Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`1
`
` IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` ______________________________
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` ______________________________
` GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPANY,
` Petitioner,
` v.
` UNITED TECHNOLOGIES CORPORATION,
` Patent Owner
` ______________________________
` Case No. IPR2016-00534
` Patent No. 8,365,513
`
` Videotaped Deposition of MAGDY ATTIA, PH.D.
` Washington, D.C.
` Friday, November 4, 2016
` 9:02 a.m.
`
`
`
`Reported by: Karen Young
`Videographer: Daniel Holmstock
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.001
`GE v. UTC
`Trial IPR2016-00534
`
`
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`1
`
` IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` ______________________________
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` ______________________________
` GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPANY,
` Petitioner,
` v.
` UNITED TECHNOLOGIES CORPORATION,
` Patent Owner
` ______________________________
` Case No. IPR2016-00534
` Patent No. 8,365,513
`
` Videotaped Deposition of MAGDY ATTIA, PH.D.
` Washington, D.C.
` Friday, November 4, 2016
` 9:02 a.m.
`
`
`
`Reported by: Karen Young
`Videographer: Daniel Holmstock
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.001
`GE v. UTC
`Trial IPR2016-00534
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`2
`
` Videotaped Deposition of MAGDY ATTIA,
`PH.D., taken at the law offices of:
` WEIL, GOTSHAL & MANGES, LLP
` 1300 Eye Street, Northwest, Suite 900
` Washington, D.C. 20005-3314
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.002
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`3
`
`APPEARANCES:
` On Behalf of General Electric Company:
` CHRISTOPHER PEPE, ESQ.
` ANISH DESAI, ESQ.
` Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP
` 1300 Eye Street, Northwest, Suite 900
` Washington, D.C. 20005-3314
` christopher.pepe@weil.com
` (202) 682-7153
`
` On Behalf of United Technologies Corporation:
`
` DANIEL C. COOLEY, ESQ.
` Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow,
` Garrett & Dunner, LLP
` Two Freedom Square
` 11955 Freedom Drive
` Reston, Virginia 20190-5675
` DANIEL.COOLEY@FINNEGAN.COM
` (571) 203-2700
` MICHAEL J. VALAIK, ESQ.
` Bartlit Beck Herman Palenchar & Scott LLP
` Courthouse Place
` 54 West Hubbard Street
` Chicago, Illinois 60654
` michael.valaik@bartlit-beck.com
` (312) 494-4403
`
` ALSO PRESENT:
`
` Troy Prince, Esq., Pratt & Whitney
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.003
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`4
`
` C O N T E N T S
`THE WITNESS:
`MAGDY ATTIA, PH.D.
` By Mr. Valaik.............................. 6
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
` E X H I B I T S
`EXHIBIT NO. PAGE NO.
`Exhibit 1001 U.S. Patent No. 8,365,513........... 22
`Exhibit 1003 Declaration of Magdy Attia, Ph.D.... 22
`Exhibit 1011 Quiet Clean Short-Haul Experimental
` Engine Final Report................. 41
`Exhibit 1014 Excerpts from "Elements of Gas
` Turbine Propulsion"................. 20
`
` - - -
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.004
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`5
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` P R O C E E D I N G S
` - - -
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. This is
`Video Number 1 in the video-recorded deposition of
`Dr. Magdy Attia, taken in the matter of General
`Electric Company, petitioner, verse United
`Technologies Corporation, patent owner, pending
`before the United States Patent and Trademark Office
`before the Patent Trial and Appeal Board, IPR Number
`2016-00534 for patent number 8,365,513. This
`deposition is being held at the law offices of Weil
`Gotshal at 1300 Eye Street, Northwest, Ninth Floor in
`Washington, D.C. on November 4th, 2016. The time on
`the video screen is 9:02 a.m. My name is Daniel
`Holmstock, and with me is Karen Young. We are in
`association with Henderson Legal Services, located at
`1560 Wilson Boulevard in Arlington, Virginia. For
`the record now will counsel please introduce
`themselves and whom they represent.
` MR. PEPE: Chris Pepe from Weil, Gotshal &
`Manges representing General Electric.
` MR. VALAIK: Mike Valaik, Bartlit Beck,
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.005
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`6
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`Chicago, for United Technologies Corporation, and I
`have with me Dan Cooley from Finnegan Henderson in
`Washington, D.C., and Troy Prince, who is with the
`Pratt & Whitney division of United Technologies
`Corporation.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The court reporter
`please administer the oath.
`Whereupon,
` MAGDY ATTIA, PH.D.,
` called for examination by counsel for
` United Technologies Corporation and having
` been duly sworn by the Notary Public, was
` examined and testified as follows:
` - - -
` EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR
` UNITED TECHNOLOGIES CORPORATION
` BY MR. VALAIK:
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Attia.
