UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
`
`LIVEPERSON, INC.,
`Petitioner,
`
` vs.
`24/7 CUSTOMER, INC.,
`Patent Owner.
`______________________________
`
`Case No. IPR2017-00610
`Patent 9,077,804 B2
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF ARTHUR T. BRODY, Ph.D.
`San Francisco, California
`Wednesday, December 6, 2017
`
`REPORTED BY:
`CYNTHIA MANNING, CSR No. 7645, CLR, CCRR
`JOB NO. 134515
`
`TSG Reporting 877-702-9580
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`LIVEPERSON EX. 1018
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`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
` KIRKLAND & ELLIS
` Attorneys for Petitioner
` 555 California Street
` San Francisco, CA 94104
` BY: NIGEL RAY, ESQ.
` BRANDON BROWN, ESQ.
` KEVIN BENDIX, ESQ.
`
` O'MELVENY & MYERS
` Attorneys for Patent Owner
` Two Embarcadero Center
` San Francisco, CA 94111
` BY: BILL TRAC, ESQ.
`
` Also present:
` Marcus Majers, Videographer
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`December 6, 2017
`9:03 a.m.
`
` Deposition of ARTHUR T. BRODY, Ph.D., held
`at Kirkland & Ellis LLP, 555 California Street, San
`Francisco, California, before Cynthia Manning,
`Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 7645, Certified
`LiveNote Reporter, California Certified Realtime
`Reporter.
`
`Page 5
` MR. TRAC: Bill Trac from the law firm of
`O'Melveny & Myers on behalf of Patent Owner, 24/7.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the court reporter
`please swear in the witness.
`
` ARTHUR T. BRODY, Ph.D.,
` having first been duly sworn, testified as
` follows:
`
`EXAMINATION
`BY MR. RAY:
`Q. Good morning.
`A. Good morning.
`Q. Could you please state your name for the
`record?
`A. Arthur T. Brody.
`Q. All right. Have you had your deposition
`taken before?
`A. Yes.
`Q. And you've been deposed in the capacity as
`an expert witness before?
`A. Yes, I have.
`Q. And about how many times have you been
`deposed before?
`A. Oh, probably around 25 or 30 times.
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` SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA;
` WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 6, 2017; 9:03 A.M.
`
`Page 4
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning.
` This is the start of tape labeled Number 1
`of the videotaped deposition of Dr. Arthur T. Brody
`in the matter of LivePerson, Inc. versus 24/7
`Customer, Inc., in the United States Patent and
`Trademark Office, before the Patent Trial and Appeal
`Board. Case IPR2017-00610.
` This deposition is being held at 555
`California Street, San Francisco, California, on
`December 6th, 2017, at approximately 9:03 a.m.
` My name is Marcus Majers, from TSG
`Reporting, Inc., and I am the legal video
`specialist.
` Court reporter is Cynthia Manning, in
`association with TSG Reporting.
` Will all counsel present please introduce
`themselves.
` MR. RAY: This is Nigel Ray from the law
`firm Kirkland & Ellis. I'm representing the
`Petitioner, LivePerson, Inc. Along with me is
`co-counsel, Kevin Bendix.
`
`TSG Reporting 877-702-9580
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`Q. Have you ever been deposed in the capacity
`not of being an expert?
`A. Yes.
`Q. And about how many times have you been
`deposed in that capacity?
`A. Oh, that would be once.
`Q. Now, is there any reason that you can think
`of that you wouldn't be able to provide accurate
`testimony today?
`A. No, there is not.
`Q. Are you on any medication that might impact
`your ability to provide truthful testimony?
`A. No, I am not.
`Q. And if I ask you a question that you don't
`understand, will you please ask me to clarify it?
`A. I certainly will.
`Q. So referring back to the one time you were
`deposed not in an expert capacity, could you
`describe that time?
`A. Yes. I was a fact witness.
`Q. And what was that case about?
`A. The case was about a company sued another
`company about taking, I guess it would be, trade
`secrets.
`Q. And you were working for one of the
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`Page 8
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`Q. I'm sorry?
`A. Such as paragraph 37.
`Q. Okay. We'll reprint fresh copies. I
`apologize.
` MR. TRAC: Do you wish to take these back?
` MR. RAY: That might be easier, yeah.
`BY MR. RAY:
`Q. We can probably proceed while we're getting
`those printed.
` I'd like to talk a little bit about your
`educational background.
` So in 1973 you graduated from City College
`of New York with a bachelor's degree in physics; is
`that right?
