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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` - - -
`STINGRAY DIGITAL GROUP, INC., )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. ) Case IPR2017-01192
` )
`MUSIC CHOICE, ) Patent 8,769,602
` )
` Patent Owner. )
` - - -
` TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 2018
` - - -
` The deposition of MICHAEL SHAMOS, Ph.D., called as
`a witness by the Patent Owner, pursuant to notice and
`the Rules of Civil Procedure pertaining to the taking
`of depositions, taken before me, the undersigned,
`Rebecca L. Schnur, Notary Public in and for the
`Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, at Wyndham Pittsburgh
`University Center, 100 Lytton Avenue, Pittsburgh,
`Pennsylvania 15213, commencing at 9:07 a.m., the day
`and date above set forth.
` - - -
`
`Stingray v. Music Choice
`IPR2017-01192
`Exhibit 2005
`
`
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` - - -
`STINGRAY DIGITAL GROUP, INC., )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. ) Case IPR2017-01192
` )
`MUSIC CHOICE, ) Patent 8,769,602
` )
` Patent Owner. )
` - - -
` TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 2018
` - - -
` The deposition of MICHAEL SHAMOS, Ph.D., called as
`a witness by the Patent Owner, pursuant to notice and
`the Rules of Civil Procedure pertaining to the taking
`of depositions, taken before me, the undersigned,
`Rebecca L. Schnur, Notary Public in and for the
`Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, at Wyndham Pittsburgh
`University Center, 100 Lytton Avenue, Pittsburgh,
`Pennsylvania 15213, commencing at 9:07 a.m., the day
`and date above set forth.
` - - -
`
`Stingray v. Music Choice
`IPR2017-01192
`Exhibit 2005
`
`
`
`Page 2
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`APPEARANCES:
` On behalf of the Petitioner:
` Vimal M. Kapadia, Esquire
` Greenberg Traurig, LLP
` MetLife Building
` 200 Park Avenue
` New York, NY 10166
` 212.801.2241
` kapadiav@gtlaw.com
` On behalf of the Patent Owner:
` Robert W. Ashbrook, Jr., Esquire
` Dechert, LLP
` Cira Centre, 2929 Arch Street
` Philadelphia, PA 19104-2808
` 215.994.2215
` robert.ashbrook@dechert.com
`
` - - -
` I-N-D-E-X
`EXAMINATION BY: PAGE:
`Mr. Ashbrook 3
`Mr. Kapadia 119
` - - -
` EXHIBIT INDEX
`DEPOSITION EXHIBIT MARKED
`Exhibit 2002 Figure 1 from Mackintosh 67
` Declaration (As Annotated)
`Exhibit 2003 Figure 5 from the Mackintosh 67
` Declaration (As Annotated)
`
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`Stingray v. Music Choice
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`
` (Witness sworn.)
` MICHAEL SHAMOS, Ph.D.,
`called as a witness by the Patent Owner, having been
`first duly sworn, as hereinafter certified, was deposed
`and testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. ASHBROOK:
` Q Professor Shamos, thank you for coming in
`today. My name is Robert Ashbrook. I'm with the firm
`Dechert, LLP. We're representing Music Choice in this
`IPR today.
` MR. ASHBROOK: Vimal, do you want to identify
` yourself
` MR. KAPADIA: My name is Vimal Kapadia. I'm
` with Greenberg Traurig, and I represent the
` Petitioner Stingray Digital Group.
` MR. ASHBROOK: I don't intend to stop the
` deposition but, I understand that Mr. Kapadia has
` not entered an appearance here. And so we'll
` register at this time an objection to anything
` that Mr. Kapadia adds here or any statements he
` makes or objections he makes, for that reason.
`BY MR. ASHBROOK:
` Q Professor Shamos, you were telling me before
`
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`we went on the record about the computer sitting in
`front of you.
` A Yes. In front of me I have my own personal
`PC. I have many, many, many things on it, but with
`respect to this case, I have two folders, one each for
`the patent that's the subject of today's deposition and
`one for the patent that's the subject of tomorrow's,
`and in those folders, I have only the public filings
`that were made with the Patent Trial and Appeal Board
`in these cases. And so if you ask me a question about
`a document, I'll be able to call it up on the screen
`and they're computer searchable.
` I've also put those folders on a flash drive,
`and that either can be entered as an exhibit or I can
`just give it to you.
` Q Are the folders on the flash drive identical
`to the ones you refer to on the computer --
` A Yes.
