in clud ing mu lt il eve l
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`mo d ul at ion , t r ellis - cod ed mo dul ation , using mu l ti ple da ta
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`so ur c es , tu rbo codi ng a se cond da ta lin e , s e ria l r athe r tha n
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`p ar al le l co nf igu rat ions , and asso ci at ed d e coding and
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`d e mo dul ati on .
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`Cases IPR2014-00921 and IPR2014-01149
`Patent 6,023,783
`
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`Th e '783 p at ent de sc ri bes tu rbo cod es as , I will
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`r e ad f ro m i t , it says : Bu ilt f ro m t he pa r all el con ca ten ati on o f
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`t wo r ec ur siv e s yst e ma t ic conv olut ion al cod es and usin g a
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`f e edb a ck d eco de r. No w, to a la yma n a ll o f th es e f an c y wo rds
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`ma y s e e m s o co mpl ic at ed t hat an y i mp l e me n ta tion loo ks lik e
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`a n inv en tion .
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`B ut fr o m t he prop er pe rsp e ctiv e , fr o m t h e
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`p er sp ect iv e - - vi ewi ng t h e '783 p ate nt cl ai ms a t iss ue f ro m t h e
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`vi e w o f on e o f o rdi na r y s kill in the a rt at t he t i me of th e f ilin g
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`o f th e p at ent appli c ation - - a nd we a r e t alk ing about M a y 1 5th
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`o f 199 6 , th at 's the pr ovis ion al filing dat e -- look ing f ro m t ha t
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`p rop e r pe rsp e ctive , t h e c la i ms r ec it e no thing mo r e th an
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`ob vious i mp le me nt at ions o f tu rb o c od es . Obv ious
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`i mp l e me n ta tions . Obv ious in vi e w o f th e p rio r ar t f ro m M a y
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`o f 199 6 .
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`S o l et 's t alk a l ittl e bi t ab out th e s ta t e of the a rt
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`a nd th e kn o wl edge of th e pe rso n o f o rdin a r y sk i ll i n th e ar t a t
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`th at ti me . S o we a r e t alk ing about M a y 1 5th o f 19 96. Th r ee
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`ye a r s pri or to th at tur bo c ode s we re int rod uc ed b y C l aud e
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`B e r rou , Ma y o f 199 3 , an d he p r es ent ed tur bo c ode s to th e
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`wo rld in a con f ere nc e i n Gen ev a , and the pap e r th at h e was
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`p re s e nting , the pub li cat ion was t itl ed " Ne a r Sh ann on Li mi t
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`Er r or Co r re cti ng C odin g an d De codi ng: Tu rbo Code s ."
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`No w, the ne a r Sha nnon li mi t re f ere nc e i n this
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`pu bli ca tion g oes a ll o f th e wa y b ac k to 1 948 , Cl aude S han non ,
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`Cases IPR2014-00921 and IPR2014-01149
`Patent 6,023,783
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`a nd Sh annon 's the or e m. An d Sh anno n' s th eo re m, t he S han non
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`l i mi t is t he the ore ti ca l ma xi mu m c h ann el co mmu n ica tio n r at e .
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`No w, Sh anno n' s th eo re m t o ld us t ha t er ro r c or r ec tion cod es
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`e xis ted tha t c ould g et us ne a r th e Sh annon ' s li mi t , but th e
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`S h annon 's the or em d idn ' t te ll us wh at t hes e cod es we r e .
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`I t to ok ov er 40 ye a rs , 4 0 ye a rs from 1 948 ,
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`S h annon , Cl aud e S h annon , u p to 199 3 , Cl aud e Be r rou , to
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`c o me up with t he c od e , co ding s ch eme t h a t got u s nea r the
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`S h annon l i mi t , tur bo cod es , a wond er fu l ad van c e in e r ro r
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`c or r ec tion cod ing.
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`And onc e so me o ne f igu red out t urbo cod es and
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`pu blish ed the m i n M a y o f 1 993 , at th at ti me t hen al l o f th e
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`to ta ls wer e in p lac e to p rovid e v a riou s i mp l e me nt ation s of th e
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`tu rbo cod es . And th at 's be ca us e in th e 40 ye a r s , in th at
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`in te rv enin g 40 ye a r s th er e wer e oth er adv an c es i n er r or
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`c or r ec tion cod ing, in cl uding mu l tile ve l mo dul atio n and
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`t r elli s - cod ed mo dul at ion th at p ut al l of the tool s in pl a ce , suc h
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`a s Ung e rbo eck , 197 0s . Th at 's t r ellis - cod ed mo dul atio n .
