•
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`•
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`Lewis, Mark
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`August 28, 2009
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`Atlanta, GA
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`IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`
`FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
`
`TYLER DIVISION
`---------------------------x
`BARTEX RESEARCH, LLC,
`
`Plaintiff ,
`
`Civi l Action No .
`
`- vs -
`
`6 : 07cv385
`
`FEDEX CORPORATION, FE DEX
`
`EXPRESS CORPORATION, FE DEX
`
`GROUND PACKAGE SYSTEM ,
`
`I NC . , and FEDEX KI NKO ' S
`
`OFFICE AND PRINT SERVICES ,
`
`INC .,
`
`Defendant s .
`---------------------------x
`
`RfViS EG
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSI TI ON OF MARK LEWIS
`
`(Taken by Defendants)
`
`August 28 , 2009
`
`11 : 13 a . m.
`
`One At lantic Center
`
`1201 West Peachtree Street
`
`Atlanta , Georgia
`
`1
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`II
`II
`
`IJ
`
`II
`
`•
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`Reporter :
`- -
`
`-
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`202-220-4158
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`F . Renee Finkley , RPR, CRR, CLR , CCR- B- 228 9
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www .hendersonlegalservices.com
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`FedEx Exhibit 1012
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`•
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`Lewis, Mark
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`August 28, 2009
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`Atlanta, GA
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`IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`
`FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
`
`TYLER DIVISION
`---------------------------x
`BARTEX RESEARCH, LLC,
`
`Plaintiff ,
`
`Civi l Action No .
`
`- vs -
`
`6 : 07cv385
`
`FEDEX CORPORATION, FE DEX
`
`EXPRESS CORPORATION, FE DEX
`
`GROUND PACKAGE SYSTEM ,
`
`I NC . , and FEDEX KI NKO ' S
`
`OFFICE AND PRINT SERVICES ,
`
`INC .,
`
`Defendant s .
`---------------------------x
`
`RfViS EG
`
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSI TI ON OF MARK LEWIS
`
`(Taken by Defendants)
`
`August 28 , 2009
`
`11 : 13 a . m.
`
`One At lantic Center
`
`1201 West Peachtree Street
`
`Atlanta , Georgia
`
`1
`
`II
`II
`
`IJ
`
`II
`
`•
`
`Reporter :
`- -
`
`-
`
`202-220-4158
`
`F . Renee Finkley , RPR, CRR, CLR , CCR- B- 228 9
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www .hendersonlegalservices.com
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`APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
`On behalf of the Plaintiff:
` ANNA B. FOLGERS, Esq. (Via Telephone)
` Niro, Scavone, Haller & Niro
` 181 West Madison Street
` Suite 4600
` Chicago, Illinois 60602-4515
` (312) 236-0733
` afolgers@nshn.com
`
`On behalf of Defendants:
` STEVEN L. PARK, Esq.
` JOHN SIEMAN, Esq. (Via Telephone)
` Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow,
` Garrett & Dunner, LLP
` 3500 SunTrust Plaza
` 303 Peachtree Street, N.E.
` Atlanta, Georgia 30308-3263
` (404) 653-6570
` steven.park@finnegan.com
`
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`APPEARANCES: (Continued)
`On behalf of United Parcel Service, Inc.:
` HOLLY S. HAWKINS, Esq.
` ROBERT L. LEE, Esq.