`A. That is correct.
`Q. And later you received a Ph.D. in physics
`from Stony Brook University?
`A. Yes.
`Q. And that was in 1978?
`A. Yes, it was.
`Q. Did you so straight through from
`undergraduate to your Ph.D. studies?
`A. Yes, I did.
`Q. So while you were at City College, you
`applied for the Ph.D. program at Stony Brook?
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`companies?
`A. Yes, I was.
`Q. Were you working for the company that was
`being sued or the company that was suing the other
`company?
`A. At that point, I was working for neither.
`Q. What facts did you know about that case?
`A. I was a vice president of marketing and
`sales at the time they were alleging trade secrets
`were stolen.
`Q. Okay. And what was that company?
`A. That was TechniCom Systems, Inc.
`Q. All right. Just to make things easy, I'm
`going to mark an exhibit. This is an exhibit that's
`already that's already been marked as 24/7 Customer
`Exhibit 2010 in the IPR2017-000610.
` (Exhibit 2010, previously marked for
` identification, was referenced herein)
`BY MR. RAY:
`Q. And, Dr. Brody, do you recognize Exhibit
`2017 -- oh, sorry, 2010. Sorry.
`A. (Witness reviewing document.)
` It is my declaration I submitted in this
`IPR with some additional highlighting that I didn't
`provide.
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`A. Yes, I did.
`Q. And as part of that, you filled out an
`application for the Ph.D. program at Stony Brook?
`A. Yes, I did.
`Q. And your Ph.D., was that -- was there a
`specialty that you focused on?
`A. Yes.
`Q. What was that specialty?
`A. It was high energy partial physics. I was
`an experimentalist.
`Q. What does it mean to be an experimentalist?
`A. So in physics you have theorists who
`provide theory and experimentalists who try to prove
`or disprove theories, and you do that through to run
`experiments.
`Q. Now, your high energy particle physics, is
`there any real-world application to your research?
`A. Oh, absolutely.
`Q. What is some of the application of your
`research?
`A. Well, do you want the more technical side
`of it or the more engineering side of it?
`Q. Whichever one is at a higher level.
`A. Well, the higher level would be, as you
`poke back the curtains of what's going on in the
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`LIVEPERSON EX. 1018
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`Page 10
`universe, you learn different things. So directly
`out of partial physics, as an example, came what
`people are using now like quantum computing.
`Q. Does any of your research relate to call
`center technology?
`A. No. My research at that time did not
`relate to call center technology.
`Q. Do you have any patents?
`A. No, I do not.
`Q. Have you ever filed a patent application?
`A. No, but I've assisted others in doing that.
`Q. What was involved in assisting others in
`filing patent applications?
`A. Well, as an example, at Columbia University
`I was a consulting technical licensing officer, and
`I would review the research done by professors and
`graduate students and determine if there was
`commercial value, and then determine if a patent
`application should be pursued, and then monitor that
`along with the law firms involved. And it was
`typically in the areas of networking
`telecommunications, video technologies, and audio
`technologies.
`Q. And as part of your review and research,
`did you assist in the actual preparation of the
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`Page 12
`speed of the protocols involved so that the people
`answering the phone calls could be more responsive
`to the customers.
`Q. What do you mean by "protocols" in this
`context?
`A. Well, when people typically think of a
`protocol, you would think of something like Internet
`Protocol or Transmission Control Protocol, TCP.
`Q. And so you were speeding up that type of
`the transmission protocols?
`A. Yes. At this time, it wasn't standardized;
`it was proprietary within the Bell system.
`Q. And what steps did you take to improve the
`protocols?
`A. First, we had to determine how much time an
`agent was basically sitting waiting for the system
`to respond, and there were measurements made in the
`call center. And then, in response to that, we sort
`of had a metric, here is the current system, present
`method of operation, and then I looked at various
`parts of the systems that had to talk to each other
`in order to give the agent an answer, and I focused
`on one particular area where I thought that the
`protocol could be more efficient.
`Q. And so when the agent is waiting for the
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`patent applications?
`A. Only sometimes, not most of the time. But
`I would point out to the law firms the key
`commercial features which I assume would be
`protected in the claim language.
`Q. So if the law firms were having trouble
`filling out the patent applications, would they come
`to you to help them with that?
`A. It wouldn't so much be trouble as much as,
`you know, asking for a clarification. The law firms
`pretty much knew what to do to file an application.
`Q. Okay. Now, prior to this case, have you
`had any experience with customer-relationship
`management systems?
`A. Yes.