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`Ung e rbo ec k publ ish ed t hr e e pa pe rs a nd th e up dat e
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`in 1987 i s wh at we a r e r e fe r ring to a s th e Ung e rbo eck
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`r e f er en ce in th is c as e .
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`S o wh en we t alk a bout al l of th e too ls b eing in
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`pl a ce b y 1993 , so th at onc e tu rbo cod es we re int roduc ed th at
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`th e v a rious i mp leme n t a tions we re ob vious , tha t 's wh y we s e e a
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`r e lat iv el y t ight win do w f ro m 1 9 93 to '9 6 , f ro m ' 9 3 , wi th
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`Cases IPR2014-00921 and IPR2014-01149
`Patent 6,023,783
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`C l aud e B e rro u pre se ntin g tu rbo cod es , and th e 19 96 f ili ng
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`d at e o f th e ap pli ca tio n .
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`I n th at t ight windo w yo u s ee a flu rr y o f a ct ivit y
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`a nd th e nu mb e r of th e r e fe r en ces ci ted in th is c as e co me
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`wi thin t ha t tigh t wi ndo w. Fo r e x amp l e , P al ico t . P al ico t is a
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`10 2 r e fe re nc e in thi s c as e f or cl ai ms 2 3 an d 60 . Th at 's tur bo
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`c odin g plus mu l til ev el mo dul at ion .
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`Le Go ff , tha t shows tur bo c oding and tr ell is -co ded
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`mo d ul at ion , and th at 's t he r ef e ren ce th at d re w th e ame n d me n t
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`f o r th e di re ct coupl ing t hat ma y b e a c lai m c o ns tru ctio n issu e
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`in this c as e .
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`Ano the r ex a mp le is Rob e rtso n C MS , whi ch sh o ws
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`ho w to co mb in e R ob er tson and Ung er boe ck , B er rou a nd
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`Ung e rbo ec k , P alic ot and Ung e rbo ec k , th at co mb in atio n of
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`tu rbo cod ing and t r elli s - cod ed mo dul a t ion . It sho ws ho w one
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`o f o rdin a r y ski ll in t he a rt ma k es tho se co mb in ati ons .
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`S o it is th e p er spe c tiv e of th e pe rson of o rd ina r y
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`sk ill i n th e a rt in 19 96 , th e st at e o f th e ar t a t th at time , a n d
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`th e h isto r y, th e h ist or y f r o m t h e t wo Cl aud es , fro m C l aud e
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`S h annon i n 1948 to Cl aud e Be r rou in 1993 , and t hen th e flu r r y
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`o f a ct ivit y i n th at t ight windo w fr om ' 9 3 to '96 , whic h
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`c on fi r ms to us tha t b y t he ti me o f th e Ma y 1 5th , 1 996 fi ling
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`d at e o f th e ' 783 pa t ent appl ic atio n , a ll o f th e t ools we r e in
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`pl a ce fo r wh at was t hen obvio us i mpl e me n ta tion s of tu rbo
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`c od es .
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`Cases IPR2014-00921 and IPR2014-01149
`Patent 6,023,783
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`No w, the P at ent Own e r r esp onds to o ur s ho wing of
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`ob vious nes s in this c as e b y s a yin g th at we d idn 't sh ow t he
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`p ar ti cul ar mo d if ic a tions ne ce ss ar y f o r th e r e fe r enc es d o wn to
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`th e s ch e ma t ic ci rc uit lev el . Thes e mo di fi ca tion s to th e
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`r e f er en ce s woul d b e too co mp l ic at ed and t ha t one of o rdin a r y
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`sk ill i n th e a rt just didn 't kno w how t o do it or would do it in
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`so me o th e r wa y t h an we 've sho wn .
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`We l l , i n di re ct r ebu tt al to thos e c ha ll eng es we
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`p rovi de t wo th ings . We p rovid e d et ail s do wn to th e c i rcu it
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`l ev el fo r wha t th e p ar ti cul ar mo d if ic a tions a re , fo r thin gs su ch
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`a s th e d ec ode rs and ho w to g et a se co nd d at a lin e into th e
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`c onst itu ent cod e o f a tu rbo cod er , a nd we sho w ano th er
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`r e f er en ce , Rob e rtso n C MS .
