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`RECORD OF ORAL HEARING
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`____________
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`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`______
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`SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA, INC.,
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`Petitioner,
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`v.
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`PRISUA ENGINEERING CORP.,
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`Patent Owner.
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`____________
`
`
`Case IPR 2017-01188
`Patent 8,650,591 B2
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`____________
`
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`Held: August 22, 2018
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`____________
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`
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`Before BARBARA A. PARVIS, MATTHEW R. CLEMENTS, and
`TERENCE W. MCMILLIN, Administrative Patent Judges.
`
`
`
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`IPR 2017-01188
`Patent 8,650,591 B2
`
`HEATH J. BRIGGS, ESQUIRE
`Greenberg Traurig, LLP
`The Tabor Center
`1200 17th Street
`Suite 2400
`Denver, CO 80202
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`APPEARANCES:
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`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONR:
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` BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
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`JOHN CAREY, ESQUIRE
`BRIAN WILSON, ESQUIRE
`Carey Rodriguez Milian Gonya, LLP
`1395 Brickell Avenue
`Suite 700
`Miami, FL 33131
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`
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`The above-entitled matter came on for hearing on Wednesday, August
`22, 2018, commencing at 1 p.m., at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office,
`600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, Virginia, before Merinda Evans, Notary
`Public.
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`JUDGE PARVIS: Please be seated. Good afternoon everyone,
`welcome to the Board. This is an oral argument in IPR2017-01188. The
`challenged patent is U.S. patent No. 8,650,591 B2. Petitioner is Samsung
`Electronics America, Incorporated, Patent Owner is --
`JUDGE MCMILLIN: Can you hear me?
`JUDGE PARVIS: Can you hear me? Patent Owner is --
`JUDGE CLEMENTS: Judge McMillin, this is Judge Clements. I can
`hear you, but Judge Parvis we cannot hear anything going on.
`JUDGE PARVIS: You can't hear me? Okay, hold on.
`JUDGE CLEMENTS: We can hear you now. Thank you.
`JUDGE PARVIS: Petitioner is Samsung Electronics, America,
`Incorporated. Patent Owner is Prisua Engineering Corporation. I'm
`Administrative Patent Judge Parvis. Judges Clements and McMillin are
`appearing remotely. At this time we'd like counsel to introduce yourselves,
`your partners and your guests starting with Petitioner. Please use the
`microphone.
`MR. BRIGGS: Good afternoon, Your Honor. This is Heath Briggs,
`counsel for Petitioner Samsung from the law firm Greenberg Traurig. With
`me is co-counsel, Steve Ullmer, also of Greenberg Traurig. We also have
`Chris Burrell from Samsung and his guest. I'm going to mess up your name,
`so.
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`MR. PARK: Jong Chul Park.
`MR. BRIGGS: Jong Chul Park. Thank you.
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`JUDGE PARVIS: Thank you. Patent Owner.
`MR. WILSON: Hi, good afternoon, Your Honors. I'm Brian Wilson
`for Patent Owner, Prisua Engineering. With me is my colleague John Carey
`with the firm Carey Rodriguez Gonya & Milian, and we don't have any
`guests today.
`JUDGE PARVIS: Thank you. Before we begin we want to remind
`the parties that guidance for this hearing was provided in our Trial Hearing
`Order of July 31, 2018. As you know from that Trial Hearing Order, each
`side has been given 45 minutes total time for oral argument. Petitioner bears
`the ultimate burden of proof that Patent Owner's claims at issue in this
`review are unpatentable. Petitioner therefore will proceed first to present its
`case with respect to the challenged claims and grounds for which the Board
`instituted trial. Thereafter, Patent Owner will respond to Petitioner's
`presentation. Petitioner may reserve some rebuttal time to reply to the
`arguments presented by the Patent Owner.
`We have a few other reminders. This hearing is open to the public
`and a full transcript of it will become part of the record. Also please
`remember to speak into the microphone at the podium so that all judges,
`including the remote judges, can hear you and please speak into the
`microphone information to identify any document projected on the screen as
`that document will not be viewable by anyone reading the transcript or the
`judge appearing remotely. Because two judges are remote today in the
`interest of maintaining a clear record, when you refer to a demonstrative
`please refer to the slide number so that it will appear in the record and so the
`remote judges can follow along. They have copies of your demonstratives.
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`Does Petitioner have any questions?
`MR. BRIGGS: We do not.
`JUDGE PARVIS: Patent Owner.
`MR. WILSON: Yes, Your Honor, we have one question.