`Q. And when was the first time you had
`experience with customer-relationship management
`systems?
`A. 1981 to 1983.
`Q. And what were you doing in that time?
`A. I was working at Bell Laboratories and I
`was responsible for one of the systems used in one
`of the call centers within the Bell system.
`Q. What did your responsibilities include?
`A. The first job I had was to improve the
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`system to respond, they were waiting for, like, the
`network traffic?
`A. Yeah, so I'll give you an example. Agents
`work, let's say, an eight-hour day. If they get --
`if they are answering trouble reports, and -- let's
`say they can do five in a day, but you can improve
`the responsiveness by a certain percentage, they may
`be actually able to answer a sixth trouble because
`you shrunk down the time that it takes to answer
`those original five troubles.
`Q. What did you do to make the protocols more
`efficient?
`A. Well, I actually looked at the message
`flows and determined if there was information that
`could be combined into single messages or if we
`could actually have the agent combine things on the
`agent's screen.
` You have to remember, these are the days of
`1200-baud modem, so transmission time became very
`important because you could only send a much more
`limited amount of information in a certain amount of
`time. So if you could speed that up, it was very
`important.
`Q. So you were improving the network
`transmission times, not how the agents themselves
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`responded to the questions?
`A. Well, no, because in order to understand
`whether you've made an improvement, you have to have
`a present method of operation and you have to
`measure how well that's doing, and I had chosen to
`look at the response time of the system. So that
`was measured in what the agent was doing with the
`current system.
` Then we made adjustments to the protocol
`and we did simulations for how much time would be
`saved, and, therefore, if it took an agent -- if an
`agent was waiting out of the hour, let's say, 20
`minutes and you could get them -- or 30 minutes, and
`you could save 15 or 20 minutes of that, you know,
`by the end of the day you've got an hour or two
`hours of extra time where the agent can actually
`take another trouble.
` So the goal was to have the agent handle
`more phone calls at the time by making the agent
`more efficient.
`Q. And did you take any steps to change how
`the agent was using the system?
`A. Yes. Because the system involved screens
`and it was a test system and they had to step
`through certain steps, there were certain things
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`Page 16
`did it involve, I guess, a customer and an agent?
`A. Yes. So the customer would call in and
`then some initial tests would be done to verify the
`trouble, and that would be the first time the system
`would be used.
` Then if the trouble is verified, depending
`on what was seen, it would be handed off to a more
`advanced agent; but the customer would not
`necessarily be online with the agent while they
`actually ran through a longer series of tests to
`determine when the problem might be solved. And the
`customer would be called back and given a time when
`the problem would be fixed by.
`Q. And how is the customer communicating with
`the agent?
`A. At that point, it was by telephone.
`Q. Was this at all an Internet-based system?
`A. No, this was -- since -- this system was
`designed in the late '70s. It's actually
`pre-Internet, where like the TCP/IP protocols were
`laid out in 1981, which is just about the time I was
`doing this. So, as I said, these were proprietary
`protocols.
`Q. But it was computer-network based?
`A. Yes, so there were -- the direct
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`that could probably be done together. So there was
`a change to the screen so that we could actually
`concatenate messages and put them together.
`Q. And what type of system?
`A. This is a system where an agent gets a
`trouble and has to do some initial tests because
`they want to verify the trouble. So the agent will
`actually, say, okay, get the information as to what,
`in that day, the circuit the customer owned, and
`they would run some very quick tests on the circuit
`to see if they could actually see the trouble that
`the customer was seeing.
`Q. Now, you described this as a "test system."
`Was this actually deployed?
`A. Yes. The call center was called the SSC,
`the Special Service Center, and the test system that
`was used by the agents was called the -- one of the
`systems was called the SARTS, which is Switched
`Access Remote Test System.
`Q. And other than improving the protocol, did
`you work on developing the system?
`A. No, at that point I didn't work; I just did
`the simulations and made the recommendations for
`what the programmers then programmed.
`Q. And this call center system, how was the --
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`Page 17
`connections between computers and the screens that
`the agents worked on were probably terminals that
`were hooked up to the VAX systems that were actually
`running the -- in between the agent terminal and the
`remote test heads.
`Q. Okay. So we got into this when I asked the
`first time you worked in call center technology.
` Have there been other times?
`A. Yes.
`Q. And so after Bell Labs, what was the next
`time?
`A. Well, I became involved again when I was
`working at TechniCom Systems. They had an agreement
`with a company called Microsystems to sell what was
`called ARSB system, which was the Automated Repair
`Service Bureau system.