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`Th at 's an addi tion al re f er en ce we b ring in reb utt al
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`in this c as e in th e p rop e r sc ope of re but tal to reb ut th e
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`c ha ll eng es th at on e o f o rdin ar y s kil l in th e ar t wouldn 't kno w
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`ho w to ma k e th ese co mb i na tions . And Rob e rtso n CM S s ho ws
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`th at one of o rd inar y s k ill i n th e a rt kn e w ho w to ma ke
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`c o mb in atio ns su ch as th e co mb in atio n of tu rbo coding and
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`t r elli s - cod ing mo du la tion and adding a s ec ond d at a l ine , tur bo
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`c odin g a s e cond da t a lin e .
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`S o l et 's t urn to the sp ec if ic i ssu es in t his ca se , and
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`we ' r e loo king at sl ide 2 . We ar e goi ng to b lo w th roug h th e
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`f i rst fe w slid es he r e in the int e res t o f ti me b e c aus e th e y a r e
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`Patent 6,023,783
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`r e all y f o r o rg ani za tio n to sh o w us th e p ar tic ul ar cl aims a n d
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`g roun ds in t his cas e .
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`Th e re a re fou r cla i ms a nd th re e g rou nds in the 921
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`c as e . In th e 11 49 c as e t he r e a r e mo re gr ounds and mo r e
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`c l ai ms , but o ne thi ng I will point ou t is t hat cl ai ms 55 to 59 ,
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`we ' ve fi led a mo tio n to wi thd ra w tho se cl ai ms f ro m th is
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`p ro ce edi ng .
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`Qu ick l y on a c la im c o nst ru ction issu e , we 'r e on
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`sl id e 5 , th e bot tom o f th e slid e , t he 1149 c ase , th e re a r e no
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`di sput ed cl ai m c ons tr uct ion i ssu es in this c as e . Ther e we re in
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`th e Inst itut ion Dec isi on so me i nit ial cons tr uc tions ma de .
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`Th e y a r e eith e r not dispu te d or r ela t e to no n -i nsti tut ed
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`g roun ds .
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`I n th e 921 c as e , th er e i s on e c lai m t e r m - - t wo
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`t e r ms a ss oc iat ed wi th e a ch oth e r , di r ec tl y c oup led a nd si gna l
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`di r ec tl y f r o m. Wh er e t he r e was an in iti al cons tru ct ion , we
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`wou ld ask th at the Bo a rd con fi r m in t he fin al wri tt en d e cisi on
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`th e i niti al cons tr uc tio n , in p ar ti cula r tha t di re ct l y cou ple d
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`do esn 't ex clu de int e rv ening con nec tio ns , lik e a s wi tc h , in
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`p ar ti cul ar a s wit ch s uch as a mu ltipl ex e r .
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`B ut we b eli ev e tha t eve n und er the P a ten t Own er 's
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`n ar ro wes t pr opose d c onst ru ctio n , th at t he re f er en c es sh o w
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`un pat en tab ilit y, a nd tha t 's b ec aus e th e Rob er tson ,
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`Ung e rbo ec k , P alic ot co mb in atio ns th at we sh o w h ave no
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`in te rv enin g st ru ctu re in th e re lev ant p la c es .
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`9
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`

`
`Cases IPR2014-00921 and IPR2014-01149
`Patent 6,023,783
`
`
`S o l et 's d ive rig ht in to th e fi rst ca se , th e 921 c ase .
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`We ' r e on s lid e 9 . Th at 's mo r e org ani z atio na l . It shows the
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`th r ee gro unds , 9 , 10 , and 11 . And g roun d 9 - - all o f th e
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`g roun ds c ove r 23 , 24 , 60 a nd 61 . 23 and 6 0 , th at 's a s ys t e m
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`c l ai m a nd its co rre spon ding me t hod cl ai m. Th a t 's th e
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`c o mb in atio n of tur bo codin g an d mul til ev el mo dul at ion .
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`And th en 24 and 61 , ano the r s ys t em c l ai m a n d i ts
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`c or r espo nding me th od c l a i m. Th at sp e ci fi es th at t he
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`mu l t ile ve l mo dula tio n f ro m t h e ind ep end ent cl ai m, no w in th e
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`d ep end ent cl ai m, is tr el lis -c ode d mod ula tion , the comb i n ati on
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`o f tu rbo cod ing wi th t re llis - cod ed mo d ul at ion kno wn as tu rb o
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`TC M . Grou nds 10 and 1 1 cov e r the se sa me c l ai ms a s well but
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`th e y a r e d if f er ent c o mb in atio ns th at we wi ll g et to .
