throbber
Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` Patent No. 6,476,351
` Inter Partes Review
` No. IPR2015-00024
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
`TIFFANY AND COMPANY,
` Petitioner,
`v.
`LAZARE KAPLAN INTERNATIONAL, INC.,
` Patent Owner.
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF DAVID TRUMPER, Ph.D.
` Tuesday, June 30, 2015 9:34 a.m.
` Fish & Richardson LLP
` One Marina Park Drive, Boston, MA 02210
`
`Reporter: Janet M. Sambataro, RMR, CRR, CLR
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 1
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`2
`
`APPEARANCES:
`
`FISH & RICHARDSON P.C.
`(By P. Weston Musselman, Jr., Esquire
`and Adam R. Shartzer, Esquire)
`3200 RBC Plaza
`60 South Sixth Street
`Minneapolis, MN 55402
`musselman@fr.com
`shartzer@fr.com
`Counsel for the Petitioner
`
`MORRISON & FOERSTER LLP
`(By Fahd Patel, Esquire)
`2000 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
`Suite 6000
`Washington, D.C. 20006-1888
`202.887.1500
`fpatel@mofo.com
`Counsel for the Patent Owner
`
`- Continued -
`
`1
`
`2 3 4
`
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 2
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`3
`
`APPEARANCES: (Continued)
`
`MORRISON & FOERSTER LLP
`(By Mehran Arjomand, Esquire)
`707 Wilshire Boulevard
`Los Angeles, CA 90017-3543
`213.892.5200
`marjomand@mofo.com
`Counsel for the Patent Owner
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
`Ewa Abrams, In-house Counsel, Tiffany & Company
`Gayle Ashton, Videographer
`
`1
`
`2 3
`
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 3
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`4
`
` I N D E X
`WITNESS DIRECT CROSS
`DAVID TRUMPER, Ph.D.
`By Mr. Patel 6
` E X H I B I T S
`Number Description Page
`Exhibit 2004 Expert Report of Dr. David
` Trumper Regarding Invalidity
` of Claims 1 and 7 of U.S. Patent
` No. 6,476,351 157
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 4
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`5
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` P R O C E E D I N G S
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the video
`operator speaking, Gayle Ashton, with Henderson
`Legal Services. Today's date is June 30th, 2015,
`and the time is 9:34 a.m.
` We are here at the offices of
`Fish & Richardson, located at One Marina Park
`Drive, Boston, Massachusetts, to take the
`videotaped deposition of Dr. David Trumper in the
`matter of Tiffany & Company versus Lazare Kaplan
`International, Inc., in the U.S. Patent and
`Trademark Office before the Patent Trial and
`Appeal Board, Inter Partes Review Number
`IPR2015-00024.
` Will counsel please state their
`appearances.
` MR. PATEL: This is Fahd Patel with
`Morrison and Foerster on behalf of patent owner,
`Lazare Kaplan International. And with me is
`Mehran Arjomand.
` MR. MUSSELMAN: This is Wes Musselman
`with Fish & Richardson on behalf of the
`petitioner, Tiffany & Company, and with me is
`Adam Shartzer of Fish & Richardson and Ewa Abrams
`of Tiffany & Company.
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 5
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`6
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the court
`reporter please swear in the witness.
` DAVID TRUMPER, Ph.D.
`having been duly sworn, after presenting
`identification in the form of a driver's license,
`deposes and says as follows:
` DIRECT EXAMINATION
` THE WITNESS: I do affirm that.
`BY MR. PATEL:
` Q. Okay. Good morning, Dr. Trumper.
` A. Good morning.
` Q. Could you please spell your name for
`the record.
` A. David, D-A-V-I-D, Lippincott,
`L-I-P-P-I-N-C-O-T-T, Trumper, T-R-U-M-P-E-R.
` Q. And, Dr. Trumper, before today, how
`many prior depositions have you had?
` A. Probably about ten, something like
`that.
` Q. Okay. So you understand that you are
`under oath today?
` A. Yes, I understand that.
` Q. And to please give audible answers and
`not gestures and motions?
` A. Yes. I understand that.
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 6
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`7
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q. From time to time, Tiffany's counsel
`may make objections, but that these objections
`are evidentiary only in nature?
` A. If you tell me that's true, yes.
` Q. And that if you understand a question,
`you must answer it unless Tiffany's counsel
`instructs you not to answer?
` A. I understand I should answer the
`questions you're asking unless instructed not to
`answer by Tiffany's counsel.
` Q. And do you understand that you may not
`discuss the testimony -- the substance of your
`testimony with Tiffany's counsel during the
`breaks?
` A. Yes. I understand that.
` Q. Is there any reason why you cannot
`provide complete testimony today?
` A. There's no reason.
` Q. Okay. Dr. Trumper, how many days did
`you spend preparing for today's deposition?
` A. If you count -- I would count that to
`be the total of preparing the declaration that I
`wrote, or do you mean just after that, preparing