` Alston & Bird LLP
` One Atlantic Center
` 1201 West Peachtree Street
` Atlanta, Georgia 30309-3424
` (404) 881-7000
` holly.hawkins@alston.com
` bob.lee@alston.com
`
`Also Present:
`
` KENNITH DRAKE, Videographer
` MIKE BUTLER
` VALENCIA SMITH
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` I N D E X
`WITNESS: MARK LEWIS PAGE
` By Mr. Park 7, 122
` By Ms. Folgers 117
`
` E X H I B I T S
`NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
`Exhibit 001 Notice of Deposition and Subpoena
` Duces Tecum to United Parcel
` Service, Inc. 11
`Exhibit 002 FDXBTX 108941 through 109008 13
`Exhibit 003 FDXBTX 106638 through 106647 30
`Exhibit 004 FDXBTX 109047 through 109093 57
`Exhibit 005 UPS-BAR 000052 through 98 57
`Exhibit 006 UPS-BAR 00001 through 51 73
`Exhibit 007 UPS-BAR 00177 through 250 73
`Exhibit 008 UPS-BAR 000099 through 176 73
`Exhibit 009 UPS-BAR 00251 through 274 73
`Exhibit 010 UPS-BAR 00275 through 278 73
`Exhibit 011 FDXBTX 109184 through 109233 83
`Exhibit 012 FDXBTX 109234 through 109287 83
`Exhibit 013 FDXBTX 109009 through 109046 98
`Exhibit 014 UPS-BAR 0279 108
`Exhibit 015 UPS-BAR 00280 108
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` E X H I B I T S (CONTINUED)
`NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
`Exhibit 016 UPS-BAR 00281 through 329 108
`Exhibit 017 UPS-BAR 00330 through 338 108
`Exhibit 018 UPS-BAR 00339 through 346 108
`Exhibit 019 UPS-BAR 00347 through 348 108
`Exhibit 020 UPS-BAR 00349 through 350 108
`Exhibit 021 UPS-BAR 00352 through 355 108
`Exhibit 022 UPS-BAR 00356 through 358 108
`Exhibit 023 UPS-BAR 00359 through 361 108
`Exhibit 024 UPS-BAR 00362 through 369 108
`Exhibit 025 UPS-BAR 00370 through 374 108
`Exhibit 026 UPS-BAR 00375 through 380 108
`Exhibit 027 UPS-BAR 00381 through 390 108
`Exhibit 028 UPS-BAR 00391 through 398 108
`Exhibit 029 UPS-BAR 00399 through 410 108
`Exhibit 030 UPS-BAR 00351 108
`Exhibit 031 UPS-BAR 00580 through 684 112
`Exhibit 032 UPS-BAR 000691 through 914 112
`Exhibit 033 UPS-BAR 000915 through 970 112
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This will be the
`videotaped deposition of Mark Lewis taken in the
`matter of Bartex Research, LLC versus FedEx
`Corporation, FedEx Express Corporation, FedEx
`Ground Package System, Inc. and FedEx Kinko's
`Office and Print Services, Inc., taken on August
`19th, 2009. The time is 11:13.
` Deposition is being taken at Alston &
`Bird, Atlanta, Georgia. The court reporter is
`Renee Finkley; the videographer is Kennith Drake,
`both for Henderson Legal Services.
` Counsel please introduce yourselves and
`state your appearance.
` MR. PARK: Steve Park on behalf of the
`defendants. And just for the record --
` MR. SIEMAN: John Sieman on behalf of
`the defendants.
` MR. PARK: I'm sorry. Just for the
`record, I think you had mentioned that today's
`date was August 19th. We should correct that to
`August 28.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Sorry.
` MS. HAWKINS: Okay. Holly Hawkins from
`Alston & Bird here on behalf of third-party
`United Parcel Service, Inc. I'm here with Bob
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`Lee and Mike Butler
` MR. LEE: This is Bob Lee. I'm also
`with Alston & Bird and Mr. Butler is with -- is
`with UPS.
` MS. FOLGERS: Anna Folgers on behalf of
`the plaintiff Bartex.
` MARK LEWIS, having been first duly
`sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. PARK:
` Q. Good morning.
` A. Good morning.
` Q. Mr. Lewis, could you state your full
`name and address for the record?
` A. Mark Scott Lewis, 13130 Magnolia
`Crescent Drive, Roswell, Georgia 30075.
` Q. Mr. Lewis, are you currently employed?
` A. I am.
` Q. Who are you employed by?
` A. United Parcel Service.
` Q. How long have you been with United
`Parcel Service?
` A. I am in my 26th year.
` Q. What is your current title?
` A. I'm a program manager in the customer
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`information management group.
` Q. How long have you been a program
`manager?
` A. I've been in this current capacity for
`around ten years.
` Q. What was your title before your current
`title of program manager?
` A. Project manager.
` Q. How long were you a project manager?
` A. Approximately five years.
` Q. And before that, what was your title?
` A. Manager.
` Q. And how long were you a manager?
` A. Approximately three.
` Q. What are your responsibilities today as
`a program manager?
` A. I have direct responsibility for our
`third-party shipping system providers. I am
`UPS's label subject matter expert. I have a
`responsibility for quality assurance requirements
`for customer shipping solutions related to
`labeling as well.
` Q. What is a -- or what did you mean by
`UPS labels subject matter expert?
` A. I've been -- I've been involved with
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`barcoding and labeling with the UPS since we
`first introduced the ability for customers to
`generate their own labels, so roughly in 90 --
`1991, and as such, the job has grown as -- over
`the years.