`JUDGE PARVIS: Yes.
`MR. WILSON: Would you like me to come to the podium?
`JUDGE PARVIS: Yes, please.
`MR. WILSON: Your Honor, there were amendments to the Trial
`Practice Guide published subsequent to the Trial Order in this case --
`JUDGE PARVIS: Yes.
`MR. WILSON: -- and those amendments state that Patent Owners
`can reserve some time for a surrebuttal at the oral hearing and we'd like to
`reserve a small amount of our 45 minutes for a surrebuttal.
`JUDGE PARVIS: Do either of the other judges have any -- would
`you like to ask any questions? Does Petitioner have any objections to that?
`MR. BRIGGS: We have no objections to that.
`JUDGE PARVIS: Okay. You may.
`MR. WILSON: Thank you.
`JUDGE PARVIS: Petitioner, would you like to reserve some rebuttal
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`time?
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`MR. BRIGGS: Yes. We'd like to reserve half of our time, Your
`Honor.
`JUDGE PARVIS: Half of your time?
`MR. BRIGGS: Yes,
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`JUDGE PARVIS: Okay. So any time you're ready counsel for
`Petitioner, you may proceed.
`MR. BRIGGS: Your Honor, did you need a hard copy of the
`demonstratives?
`JUDGE PARVIS: I do not.
`MR. BRIGGS: Okay.
`JUDGE PARVIS: Thank you.
`MR. BRIGGS: Good afternoon. Again, I'm Heath Briggs, law firm
`Greenberg Traurig. With me is co-counsel Steve Ullmer. If it please the
`Court, Petitioner would like to cut right to the chase and address the key
`disputes between the parties as we see it but Petitioner is happy to discuss
`any issues that the panel would like and in any order.
`Slide 5, please. So in Petitioner's view there are four key disputes
`between the parties. The first is whether Patent Owner's use of the word
`apparatus in its preamble distinguishes over the prior art cited by Petitioner
`in this case. The second key dispute is whether the prior art discloses
`displaying the original video stream to the users. The third dispute is
`whether the prior art discloses the spatially matching limitation of the claims
`and the fourth dispute surrounds the Supreme Court's SAS decision, this
`patent's IPXL claims and the Board's statutory requirement under 318(a) to
`address all challenged claims in this final written decision.
`Slide 6, please. So key dispute No. 1 as I mentioned relates to the
`apparatus preamble of Patent Owner's claims and whether that word is
`sufficient to distinguish over the prior art cited in the petition. It is not
`sufficient.
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`Slide 7, please. In essence Patent Owner's argument is that its
`apparatus is limited to a single unitary device or what I like to call the
`package. Everything's packaged into this device. This is evidenced by
`Patent Owner's testimony as here and Patent Owner's briefing on the subject
`in this case.
`Slide 8, please. But Patent Owner's argument is wrong for several
`reasons. First and foremost, that the claim does not limit the device to a
`single device. In fact, multiple devices are listed in the claim. So we can
`see here an image capture device, an image display device, a data entry
`device, so the argument that a single unitary device is required is expressly
`denied by the plain language of the claims. The claim also requires an
`external memory device, external, so the claims apparatus is not limited to a
`single unitary device or the package. Patent Owner's argument is also
`incorrect because it asks this Board to read limitations from the specification
`that are not actually in the claims, while terms such as hand held, portable,
`stand alone, are recited in the specification of the 591 patent they are
`nowhere in the body this claim.
`Slide 9, please. And in fact the approach offered by Patent Owner here
`has been already denied in the case of In re Walter that we cited in our
`briefing where there the Patent Owner, as of here, asked that their apparatus
`claims be limited to a unitary device in a physical location sense and CCPA
`said that's not how this works. We are asked to read limitations into the
`claims which are not here, and that's exactly what Patent Owner's asking this
`panel to do in this case.
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`Slide 11, please. In reality it doesn't matter whether the word is
`apparatus or system. They are the same thing for purposes of determining
`patentability in this case. That is recognized in In re Walter and other cases
`on the subject. In fact, Patent Owner cites no authority that a patent has ever
`been allowed or granted or upheld when plainly using the word apparatus
`over prior art systems. So Patent Owner's contention on this point is wrong.
`Slide 13, please. I'd like to now move to the second key dispute
`between the parties which is whether limitation 1B is disclosed by the prior
`art. This limitation requires an image display device displaying the original
`video. This is what I like to call Patent Owner's walled off argument in that
`the users are walled off from ever seeing the original video, even though
`they are selecting who they want to replace in that original video.