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`S o mo ving on to th e n ext s lid e . S lid e 8 , th is is
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`g roun d 9 , c la i ms 23 , 24 , 16 , 61 . Gr ound 9 ha s an obvi ousn ess
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`c o mb in atio n of Rob e rtso n and Unge rb oe ck fo r both 23 and 60
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`a nd also the n 24 a nd 61 .
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`S o we' r e st a rting wi th 23 and 60 . Th is is slid e 8 ,
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`tu rbo cod ing wi th mu lt ile ve l mo dula tio n , an d th e comb i n ati on ,
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`th e sp e ci fi c co mb in at ion is th e Ro be r tson figu r e 1 tur bo cod er
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`wi th th e Ung e rboe ck fi gur e 3 mu l ti lev el mo du la tion.
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`And th e sp eci fi c wa y t h is c o mb inat ion is don e is
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`wi th th e ma t ch ed th r ee pa r all el ou tpu ts fro m t h e t urbo cod e r
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`a nd th e t hr ee pa ra ll el i nputs f ro m th e Un ge rbo ec k 8 - P S K
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`Cases IPR2014-00921 and IPR2014-01149
`Patent 6,023,783
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`ma p p e r . No w, this is a co nne ct ion wi th no i nte rv ening
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`st ru ctu r es .
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`Th e res pons e we s ee f ro m t h e P a t ent Owne r on this
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`is su e is th at , oh , no , one of o rd inar y s k ill i n th e a rt e ith e r
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`wou ldn 't kn o w how t o ma k e thi s comb i n ati on o r th e y wou ld do
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`i t in so me o th e r wa y.
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`I n p ar ti cul ar , P ate nt Own e r s a ys tha t th e y wo uldn 't
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`ma k e th is conn ect ion wit h no in te rv eni n g st ru ctu re s, th at the y
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`wou ld us e a mu ltipl ex e r in th e re to t ak e thi s th re e pa r all el
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`ou tput and ch ange th e f or ma t int o a se ri al fo r ma t whi ch ma k e s
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`i t not ma t ch up wi th th e mo dul ato r, so the n you n e ed a
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`d e mu lti ple xe r to b ring it b ac k , th e f o r ma t b a ck f rom s e ri al to
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`p ar al le l , an d th en f e ed i t int o th e mo d ul ato r .
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`Th at i s a n ove r co mp li c atio n th at on e o f o rdin a r y
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`sk ill i n th e a rt woul d not d o . Th e y wou ld ma k e th is
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`c o mb in atio n , st raig ht for wa rd co mb in at ion wi thout th e
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`c o mp li ca tion s of a mu l tip lex e r th at c ha ng e s th e f or ma t , and
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`th en a d e mu ltip lex er to g et i t ba ck in to th e p rop er for ma t .
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`M or e i mp o rt ant l y, we ' ve se en , we c an se e fro m t h e
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`a ddi tion al re butt al evi den c e f ro m i n p a rti cul a r Ro ber tso n C MS
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`th at sho ws t ha t this con ne cti on is ma d e wi thout inte rv en ing
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`st ru ctu r e .
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`J UDGE C AP P: M r . Rog e rs , ma y I a sk you , is th at
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`a posi tion yo u took in th e p etit ion?
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`Cases IPR2014-00921 and IPR2014-01149
`Patent 6,023,783
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`M R . R OGER S: Th e pos itio n we took in th e
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`p eti tion was t ha t th e re was a co mb in at ion o f tu rbo cod ing
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`f r o m R ob er tson and the Unge rb oe ck mu lt il eve l mo dul at or . It
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`wa s no t unti l we f a c ed th e c ha lle ng e th at s aid one of o rdin ar y
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`sk ill i n th e a rt woul d not ma k e the c o mb in atio n with a di re ct
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`c onn ec tion without an int erv en ing st ru ctu r e . Th er e wa s a
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`c l ai m i n th e res pon se t ha t th er e b e a mu l tip lex e r inse r ted in
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`th e re . So in di r ec t reb utt al to th at we sho wed t he pa r tic ul ar
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`wa y t h at the co mbi na tion i s ma d e wi thout a mu lt iple xe r .