` Q. How were your responsibilities
`different as a project manager, if at all?
` A. The difference between a program
`manager and a project manager within my area of
`responsibility would be I have project managers
`reporting to me, so where I -- I coordinate
`project manager's work now whereas I would be
`executing as a project manager. Is that clear?
` Q. Yes. Thank you. I think you had
`mentioned that you had been involved in barcoding
`and labeling at UPS since 1991, which is
`approximately 18 years ago?
` A. Correct.
` Q. So would it be fair to say that you
`have been involved with barcoding and labeling at
`UPS since you were a manager?
` A. No. I had -- I actually was in
`research and development in 1990 involved with
`testing MaxiCode and camera and scanning
`development around that time. So I would have
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`been a supervisor at that time, an engineer
`supervisor.
` Q. Did you have any other experience or
`education regarding barcoding or labeling prior
`to 1990?
` A. I completed my -- I have an
`undergraduate degree in electrical engineering
`from Northeastern University, which was completed
`approximately in that time frame, so prior to
`that to answer your question.
` Q. Anything else that you can think of?
` A. Since that time, I completed a Master's
`from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in
`electrical engineering in image processing.
` Q. Do you have any other degrees besides
`your undergraduate and Master's degree in
`electrical engineering?
` A. I do not.
` Q. Have you ever been deposed before, Mr.
`Lewis?
` A. I have not.
` Q. Let me just briefly go over what the
`deposition is.
` A. Sure.
` Q. Basically I'm here to ask questions on
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`behalf of the defendants in this litigation and
`you are here to answer questions subject to your
`attorney's objections, and she may instruct you
`not to answer certain questions.
` A. I understand.
` Q. If any of my questions are -- or you
`don't understand them or they're confusing to
`you, please let me know and I can try to rephrase
`them or try to ask you a different way.
` A. I will.
` Q. If you need a break at any time, just
`ask me and we can try to take one at an
`appropriate time, but I'm going to try to take
`breaks at least every hour?
` A. Okay.
` Q. Is there any reason you can't give
`complete and truthful testimony today?
` A. No. I have to apologize. I have
`sinusitis. I'm going to cough and blow people's
`ears out on the -- sorry about that.
` MR. PARK: No problem. I'd like to
`mark as Exhibit UPS 1 the Notice of Deposition
`and Subpoena Duces Tecum to United Parcel
`Service, Incorporated.
` (UPS Exhibit No. 1 was marked for
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`identification.)
` Q. (By Mr. Park) Mr. Lewis, have you ever
`seen Exhibit 1?
` A. Yes. It was e-mailed to me.
` Q. Do you understand that you're here
`because of this subpoena?
` A. I do.
` Q. Did you collect documents as part of
`this subpoena?
` A. I did.
` Q. And did you produce those documents, I
`think on Wednesday?
` A. I did.
` Q. Okay. Were those documents from your
`files or did you collect them throughout the
`company?
` A. They were in my personal files.
` Q. When you say personal files, do you
`mean your personal files as UPS?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Are you being compensated in any way
`for your appearance today?
` A. Not for my appearance, no.
` Q. But UPS is paying your normal salary;
`is that right?
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` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Do you have any interest in this
`litigation?
` A. None whatsoever.
` MR. PARK: Let me mark the next exhibit
`in order. I'd like to mark as Exhibit UPS 2 a
`document having Bates ranges FDXBTX 108941
`through 109008, and I'll give you a minute to
`review that document.
` (UPS Exhibit No. 2 was marked for
`identification.)
` THE WITNESS: I'm pretty familiar with
`it.
` Q. (By Mr. Park) What is Exhibit 2 that I
`just handed you?
` A. This is an American National Standard
`issued by the ANSI MH 10.8 Subcommittee 3. It's
`for specifically the marking of unit loader and
`transport packages, but small packages in the
`case of UPS and how to apply two-dimensional
`symbols as well as linear barcodes and what --
`what applications. This is an application
`standard and it chooses specific symbologies for
`a given application.
` Q. I think you had mentioned when I gave
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`this to you that you're very familiar with this
`document; is that correct?
` A. Yes, it is.
` Q. Why are you very familiar with this
`document?
