UNITED STATES AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`~ oe eee ee ee ee ee eee xX
`
`COMCAST CABLE COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`vs.
`
`ROVI GUIDES,
`
`INC., et al,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`~------- +e eeee xX
`
`JOB NO. 136943
`
`DEPOSITION OF DR. RAVIN BALAKRISHNAN
`
`New York, New York
`
`February 1, 2018
`
`Reported by:
`
`MARY F. BOWMAN, RPR, CRR
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`Comcast, Exhibit-1111
`Comcastv. Rovi
`IPR2017-00744
`
`Comcast, Exhibit-1111
`Comcast v. Rovi
`IPR2017-00744
`
`
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`~ oe eee ee ee ee ee eee xX
`
`COMCAST CABLE COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`vs.
`
`ROVI GUIDES,
`
`INC., et al,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`~------- +e eeee xX
`
`JOB NO. 136943
`
`DEPOSITION OF DR. RAVIN BALAKRISHNAN
`
`New York, New York
`
`February 1, 2018
`
`Reported by:
`
`MARY F. BOWMAN, RPR, CRR
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`Comcast, Exhibit-1111
`Comcastv. Rovi
`IPR2017-00744
`
`Comcast, Exhibit-1111
`Comcast v. Rovi
`IPR2017-00744
`
`
`
`February 1, 2018
`
`9:05 a.m.
`
`Deposition of RAVIN BALAKRISHNAN,
`
`New Jersey.
`
`Reporter, and Notary Public of the State of
`
`held at the offices of Ropes & Gray, LLP,
`
`1211 Avenue of the Americas, New York, New
`
`York, before Mary F. Bowman, a Registered
`
`Professional Reporter, Certified Realtime
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`APPEARANCES:
`
`BANNER & WITCOFF
`
`Ten South Wacker Drive
`
`Chicago, Illinois
`
`60606
`
`TIMOTHY MEECE, ESQ.
`
`CHRISTOPHER GALFANO, ESQ.
`
`Attorneys for Petitioner
`
`Also Present: Carlos Lopez, Videographer
`
`ROPES & GRAY
`
`Attorneys for Respondent
`
`1900 University Avenue
`
`Fast Palo Alto, California
`
`HENRY HUANG, ESQ.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the
`
`start of media labeled No.
`
`1 of the
`
`video-recorded deposition of Dr. Ravin
`
`Balakrishnan,
`
`in the matter Comcast
`
`Cable Communications, LLC versus Rovi
`
`Guides,
`
`Inc.
`
`reporter please swear in the witness.
`
`This deposition is being held at
`
`1211 Avenue of the Americas, New York,
`
`New York, on February 1st, 2018, at
`
`approximately 9:08 a.m.
`
`My name is Carlos Lopez.
`
`I'm the
`
`legal video specialist from TSG
`
`Reporting,
`
`Inc.
`
`The court reporter is Mary Bowman
`
`in association with TSG Reporting.
`
`Will counsel please introduce
`
`yourself for the record.
`
`(Whereupon, counsel placed their
`
`appearances on the audio record.)
`
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will
`
`the court
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`RAVIN BALAKRISHNAN,
`
`called as a witness by the Patent Owner,
`
`having been duly sworn,
`
`testified as
`
`follows:
`
`EXAMINATION BY
`
`MR. MEECE:
`
`I know I was deposed at least
`
`been deposed?
`A.
`Probably two dozen or more.
`
`Q.
`
`Dr. Balakrishnan,
`
`is that how you
`
`pronounce your name?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`That's correct.
`
`Would you please spell your full
`
`name for the record?
`
`A.
`
`Sure.
`
`It's R-A-V -- I'll try it
`
`again -- R-A-V-I-N. Last name is
`
`B-A-L-A-K-R-I-S-H-N-A-N.
`
`Q.
`
`You've been deposed a number of
`
`times before, correct?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`About how many times have you
`
`Q.
`
`How many times have you been
`
`deposed with respect to the patent at
`
`issue
`
`in these IPRs, Patent No. 8,621,512.
`
`A.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`once on this patent for the ITC
`
`proceedings. There may have been a second
`
`deposition,
`
`I don't recall exactly, but at
`
`least once.
`
`Q.
`
`I think there was two days of
`
`depositions,
`
`like October 28 and 29 of
`
`2016?
`
`A.
`
`That sounds about right. There
`
`may have been -- I think there was one
`
`going to assume that you heard it,
`
`other patent at issue at that time as well.
`
`Q.
`
`So anyway, you're familiar with
`
`the deposition process?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`In general, yes.