` Q -- Professor Shamos?
` A Yes, they are.
` Q And are you representing here that you
`will -- well, let's note for the record that, as the
`computer is set up here, I can't see what you're
`looking at.
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` A I can show you at any -- anytime you ask I
`can turn the screen so you can see it.
` Q And will you represent that you will only
`look at the publicly filed materials that were filed in
`this IPR, which is IPR2017-01192 --
` A Yes --
` Q -- today?
` A -- unless you ask me to look at something
`else.
` Q Okay. Fair enough.
` Professor Shamos, you have a registration
`number with the patent office. Isn't that right?
` A 30,424.
` Q And you're not a patent agent. You're a
`patent attorney. Is that right?
` A That's right.
` Q 30,000, that's -- when did you get admitted
`to the patent bar?
` A 1981.
` Q Are you familiar with the -- well, let me
`ask: What have you done to prepare for your deposition
`today?
` A I reviewed the filed materials in the IPRs.
`I met yesterday with Mr. Kapadia. That's the extent of
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`it.
` Q So notwithstanding the fact that you may have
`access to the electronic version of your declaration,
`I'm going to make available to you here -- it's
`previously been marked as Exhibit 1003 in this IPR, and
`I'm also going to make available to you a paper copy of
`the Mackintosh patent -- or publication, I guess, is a
`more accurate term that's been previously marked as
`Exhibit 1004 in this IPR.
` Do you see Exhibit 1003?
` A Yes.
` Q And do you agree that's your declaration in
`this IPR?
` A Yes.
` Q And do you see Exhibit 1004?
` A Yes.
` Q And do you agree that's the Mackintosh
`publication that you've relied upon in your opinions?
` A Yes, I do.
` Q While we're at it, I'm going to give you a
`paper copy of what's been previously marked as
`Exhibit 1005 in this IPR.
` Do you agree that that's the Hallier
`reference that you referred to in forming your
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`opinions?
` A Yes.
` Q And last, but not least, I'm going to provide
`you a paper copy of Exhibit 1001. That's U.S. Patent
`Number 8,769,602 that's the subject of this IPR. Is
`that right?
` A Yes.
` Q In Mackintosh, it's the program data, not the
`supplemental materials that gets broadcast to the user.
`Is that correct?
` A Well, I guess we have to figure out what
`"broadcast" means there.
` So the supplemental materials are typically
`not included in a stream that's received from a
`broadcast Internet service provider, but instead a
`reference is provided to those materials which are then
`retrieved by the user terminal.
` Q What's the reference called in Mackintosh?
` A I'm sorry? "What's the reference called?"
` Q Yes.
` A Oh, I see what you mean.
` Let's see. It's easier if I look to my claim
`chart because that's going to have the language that's
`used in -- that's used in Mackintosh.
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` Well, one of the terms Mackintosh uses is
`"program data."
` Q Any other terms that Mackintosh uses?
` A Any term Mackintosh uses for what?
` Q Let me ask a different question.
` Turn with me, if you will, to figure 1 of
`Mackintosh.
` Figure 1 shows a program provider 104. Do
`you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q And there's an arrow from the program
`provider 104 that goes to broadcast provider 108. Do
`you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q In Mackintosh, what information -- what does
`that arrow symbolize?
` A Well, the broadcaster itself does not create
`the program to be broadcast. It obtains it from the
`program provider, and so at least the program goes over
`the line between 104 and 108.
` Q Anything else besides the program that goes
`over the line from 104 to 108?
` A Yes, I think so.
` So let's look at -- I'm looking at Mackintosh
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`Stingray v. Music Choice
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`now. Okay. So I'm referring to page 6 of Mackintosh,
`beginning at line 16, the example embodiment
`illustrated in figure 1 --
` Q Can I just interrupt you for a minute?
` A Sure.
` Q In the copy of Mackintosh that we have here
`today that's marked as Exhibit 1004, there are two sets
`of page numbers. One is at the top of each page, and
`one is at the bottom of each page.
` A Right. My understanding is that the one at
`the top is the one that's original to Mackintosh. The
`one that's at the bottom has something to do with the
`way that it was provided to the Patent Trial and Appeal
`Board.
` I'm using the top number.
` Q Will you be using the top number throughout
`the day today?
` A Yes, because it's the number in the original
`reference.
` Q I'm sorry if I interrupted you.
` A It's no problem. I was only reading.