` A. When -- in 1991 I joined the American
`National Standards Committee that created this
`document. One of the things that I had
`responsibility for was to take MaxiCode
`specifically, but UPS's interest, and make them
`available through a public and free way through
`this American National Standard. And so I was
`involved in the creation of this document, and on
`or about this time, I actually became chair of
`the committee that created the document.
` Q. So as -- in your involvement in
`creating this document, is this a true and
`accurate copy of the ANSI MH 10.8.3M standard
`that you've been talking about this morning?
` A. Yes, it is.
` Q. Why was this document created?
` A. Technology was -- new technology had
`been evolving around the introduction of
`two-dimensional symbology such as MaxiCode and
`PDF 417, and it was in the transportation
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`industry's interest to come up with a common set
`of data that are used within those symbols as
`well as geared toward specifically that
`application. So the -- the purpose of the
`standard was so that trading partners would know
`what was in it and what to expect and it wouldn't
`be proprietary to a given carrier, so it's an
`open standard.
` Q. Who was the intended audience?
` A. There are -- there are really three
`people in the transaction, so it's the -- the
`person shipping the package -- the person
`tendering the package to a carrier, the carrier,
`and the receiver.
` Q. Do you know when this document was
`created?
` A. Yes. This was codified in 1996 as the
`title would show and we had been working on it
`for about three years prior to that, maybe four.
` Q. If I direct you to the second page of
`the exhibit, it states approved July 15, 1996.
`Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is that the date that this would be
`published or is that describing some other date?
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` A. ANSI has a process, a public review
`process, so we would start with our subcommittee.
`There would be a committee draft. The committee
`draft would go out for review, committee review,
`and then it would be tendered to the Material
`Handling Institute, which is also shown on this
`page.
` The Material Handling Institute would
`review that amongst all the industries and
`participants in MHI as the parent committee. And
`then once it got through that review, it would go
`to the American National Standards Institute,
`would be published. I can't recall the -- they
`have a periodical that announces the publication
`for review for public review during a comment
`period. Once the comment period was closed, any
`negatives would have to be resolved within the
`subcommittee and the process would iterate.
` So it's a long way to answer the
`question. Once you get through that process and
`there are -- all of the negatives are reviewed
`and resolved, then it goes to publication. So
`the effective date is that date.
` Q. So is it fair to say that earlier
`versions of this document would have been
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`publically available well before this date?
` A. Dozens of versions were publically
`available for a very long time in a very widely
`distributed manner.
` Q. How are they made available to the
`public?
` A. The subcommittee had roughly 30 people
`from different companies as well as industries.
`So, for example, in the case of this document,
`the EIA, Electronics Industry Association, the
`American Trucking Associations, the Automotive
`Industry Action Group, Telecommunications
`Industry Forum, the -- we had the Department of
`Defense, Department of Navy. That's what I can
`recall and then -- so they had a broader
`constituency.
` They would take -- in the process of
`evolving the document, those industry groups had
`their own trade forums where they would bring
`them back. Using example of automotive industry,
`they had a user group; they would conduct
`meetings with their user groups of Ford and GM
`and Chrysler, I would presume, and solicit
`requests. So it was distributed within their --
`their industry. They would take all those
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`Atlanta, GA
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`comments, bring them back into the subcommittee,
`and that would happen for all of the other groups
`as well.
` Q. Is there a way in which anyone who was
`desiring to obtain one of these standards -- or
`this particular standard that's Exhibit 2, what
`would they have to do in order to get a copy?
` A. They'd have to be aware it existed
`through either direct participation or through
`one of their industry contacts, and all they
`would have to do is ask for a copy at the -- when
`it's at the committee draft level, and it was
`free of charge.
` Q. Do you know approximately how many
`people Exhibit 2 was actually distributed to?
` A. I do not know the exact number.
` Q. Would it be in the hundreds?
` A. I would believe it would be in the
`hundreds.
` Q. Basically anyone interested in the
`subject matter; is that correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What was your involvement in creating
`this document that's Exhibit 2?
` A. As the document evolved, I would have
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`Page 19
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`Lewis, Mark
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`Atlanta, GA
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`participated on drafting committees, resolving
`action items that would come out of meetings to
`the point of becoming chair and actually driving
`the venue and questions and resolution of such
`things.
` Q. If I actually direct you to Roman
`Numeral VI of this document, which is, the Bates
`number, which is on the lower right-hand side,
`1420.
` A. I'm sorry. I'm not following you.
`Here (indicating)?
` Q. Yes. That's called a Bates number.
` A. Yes.