`
`And I'm going to be -- so you
`
`know that I'm going to be asking you a
`
`series of questions.
`
`Tf you don't hear a question, say
`
`so and I'll repeat it.
`
`If you don't
`
`understand a question, say so and I'll
`
`rephrase it.
`
`You need to answer verbally.
`
`You
`
`can't just shake your head.
`
`If you answer a question,
`
`I'm
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`understood it, and given me your best
`
`recollection.
`
`Ts that fair?
`
`Yes.
`
`Is there any reason, health or
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`here today testifying with respect to those
`
`And the other one is for -- the deposition
`
`otherwise,
`
`that you can't give truthful,
`
`accurate, and complete testimony today?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`And you're a Canadian citizen?
`
`Yes,
`
`I am.
`
`T'm going to show you two
`
`documents that we previously marked as
`
`Comcast Exhibit 1000 and 1001.
`
`Have you seen these before?
`
`T don't believe I've seen that
`
`T don't believe I've seen either
`
`of these.
`
`Q.
`
`OK.
`
`The first one, Exhibit 1000,
`
`is the deposition notice for IPR2017-742.
`
`notice for IPR2017-744.
`
`And you understand that you are
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`IPRs,
`
`is that correct?
`
`A.
`
`These two IPRs,
`
`that's correct,
`
`Q.
`
`What did you do to prepare for
`
`today's deposition?
`
`A.
`
`Very generally,
`
`I -- well,
`
`obviously,
`
`some weeks ago,
`
`I studied the
`
`both these IPRs, and I wrote a -- wrote two
`
`declarations, one for each of the IPRs.
`
`And more recently, over the last
`
`few days, I've reviewed those documents,
`
`including the related pieces of asserted
`
`material and references.
`
`Q.
`
`Did you review any of your prior
`
`deposition or ITC trial testimony?
`
`A.
`
`I did not review the ITC trial
`
`testimony recently.
`
`Q.
`
`Did you review the deposition
`
`patent, studied the asserted references for
`
`deposition when they sent me the transcript
`
`testimony?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`From the ITC?
`
`Yes.
`
`I did at some point after the ITC
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`to review it back then, but not
`
`in the
`
`context of this review.
`
`Q.
`
`Who did you meet with to prepare
`
`for today's deposition?
`
`Did you meet with anybody?
`
`Yes.
`
`Who did you meet with?
`
`I met with Mr. Henry Huang, who
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`is here right now, and -- that was in
`
`person, and I also, on the phone,
`
`I met
`
`on the case.
`
`Q.
`
`Who were those two other
`
`attorneys?
`
`A.
`
`Gabrielle Higgins,
`
`I believe her
`
`last name is, and the other person who was
`
`Shri.
`
`I don't recall his last name.
`
`I'm
`
`Here? No.
`
`with two other attorneys who were working
`
`sorry.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`you today?
`
`A.
`
`Can you speak up just a little
`
`sure.
`
`Did you bring any documents with
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`Here to the office?
`
`No.
`
`You've reviewed -- you said you
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`reviewed your prior declarations for these
`
`With respect to the prior art
`
`IPR proceedings.
`
`A.
`
`The two that I submitted for
`
`those IPR proceedings, yes.
`
`QO.
`
`Yes.
`
`Did you see any inaccuracies in
`
`those declarations?
`
`A.
`
`Not that I can recall offhand.
`
`T
`
`mean, it would have been nice if I hada
`
`table of contents. That was an oversight,
`
`but I'm not sure I would call it an
`
`inaccuracy.
`
`Q.
`
`Are you aware of any differences
`
`between the reports that you submitted in
`
`the ITC and your declarations?
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection,
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`There are significant
`
`differences.
`
`I don't recall the exact
`
`differences.
`
`Q.
`
`Let me rephrase it.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`details on some aspects of some of the
`references. But
`the substance of my
`opinions have not changed.
`
`Could you please briefly describe
`
`No, I've not.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`references at issue in these IPRs, are you
`
`aware of any substantive differences
`
`between what was in your declarations and
`
`what you put
`in your prior expert reports?
`MR. HUANG: Objection,
`form.
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`think in the current expert
`
`reports,
`
`I might have gone into more
`
`Q.
`
`So you're not aware of any
`
`inaccuracies in your prior reports?
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection,
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Not offhand.
`
`You are not aware of any
`
`inaccuracies in your declarations for this
`
`IPR?
`
`MR. HUANG:
`
`Same objection.
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`think I've already answered
`
`that, but not offhand.
`
`Q.
`
`Pardon me,
`
`I need to ask this:
`
`Have you ever been convicted of a crime?