` So I'm beginning to read at the upper number
`page 6, line 16. "The example embodiment illustrated
`in figure 1 includes a program provider 104 for
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`providing broadcast materials to a user equipment 112."
` Actually, let me keep reading that because it
`goes on to something more salient.
` "Program provider 104 can provide, for
`example, broadcast materials such as a radio program, a
`video program, or other broadcast materials on another
`program medium. For example, in one embodiment,
`program provider 104 can be a radio station
`broadcasting its radio program to a number of
`listeners.
` "Program provider 104 can provide its
`broadcast materials directly to a user's user equipment
`112 or alternatively, via a broadcast provider 108.
`Broadcast provider 108 may be included to allow the
`broadcast material to be forwarded to the user via an
`alternative medium. For example, in one embodiment, an
`example of a broadcast provider 108 can be a service
`provider such as, for example, WWW.broadcast.com that
`provides radio broadcast materials to user equipment
`112 via the Internet."
` So I think what's going on here is that
`Mackintosh is disclosing that whatever it could send to
`user terminal -- user equipment 112 it could also send
`to the broadcast provider 108.
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` Q I was actually getting at something a little
`bit different and that was: What does Mackintosh call
`the stuff that it sends along the arrow from 104 to 108
`in figure 1?
` A Okay. I think the stuff is described at the
`top of page 7.
` "In the embodiment illustrated in figure 1,
`program provider 104 provides information pertaining to
`the broadcast materials to a data server 116. For
`example, program provider 104 can provide to data
`server 116 an identification of the broadcast materials
`that are being broadcast or otherwise provided to user
`equipment 112."
` Q Now, you mentioned before, program data.
` A Yes.
` Q And now you've mentioned broadcast materials
`and information pertaining to the broadcast materials?
` A Yeah. Well, it's not me. It's Mackintosh.
` Q Okay. Anything else in the realm of things
`that are sent from 104 to 108 in figure 1 of
`Mackintosh?
` A Okay. So 104 does a lot of things, so I'm
`looking for 108.
` At page 9, there's material about figure 3,
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`which is an alternative, described as an alternative
`embodiment to figure 1. And it says, "Instead in this
`embodiment, data pertaining to the broadcast materials
`is provided along with the broadcast materials to the
`user equipment 112. This can be done either directly,
`or via an interim provider such as, for example,
`broadcast Internet service provider 108."
` So program data relating to the broadcast
`material is one of the things, and "data pertaining to
`the broadcast materials" is another phrase that
`Mackintosh uses.
` Q Anything else in figures 1 and 3 that go from
`program provider 104 to broadcast provider 108?
` A Well, at the bottom of page 9, "In this step,
`the data relating to the broadcast material (i.e., the
`program data) is included in the signal provided to
`user equipment 112. In one embodiment, the program
`data and broadcast material are multiplexed onto a
`single data link and provided to user equipment 112
`either via a broadcast provider 108, or directly to
`user equipment 112."
` Q Tell me if I have this right. We've got the
`broadcast materials that go, and then we have data that
`relate to the broadcast material which is also called
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`Page 13
`program data, and those things go from 104 to 108 in
`figure 1 and indirectly in figure 3?
` MR. KAPADIA: Objection. Form.
` A I think that's right. I'm not finding
`other -- other phraseology that's used in Mackintosh.
` MR. ASHBROOK: Excuse me. Vimal, will you
` give me a standing objection as I stated in the
` beginning to the no entry of appearance, just so I
` don't have to repeat that?
` MR. KAPADIA: Okay. Mandatory -- updated
` mandatory disclosures will be filed momentarily.
` So I assume you'll be withdrawing your objections
` from that point forward, your standing objection?
` MR. ASHBROOK: Well, once they're filed,
` yeah, but up until then --
` MR. KAPADIA: Understood.
`BY MR. ASHBROOK:
` Q Okay. In figure 1, there's no -- none of the
`supplemental materials are sent from program
`provider 104 to broadcast provider 108. Is that
`correct?
` A Well, so figure 1 -- of course, the arrows
`are not labeled, so it doesn't describe in the figure
`what's being sent from where to where.
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` I think that there is -- I'm looking at the
`material provided to program provider 104, and I want
`to see if Mackintosh discloses that the same thing
`could be provider to broadcast provider 108.
` Q Okay.
` A I think so. 116.