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`S o th e n ext s lid e , sl id e 9 - -
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`J UDGE C OC KS: C ouns el , ma y I a sk , is th e re an y
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`c on ce rn t hat yo u 'v e c han ged the grou nd th at wasn 't th e b asis
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`o f th e p e ti tion , i s th e re an y c on c ern yo u h ad , an d tha t we
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`sh ould h av e , in vi e w o f th at g rou nd?
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`M R . R OGER S: No con c ern s . And t he r eas on wh y
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`is be c aus e th e g rou nds ar e th e s a me co mb i na tion . It is th e
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`tu rbo cod e r o f Rob er tson and the mul til ev el mo dul ato r o f
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`Ung e rbo ec k .
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`Th e sp e ci fic de tai ls o f ho w p a rti cul a rl y th at
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`c o mb in atio n is ma de is so me t hin g th at we p rov ide as p rop e r
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`r eb utt al , i s th e s ame g r ou nds , i t is a n obv iousn ess grou nd with
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`th e co mb in atio n o f Rob ert son and Ung e rbo ec k , an d we b eli ev e
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`th at we ma d e a p r op e r p ri ma f a ci e sh o wing o f ob vious nes s in
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`th e co mb in atio n and tha t it is p rop er p roc edu r e to s ho w the
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`p ar ti cul ar wa y t he co mb i na tion i s ma d e in r ebut ta l , in di re ct
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`Patent 6,023,783
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`r eb utt al , i n r espons e to an a rgu me nt f ro m t h e P at ent Owne r
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`th at we d idn 't anti cip at e -- and I don 't thin k we s houl d ha ve
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`h ad to an tic ipa te - - this a rgu me n t th at t he re would be an
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`in te rv enin g mu ltipl ex e r .
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`Th e n ext s lid e , we ' r e mo ving on to g roun d 9 , it 's
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`st ill o bviou sne ss , R ob er tson and Ung e rbo eck , but t he se a re
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`th e d ep end ent cl ai ms t hat add - - tha t sp e ci f y th at t he
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`mu l t ile ve l mo dula tio n is t r elli s - cod ed mo dul at ion , tu rbo TC M .
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`And we fa c e a simi l a r situ at ion h er e whe r e we in
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`th e p eti tion p ro vid ed ou r p ri ma f a ci e sho wing o f obvi ousn ess
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`in th e co mb i nat ion , mo ti va tion , and t ha t it wou ld b e ob viou s
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`to one of o rd ina ry s k ill in th e art to ma k e this co mb in at ion .
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`Wh e n fa c ed wit h th e ch all eng e in th e r es pons e th at
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`on e o f o rdin a r y ski ll in th e a rt eithe r wouldn 't ma k e th e
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`c o mb in atio n withou t an int er ven ing s tr uct ur e o r just wouldn 't
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`h av e th e kno wledg e a nd ski ll to ma ke th e co mb i nat ion , just
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`wou ldn 't kn o w how t o do it , tha t 's th e a rgu me n t , we sh o w
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`th rou gh ou r p rope r r ebut tal ev ide nc e , in p art ic ula r th e
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`mo d i fi ca tion s th at a re ma d e , and wh en yo u a re tr el lis codi ng
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`mo d ul at ion -- whe n you a re tr ell is c odin g , whe n you a r e do ing
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`tu rbo TC M wit h th e tu rbo cod e r , on e o f o rdin ar y s kil l in th e
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`a r t kn e w, ba ck in M a y o f 1 996 , kne w to add a s eco nd d at a li ne
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`so tha t on ce , ag ain , yo u g et , f or e ac h c onst itu ent cod e o f th e
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`tu rbo cod e r , you g et t he t wo inpu ts and t he thr e e p ar a lle l
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`ma t c h ed ou tput s , a nd th at 's witho ut do ing th e pu nct ur ing h e re .
`
`
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`
`Cases IPR2014-00921 and IPR2014-01149
`Patent 6,023,783
`
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`S o you a re sen ding o ut bot h of th e e nc ode d da ta
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`l ine s f ro m t h e t wo cons titu ent tu rbo cod er s . Th en you get ,
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`l ike we t alk ed abou t be fo r e , thi s th re e p a ra lle l out put f ro m t h e
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`tu rbo cod e rs , ea ch cons titu ent code r tha t go es in to th e th r ee
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`p ar al le l inpu t of th e ma pp e r .