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`for us your educational background?
`
`A.
`
`Sure. Going back -- I'm assuming
`
`past high school?
`
`No, no,
`
`just -- yeah, after high
`
`I have an undergraduate degree in
`
`computer science. This was awarded in
`
`1993.
`
`Following that,
`
`I worked and did
`
`a Master's degree in computer science. And
`
`following that,
`
`I continued on into --
`
`continued to work and do a Ph.D.
`
`in
`
`computer science.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`When did you get your Ph.D.?
`
`Ph.D. was awarded in 2001.
`
`Where did you get your degrees?
`
`My undergraduate degree was
`
`University of New Brunswick in Canada, and
`
`While you were working on your
`
`my Master's and Ph.D. was the University of
`
`Toronto in Canada.
`
`Q.
`
`All of your degrees are in
`
`computer science?
`
`That is correct.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`degrees, did you ever work as a teaching
`
`assistant?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`What classes have you taught as a
`
`graduate level, a second year -- when I say
`
`computer organization, which has to do with
`
`teaching assistant?
`
`A.
`
`As a teaching assistant? Not as
`
`an professor, not as an instructor, right?
`
`Is that your question?
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`This goes way back, because I
`
`haven't been a teaching assistant fora
`
`long time. Computer programming classes,
`
`hardware or aspects of computering, human
`
`computer interaction, user interfaces.
`
`This is off the top of my head.
`
`This is 20 years ago.
`
`Q.
`
`Sure. What computer programming
`
`classes have you taught?
`
`A.
`
`T've been a teaching assistant
`
`for, and I've also subsequently taught, as
`
`an instructor or professor for the
`
`introductory programming courses at the
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`"second year," I mean second year
`
`undergraduate -- data structures courses.
`
`I've done third year, more advanced
`
`programming concept and systems
`
`programming.
`
`So it's a variety of stuff over
`
`the years.
`
`Q.
`
`Let's talk for a second about
`
`the
`
`introductory programming classes that you
`
`taught.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Sure.
`
`In what programming language did
`
`you typically teach those classes?
`
`A.
`
`These varied over the years of --
`
`Yes.
`
`in the early, early days, it was a language
`
`called Modula-2, Pascal. There's a
`
`language called Turing, and then it became
`
`Java, and then slightly more advanced
`
`classes, C, C++,
`
`just to give youa
`
`example. There were other languages
`
`potentially,
`
`too.
`
`Q.
`
`Did you teach any introductory
`
`programming classes before 1997?
`
`A.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`What did you teach before 1997?
`
`A.
`
`Before '97 -- so I started doing
`
`teaching assistantships during my
`
`undergraduate years. That would have been
`
`'92,
`
`'91, and all the way leading up to
`
`'O7.,
`
`So that would have included my
`
`organization, which is these hardware
`
`courses, data structures,
`
`some of the
`
`systems courses, and some user interface
`
`courses.
`
`Q.
`
`Let's stick with just
`
`programming,
`
`introductory programming
`
`classes.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`sure.
`
`Which introductory programming
`
`classes did you take before 1997?
`
`introductory programming courses, computer
`
`Yes.
`
`A.
`
`QO.
`
`A.
`
`Take or teach?
`
`Sorry,
`
`teach.
`
`When you say, "teach," again, you
`
`include both teaching assistantship and
`
`instructorship, correct?
`
`Q.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`A.
`
`OK.
`
`I can't remember the
`
`specific class,
`
`like the course numbers,
`
`but
`
`they would have been introductory
`
`programming course for first-year
`
`undergraduates,
`
`for example.
`
`So I'm not sure what level of
`
`detail you're looking for here.
`
`Q.
`
`Just at a high level.
`
`conditional statements?
`
`functions in Pascal did you teach to your
`
`So did you teach Pascal class
`
`before 1997?
`
`A.
`
`Oh, yeah, way back, way before
`
`that.
`
`Q.
`
`Let's stick with Pascal
`
`then.
`
`In your introductory programming
`
`classes that you taught where you taught
`
`Pascal, did you teach -- let me rephrase
`
`the question.
`
`What types, at a high level, of
`
`introductory programming students?
`
`A.
`
`Don't normally teach functions,
`
`you teach concepts.
`
`For example --
`
`Q.
`
`So like one concept might be
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`statement. That would be a -- when you say
`
`"programming structures."
`
`A.
`
`I would not call them
`
`"functions."
`
`I would call them
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`A.
`
`Yes, of course,
`
`if statements are
`
`conditional, sure.
`
`Q.
`
`But you said, "if statements,"
`
`you mean like if-then statements?
`
`A.