`for the deposition, in particular?
` Q. The deposition, in particular.
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 7
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`8
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. I spent a couple of days, two to three
`days, preparing.
` Q. Okay. And did you meet with anybody
`when preparing for the deposition?
` A. Yes. I met with attorneys from
`Fish & Richardson yesterday.
` Q. Okay. While preparing for today's
`deposition, what documents did you consider?
` A. It would be all the ones cited in my
`declaration.
` Q. Okay. And other than the documents
`cited in your declaration, did you review any
`additional documents?
` A. I believe I looked through the -- I
`believe it's called the board decision on the --
`on this IPR.
` Q. Okay. Anything else?
` A. I don't recall any other documents that
`I reviewed.
` Q. Do you wish to make any corrections to
`your declaration?
` A. I have no corrections at this time.
` Q. Did you bring anything with you to help
`you testify today?
` A. I have two documents with me. One is
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 8
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`9
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`the copy of the '351 patent and the other
`document is a copy of my declaration from
`October 2nd of 2014.
` Q. Okay. Let's look at your declaration.
`This is Tiffany Exhibit 1003.
` MR. PATEL: Counsel, do you need a
`courtesy copy? I have one, if you like.
` MR. MUSSELMAN: If you've got one,
`certainly.
` MR. PATEL: Sure.
` MR. SHARTZER: Thank you.
` Q. Just looking at the first page, Page 1,
`Paragraph 3 says, "I have reviewed and am
`familiar with," and then lists a series of
`documents.
` What is the significance of this listing of
`documents that you listed here?
` A. In the declaration, I believe many of
`these documents, if not all of them, are
`discussed. So I think that's the significance of
`this listing.
` Q. Is this the complete listing of
`documents upon which your opinions are based?
` A. I would say I was informed by reading
`all of these documents. I'm not sure if it's a
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 9
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`10
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`complete list. I'm trying to think if there's
`anything else I read. I think for the opinion
`expressed here, these are the documents I read,
`and I cite them in support of that opinion --
`opinions expressed in my declaration.
` Q. And for the opinions cited in this IPR,
`are there any other documents that you
`considered?
` A. I don't recall any other documents that
`I considered for writing this declaration at this
`time.
` Q. So in this listing, you didn't -- did
`not include the file history of the '351 patent.
`Right?
` A. I believe I mention the file history
`later in my declaration, when discussing -- let
`me see. Yes, Paragraph 17. It says, "Based on
`my review of the '351 patent and its file
`history." So I had looked at that. Yes.
` Q. So in Paragraph 17, this is under the
`Level of Ordinary Skill in the Art section,
`right?
` A. Yes. But I believe I've taken account
`of the file history in the opinions of the entire
`declaration.
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 10
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`11
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q. Okay. You also don't have listed here
`the federal circuit opinion on claim
`construction. Did you consider the federal
`circuit opinion on claim construction in your
`opinion?
` A. So let me be sure. I think that what
`you're asking about -- let's see. If you look at
`Paragraphs 25 and 26 of my declaration, when you
`asked about the federal circuit opinion, that's
`the same document I'm discussing here.
` Q. All right.
` A. So, yes, I've taken account of that.
`And I did read through that document.
` Q. Okay. If you could turn to Page 4 of
`your declaration, the top of the page,
`Paragraph 5.
` (Witness complies.)
` Q. You say that, "I previously testified
`in a deposition as a technical expert in a patent
`infringement action involving the '351 patent."
`Do you see that sentence?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What case was that?
` A. That was -- I forget the exact name,
`but GIA and PhotoScribe were the parties I
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 11
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`12
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`believe I was working with.
` Q. And who hired you in the prior case?
` A. I assume I was hired by GIA and
`PhotoScribe, or GIA maybe. I don't know exactly
`who. And I think the law firm I worked with was
`DLA Piper.
` Q. And what was your role in the prior
`case?
` A. I served as a technical expert.
` Q. What documents did you submit in the
`prior case?
` MR. MUSSELMAN: Objection. Form.
` A. It's four years ago. I don't remember.
` Q. Did you submit an expert declaration in