`Slide 14, please. So this is figure 1 of Sitrick. On the right hand side
`is the edited video. There's no dispute that that edited video is displayed to
`the users. The dispute surrounds around whether the program video 120 is
`displayed to the users.
`Slide 15, please. And for purposes of clarity there is no dispute that
`the program video of Sitrick is the same thing as the original video stream of
`the limitation 1B. 17, please. And it's clear from Petitioner's briefing that
`Sitrick discloses user select portions of the predefined audio visual
`presentations. So portions, if you're going to select a portion you view it.
`That's the natural reading of Sitrick and this is confirmed by our
`experts, slide 18, please, who explained in his initial declaration and again in
`his supplemental declarations why Sitrick discloses this limitation and Patent
`Owner has never actually taken on our arguments on paragraph 13 of Sitrick
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`and why, if you're going to select a portion, you would view the video.
`Patent Owner skirts the issue, they never take it on, so this means that our
`argument is now left unaddressed and unrebutted and we should win on the
`facts then.
`Moving on to Senftner, slide 20 please. Similar to Sitrick, in the
`petition we cited figure 10 which shows a computer and a requester sitting at
`that computer who requests content in the video library to personalize. I'm
`going to request content, I'm going to personalize it.
`Next slide, please. As also recited in the petition, the user looks at
`that content and selects a target in the original digital video to be replaced by
`a target replacement. Again, natural reading, I'm sitting at a computer, I get
`the original video, I look at it so I can make the target selection.
`Slide 22, please. And again, Petitioner's expert's testimony on this is
`they're saying that this is the natural reading of the reference. You look at
`the video if you're going to make a selection and Petitioner's expert has
`never been cross-examined in this case so his testimony is left unchallenged.
`Slide 23, please. The next key dispute between the parties is the
`spatially matching limitation of the claims. Patent Owner disputes that
`Sitrick and Senftner disclose this limitation.
`Slide 24, please. But Patent Owner admits that spatially matching is
`known in the art. Slide 25, please. And this is just another example of
`Patent Owner admitting that spatially matching is done and may be done in
`a variety of well-known ways.
`JUDGE PARVIS: Is spatially matching performed by the digital
`processing unit in Petitioner's view?
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`MR. BRIGGS: In Petitioner's view, the prior art of Sitrick and
`Senftner the computers perform the spatially matching operation. That's our
`view.
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`JUDGE PARVIS: So in claim 1 the digital processing unit does the
`functions, for example, of spatially matching; is that correct?
`MR. BRIGGS: Correct.
`JUDGE PARVIS: And what structure other than unit is recited in
`claim 1, for example, for performing this function?
`MR. BRIGGS: Can we put claim 1 up, please? It's Exhibit 1001.
`JUDGE PARVIS: I think it's one of your first slides also.
`MR. BRIGGS: This is slide 6, and we're sorry for the very small text,
`but this is also Exhibit 1001, column 7, lines 14 through 54 approximately.
`JUDGE PARVIS: Yes. So --
`MR. BRIGGS: So the question was, Your Honor, what structure is in
`the digital processing unit?
`JUDGE PARVIS: What structure is recited in claim 1 other than the
`word unit for performing the functions, for example, of identifying,
`extracting, storing, spatially matching, all the functions?
`MR. BRIGGS: I understand, Your Honor. The structure for
`performing those particular operations are not recited in the claim.
`JUDGE PARVIS: So if the only structure there is recited in claim 1,
`to the extent there's any structure, is unit?
`MR. BRIGGS: As far as Petitioner can tell, yes.
`JUDGE PARVIS: Okay. Thank you.
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`MR. BRIGGS: You're welcome. We're at slide 26, I believe.
`Regarding Sitrick, the Board has already found that Sitrick explicitly
`discloses the transforms that align a set of pixels in a spatial domain and
`Patent Owner has never addressed this argument in any of its briefing. It
`skirts the issue, goes to another paragraph or this or that and the other thing,
`but never takes on this argument that Sitrick's transforms align the pixels and
`set it in the spatial domain.
`Slide 28, please. And the same thing applies for Senftner. In Senftner
`we recited in the petition various paragraphs including this one that says you
`match up the two images and a substantial match occurs when the
`personalized video presents a convincing illusion that the new actor was
`actually presented when the video was created. If you're going to align two
`images in a spatial domain to achieve a substantial match, that is aligning
`pixels in a spatial domain and, again, Patent Owner has no arguments to the
`contrary on this particular topic. So, again, Petitioner's argument in the
`petition is left unrebutted.