`
`That would be a condition
`
`conditional, an if-then statement is a
`
`conditional, that's something we would
`
`teach.
`
`Q.
`
`So it's a type of standard
`
`conditional statement
`
`in basic programming?
`
`A.
`
`sure.
`
`And -- sorry -- just to clarify,
`
`you said, "basic," you don't mean the
`
`language basic.
`
`You mean basic as an
`
`introductory?
`
`Q.
`
`Sure. Let me rephrase that.
`
`Is it fair to say that if-then
`
`conditional statements are simple types of
`
`functions that are part of Pascal?
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection,
`
`form.
`
`
`
`Is it fair to say that an if-then
`Q.
`statement is a simple type of programming
`structure that existed prior to 1997?
`
`Do you see the date of the
`
`front page.
`
`Yes.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
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`877-702-9580
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`Balakrishnan
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Sure.
`
`Now,
`
`the provisional application
`
`that issued into Patent No. 8,621,512 was
`
`filed on June 16, 1998.
`
`A.
`
`I'd have to look at that date to
`
`answer that.
`
`Q.
`
`Sure, that's fine.
`
`Let me show you what we have
`
`marked as Exhibit No.
`
`-- Comcast Exhibit
`
`No. 1001.
`
`Can I assume I don't need to keep
`
`You can stack them up.
`
`OK,
`
`I have Exhibit 1001 here.
`
`Q.
`
`And that is the '512 patent,
`
`correct?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`That is correct.
`
`So could you take a look at the
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`provisional application for this patent?
`
`A.
`
`I guess line -- yeah, provisional
`
`application,
`
`following -- sure,
`
`I do, yeah.
`
`Q.
`
`It was filed June 16, 1998?
`
`That's what it says.
`
`Q.
`
`So to keep things simple in this
`
`deposition,
`
`so I don't have to keep
`
`repeating the date, can we agree that
`
`whenever I say before the '512 patent, we
`
`are talking about
`
`the period before June
`
`16, 1998?
`
`A.
`
`I'm happy to take that for this
`
`discussion.
`
`I understand there may be a
`
`dispute on priority date.
`
`I haven't opined
`
`on priority dates. But for this
`
`discussion,
`
`I'm happy to go with that.
`
`Q.
`
`Right.
`
`I'm not asking you to
`
`opine on the priority date.
`
`Just whenever
`
`I say, "Before the '512 patent," I'm
`
`You will understand that?
`
`referring to the period of time before June
`
`16, 1998.
`
`Is that OK?
`
`That's fine.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`T'm OK with that, yes.
`
`So you're familiar with VCRs?
`
`Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`And you were familiar with VCRs
`
`prior to the '512 patent?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Prior to '98? Yes.
`
`Do you have an understanding as
`
`to what a "tuner" is?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`What's your understanding of what
`
`a "tuner" is?
`
`A.
`
`Could I have my report, please,
`
`my declarations?
`
`Q.
`
`Which report?
`
`Do you want your declarations?
`
`My two declarations, please.
`
`sure.
`
`I'm going to show you what we've
`
`Rovi Guides Exhibit --
`
`previously marked as Rovi Guides Exhibit
`
`2108. Tt's your declaration for the
`
`744IPR.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Thank you.
`
`And also, what we've marked as
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`MR. GALFANO:
`
`Do you want
`
`to
`
`swap?
`
`I think the double-sided was for
`
`counsel.
`
`MR. HUANG:
`
`Sure.
`
`Thank you.
`
`Q.
`
`And I'm going to give you what
`
`we've marked for Rovi Guides Exhibit 2004.
`
`It's the -- it's your declaration for the
`
`742IPR.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Thank you.
`
`sure.
`
`OK.
`
`So my question was: What is your
`
`in a signal -- extract one or more channels
`
`understanding of what a "tuner" is?
`
`A.
`
`So I'll preface my answer by
`
`saying I believe,
`
`if I recall correctly,
`
`back in the ITC case,
`
`there was a claim
`
`construction dispute as to what "tuner" is,
`
`but that doesn't appear to be a disputed
`
`thing here. And I don't recall exactly
`
`what
`
`the constructions were for ITC.
`
`But my understanding is it is
`
`some kind of circuitry that enables one to
`
`tune to or connect
`
`to one or more channels
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`in a Signal -- from a signal.
`
`Q.
`
`Are tuners typically included in
`
`set-top boxes?
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection to form.
`
`A.
`
`When you say cable TV set-top
`
`boxes,
`
`is that what you mean?
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`I would say,
`
`typically, yes,
`
`there would be a tuner in there.
`
`QO.