`Q. And when you were at TechniCom, what did
`your work involve?
`A. Well, there I was -- started out as sort of
`the product marketing manager and then I became vice
`president of marketing and sales.
`Q. And in your capacity as the product
`marketing manager, did you work on call center
`technology?
`A. Well, this ARSB was exactly that, but
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`Page 18
`for -- instead of for special service circuits, it
`was what was used for the agent to interface when
`you would call -- I guess it would be your local
`phone company because your regular telephone number
`was acting up.
`Q. And what were your responsibilities with
`respect to the ARSB?
`A. Well, first of all, I had to look at that
`system and make sure that it was providing, first,
`the functionality of the standard ARSB system, which
`was actually first deployed in the mid '70s by the
`Bell system, and then there were some new features
`that were being added, and it was, again, for -- at
`this point, for some services that were coming down
`the road.
`Q. And what did you do to look at the system
`and make sure it was providing the functionality of
`the standard ARSB system?
`A. Well, I was familiar with the ARSB because
`it was a Bell system, and the patterns followed by
`the SSC center, the special services, was very
`similar to the pattern that was followed in the
`plain repair service bureau where the ARSB hooked up
`with a test head -- test system called LMOS, Luke
`Maintenance Operation System.
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`Page 20
`the person, like I would be talking to you. It's
`actually truncated at 3,000 hertz, the actual audio
`that comes out. And the reason they do that is for
`transmission purposes.
` It turns out that you can put things called
`"loading coils" which provide inductance into the
`loop which will extend the range but will always cut
`off the higher-end frequencies.
` Since DSL uses higher-end frequencies, you
`had to make sure that you could have a loop without
`loading coils. And there was a problem identifying
`where the loading coils were because some of them
`were put in 30, 40 years ago.
`Q. So in making sure that the loops were
`conditioned, that was like physically making sure
`that these loading coils are up to standard?
`A. Right. So what happens is, before you can
`even deploy DSL service, you have to test the loop.
`Now, if you're planning on deploying it to hundreds
`of thousand of loops, or millions of loops, which is
`what they were hoping, you need to sort of
`automatically test them ahead of time, and that way
`you can figure out which customers you can give DSL
`service to. Because if the loop was too long, you
`had to have a loading coil in order for the voice to
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`Q. Did you work on any of the protocols with
`respect to the TechniCom system?
`A. No. At that point, I was more concerned
`about matching up features and making sure the new
`features were going to work and address the -- what
`we anticipated were going to be the coming problems.
`Q. And what are some of the features of the
`system?
`A. So this is the 1987 time frame, maybe '86,
`'88, and what's happening is, DSL technology is
`being developed, that's Digital Subscriber Loop
`technology, and -- which is basically to get you
`much higher speeds over your local loop.
` As a matter of fact, I think AT&T still
`uses that, it's U-verse connections, but which are
`much faster now as new technology in that area
`developed.
` And that Digital Subscriber Loop, DSL,
`technology could only work if the loops were
`conditioned in a certain way. So one of the things
`you had to find out is was that conditioning met.
`Q. What does it mean for a loop to be
`conditioned?
`A. Okay. So -- so in a loop -- when you hear
`your phone voice, you hear -- it doesn't sound like
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`Page 21
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`get through.
` And so in the old days, when you would ask
`for DSL service, you would go on a DSL service
`provider screen, they would actually have you type
`in your address, and based on how far you were from
`the office and whether you had an unconditioned
`line, they would be able to tell you whether you
`could get DSL service or not.
`Q. So how does your work on making sure the
`loops are properly conditioned for DSL technology
`relate to TechniCom's call center system?
`A. Well, the ARSB from Microsystems that they
`were selling is assessed -- and that would sit
`between the agent and the -- in the -- and this
`would be sold, basically, to what were called the
`smaller, independent telephone companies, because
`the Bell system had ARSBL modes. So this was meant
`for what were called the independent telephone
`companies which could be something from 3,000 up to,
`you know, a couple of million lines, but not the
`size of Bell companies.
` And so this would sit in between the agent
`and the call center and the test head. And when
`someone would call in and say, "I want -- "I want to
`do -- "I'm having trouble. I hear clicking on my
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`Page 22
`line," the first thing the agent does is runs what
`is called sort of an LMOS automatic test, and it
`looks for short to ground, shorts between tip and
`ring, and they'll do other measures. And all that
`does is, in an automated fashion, again, to verify
`the trouble, and give them some idea of, you know,
`what amount of time it would take to fix it.