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`S o in this c ase sin ce yo u ar e us ing a s econ d da ta
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`l ine , yo u ar e g etting thr e e - - t wo s ets of the th re e outpu ts , you
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`us e t wo Ung erb oec k 8 -P S K ma p pe rs i n thi s pa rt icu lar
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`c on figu r ation , and t his i s th e pa rt ic ul ar con fi gur at ion tha t
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`R ob er tson CM S sho ws .
`
`And wha t it t el ls us is th at n ot only d i d R obe rt son
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`o f th e Rob er tson tu rbo cod e r r e fe re nc e kn o w ho w to ma k e this
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`c o mb in atio n to achi ev e tu rbo TC M , h e pub lish ed Rob er tson
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`C M S and sho wed th ose of ord ina r y sk ill h o w to ma k e th e
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`c o mb in atio n .
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`S o you kno w th at R ob er tson CM S c on fi r ms fo r us
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`th at the co mb in atio ns o f R obe rt son a nd Ung e rbo ec k a ch ie ve
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`tu rbo TC M a nd thos e o f o rdin a r y ski ll in th e a rt at th e ti me ,
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`M a y 1 5th o f 19 96, h ad th e sk ill , the kno wledg e , t he a bil it y,
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`kn e w ho w to ma ke thi s co mb i na tion .
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`And so we will mov e on to th e n ext g rou nd ,
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`g roun d 10 . Thi s is P ali cot . This is an anti cip at ion r e f er en ce .
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`And wha t P ali co t sh o ws us , o n th e l e ft -ha nd sid e i s a quot e
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`f r o m P a li cot h ighl ight ed and su mm a r iz ed do wn he r e: P a li cot
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`Cases IPR2014-00921 and IPR2014-01149
`Patent 6,023,783
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`r e f er s to tu rbo cod es as th e b est cha nn el coding sc heme f o r
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`QP S K mo d ul ation. Th at i s mu lti lev el mo dul at ion .
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`Th e Q s tand s f or qu ad ra tu re , tha t' s f ou r , a nd it is
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`di stin ct f ro m b ina r y mo d ul ation , wh ich would b e two . So
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`a n yth ing l a rge r th an t wo is mu lt ile ve l . I t dis tingu ish es b in ar y
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`f r o m mu lt il eve l mo d ul at ion . So QP S K is fou r . Th e 8 -P S K
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`we ' ve se en b e for e is mu l til ev el , 16 , 32 , 64 a nd so son .
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`S o Pal ic ot t ell s us n ot onl y t h at tur bo cod es and
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`mu l t ile ve l mo du la tio n c an go tog eth e r , thi s is i n tha t ti ght
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`wi ndo w b et wee n '93 and '9 6 , an d it sh o ws us as s oon a s
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`C l aud e B e rro u brou ght to the wor ld t urb o co ding folk s su ch as
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`P a li cot kn e w, no t ju st th at tur bo c odi ng went wi th mul til ev el
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`mo d ul at ion , bu t at tha t ti me t u rbo c od es wer e th e b est cod ing
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`s ch e me f or QP S K a nd mu lt ile ve l mod ula tion .
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`And we s e e in t abl e 1 o f Pa lic ot , we se e i n
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`e xa mp l e 2 , we s ee th e QPS K mo dul ati on . You ca n loo k to th e
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`l e ft -ha nd sid e o f t abl e 1 and yo u se e mo du la tion . You go
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`a c ros s to QP S K -- an d ke ep in mi nd t his i s ex a mp l e 2 , S ys te m
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`B , we will s ho w fig ur e 4 t hat this is r ef e rr ing to - - th en yo u
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`s ee th e bit r at e goi ng in to th e c hann el cod ing . Reme mb e r
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`th at , tha t 's 9 . Tha t 's th e d at a r at e .
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`Th en yo u se e t he c ha nne l c oding as sp e ci fi ed a s
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`tu rbo cod ing . So t abl e 2 , t his i s r ea ll y a l l you n ee d to se e , is
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`th at tab le 1 sho ws i n ex a mp l e 2 the co mb i na tion o f tu rbo
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`c odin g with mu l til ev el mo dul at ion .