` So at the top of page 7, "In the embodiment
`illustrated in figure 1, program provider 104 provides
`information pertaining to the broadcast materials to a
`data server 116. For example, program provider 104 can
`provide to data server 116 an identification of the
`broadcast materials that are being broadcast or
`otherwise provided to user equipment 112."
` I think the next sentence is important.
`"This data can be sent in real time as the broadcast
`materials are being broadcast or otherwise sent to user
`equipment 112." And then, the next sentence,
`"Alternatively, the data can be sent in advance of the
`delivery of the broadcast materials. If sent in
`advance, the data preferably also includes a schedule
`for the" program materials -- sorry -- "programming
`materials such that supplemental information associated
`with the broadcast materials can be coordinated with
`the broadcast materials as discussed below."
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`Page 15
` So the phrase in the first paragraph that the
`program -- the identification of the broadcast
`materials can be otherwise provided to user
`equipment 112.
` Well, one path of providing it to user 112 is
`through the interim broadcast provider 108. So it
`could do it.
` Q Does Mackintosh disclose to a person of
`ordinary skill in the art that supplemental materials
`are sent from program provider 104 to broadcast
`provider 108?
` A I don't think so.
` If you look at page 7, line 10, "In
`operation, data server 116 utilizes the data received
`from program provider 104 to retrieve supplemental
`materials related to the broadcast materials and to
`provide those supplemental materials to user
`equipment 112 in coordination with the broadcast
`materials."
` So the teaching there is that 116 is going
`off somewhere and getting the supplemental materials,
`possibly from its own database, and that's how they get
`to user terminal 112.
` Q In fact, in figure 1, the line between data
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`server 116 and user 112 has a double-headed arrow on
`it. Right?
` A Yes.
` Q And that indicates that the supplemental
`materials would go from data server 116 to user 112
`without going through the program provider and the
`broadcast provider?
` A Well, I think what it shows is that anything
`that's coming from data server 116 to the user is not
`going through an intermediary. It's coming direct from
`data server 116. But if program provider 104 sends
`supplemental materials to 108, then they could get to
`the user that way.
` Q How does -- does the program provider 104
`have the supplemental materials in Mackintosh? Is that
`disclosed?
` A I don't think so. But it could.
` Q Well, do you need to look to make sure?
` A Let's make sure.
` Q Okay.
` A I'm going to look for supplemental materials.
`Mackintosh contains many references to supplemental
`materials.
` So on page 5, at line 32, there's a
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`description. "Figure 10 is a diagram illustrating an
`example implementation of an architecture for providing
`supplemental materials with broadcast material."
` And so now I'm going to go look for the
`description of figure 10.
` Yeah, so at page 29, beginning at line 23,
`there is a discussion of figure 10. And supplemental
`materials come with the broadcast material there. But
`that's not figure 1.
` Q Pardon me, but where are you reading from?
` A I was reading, first, from -- I think it was
`the bottom of page 5, describing what figure 10 says,
`which is providing supplemental materials along with
`the broadcast material, and then, at page 29, beginning
`at line 23, about the "buy now" button. And so along
`with the broadcast material you're getting information
`about things that you can buy, and you can buy them by
`clicking the "buy now" button. And that's coming along
`with the broadcast material.
` Q The information about things you can buy,
`isn't that part of the broadcast material, the
`advertisements that might be part of the broadcast
`material?
` A Oh, well, so it can be either way. So for
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`example, if I have a video and integrated within the
`video is a commercial, then that would be part of the
`broadcast material.
` If I'm playing a song and there's an
`opportunity to buy the album, then a picture of the
`album might come along with the song. That's not part
`of the broadcast material. That's the supplemental
`material.
` Q Where does Mackintosh describe the picture of
`the album coming along with the song in -- as opposed
`to, for example, being transmitted from the data server
`to the user along the line connecting them?
` MR. KAPADIA: Objection to form.
` A Yeah, the embodiment that I'm talking about
`is not with reference to figures 1 or 3. It's with
`reference to figure 10, and there's no data server 116
`there.
` Q Okay. Are you sure that the supplemental
`material you're talking about is not sent from support
`server 511 to player 510?
` A It's certainly conceivable you could do that
`because there's disclosure in Mackintosh that one of
`the things that you could send along with the program
`is a link, which when clicked on, will retrieve
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`
`information from a different server.
` But I'm going by the disclosure on page 5
`that talks about -- I'm sorry. Where is it?
` It's in the discussion -- yes. Figure 10.