` Q. And if you look at 1420, 001420, it
`should be maybe like the sixth page in.
` A. Okay.
` Q. And I was actually using the numbering
`scheme.
` A. I see.
` Q. Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` MS. HAWKINS: What number is that
`again, Steve?
` MR. PARK: You know, I have a slightly
`different version.
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`Lewis, Mark
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`Atlanta, GA
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` THE WITNESS: No. I'm sorry. It was
`my fault.
` MR. PARK: Okay. It should be Roman
`Numeral VI of the --
` THE WITNESS: Yes, it is.
` Q. (By Mr. Park) Okay. Great. On the
`right-hand side --
` A. Yes.
` MS. HAWKINS: Steve, can you wait a
`second. We don't --
` MR. PARK: Sure.
` MS. HAWKINS: Our copy is not the same
`as yours. Roman Numeral VI?
` THE WITNESS: Yeah.
` MR. PARK: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm using a
`different Bates number.
` Q. (By Mr. Park) Let me strike the
`question and ask you to just turn to Roman
`numeral page VI of the document.
` A. I am there.
` Q. Okay.
` (Discussion off the record.)
` MS. HAWKINS: We got it. Okay.
` Q. (By Mr. Park) In the right-hand
`column, third from the top, there is a name
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`Lewis, Mark
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`Atlanta, GA
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`called Mark Lewis. Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is that you?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Why are these people listed on
`this page?
` A. It was to show that the document was
`considered by -- I'm sorry, by companies and
`industry groups, and these people are fairly
`well-known in a pretty small industry, if you
`will.
` Q. And was everyone listed on this page
`involved in the actual process of creating
`Exhibit 2?
` A. This is Exhibit 2, correct?
` Q. Right.
` A. Yes.
` Q. About halfway down in that column
`there's a name Amy Santucci.
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you know Amy Santucci?
` A. I do.
` Q. Was she involved in the creation of
`this document?
` A. Yes, she was.
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` Q. Do you recall what company she was
`working at at the time?
` A. Roadway Package Systems.
` Q. Also known as RPS?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How about Mark Thomas further down that
`list?
` A. I know him well.
` Q. Do you remember what company he was
`working with?
` A. Federal Express, The Express.
` Q. Was he also involved in the creation of
`this document?
` A. Yes, he was.
` Q. On the very left-hand side there is a
`name Allan Gilligan?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Who is Allan Gilligan?
` A. Allan Gilligan became chair at one
`time. He worked for AT and -- no. I'm sorry.
`I'm trying to think. I can't recall who he works
`for right now. I'll think about it. At the time,
`I believe he worked for Bell Labs at the creation
`of this document. He actually -- and the way
`that this was structured at that time was -- was
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`Page 23
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`Lewis, Mark
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`Atlanta, GA
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`coordinating the meetings for the creation of
`this document.
` Q. Do you recognize the name right below
`Allan Gilligan, Craig K. Harmon?
` A. I do.
` Q. Who is Craig K. Harmon?
` A. Craig Harmon is a consultant, QED
`Systems, out of Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and he in --
`in a very small industry, he is probably the
`largest creator or participant in standards
`development for automatic data capture.
` Q. Is that the barcoding industry; is that
`what you're saying?
` A. Yes, barcoding, radiofrequency
`identification, two-dimensional barcodes.
` Q. You had mentioned that these people
`listed on this page were well-known in a fairly
`small industry. Do you recall that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. The other people that we haven't talked
`about, are they from various different companies
`as well?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you recall some of the companies
`that were involved?
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`Page 24
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`Lewis, Mark
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`Atlanta, GA
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` A. I do. Sprague Ackley was Intermec.
`Doug Anderson was The American Trucking
`Associations. Christina Barkin was Symbol
`Technologies. Chuck Biss was PSC, now Hand-Held
`Products. Joe Burgess was Caterpillar. Stu
`Crouse was DOD, I think. Chris Cummins was the
`Uniform Code Council, which represents retailers
`and manufacturers. I can't recall Bruce Gordon.
`Jim Hansen was Consolidated Freightways. I
`forget Charlie Hatheway. Rob Hussey was
`Hand-Held Products. I can't recall the rest in
`that --
` Q. Okay.