`the prior case?
` A. I'm sure there were some reports. I
`don't remember if they were called declarations.
` Q. Did you review your prior declaration
`or report for preparing for this IPR?
` A. No. I haven't looked at any of that
`material since back in -- I think it was 2011,
`when this deposition happened.
` Q. Did you review your prior deposition
`testimony in preparation for today's deposition?
` A. No. I didn't look at that.
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 12
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`13
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q. Did you review any other testimony in
`preparation for today's deposition?
` A. No, I didn't.
` Q. So Tiffany has hired you in this case.
`Correct?
` A. That's my understanding, yes.
` Q. And how much are you being compensated
`in this case?
` A. At $600 an hour.
` Q. And is Tiffany paying your bills in
`this case?
` A. I don't know. When I submitted an
`invoice last fall, it got paid. But I assume
`Tiffany is. I don't know. I don't know who is
`paying, but a check showed up. I submitted it
`through the law firm here.
` Q. Where did you receive the prior art
`references from that you apply in this case?
` MR. MUSSELMAN: Objection. Form.
` A. When you say where did I receive, could
`you be a little more clear, please.
` Q. So let's look back on Pages 1 and 2,
`the documents you considered.
` A. Okay.
` (Witness complies.)
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 13
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`14
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q. You list some prior art references that
`you're applying in your opinion. Right?
` A. Are you talking about the list at
`Paragraph 3 of my report?
` Q. Yes.
` A. Yes. There are prior art references in
`that paragraph.
` Q. And you applied those in this opinion.
`Right?
` A. Yes. These -- those references were
`ones that I -- that I cite to and describe and
`develop opinions around in this case.
` Q. So for the purposes of this IPR, where
`did you receive the Fine Diamonds reference from?
` MR. MUSSELMAN: Objection. Form.
` A. I believe I got that from attorneys at
`Fish & Richardson.
` Q. And how about the ILR article?
` A. I believe I received the ILR article
`from attorneys at Fish & Richardson.
` Q. And moving on to Page 2, how about the
`Gresser patent?
` A. I believe the copy I got came from the
`attorneys at Fish & Richardson.
` Q. And the declaration of Dr. Klopp?
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 14
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`15
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. Yes. I believe that came from
`attorneys at Fish & Richardson.
` Q. Have you had any communications with
`counsel for PhotoScribe in preparation for this
`deposition?
` A. No. I've had no such communications.
` Q. Dr. Trumper, I'm handing you Exhibit
`Tiffany 1004, premarked. Dr. Trumper, what is
`this document?
` A. This appears to be my CV from the June
`2011 time frame.
` Q. I want to talk a little bit about your
`background.
` A. Mm-hmm.
` Q. You graduated with a BS in electrical
`engineering and computer science from MIT.
`Correct?
` A. Yes. In June 1980, I received that
`degree.
` Q. And you graduated with a master's
`degree in electrical engineering and computer
`science in June 1984. Correct?
` A. Yes. That's correct.
` Q. And then your Ph.D. in the same major,
`September of 1990. Correct?
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 15
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`16
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. Yes. That's correct.
` Q. And then after receiving your Ph.D.,
`you went to the University of North Carolina,
`Charlotte. Correct?
` A. Yes. In the electrical engineering
`department. I took a position there in 1990.
` Q. And then you moved back to MIT in 1993.
`Correct?
` A. Yes. I took a position in the
`mechanical engineering department, starting in
`1993.
` Q. Why did you make the change from
`electrical engineering to mechanical engineering?
` A. It's interesting. I have always been
`interested in mechanical things. You know, I
`built houses in high school with a contractor.
` And electrical engineering, I, as an
`undergrad, developed a strong background in
`circuit design, both analog and digital. When I
`took my first job at Hewlett-Packard in 1980, I
`was applying those circuits to gas and liquid
`chromatographs, and those had mechanisms, pumps,
`valves, detectors, chemistry going on, biology.
` So I had naturally gravitated to
`multi-disciplinary problems even before I went to
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 16
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`17
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`MIT. And that refined my interest, because a lot
`of the problems in those machines and devices
`were in something in a mechanism, a spring or a
`valve, and no amount of software or change in
`analog circuits would fix that spring.