`
`Was it common to have tuners used
`
`in conjunction with VCRs?
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection to form.
`
`A.
`
`Often,
`
`the tuner would be ina
`
`set-top box that would then feed a VCR.
`
`Q.
`
`So before the '512 patent,
`
`sometimes tuners would be in a cable
`
`set-top box that was connected to a VCR?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`That is -- yes,
`
`that is correct.
`
`And is it also true before the
`
`So before the '512 patent, you
`
`'512 patent that sometimes tuners would be
`
`integrated into the VCR itself?
`
`A.
`
`Some VCRs had a tuner integrated,
`
`that's correct, yes.
`
`Q.
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`could use VCRs to watch recorded TV?
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection,
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`You couldn't watch TV on a VCR.
`
`It would have to be plugged into some kind
`
`of a screen.
`
`Q.
`
`Right. Let me rephrase that.
`
`So prior to the '512 patent, you
`
`could use VCRs
`
`to watch recorded TV if the
`
`VCR was connected to a television set?
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection,
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`If you hit play on whatever you
`
`recorded -- when you say, "recorded TV,"
`
`I
`
`assume you're saying recorded onto
`
`something in the VCR,
`
`like a tape.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`It's not a trick question.
`
`So --
`
`When you say, "recorded TV," I
`
`didn't quite understand what you mean by
`
`that.
`
`Q.
`
`So let's assume the VCR is used
`
`Let's assume the VCR has a tuner
`
`to record TV.
`
`OK.
`
`A.
`
`QO.
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`Q.
`
`Let's assume the VCR is connected
`
`to a television set.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`ORK.
`
`You could then use the VCR to
`
`watch recorded TV that is stored on the
`
`VCR?
`
`A.
`
`I could -- I could watch recorded
`
`content
`
`from a -- television content that
`
`was stored on -- the media on the VCR on
`
`being allowed -- allowing the flow through
`
`the television that was connected, yes.
`Q.
`And if the VCR included a tuner
`
`in our hypothetical,
`
`the user could also
`
`watch live TV on the television set that
`
`was connected to the VCR?
`
`A.
`
`Not necessarily.
`
`It would depend
`
`on the VCR.
`
`Q.
`
`OK. What would it depend on in
`
`the VCR?
`
`A.
`
`Whether the VCR -- when you say,
`
`"live TV," you mean something that's not
`
`already being recorded I'm assuming?
`
`QO.
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`So it would depend on the VCR
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`of that tuning signal by bypassing the
`
`recording mechanisms of the VCR.
`
`Q.
`
`Was that common before the '512
`
`patent?
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection to form.
`
`I
`
`think that was known, yes.
`
`So there were some VCRs out there
`
`And it solves the problem of how
`
`that allowed you to watch live TV?
`
`A.
`
`Some VCRs would pass the -- would
`
`allow you to tune to a channel and then
`
`flow that channel
`
`to a TV monitor that was
`
`connected to it.
`
`Q.
`
`OK. What is your understanding
`
`as to the problem that the '512 patent is
`
`trying to solve?
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`think I discuss this in my
`
`reports,
`
`so I'll go back to that.
`
`So the '512 problem -- sorry --
`
`the '512 patent is disclosing a television
`
`program guide system that controls multiple
`
`tuners, allows users to record one program
`
`while simultaneously watching a different
`
`program.
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`to alert the user that the requested tuning
`
`operation cannot be performed when both of
`
`the tuners in the set-top box are already
`
`when both are in use.
`
`It provides a
`
`solution to alert the user of that
`
`conflict, and allows the user to cancel a
`
`function of one of those tuners so the
`
`tuner can perform the requested operation.
`
`Q.
`
`So you are reading from one of
`
`your declarations?
`
`A.
`
`I'm reading and rephrasing some
`
`of the material
`
`from my declaration,
`
`the
`
`744 declaration, and I think it is repeated
`
`in the other declaration as well.
`
`Q.
`
`So you're reading from a portion
`
`of your 744 declaration.
`
`What paragraph were you reading
`
`in use and how to resolve that conflict)
`
`patent is directed to resolving a conflict
`
`I was looking at paragraph 26 and
`
`Q.
`
`To keep this a little bit more
`
`Simple,
`
`is it fair to say that the '512
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`in a multi-tuner system?
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection,
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`think that may be a bit of an
`
`oversimplification.
`
`It is not just
`
`directly resolving the conflict.
`
`It
`
`provides a particular way to do it,
`
`the
`
`resolution with an alert, and so forth, as
`
`I outlined in my declarations.
`
`Q.
`
`Let me rephrase it then.