` With the loading coils, since someone
`needed to get the loading coils out because they
`wanted DSL service, what you would be able to do is
`now -- this would actually measure not only if there
`was a loading coil but where it was.
` So now you could tell if you had -- where
`to dispatch someone to, which also gives you some
`information about how long it would take to get the
`coils out, because you need to have a technician
`available and then they have to go to some --
`usually some manhole or -- along the street, along
`the -- along the poles to remove the load coils.
`Q. Is it fair to say that the system you
`worked on was something the agent could use in
`offering advice to the customer?
`A. I don't know if I'd call it "advice," but
`you certainly -- you could tell the customer
`information about I don't see the trouble.
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`Page 24
`the line is it on; is it a customer problem or is it
`our problem. That was the first thing that they
`would do.
`Q. And the work that you did was on -- was it
`actually on the interface that the agent would see?
`A. No. I didn't do that. I was looking at
`the features in the system that drove that interface
`and making sure that it had the -- all the existing
`features that the test heads needed, that it could
`work the test heads, provide the normal tests, and
`then provide the new tests that when -- along with
`selling this ARSB, we also sold an advanced test
`head.
`Q. And how could the customer interact with
`the agent in the call center system for TechniCom?
`A. That would have been on telephone.
`Q. Did it have any other network-based
`communication between the customer and the agent?
`A. No, at that point I don't believe there
`was.
`Q. And was there any way for the customer and
`the agent to chat through a computer interface?
`A. No.
`Q. Now, after your work at TechniCom, have you
`done any work on call center technology?
`
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` Well, if you don't see the trouble, at
`those -- in those days, there was something called
`the network interface device, which goes on the side
`of your house, and one of the things you do is, you
`have that do a loopback and cut off the wiring in
`the person's house, and, therefore, if you don't see
`the trouble, you know the trouble may be in the
`person's house.
` So you go, "Look, I can roll a technician,"
`but in those days it's going to cost you money, and
`the technician can fix what's in your house, but do
`you want me to do that. If it's on my side of this
`network interface device, you know, at that point,
`you know, that's our problem.
`Q. Did your work at TechniCom involve the --
`well, let's back up.
` In TechniCom, the customer or the -- sorry.
`Strike that.
` At TechniCom, the call center system they
`had, did the agent have some sort of interface they
`could use on a computer?
`A. Yes. The point of the ARSB is that the
`agent is actually able to, on their screen, run the
`test right when the customer calls in to verify the
`trouble. Do we see it? Is it on -- which side of
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`Page 25
`
`A. Yes.
`Q. So what's the next work that you did on
`call center technology?
`A. I was asked to work for Oracle and to
`provide the requirements for a call center billing
`system.
`Q. What time frame is this?
`A. This would be in the early '90s.
`Q. At this time, were you an independent
`contractor?
`A. Yes, I was.
`Q. And so you started, I believe it's called,
`Brody Consulting? Is that the name of it?
` A. A.T. Brody. A.T. Brody & Associates, Inc.
`Q. And when did you start that company?
`A. It's incorporated in either '90 or '91.
`Q. How big is A.T. Brody?
`A. It's got one employee. That's me.
`Q. Are there any associates?
`A. Well, the associates are, as I have a job
`where we need certain expertise, I will go out and,
`you know, get a team together.
`Q. For the Oracle job in the early 1990s, did
`you hire a team?
`A. No, that was done totally by me.
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`Page 26
`Q. And what did the work for Oracle in the
`early 1990s involve?
`A. Well, it involved saying what the basic
`requirements would be for a call center system that
`would be provided by Oracle, where the purpose of
`the call center system would be to meet information
`that would be -- that the person would provide when
`they would call in. And that would mean
`interfacing, you know, computer telephony
`integration, CTI, work to, like, Oracle databases,
`where you might be storing the customer profiles,
`and also interacting with the billing system so that
`you could take care of billing issues and tell the
`customer what was going on.
`Q. What type of customers would be using this
`system?
`A. Well, the intent was to sell it to
`telephone companies.
`Q. So the customer would be an actual
`telephone company?
`A. They would buy the system and deploy the
`system in their call centers.
`Q. This isn't a call center for Oracle, it's a
`product that Oracle wanted to sell?
`A. Yes. Oracle was considering entering the
`
`Page 28
`A. Yes. The requirements were part of a
`written document.
`Q. And did you describe anything about the
`agent console?