` So I actually grew an HP problem of a very
`precise pressure regulator into my master's
`thesis, and HP gave me a fellowship. I went back
`to do a master's at MIT and studied that pressure
`regulator. So there the mixture of mechanical
`and electrical engineering is intimate, and you
`have to understand both sides of the solution
`space.
` So I really -- and then my Ph.D. was in the
`topic of magnetic bearings, and there the
`mechanical structural details make as much
`difference as, say, the magnetic fields.
` So I had already been working in a
`multi-disciplinary way. I was in the electrical
`engineering department, but I was doing research
`in what you could call mechatronics, which is
`mechanical and electrical engineering combined.
`So that electrical or mechanical engineering
`departments are equally appropriate as an
`appointment for me.
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 17
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`18
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q. So if I say the word "precision
`machines," is that a term of art that you're
`familiar with?
` A. I have been president of the American
`Society for Precision Engineering.
` Q. Okay.
` A. And people spend some time talking
`about what is precision. And one way to note
`precision would be if you need to measure things
`to a large accuracy or make motions to a large
`accuracy range, you know.
` So if I'm moving down this table, if I want
`to move to an inch or so, you know, carpenters --
`when I built -- when I built frame houses, we'd
`measure stuff to about an eighth of an inch, and
`that's good enough for framing, but if you're
`doing cabinetry, you better be -- well, better --
`like a 32nd or 64th.
` If you're doing precision engineering,
`something like -- if you need four or five
`decimal places of accuracy, then you start to
`think about calling that precision engineering or
`precision machine.
` But it is context dependent, you know, for
`machine shop. If they work at, you know, a tenth
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 18
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`19
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`of an inch, that's very coarse, but if you're
`building a large building like this, a tenth of
`an inch is precision. So there's not a hard
`definition --
` Q. Okay.
` A. -- but that's -- that's roughly the
`context.
` Q. Okay. So it sounds like the term
`"precision machine" has sort of a general
`understanding in the art for what it means?
` A. You would need to know the context for,
`you know, what would be a precision machine would
`be context dependent. But the idea of precision
`implies some kind of higher resolution than in
`some standard. Like you might say, I've worked
`with diamond turning machines, which are
`precision lathe. The lathe that is in a normal
`machine shop, you might make parts to a
`thousandth of an inch; whereas, a diamond turning
`machine, you might make parts to a millionth of
`an inch kind of tolerances, and that would surely
`be a precision machine compared to the standard
`machine shop tools.
` Q. When did you first get involved with
`precision machines?
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 19
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`20
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. I would say -- I don't know. Like I
`mentioned the carpentry application, I was well
`aware of the finished carpenters were in another
`world than us framers, and they didn't let -- the
`guys doing finished cabinetry didn't let us
`anywhere near their tools, chisels and the like.
` So precision is something -- is something
`I've always been interested in. I would say the
`first -- within more my area of engineering
`application, I would say it's that pressure
`regulator that I worked on for -- well, before
`that, high-resolution A to D convertors when I
`was doing analog circuits. You know, if you're
`trying make something that measures microvolts
`instead of millivolts, that's another example of
`a precision device, because the resolution that
`you require, the things you have to take account
`of, like thermocouple voltages on wires, if all
`you care about is millivolts, forget them. If
`you care about microvolts, then you have to take
`account.
` So I would say, even undergrad, I had an
`interest in precision. But I'd say precision
`machines, the pressure regulator I worked on for
`Hewlett-Packard would try to control pressure to
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 20
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`21
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`a few psi out of thousands of psi, and typical
`pressure regulators are nowhere near that
`accurate.
` Q. So how about "precision motion
`machines," is that a more precise term?
` A. Well, that -- for instance, within that
`pressure regulator, I designed and built a
`flexure mechanism with strain gauges to measure