`
`Does the '512 patent teach how to
`
`the user is
`
`resolve a conflict in a multi-tuner system?
`
`A.
`
`It teaches how to resolve a
`
`conflict where one -- both tuners are in
`
`use in a multi-tuner -- two or more tuners
`
`are used in a multi-tuner system.
`
`Q.
`
`So the '512 patent is directed to
`
`resolving a conflict in a multi-tuner
`
`system where both tuners are busy and the
`
`user requests an additional tuning
`
`operation?
`
`A.
`
`That is correct, at that same
`
`time, yes.
`
`Q.
`
`So an example would be if you
`
`have a two-tuner system,
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`already recording two programs, and then
`
`tries to record a third program?
`
`A.
`
`If I have two tuners and the user
`
`is currently already recording two
`
`programs, one from each tuner, and tries to
`
`Claim 1.
`
`record a third program at the same time, a
`
`conflict arises and the '512 patent
`
`provides an alert to help resolve that
`
`conflict.
`
`QO.
`
`Is the '512 patent limited to a
`
`two-tuner systems?
`
`A.
`
`Could I have the -- I actually
`
`have the '512 patent. Give me one second.
`
`I would say it's not
`
`limited to
`
`two tuners.
`
`It's directed at multiple
`
`tuners.
`
`Q.
`
`OK,
`
`so your understanding of the
`
`claims of the '512 patent is that it would
`
`cover a multi-tuner systems, not just two
`
`tuners?
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection to form.
`
`A.
`
`Well, it says,
`
`"A first tuner
`
`and/or a second tuner."
`
`I'm looking at
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`So there will be at least a
`
`tuners in the preamble.
`
`Q.
`
`It's not a trick question.
`
`So the patent covers a set-top
`
`box having at least two tuners?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`And a conflict is going to occur
`
`when you try to request more recording
`
`options than there are available tuners?
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection,
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`When those recordings are to
`
`happen at the same time, yes.
`
`QO.
`
`So if you're recording two shows
`
`and you try to record a third ina
`
`two-tuner system, you get a conflict?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`In one example, yes.
`
`And if you had --
`
`It's not just recording.
`
`I could
`
`two-tuner system, but it says also multiple
`
`examples here.
`
`be watching -- one tuner could be used for
`
`watching,
`
`for example, or still resolving a
`
`conflict.
`
`Q.
`
`I'm just walking through a couple
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`So using your example,
`
`if a user
`
`is watching one show,
`
`recording another
`
`show, and then tries to record yet another
`
`show,
`
`that would cause a conflict ina
`
`tCwo-tuner system?
`
`A.
`
`Tf that yet another show is not
`
`by one of those other tuners right now.
`
`Q.
`
`Good point.
`
`It's a third show.
`
`Right.
`
`one of the -- is not currently being tuned
`
`If we had a set-top box that
`
`That would be a conflict.
`
`And if a user was watching one
`
`show and watching another show ina
`
`picture-in-picture, and then tried to
`
`record a show, you would end up with a
`
`conflict?
`
`A.
`
`Record one of those two shows or
`
`a third show?
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Third show.
`
`Third show?
`
`Then there would not
`
`be enough tuners in that two-tuner system.
`
`There would be a conflict.
`
`QO.
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`'512 patent, at least in Claim 1,
`
`alert displayed to tell the user when there
`
`is a conflict?
`
`A.
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`could actually record -- let me rephrase
`
`the question.
`
`Assume we had a set-top box that
`
`could record 12 channels at the same time.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`OK.
`
`And the user tries to record a
`
`13th show that is not any of the same
`
`channels that are already being tuned, you
`
`would have a conflict there,
`
`too?
`
`A.
`
`So the set-top boxes,
`
`in your
`
`scenario,
`
`if I understand it correctly, can
`
`record 12 shows, has 12 tuners,
`
`I'm
`
`assuming,
`
`to provide the streams of data
`
`for those 12 shows, and only 12, and you
`
`want
`
`to do a 13th,
`
`then there would be --
`
`13th and it's different,
`
`there would be a
`
`conflict.
`
`Q.
`
`And the '512 patent,
`
`in your
`
`opinion,
`
`is broad enough to cover that?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`How -- in the '512 patent,
`
`is an
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`displays alert in response to the
`
`determination that neither a first tuner
`
`nor a second tuner is available to perform
`
`the requested tuning operation.
`
`Q.
`
`If there is a conflict, how does
`
`the set-top box in the '512 patent
`
`communicate that to a user?
`
`A.
`
`If a tuning operation cannot be
`
`Satisfied, because the other two tuners
`
`are -- the tuners are busy, it provides an
`
`alert.