`And the final item, Your Honors, we'd like to discuss today on our
`side is, slide 34, please, is the IPXL indefiniteness of the claims and SAS,
`and how it relates to all the grounds and claims that Petitioner asked to
`challenge in the original petition and those grounds are listed here. Claims
`1 through 4 and 11 request to be invalidated.
`Slide 31, please. Petitioner asks this panel to do exactly what was
`done in Vibrant Media. In Vibrant Media very similar to the situation here,
`IPXL claims but they reached the decision of 102 and 103 based off the
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`ability to construe the claims for patentability purposes as opposed to
`infringement purposes and we asked the Court to do the same thing here.
`Slide 32, please. And this approach has not only been endorsed by
`one PTAB panel, it's also been endorsed by the Federal Courts. I know this
`is an old case but it's cited by the Vibrant panel, In re Collier, CCPA case
`says you can reach the determination of obviousness even though the claims
`are indefinite. In Petitioner's view that is the course of action that should be
`taken by this panel in view of SAS and the requirements under the statute
`that all claims be addressed regarding patentability.
`Slide 37, please. Under SAS if for some reason the panel believes
`that they're unable to do, despite the IPXL indefiniteness of the claims, reach
`the patentability decision in 102, 103, you have to say so in the final written
`decision under SAS and Section 318.
`If there are no further questions, Petitioner would like to reserve --
`JUDGE CLEMENTS: Counsel, before you sit down let's go back to
`the personalized video point.
`MR. BRIGGS: Okay.
`JUDGE CLEMENTS: And let's see if there's a particular slide of
`yours, well what I really want to go to is the petition. So at pages 19 to 20 of
`the petition where you have the image display device displaying the original
`video stream limitation, this is with respect to Senftner, ground one. You
`say Senftner at column 21, lines 6 to 8, where it says the personalized video
`may then be presented to user 650 by means of display device and then the
`next sentence in the petition says figure 10 also shows a computer 670 with
`a monitor that may be used to display the original video data stream, and so I
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`just want to understand because for ground one there is an anticipation
`allegation and an obviousness allegation and at least when I look here at
`what's cited for Senftner it doesn't explicitly appear to disclose displaying
`the original video data stream. The explicit disclosure seems to be about
`displaying a personalized video and then there seems to be an additional
`argument, maybe this is the obviousness allegation, that the display device --
`a person of ordinary skill in the art would have recognized the display device
`could be used to display the original video data stream too.
`So what exactly is Petitioner's contention with respect to this
`limitation? Are you still relying on anticipation saying that Seftner
`explicitly discloses the image display device displaying the original video
`data stream?
`MR. BRIGGS: Your Honor, that is our position that the reference
`discloses it and it's not just this short paragraph here. Claim 1 is very long
`and we have a whole story that we told as you go through claim 1 how the
`reference meets all of the limitations. In the interest of space this is a
`paragraph on how the image display device displays the original video
`stream. We thought it was pretty self-evident that when you're going to
`select that you're going to see this original video stream. Patent Owner has
`now contested that. We provided rebuttal evidence why that is true that the
`user selects the -- when the selecting is done the user looks at the video.
`That's the natural read of it, so it's our opinion that the reference still
`discloses the limitation even though this says figure 10 also shows a
`computer. This is in the context of the whole read of claim 1 where we set it
`up with the preamble and why you do the selecting and why Seftner wants to
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`personalize videos. It just makes no sense that you're never going to view
`the video if you want to personalize it.
`JUDGE CLEMENTS: I agree that that's true. I was just curious, so is
`there somewhere else in the preamble analysis that cites to a portion of
`Senftner that explicitly discloses a display device displaying the original
`video stream?
`MR. BRIGGS: So I would like to turn to page 16 through 17 which
`does relate to the preamble and it talks about how images that target actor
`are replaced and substantial matching. Again, to complete the analysis of --
`just give me a second, Your Honor.
`JUDGE CLEMENTS: Sure, no hurry.
`MR. BRIGGS: I'm going to go back to slide 21, Your Honor. So
`slide 21 relates to our disclosure to page 27 of the petition where you do the
`selecting and also relates to Dr. Delp's declaration where he discusses why,
`if you're going to do the selecting, you know you're viewing the video so,
`again, the story of claim 1 as we told is that you view it when you do the
`selecting and the record evidence for that is at different portions of it. This
`is also cited at page 16 of our petition where we cite Exhibit 1006 at 241 to
`51 when explaining how you do the target replacement, and again at page 17
`of our petition in the footnote, Exhibit 1006 at 241 to 46.