` A. Good morning, sir.
` Q. Before we get started with the question and
`answers, I wanted to just go over a few ground rules
`to hopefully make today go more smoothly. First, if
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.006
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`7
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`I ask a question you don't understand, just tell me
`you don't understand the question and I'll try to do
`a better job and ask a better question that you do
`understand.
` Second, let me finish my question. I hope
`to afford you, sir, that same courtesy of finishing
`your answer, and then we make the court reporter's
`job much easier. And then third and finally, if you
`want to take a break, just tell me you want to take a
`break, and that's what we'll do, with the exception
`being if there's a pending question, I'll ask that
`you answer my question and, you know, then we can go
`ahead and take a break. Is that okay, sir?
` A. That sounds fine.
` Q. And today we're going to be talking about
`U.S. patent number 8,365,513, and if it's all right
`with you, sir, I'm going to refer to that today as
`the '513 patent. Is that okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. When did you first start consulting for GE
`on the '513 patent?
` A. Little over a year ago in the fall of 2015.
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.007
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`8
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` Q. When you first started consulting, did
`counsel for GE send you materials to review, sir?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What did they send you?
` A. They sent me the patent, as well as the
`prosecution history, and various documents
`constituting prior art.
` Q. When you say various documents constituting
`prior art, can you be more specific?
` A. Yes, various documents that I used in my
`review in addition to documents I already had. Later
`I learned that these documents are called prior art
`in the legal terms. Examples are various patents,
`such as the one by Gisslen, and Harloff, and one by
`Harner, as well as the Willis report.
` Q. When you received the Willis report, is
`that the first time you'd ever seen that publication?
` A. No.
` Q. You had read the Willis report prior to
`receiving it from GE counsel?
` A. Various parts of it. Not in its entirety.
` Q. Prior to your work in this case, for what
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.008
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`9
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`purpose were you reviewing the Willis reference?
` A. I teach the capstone design class at the
`university. That class focuses on the design of
`turbo fan engines for commercial or military
`applications. When I teach the section on combustion
`chambers, I like to point out to my students the
`double annular dome design. Invariably, students
`will Google that. The figure from Willis pops up.
`They download the report and bring it to me to see
`me. So the first time I saw it would be many years
`ago, and then I see it once a year or once -- or
`every other year whenever I teach that -- that
`section, that class.
` Q. Sir, are you being paid for your consulting
`work here on the '513 patent?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you know how much you have received to
`date for your work on the '513 patent?
` A. I don't know the exact number, but
`somewhere in the neighborhood of $50,000.
` Q. Can you approximate, sir, how many hours
`you have spent on your consulting work for the '513
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.009
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`10
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`patent?
` A. For the '513 patent, I would have to look
`at my spreadsheet. I keep tabs on all my hours, so
`-- so the answer's no.
` Q. What industry experience do you have
`working on variable area fan nozzles?
` A. Okay, industry experience.
` Q. Yes, sir.
` A. Okay. During my tenure at Embry-Riddle, I
`had the opportunity to engage in developing a
`proposal. In that proposal, we proposed to design a
`scaled engine test facility for an aerospace company,
`major aerospace company. During the engine selection
`process, we settled on a Rolls Royce AE 3007 engine
`as the most likely engine to do the job. We began
`negotiating with Rolls Royce to provide technical
`support.
` We then learned that Rolls Royce sells this
`engine with nozzles of different sizes. They offer
`-- when you buy the engine, they offer -- you can buy
`it with nozzle A, B or C, nozzle A having a larger
`area, nozzle B having an intermediate area, nozzle C
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.010
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`11
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`having a small area, and then it became necessary for
`us to -- to understand what the impact of that area
`is on the performance of the fan, which was very
`important for the ultimate customer.
` Q. Sir, in your identification of the Rolls
`Royce engine with varying nozzle sizes, those are
`fixed nozzle engines, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And earlier, when I asked you the initial
`question regarding industry experience, you mentioned
`a proposal that you made. Was that proposal to Rolls
`Royce?
` A. No.
` Q. Did the proposal include specification of
`an engine that included a variable area fan nozzle?
` A. No.
` Q. Besides what you've just described in your
`work with regard to the Rolls Royce engines, do you
`have any industry experience with respect to variable
`area fan nozzles?
` A. Industry experience, no.
` Q. Let's turn to the classroom, sir. In your
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.011
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`12
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`teaching both graduate and undergraduate classes, do
`you teach about variable area fan nozzles?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Please explain.
` A. I teach the capstone design class for the
`propulsion track. I alternate semesters. One
`semester I will teach a -- the focus will be a
`commercial engine. One semester the focus will be
`military engine. For the military engines, we always
`select an engine that has a variable area bypass
`nozzle. So I teach the students how to design one,
`how to assess the impact on the performance of the
`bypass, the impact on the fan performance, the impact
`on the cycle, how to go about constructing one, the
`mechanical aspects of it.