`
`It displays an alert.
`
`QO.
`
`All right.
`
`So the system
`
`The two tuners are not available
`
`displays an alert to the user when there is
`
`a conflict?
`
`A.
`
`Tt displays an alert when -- the
`
`conflict -- and when you say, "conflict,"
`
`I'm assuming you mean the requested tuning
`
`operation cannot be performed.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes. That is a conflict,
`
`isn't
`
`A.
`
`That is a conflict.
`
`I'm just
`
`clarifying that it's that particular
`
`conflict that it's looking for.
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`to perform.
`
`It's not a general conflict.
`
`Q.
`
`Tt's a conflict in availability
`
`of tuning resources?
`
`A.
`
`Tt's a conflict that those two
`
`tuners are not available to perform the
`
`tuning operation requested.
`
`Q.
`
`So that's a conflict in available
`
`tuner resources?
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection,
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`T think I've answered the
`
`question.
`
`It's a conflict that neither a
`
`first tuner nor a second tuner are
`
`the
`
`available to perform the requested tuning
`
`operation.
`
`Q.
`
`Can you turn to Figure 4(c)
`
`in
`
`the '512 patent?
`
`A.
`
`Sure.
`
`OR.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`What does Figure 4(c)
`
`show?
`
`Figures 4(c)
`
`is a -- it's an
`
`illustration of an alert as described in
`
`the '512 patent.
`
`In the situation where the user
`
`is requesting a third program but
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`recording two shows on tuners 1 and 2, and
`the user is trying to record an additional
`
`OK.
`
`view a third program.
`
`Q.
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`second tuner is in use to do a recording
`
`already, and it's giving the user the
`
`option to cancel
`
`the current program
`
`recording so that it can satisfy the
`
`requested use of the tuner for another
`
`channel
`
`tuning operation.
`
`Q.
`
`So in the '512 patent, a user
`
`would get this type of alert if they're
`
`third program?
`
`A.
`
`I believe 4(c)
`
`is about
`
`the user
`
`trying to view a third program, but let me
`
`double check that.
`
`Q.
`
`I think if you look at the
`
`heading on 4(c), it says, "Recording
`
`Cancellation"?
`
`A.
`
`That's cancellation of the
`
`recording. But
`
`I think you said they are
`
`trying to record a third program.
`
`I just
`
`want
`
`to check that whether they are asking
`
`to record a third program as opposed to
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`A.
`
`So 4(c), and I'm referring to the
`
`description in Column 10 on page 25 of the
`
`patent, 4(c)
`
`is showing the alert that is
`
`displayed when the second or other tuner is
`
`chosen by the IPG to perform a secondary
`
`function,
`
`like viewing something in the
`
`picture-in-picture, but that tuner is
`
`already busy performing the record
`
`function -- in other words, it is already
`
`being used to record something -- and the
`
`first tuner is being used for viewing
`
`television.
`
`So the first tuner is viewing
`
`something -- you're viewing something using
`
`the first tuner, you're recording something
`
`using the second tuner, and the user is
`
`It is tuned to a channel so the
`
`asking to do some other tuning operation --
`
`do a secondary function using that second
`
`tuner, but because it is already recording,
`
`it provides this alert.
`
`Q.
`
`OK.
`
`So in the example that
`
`you're talking about,
`
`the first tuner would
`
`be watching TV?
`
`A.
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`user can watch that channel.
`
`Q.
`
`a channel so it can be recorded?
`
`A.
`
`That is correct. That's this
`
`example.
`
`Q.
`
`And the user requests some other
`
`function, either watching or recording,
`
`which generates a conflict?
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection to form.
`
`A.
`
`Tt is using a some of the
`
`secondary functions, such as a
`
`And the second tuner is tuning to
`
`It could be just different context.
`
`picture-in-picture viewing,
`
`for example,
`
`that generates -- well,
`
`the conflict being
`
`that that tuner is not available to tune to
`
`that requested channel.
`
`Q.
`
`Tf a person is trying to watcha
`
`channel on tuner 1 and record a channel on
`
`tuner 2, and then tries to record yet
`
`another channel, what
`
`type of alert would
`
`the user get?
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection to form.
`
`You can answer.
`
`A.
`
`It's similar to Figure 4(c) or
`
`4B.
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`But, basically,
`
`if it's not --
`
`two tuners are not available -- if both
`
`tuners are busy, it would display one of
`
`these alerts.
`
`Q.
`
`So an alert like in Figure 4(b)
`
`or 4(c)?
`
`A.
`
`4(c)
`
`for sure. Give me one
`
`second.