` A. Rick Lafferty was the Air Transport
`Association. Bob McQuade was in the Automotive
`Industry Action Group. Bert Moore was a
`consultant. We already said Amy. Marilyn Sherry
`was with the automotive industry -- Automotive
`Industry Action Group. Jim Sykes was with Levi
`Strauss. Talked about Mark Thomas. Diane
`Weidrick was with Roadway. Norm Weiland was with
`-- or I forget. I'm sorry. My memory --
` Q. No. That's plenty. Thank you. In
`creating this document, these people, I think you
`had said, were involved, I think you had said,
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`Lewis, Mark
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`Atlanta, GA
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`for approximately three years before this
`standard that's Exhibit 2 was published?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Is that right? In the discussions that
`led up to the creation of this document, were
`documents or other information discussed among
`the committee members?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Were those -- were those documents
`considered confidential?
` A. No. In fact, we -- as part of American
`National Standard, things had to be public and
`freely available, so we, UPS, had to submit a
`letter stating that -- because we had a patent on
`MaxiCode, that it was free for use --
`royalty-free I believe was the terminology -- and
`so there were a lot of -- there were a lot of
`documents leading up to what ended up being this.
` We did -- we did extensive testing and
`specifically the participants, these -- there
`were a lot of folks that over the course of three
`years participated, mostly barcode industry folks
`that were trying to submit other symbologies for
`consideration so that this is more of the core
`continuous group; and there was probably half
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`Lewis, Mark
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`again as many people that were participating on
`an ad hoc basis.
` Q. Do you recall ever discussing or
`receiving any documents that would have been
`considered confidential at the time?
` A. No.
` Q. Do you consider Exhibit 2 to be
`confidential?
` A. No.
` Q. I think you had already said it was
`public?
` A. It is public.
` Q. Can you tell me exactly when this
`standard was first published?
` A. Can you clarify?
` Q. I'm just wondering is -- I know we had
`discussed some of the earlier drafts and whatnot,
`and you had discussed that it was approved on
`July 15, 1998 -- 1996. Is that the date when it
`was actually first published or it was some date
`earlier than that?
` A. We had drafts. We started with an
`outline. The way the document process works is
`we'll start with an outline pretty much from
`other docs, and that would have been a working
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`draft in as early as the first meeting on the
`topic. So somewhere in the course of the three
`prior years, the first initiated meeting, we
`would have started to frame up the doc.
` Q. But this specific document in this
`form.
` A. What you're looking at here is
`something that is made available for purchase
`through the American National Standards
`Institute, and so this -- this specific form
`you're referring to is something you would have
`to buy from ANSI based on the date that's on the
`front of the document.
` Q. I see. Earlier versions would have
`been available earlier, but this particular --
` A. Correct, through the public review
`process up to the point where it was codified as
`a standard. Once -- once it became a standard,
`their copyright took over and that's how they
`would earn their operating funds.
` Q. How would one go about purchasing this
`document from ANSI at that time?
` A. You could go online and log in and
`order it using a credit card and you could search
`the site, and then if you knew of the document,
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`you could actually type the document number in
`and put your credit card in and it will be
`shipped to you.
` Q. And that was true in 1996 as well?
` A. I think so.
` Q. Do you recall, before it was available
`on the Internet, were there other ways in which
`you can obtain ANSI standards, including the ANSI
`standards that's Exhibit 2?
` A. I believe ANSI had a catalog of
`documents that they would make available upon
`request and then you could order them via phone.
` Q. And how often would those catalogs be
`created?
` A. I don't know. I don't know.
` Q. Within a year; is that fair?
` A. I believe they were updated as new
`standards were made available, so I believe it
`was a -- you know, much like a Word doc, so to
`speak, and there -- because documents are in
`different states, and the only way that ANSI gets
`funded is through the selling of the document, so
`as the new ones were, that was updated.
` Q. Is Exhibit 2 and documents similar to
`Exhibit 2 the type of document that ANSI creates
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`regularly?
` A. Yes.
` Q. As part of its business?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is it important for ANSI to make sure
`documents such as Exhibit 2 is accurate?
` A. Can you clarify?
` Q. I think you had mentioned that there
`were various reasons why someone would come in
`and try to get a copy of the ANSI standard.
` A. Yes.
` Q. And I think it was some -- to conform
`to one type of standard across --
` A. Correct.
` Q. -- multiple different parties? Is it
`fair to say that it was important for ANSI to
`make sure that those people received accurate
`information?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Exhibit 2 was not created for
`litigation purposes, correct?
` A. It was not.
` Q. It was created as a part of regular
`course of business for ANSI, correct?
` A. To facilitate commerce.
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`He
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