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`Cases IPR2014-00921 and IPR2014-01149
`Patent 6,023,783
`
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`No w, the issu e in th is cas e -- we 'l l mo v e to th e
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`n ext s lid e -- t his is fi gur e 4 , this is t he ex a mp l e th at s a ys :
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`C on cep tu al blo ck di ag r a m o f app roa ch B . So th at 's S ys t e m B .
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`Th e cha ll eng e th at we g et fr o m t he P a ten t Own er
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`in this c as e ta kes a dv ant ag e of a mi st ak e in the pe tition , and a
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`mi s t ak e th at P etitio ne r ma d e , th ei r e xp er t , an d al so th e Pat en t
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`Own e r an d th ei r exp e rt , I me a n Dr . C i mi ni , in th ei r re spon se ,
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`ma d e th e mi s tak e o f not just point ing co r re ctl y t o t abl e 1
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`wh e re t ur bo co ding and mu l til ev el mo dul at ion ar e sho wn , th e
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`mi s t ak e is tha t this tu rbo cod er 2 is r ef e rr ed to as the ch ann el
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`c od er , the t u rbo cod e r , an d th at 's a mi s t ak e .
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`And wha t it d id wa s th e Pa ten t Own e r took
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`a dv ant ag e of tha t a nd yo u se e a MUX i n be t we en cod er 2 an d
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`th e mo dul at or . And so th e y s a y, oh , n ot di r ect l y c oup led
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`b ec aus e t he r e is an i nt erv eni ng c onn ec tion , tha t th e y s a y a
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`M UX me a n s i t is no t di re ct l y c ouple d .
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`We l l , I b eli ev e bot h sid es ag re e no w, esp e cia ll y
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`a f te r th e cro ss -exa mi n a tion o f Dr . C i mi ni , h e ag re ed th at
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`c od er 2 is a sou r ce co de r . It 's no t a ch ann el cod e r . Th is is a
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`mi s t ak e . And s o th is is not -- this is not t he t urb o cod e r .
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`Th e re is no M UX in be t we en th e tu rbo cod e r and the
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`mu l t ile ve l mo dula to r sho wn .
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`Th e tu rbo cod e r , th e ch ann el c ode r, a nd th e
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`mu l t ile ve l mo dula to r , QPS K, a re ins ide this mo d ulato r bo x ,
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`a nd we kno w tha t b ec aus e we c an se e the 9 da ta r ate go i ng
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`in to th e mo dul ator box .
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`And if we go ba ck t o t abl e 1 , you s ee th e bit r at e
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`b ef or e cha nne l c odi ng , 9 . And so th er e i s no in te rv eni ng
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`M UX sho wn . This i s tu rbo codi ng wi th mu lti lev el
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`mo d ul at ion . And wh at we wou ld ask the Bo a rd to do i s look
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`a t ou r -- we b eli ev e th e re i s su ff ic ie nt g roun ds wh en we
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`c or r ec tl y p oint t o th e co mb in atio n in this tab le 1 , and
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`di sr eg ar d wh at e ve r yb od y, b oth si de s a gr e e no w i s a mi s t ak e .
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`And yo u can fl ip to it . Th e n ext s lid e , s lid e 11 ,
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`th e mi st ak en re f er en c e to t his cod er 2 as b eing t he ch ann el
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`c od er . It is not . I t is a so ur c e co de .
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`J UDGE C OC KS: S o you a re ask ing u s to s et
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`a sid e , it sound s lik e you a re d ist anc ing yo ur se lf f rom t h e id ea
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`th at cod e r 2 th rough the mu l tipl ex er is a di r ect con ne c tion t o
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`th e mo dul at or . You a re sa yi ng we sh ould s et tha t a sid e i n
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`ma k i ng ou r fin al wr it ten de cis ion a nd consi de r wh eth e r c ode r
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`1 i s - -
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`M R . R OGER S: No t co de r 1 . Th is i s c ode r 1 o ve r
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`h er e , cod er 2 . We a r e t alkin g ab out th e co de r , tu rbo cod er
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`in sid e th e mo dul ato r bo x . Ye s , we a sk th at yo u s et i t a sid e .
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`I f yo u di d ta ke cod er 2 a s a t urb o cod e r , we would
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`a sk th at yo u no t us e th e M UX to be an int er ven ing st ru ctu r e
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`th at tak es o ut di re c tl y c oupl ed b e ca us e o f th e wa y we ' ve ask ed
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`f o r cl ai m c o nst ruc tio n . Bu t ov er all , ye s , we ask you t o se t
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