`So the story here we told relative to claim 1 is you've got a computer,
`the user sitting at the computer, they're going to make a selection. The
`person of ordinary skill in the art reading that knows that you're going to be
`seeing the video. That the reference doesn't say you see the video explicitly
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`does not mean it's not disclosed. The person of ordinary skill in the art reads
`the reference and knows it's disclosed.
`JUDGE CLEMENTS: So here's my trouble. In the petition you didn't
`say anything about inherency but it sounds more of a little bit like an
`inherency argument.
`MR. BRIGGS: It's not an inherency argument, Your Honor. We
`believe a person of ordinary skill in the art reading the reference knows that
`the person or people are viewing videos.
`JUDGE CLEMENTS: Okay. Thank you.
`MR. BRIGGS. You're welcome.
`JUDGE CLEMENTS: The other question I had related to the first
`point about the system apparatus and you cited a Federal Circuit case,
`actually a CCPA case In re Walter, and I haven't had a chance to read that
`case in detail yet, but my question is was there anything specific about the
`use of the term system or apparatus in that specification that made the
`decision idiosyncratic to that patent at issue in that case, and likewise is
`there anything, you know, does the spec in the 591 patent use the word
`apparatus in a kind of idiosyncratic way that would make In re Walter not
`apply?
`MR. BRIGGS: It is okay if I deal with your second question first,
`Your Honor?
`JUDGE CLEMENTS: Yes, sure. Any order.
`MR. BRIGGS: The 591 specification makes no specific claims that
`apparatuses are special. They have a system diagram as figure 1. They say
`apparatus can be used but there's nothing special about the word apparatus in
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`the specification of the 591 patent. In Walter it was seismic -- they were
`doing seismic testing and this is 1968 and computers were new back then,
`and so they went to try and patent their algorithm that related to how you do
`seismic testing and they had method claims that were rejected under 101 and
`they had apparatus claims that were rejected on other grounds and in doing
`that decision they said there's nothing in the body of your claim that limits
`this device in the physical sense the way you want us to read it and we can't
`do that here, and it doesn't matter in view of the prior art then. Does that
`answer your question?
`JUDGE CLEMENTS: Yes, I think it does. Thank you.
`MR. BRIGGS: Okay.
`JUDGE CLEMENTS: And then so my final question relates to the
`point about spatial matching and Patent Owner had argued in their Patent
`Owner response, not the supplemental Patent Owner response but the
`original corrected Patent Owner response, that Sitrick wouldn't have
`rendered this limitation obvious because a person of ordinary skill in the art
`wouldn't have understood that the various transforms disclosed in Sitrick
`result in two areas that would have equal length and width, and that was, I’m
`reading from page 26 of the corrected Patent Owner response, and they cited
`I think Dr. Prieto's testimony at the end of the paragraph there. It spans over
`to page 27 of the Patent Owner response. I know you addressed it in your
`reply and said that it was unsupported by evidence but I just want to give
`you a chance to address that here at the hearing. I'd like to hear it in your
`own words.
`MR. BRIGGS: What's the question, Your Honor? I'm not quite sure.
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`JUDGE CLEMENTS: So why would a person of ordinary skill in the
`art have understood what -- those transforms that Sitrick discloses -- why
`would a person of ordinary skill in the art have understood those to result in
`equal lengths and widths?
`MR. BRIGGS: A couple of things on that, Your Honor. The purpose
`of Sitrick, again as we told in the story of our claims is to how to target
`replacement exactly to replace the original actor and I'm just going to quote
`paragraph 9 of Sitrick right now.
`"There is a resulting need for an entertainment system that facilitates
`realistically integrating a user's image into a video or audio visual program."
`If you have that goal in mind and if you want to realistically replace,
`and the first image has one side and you can replace that first image with a
`second image, you want it to be the same size otherwise it doesn't look
`realistic. So that's what we're saying.
`
`JUDGE CLEMENTS: Okay. Thank you. I have no further
`questions.
`JUDGE PARVIS: I have one other question relating to the Vibrant
`Media case.
`MR. BRIGGS: Yes.
`JUDGE PARVIS: Is there anything in the prosecution history that
`Petitioner is pointing to to say that something in the prosecution history
`should assist us in reading claim 1 as a method or an apparatus or we can
`interpret it either way?