`motion of the plunger of the pressure regulator
`to probably micrometer level resolution so --
`because the -- the -- for these high-pressure
`regulators, you're working with very tiny
`clearances in the valve, and you have to control
`that position very precisely to regulate the
`pressure well. So I'd say precision motion, I
`was doing back in '83, '84, when I worked on my
`master's thesis --
` Q. Okay.
` A. -- and -- and after that.
` Q. And between that first system -- let me
`start again.
` Between 1983 and 1996, how many precision
`motion machines did you work on?
` A. Many. I worked on -- in my Ph.D.
`thesis, we focused on a magnetically levitated
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 21
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`22
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`stage for nanometer-level motion control. So
`that was an extremely precise system. I worked
`on that from '87 -- 1987 to 1990. And this was
`levitated in 5 degrees of freedom with the -- the
`motion stabilized on the order of a handful of
`nanometers. You know, a number of atoms in
`displacement equals a few nanometers.
` Then when I worked at -- I joined -- one of
`the main reasons I went to UNC Charlotte was to
`work with the precision engineering group under
`Professor Robert Hawkin, and he was a very
`well-known guy who was starting a program there
`in precision engineering. And we had a new
`building with new facilities, and I went there
`specifically to join his program, and designed a
`succession of other precision magnetically
`levitated or precision motion systems. This was
`in 1990.
` We built an atomic resolution maglev system
`between '90 and '92, '93. And that had
`subnanometer resolution of motion control with --
`magnetically levitated in 6 degrees of freedom,
`and we put a scanning tunneling microscope on the
`top of it. So you could -- while it was
`levitated, you could see atoms with the scanning
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 22
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`23
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`tunneling microscope.
` I also worked on a long travel linear motor
`at the same time, which was made for precision
`positioning for photolithography applications
`where, you know, you're exposing integrated
`circuit chips with nanometer resolution. And it
`was a new type of permanent magnet linear motor,
`and the associated controls for that in a
`levitated system. By levitated, I mean floating
`freely. And the magnetic forces are crossing an
`air gap, but there's no mechanical contact. So
`we designed and built a system that used that
`novel linear motor. That would be between about
`'92 to '93.
` And I also worked on measuring the forces of
`magnetic bearing actuators that were part of
`these precision machines by adjusting their air
`gaps to micrometer or submicrometer positions and
`measuring their forces to order of fractions of a
`newton or even millinewtons. So those were all
`things between '90 and '93.
` And then I moved to MIT in '93 and continued
`and broadened that work. I picked up -- there
`were a lot of projects I worked on at MIT. You
`asked until '96?
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 23
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`24
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q. Sorry. I don't mean to interrupt you,
`but I just want to sort of focus it a little
`more. Before we get into each individual project
`and sort of the details about them, could you
`give me a rough number between, let's say --
`we've talked about up to '93. So from '93 to
`'96, when you were at MIT, can you give me a
`ballpark number?
` MR. MUSSELMAN: Objection. Form.
` A. I was trying -- one of the ways to
`remember how many different systems worked on is
`to tell you about them. But between '93 and '96,
`I was also doing consulting for industry in the
`areas of lithography and other precision
`machines. So probably about, I don't know, ten
`or a dozen other systems.
` Q. And were any of those systems -- did
`any of those systems involve photolithography?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Roughly about how many?
` A. Probably about half of them.
` Q. Of the photolithography applications,
`did any involve viewing a semiconductor with a
`microscope?
` A. Well, for example, some of the older
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 24
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`litho tools, like when I was working on my Ph.D.
`thesis in the late '80s and then in the early
`'90s, I interacted with GCA, which was one of the
`vendors -- all capitals, GCA -- one of the
`vendors of photolithography equipment, and some
`of those machines would have a microscope built
`into them. Early machines. And so when you say
`"involved," tell me what you mean by that.
` Q. By "involved," using a microscope to
`view the semiconductor substrate during the
`photolithography process.
` A. And what do you mean by "involved"?