`A. Yes. In order to -- in order to understand
`what the system had to do, is you have to do use
`cases. And the use case would be: Customer calls
`in for new service. What information needs to be
`put on the screens, what will the agent need to do
`in order to get the information from the customer in
`order to apply for new service, was an example.
`Q. Was the system, according to your
`requirements document, intended to be used through
`the Internet?
`A. No, not at that time.
`Q. How was the customer going to connect with
`the agent?
`A. That was going to be determined by the
`telephone companies who were using it. So we
`provided, I guess they call them, interfaces that
`would allow other company systems to interact at the
`computer-to-computer level.
`Q. You said, "interact at the
`computer-to-computer level." Would the system still
`involve human agents?
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`Page 27
`
`telecommunications vertical business.
`Q. I see.
`Did they ever create a product?
`A. I don't think the product was ever
`deployed, no.
`Q. Did you create a working version of it?
`A. I'm not aware. I don't know if they did or
`didn't.
`Q. What was the -- what did you provide to
`Oracle as part of your work?
`A. It was the requirements document that would
`state here is what the agent has to be able to do;
`here is the information that the agent will need on
`their screens; here's the, you know, type of
`information that needs to be stored in the
`databases; and here are the other types of systems
`you will need to interface with.
` Billing systems are very complex and
`whether Oracle could actually make a billing system
`as opposed to interfacing to a billing system was a
`question.
`Q. Did you create any programs as part of this
`work?
`A. No, I did not.
`Q. So you created a written document?
`
`Page 29
`A. Well, you -- in order for -- if someone
`wanted a new interface to the billing system but you
`couldn't provide the billing system, then you would
`have to do something that produces an interface that
`would handle the requirements for a customer calling
`in with billing questions, and then translate that
`into an existing interface into whatever billing
`system they wanted to use or to the billing system
`that Oracle might choose to purchase or develop.
`Q. And according to your requirement document,
`how would the agent communicate with the customer?
`A. Again, at that point, I was just focusing
`on the screens and not the incoming calls or other
`ways.
` At that time, there was -- for larger
`business customers, there were computer interfaces
`provided, customer-managed networks.
`Q. So then the customer could interface with
`the agent either by calling on a telephone or
`through a computer interface?
`A. No. Typically, when they are talking to an
`agent, they would do it directly with the agent. If
`they wanted to change something in the system, get a
`new service, they could directly interact with the
`system, and, depending what happened, maybe an agent
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`Page 30
`
`would get involved.
`Q. And you mentioned they would -- the
`customer would communicate directly with the agent.
`Is that through a telephone?
`A. That would be through a telephone, yes.
`Q. After the work in 1990s with Oracle, did
`you work on call center technology again after that?
`A. Yes.
`Q. And what was the next time that you worked
`on call center technology?
`A. I -- probably the best case would be in
`the -- be in the late '90s, working for a company
`called InterCall.
`Q. Okay. Was this also through your work at
`A.T. Brody --
`A. Yes.
`Q. -- Consulting? Sorry.
`And, again, were there any other associates
`that you hired for this work?
`A. I was actually working with another person
`named Dave Lucantoni.
`Q. And what did your work for InterCall in the
`late 1990s involve?
`A. They wanted to rearchitect their --
`essentially, it was a -- it was a -- sort of hard to
`
`Page 32
`the web, as an example. They could call in and make
`the change and arrange the call themselves.
`Q. Now, did this conference calling center
`involve agents?
`A. Yes. One of the -- one of the things is --
`these are not your typical three- or four-person
`conference calls. The company was actually designed
`to deliver if you needed 100 or 200 bridges. You
`know, if you were, say, a company and you were doing
`your -- you were doing your, you know, fourth
`quarter results and you wanted to have -- meet with
`the analysts, you would need these very large
`bridges.
`Q. And was this all telephone-based
`communications?
`A. Well, the communications on these
`conference calls was, but, as I said, one of the
`things they wanted to do was, for smaller
`conferences, they were looking to automate, being
`able to do that, because they didn't need sort of
`the complexity, you know, involved in, you know,
`talking to 200 or 300 people at the same time.
`Q. So the automated approach doesn't involve
`phone calls?
`A. Well, yeah, at that point, the goal was to
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`describe. It was a conference calling center. So
`they would set up conference calls, and they wanted
`to adjust how the calls were set up and automate how
`people might be able to request them directly
`without necessarily calling an agent.
`Q. And did you actually build a new system?
`A. No. What we did is, we made
`recommendations.
`Q. Did you build a prototype system as part of
`making your recommendations?
`A. No.
`Q. And we