` When we -- when the focus of the class is a
`commercial engine, if it's a smaller engine, the
`subject doesn't come up, but if it's a large high
`bypass engine or an ultra high bypass engine, the
`students eventually are led to discover that they
`might need to change the area of the fan nozzle at
`altitude. So the topic then comes up, they ask me,
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.012
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`13
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`and we go into the specifics of a variable area fan
`nozzle.
` Q. When you go into the specifics of the
`variable area fan nozzle in the course of your
`teaching, sir, do you use any references or textbooks
`or publications to assist in your teaching?
` A. I generally just explain the pros and cons
`on the board, but I do have a list of recommended
`books. One or two of them discusses the topic in
`moderate details.
` Q. Have you authored any publications that are
`relevant to your analysis of the '513 patent?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. You didn't cite any of your publications in
`your declaration, did you, sir?
` A. No, I did not.
` Q. Have you ever designed a variable area fan
`nozzle?
` A. One that was eventually certified, no, but
`we -- we work on preliminary design in the classroom.
` Q. When you say that we work on preliminary
`design in the classroom, the we there is you and the
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.013
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`14
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`students, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Do you use any computer software to assist
`in these preliminary designs?
` A. We only use Excel, Microsoft Excel.
` Q. In what capacity do you use Excel?
` A. The purpose of the class of course is
`education, so I don't allow the students to use any
`commercial software that might do the work for them,
`so by insisting that they use Excel, they have to
`program all the parameters themselves in the code.
`Naturally this is an undergraduate class, so the
`level of knowledge expected is commensurate with a
`senior student.
` Q. And you have a lab at Embry-Riddle you're
`in charge of, right, sir?
` A. I do.
` Q. In the lab, have you ever designed a
`variable area fan nozzle?
` A. No.
` Q. And you've never built a variable area fan
`nozzle in the lab, correct?
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.014
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`15
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` A. Correct.
` Q. Can you name commercial production engines
`that use a variable area fan nozzle?
` A. Most military engines use variable area
`nozzles, the F-100, the F-119, the F-135, the F-404.
`Most military engines for fighter applications will
`use a variable area bypass nozzle.
` Q. I'm going to ask you a question about that
`answer here in just a second, but my question, sir,
`was can you name any commercial production engines
`that use a variable area fan nozzle.
` A. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't hear the commercial
`part.
` Q. That's okay, sir.
` A. No, I cannot.
` Q. Now, in your answer where you identified
`military engines, you used the term "variable area
`nozzle" for those military applications.
` A. Yes.
` Q. And just so we're clear today, do you see
`any differences, are there differences between a
`variable area nozzle used in military applications
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.015
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`16
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`and variable area fan nozzles used in commercial
`applications?
` MR. PEPE: Objection, form.
` A. I do.
` Q. Please explain.
` A. In the military engines, usually it is a
`mixed flow engine, which means that the core and the
`fan share a nozzle, and in the military engines,
`there would be an after-burner behind the cone --
`behind the core. A commercial engine would not have
`an after-burner.
` Q. So it's fair to say then, sir, that a
`variable area nozzle used in military applications is
`different from a variable area fan nozzle in
`commercial applications?
` A. In some respects, yes.
` Q. Do you consider yourself an expert, sir, in
`variable area fan nozzles?
` A. To the extent of understanding the '513
`patent and giving an opinion on it, yes.
` Q. And is that based on your teaching
`experience?
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.016
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`17
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` A. My -- my experience during my Ph.D., my
`experience I gained preparing for the class, and my
`experience working on the proposal that I mentioned
`earlier.
` Q. When did you work on that proposal?
` A. I worked on that proposal for approximately
`two years, between 2012 and 2014 time frame.
` Q. And that was for Rolls Royce, sir?
` A. The engine that we selected for the
`proposal was a Rolls Royce engine, but the customer
`was not Rolls Royce.
` Q. Besides your consulting work here on the
`'513 patent, have you ever consulted for GE with
`respect to variable area fan nozzles?
` A. No.
` Q. And besides your consulting work here in
`the '513 patent IPR as well as other IPRs you're
`involved in, sir, have you ever consulted for GE
`separate and apart from the IPR work?
` A. No.
` Q. Besides counsel for GE, have you ever
`discussed variable area fan nozzles with engineers
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.017
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`18
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`that work at GE?
` A. No.
` Q. Prior to your work in the '513 patent case
`here, sir, you were familiar with variable area fan
`nozzles, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And when you received the materials from GE
`counsel, which you specified as the patent,
`prosecution history and prior art, did you look at
`any other references or materials to familiarize
`yourself again with variable area fan nozzles when
`you received the materials?