`
`Yeah, 4(b)
`
`is an example,
`
`slightly different,
`
`this is the PIP
`
`cancellation, but some alerts are very
`
`Similar.
`
`tuned to, it would be a similar alert, yes.
`
`Q.
`
`When you get a conflict, you get
`
`an alert like in 4(b) or 4(c)?
`
`A.
`
`That is correct.
`
`I think that's
`
`fair.
`
`Q.
`
`If a user is trying to record a
`
`first channel on tuner 1, and a second
`
`channel on tuner 2, and then tries to
`
`record a third channel, you would get an
`
`alert similar to what's in 4(b) or 4(c)?
`
`A.
`
`Tf
`
`the third channel is not one
`
`of -- is not one of the channels currently
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`Q.
`So if the user is trying to
`record three different channels,
`that
`
`generates a conflict?
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection to form.
`
`A.
`
`If there are only two tuners,
`
`then -- and the third channel is different
`
`from what it's tuned to, yes,
`
`that would be
`
`a conflict.
`
`about -- are you talking in general or are
`
`QO.
`
`And then one way to resolve the
`
`conflict would be to cancel
`
`the first
`
`program on the first tuner and proceed to
`
`record the second and third programs,
`
`correct?
`
`Let me try it this way. Let me
`
`rephrase the question.
`
`Assume we have a two-tuner
`
`system, and the user is recording program 1
`
`on tuner 1 and program 2 on tuner 2.
`
`The
`
`user then tries to record a third program.
`
`One of the ways to resolve the
`
`conflict is to cancel
`
`the first program and
`
`record programs 2 and 3. Correct?
`
`A.
`
`I think if you're talking
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`you talking about
`
`in Claim 1?
`
`In Claim 1, it says --
`
`I'm just talking in general.
`
`In general, one could provide an
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`alert to cancel program 1 and record
`
`program 3.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Program 2 and 3?
`
`sure.
`
`Another way to resolve it is to
`
`question.
`
`just don't act on the request to do number
`
`record programs 1 and 3 and cancel 2?
`
`A.
`
`Yes, and that's a scenario that's
`
`explicitly claimed,
`
`for example.
`
`Q.
`
`And the third option is to record
`
`1 and 2 and cancel 3?
`
`A.
`
`Well, you don't cancel 3, you
`
`3.
`
`Q.
`
`Why aren't you canceling the
`
`request for 3?
`
`A.
`
`You are canceling the request,
`
`but you are not canceling the recording
`
`because no recording is happening.
`
`Q.
`
`Yeah, but -- it's not a trick
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`So you proceed with the recording
`
`of 1 on tuner 1,
`
`the recording of 2 on
`
`tuner 2, and you cancel
`
`the request to
`
`record the third program?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`And those are the only three
`
`in which you can resolve a conflict in
`
`two-tuner system, correct?
`
`record 1 and 2, cancel 3, or you can record
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection to form.
`
`A.
`
`So I want
`
`to make sure I have all
`
`your permutations.
`
`So if I can repeat --
`
`so the first case,
`
`I'm --
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Let me just summarize.
`
`sure.
`
`You're trying to record three
`
`programs in a two-tuner system.
`
`You can
`
`either record 1 and 2 and cancel 3, or you
`
`can record 1 and 3, cancel 2, or you can
`
`record 1 and 2, cancel
`
`3 -- actually,
`
`I
`
`just screwed that up.
`
`You can record three tuners --
`
`sorry -- two tuners,
`
`three recording
`
`requests for programs 1, 2, and 3.
`
`You can
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`
`877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Balakrishnan
`
`1 and 3, cancel 2, or you can cancel 1,
`
`record 2 and 3.
`
`Those are the only three options
`
`you've got?
`
`MR. HUANG: Objection to form.
`
`A.
`
`If all three programs are to be
`
`recorded at the same time as opposed to
`
`something that's happening later, yes,
`
`those are the three permutations.
`
`Or, actually,
`
`there is a fourth.
`
`I could record none of them at all or
`
`record only one of the three.
`
`There is a
`
`fourth, fifth and a sixth, actually.
`
`Record one -- I can record any of one of
`
`those three.
`
`I could record -- and not use
`
`a second tuner,
`
`too, or I could record none
`
`if I wanted to.
`
`So there is more than three
`
`to maximize the number
`
`permutations.
`
`QO.
`
`Well, assuming that you want to
`
`record 1, 2, and 3, and you can only record
`
`two,
`
`there are only three different options
`
`you have.
`
`A.
`
`Tf
`
`I want
`
`TSG Reporting -
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