`Because, you know, a photolithography machine has
`a lot of different actuators, sensors, optics,
`imaging. So tell me a little more precisely,
`what do you mean?
` Q. Well, I don't think I used "involved"
`in the last question. Viewing a semiconductor
`substrate during the photolithography process.
` MR. MUSSELMAN: Objection. Form.
` A. There are many ways to view it. As I
`mentioned, I think those machines did. I know we
`had a microscope in our lab, and we'd look at
`things in the microscope. It's just the normal
`course of business.
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 25
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`26
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Also, we -- I mentioned we had built a
`scanning tunneling microscope, and one of the
`applications of that was to look at atoms on
`silicon. And when I was at UNC Charlotte, we had
`a vacuum scanning tunneling microscope system
`where you could remove the oxide layer from
`silicon and see the native silicon crystal with a
`scanning tunneling microscope. So that's, in
`some way, a viewing of a semiconductor.
` So there are a lot of ways -- very broadly,
`that's a standard thing that people are doing all
`the time. And I'm sure we were doing all the
`time too.
` Q. So the vacuum tunneling microscope that
`you mentioned --
` A. Mm-hmm.
` Q. -- that's used after the oxide layer is
`removed from the silicon crystal. Correct?
` A. When you take silicon into air, it
`grows an oxide layer. So if you hold a piece of
`silicon, you're actually looking at an oxide
`layer. When you, if you want to look at the
`crystal without anything on top of it, you need
`to put it in vacuum away from any oxygen and then
`do some kind of thermal process to take off the
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 26
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`27
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`oxide and then you can look at raw silicon.
` Q. The microscope in that application is
`not used during the removal of the oxide, though.
`Correct?
` A. Oh, I'm not sure that's true. You
`could, you could image the oxide layer or you
`could image the -- I believe the removal was a
`thermal step, and I don't recall whether you
`could use the microscope during that step.
` Q. Do you personally recall having any
`experience viewing a substrate during the
`photolithography process?
` A. I've -- I've been in, for instance,
`GCA's clean room or their follow-on company was
`called Integrated Solutions, and watched the
`machine in operation. And you're watching the
`wafer moving, da, da, da, it's making a scanning
`motion. So I've watched a wafer during the
`photolithography process.
` Q. Through a microscope?
` A. There would also be -- I'm trying to
`remember whether there was any live viewing.
`There may or may not have been. I don't recall.
` Q. So sitting here today, you can't recall
`any instances of viewing a semiconductor through
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`Lazare Kaplan International, Inc. Exhibit 2010 Page 27
`
`

`
`Trumper, Ph.D., David
`
`IPR2015-00024
`
`June 30, 2015
`
`28
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`a microscope during the photolithography process.
`Correct?
` MR. MUSSELMAN: Objection. Form.
` A. When you say "the pho

This document is available on Docket Alarm but you must sign up to view it.


Or .

Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.

After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.

Accept $ Charge
throbber

Still Working On It

This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.

Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.

throbber

A few More Minutes ... Still Working

It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.

Thank you for your continued patience.

This document could not be displayed.

We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.

Your account does not support viewing this document.

You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.

Your account does not support viewing this document.

Set your membership status to view this document.

With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll get a whole lot more, including:

  • Up-to-date information for this case.
  • Email alerts whenever there is an update.
  • Full text search for other cases.
  • Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.

Become a Member

One Moment Please

The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.

Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.

Your document is on its way!

If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.

Sealed Document

We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.

If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.


Access Government Site

We are redirecting you
to a mobile optimized page.





Document Unreadable or Corrupt

Refresh this Document
Go to the Docket

We are unable to display this document.

Refresh this Document
Go to the Docket