` A. Did you say prior to -- can you repeat the
`question please?
` Q. Yes, sir. When you received the materials
`from GE counsel, which earlier you specified were the
`patent, the prosecution history and some prior art,
`did you go look at other references at that time
`separate and apart from what GE counsel sent you to
`refamiliarize yourself with this subject?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What did you look at?
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.018
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`19
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` A. I have a collection of books. I looked
`through them, or material. I looked at the -- the --
`the military engines that I spoke of, and of course,
`I had, you know, some previous experience from my
`Ph.D., and I reviewed some of my notes on the -- on
`the nozzle component that I authored back then.
` Q. When you refer to your experience from your
`Ph.D., can you explain how that's specific to
`variable area fan nozzles?
` A. Yes, for my Ph.D. dissertation, I was
`tasked with writing a computer code that assesses the
`design and off-design performance of gas turbine
`engines, so that work entailed that I write computer
`programs describing each component, such as inlets,
`compressors, turbines, combustion chambers, nozzles
`et cetera. So I had spent some time studying nozzles
`and writing a computer program that simulated the
`performance of nozzles.
` Q. Was your Ph.D. dissertation work pointed
`toward engine optimization?
` MR. PEPE: Objection, form.
` A. No, it was pointed towards performance
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.019
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`20
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`assessment, design and off-design performance
`assessment.
` Q. What was the title of your Ph.D.
`dissertation, if you remember, sir?
` A. I don't remember the exact verbiage. It's
`on my C.V.
` Q. And a minute ago when you said in one of
`the answers materials you authored, were you
`referring to your dissertation there, sir?
` A. Yes, it's -- when I said authored, I -- I
`meant writing a computer program to -- to simulate
`the behavior of -- of the parts.
` Q. I'm going to hand you now, Dr. Attia, what
`was included as GE-1014 in the petition, and it is
`excerpts of a textbook titled "Elements of Gas
`Turbine Propulsion" written by Jack D. Mattingly. Is
`this one of the references you referred to as just a
`general source when you received materials from GE
`counsel?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And the excerpts that are included here in
`GE-1014 of Dr. Mattingly's textbook, are these
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.020
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`21
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`excerpts you put together, sir?
` A. I have the book in my library, so I --
`whenever I saw that one of the references was the
`book, I -- I didn't open the PDF. I find it very
`difficult to read such large documents in PDF, so I
`just grabbed my book from the library.
` Q. And when you make this reference to the
`PDF, is one of the PDFs that GE counsel initially
`sent you excerpts of Dr. Mattingly's textbook?
` A. I don't recall if it was excerpts or the
`entire book. Like I said, I didn't open.
` Q. And the specific question I'm trying to get
`at right now, Dr. Attia, is were you sent
`Dr. Mattingly's textbook, or is that something you
`found on your own when you started your work in the
`'513 patent?
` A. I was -- I was aware of it. We used the
`class in the preliminary design class.
` Q. And does Dr. Mattingly's textbook talk
`about variable area fan nozzles?
` A. I believe I address that in my declaration.
`I can dig up the specific paragraph if you want.
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.021
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`22
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` Q. I was just looking for a yes or no answer,
`whether it did. I mean, we can look at your
`declaration if that helps you, sir, but --
` A. Yeah, we can look at the declaration.
` Q. Sure.
` A. We can dig up the exact paragraph.
` Q. Let's do that, and just then at this time,
`I'm going to hand you, because we're going to be
`talking about it today, GE-1001, which is the '513
`patent itself, and then I'll also give you, sir, what
`is GE-1003, which is a copy of your declaration,
`which we'll also be asking questions about today. So
`if you could specify then, Dr. Attia, what you were
`referring to earlier where Dr. Mattingly's book
`addresses variable area fan nozzles?
` A. Do you have chapter 10?
` Q. I should have exactly what you have, so if
`you want to -- if you're referring to something -- a
`page right now specifically, Dr. Attia, I have that
`page right here. I didn't --
` A. No, I mean, this -- this -- this is not the
`entire book.
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`UTC-2008.022
`
`
`
`Attia, Magdy
`
`Case No. IPR2016-00534
`
`November 4, 2016
`
`23
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` Q. Correct.
` A. Okay. I believe the nozzle -- the nozzle
`is in chapter 10. I would have to look there, but
`it's not -- it's not in this -- in this document.
` Q. So Dr. Mattingly's discussion of variable
`area fan nozzles isn't included in GE-1014 here, the
`excerpt, sir?
` A. I think I used the -- the 1014 reference
`throughout my declaration.
` Q. Yes, sir.
` A. But I can't recall specifically if it -- if
`it has specific information on variable area fan
`nozzles or I just used the information to highlight
`certain -- certain technologies.
` Q. Did you select the excerpts from
`Dr. Mattingly's book here to copy for pur
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