`MR. BRIGGS: So you're asking about the prosecution history --
`JUDGE PARVIS: Yes.
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`MR. BRIGGS: -- of the 591 patent?
`JUDGE PARVIS: Yes.
`MR. BRIGGS: There's not. It went through several rounds and the
`last round it went in and was allowed, so we don't really know from the
`examination what the Patent Examiner was thinking or why certain claims
`had certain meanings because it was just a brand new claim set, but that was
`allowed after the final decision.
`JUDGE PARVIS: But Petitioner's position is that the prosecution
`history is not helpful to us (indiscernible)?
`MR. BRIGGS: That's our position.
`JUDGE PARVIS: Okay. Thank you.
`MR. BRIGGS: Thank you.
`JUDGE PARVIS: No further questions?
`JUDGE MCMILLIN: No, Thank you.
`MR. CAREY: May I proceed, Your Honor?
`JUDGE PARVIS: Yes.
`MR. CAREY: Good afternoon everyone. I'm John Carey on behalf
`of the Patent Owner. I'm mainly going to be addressing the legal authorities
`that we believe are applicable to this proceeding and my colleague, Mr.
`Wilson, I'll turn it over to him and he'll be addressing for the most part the
`prior art references that are at issue in the proceedings.
`But before I begin and just because it's fresh in everyone's mind I
`wanted to follow up on Judge Clements' question to Petitioner about the
`claim limitation in claim 1 for the display device displaying the original
`video data stream. It's first of all important to just realize this was a claim
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`limitation that's not in claim 11, it's in claim 1 and of course it's incorporated
`in the claims that are dependent on claim 1 but this limitation is not present
`in claim 11 and so the original Institution decision in this case didn't analyze
`this limitation.
`This only has come up in the supplemental briefing and when we
`look, as Judge Clements did properly so, to the petition to see what is
`Petitioner saying about how this limitation is supposedly met, here's what we
`find on pages 19 and 20 of the corrected petition. There's a citation here to
`Senftner at column 2, lines 37 and 39 and Your Honors will notice when you
`read that citation it does not even say what's been quoted. That's totally off
`point and doesn't get them anywhere on this limitation.
`Then we transition to the next allegation which is that the
`personalized video is presented to the user by means of a display device.
`Okay. Well here we do have a display device and we've got it playing a
`personalized video but the limitation in question requires the display of the
`original video data stream. Claim1 of the 591 patent has three distinct video
`data streams, the original, the user input and the edited. The edited is the
`resulting edited one that includes the replacement image. That corresponds
`to this personalized video in Senftner which they're talking about in their
`petition at page 20.
`That's the personalized video. That's not the original video. The
`undisputed claim construction in this case -- all right, undisputed -- we have
`an undisputed claim construction for the original video data stream. In fact,
`they have a slide on it, I think it's slide 96. But I can tell you what it is. It's
`original video data stream is stipulated by the parties to have the following
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`claim construction: a sequence of images that is to be modified. That is to
`be modified. So that's what you start with and that's what you want to
`change. Once you change it, that's your personalized video in the words of
`Senftner or in the words of the 591, that's your edited stream. All right.
`The only disclosure in Senftner, the only display device that exists in
`Senftner that is taught in Senftner is the display device for the personalized
`video that's already been edited. There is no disclosure of a display device
`with that original stream, and there's a reason for that. Mr. Wilson, if he has
`time will get into it more because Senftner is a very different system. It's a
`back end system for post-processing mainly movies. The inventor is a
`Hollywood person. But in the event, we pointed this out to them. We said
`in our supplemental reply which was the first time this limitation was active
`in this proceeding. We said well the personalized video of Senftner, that's
`not the original stream and, in effect, conceding that what they put in the
`corrected petition does not disclose this limitation, they come in on
`supplemental Petitioner reply where Dr. Delp now has a new theory for how
`this limitation is allegedly met and what he says is in his supplemental reply
`very recently submitted, he says oh, well, if Senftner displayed a
`personalized video that didn't include any replacement images, for example,
`Senftner didn't replace anything, then the output would be the original. That
`is what he shifted to once we pointed out that the personalized video
`disclosure of Senftner does not correspond to the original video data stream.
`But unfortunately, for Dr. Delp at least, that doesn't fly because the
`original video data stream is, again, we've stipulated claim construction is
`the sequence of images that is to be modified. If you don't modify it with
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`the replacement, then it's not an original video data stream and so under Dr.
`Delp's last gasp theory that if we display a video that hasn't been changed, it
`sa
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