` Q If it were the case that Mackintosh discloses
`to a person of ordinary skill in the art that
`supplemental material can accompany the broadcast
`material, why is it necessary to combine Mackintosh and
`Hallier with respect to claiming?
` A Just in case it doesn't. In case it's deemed
`by the Board not to.
` I think the reason that I did it that way is
`that, while the word "multiplexing" is used in
`Mackintosh, Mackintosh only discusses multiplexing
`program data with the broadcast material. It doesn't
`use the word "multiplex" in connection with the
`supplemental material, and so that's why Hallier is
`brought in.
` Q Would it be necessary to multiplex
`supplemental material with the broadcast material in
`order to send them together to the user?
` A You mean to send them together from the same
`source? Yes.
` Let me clarify that. I mean, it depends on
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`the nature of the material. So if they're to be
`provided with the broadcast material, that is, so you
`can see them while you're listening to something or
`while you're watching a program, there are only two
`ways to do it. You send the stuff that you want to
`display, the supplemental material, first and then you
`play the broadcast material, in which case they
`wouldn't have to be multiplexed. They would be sent
`separately.
` That has problems, of course, because it
`means that during the broadcast you can't change
`anything because it's already been sent in advance. Or
`I suppose you could send it at the end, which means you
`don't get it while the broadcast material is playing.
`And so the only way that you can actually coordinate
`the broadcast material with the supplemental materials,
`if they're coming from the same source, would be to
`multiplex them.
` Q That has to do with digital as opposed to an
`analog signal?
` A Well, that's strange because all -- all
`signals are ultimately analog. They may end up, after
`demodulation, representing digital data, but the
`signals themselves are analog.
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` Q After demodulation, the signal there has to
`represent digital data. Is that correct?
` A When you say "the signal," the signal
`representing what, though?
` If it's representing data, then, yes, it's
`going to be digital, ultimately, after demodulation.
`If it is -- in the old days, before we had digital TV,
`it wasn't a digital signal that was demodulated.
` Q If a supplemental material is sent with the
`program material multiplexed, then after demodulation
`it has to be digital. Isn't that right?
` A Well, if it's originally -- if it's
`originally digital, then the only way to recover it is
`to make it digital again.
` It might not be digital. For example, if I
`pointed -- let's say we have nondigital TV. I point a
`TV camera at a photograph. That image is not going to
`be a digital image.
` On the other hand, if what I try to send is a
`JPEG, then that's digital, and in order to recover it,
`it has to be made digital again.
` Q Can I multiplex supplemental material with,
`as you described it, an image that's not digital?
` A Sure.
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` Q How's that done?
` A It's no problem. There are different ways of
`multiplexing. One way is through time division. I
`have a protocol in which I say, for the first -- for
`the next hundred microseconds you're going to get this
`signal and the following hundred microseconds you're
`going to get that signal, and the first signal is
`analog and the second signal is digital. They can be
`multiplexed.
` Q Turn with me, if you will, to claim 5 of the
`'602 patent.
` Let me back up.
` A I'm there. I'm just putting it on my screen
`because I can make it much bigger than the little
`writing on this paper document.
` Q Is the '602 patent dealing with digital data
`or analog data?
` A Well, when you say "dealing with" --
`typically, the program data is going to be digital
`data.
` Q How about the supplemental information, is
`that digital or analog in the '602?
` A So I think -- I'd have to look at the
`mechanism of -- the mechanism of sending in figure 1,
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`so the arrow, for example, that goes between the server
`and user terminal -- I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You're
`referring to '602 patent. I thought you were referring
`to Mackintosh.
` Well, let's take a look. So I'm looking for
`references in '602 to "digital."
` The word "analog" does not appear in the
`specification.
` So at column 4, line 27, "Transmission system
`170 transmits the encoded sound recordings to
`audio/video receivers 180, which are coupled to an
`audio/video device 182 that reproduces the sound
`recordings for the subscribers. Receivers 180 may be
`conventional digital cable or satellite set-top boxes."
` Then there's a discussion in the succeeding
`paragraph on -- "Video subsystem 104, in one
`embodiment, is responsible for, among other things,
`generating, in real time, data packets for each of the
`one or more channels." So data packets are digital
`there.
` Those are the only references to digital in
`'602. So it seems to be -- other than my proviso
`earlier, which is that everything is ultimately analog,
`the original data that is going to be modulated into an
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`audio signal and to an analog signal appears to
`originate digitally.
` Q Now let's go to claim 5 of the '602.
` A Okay.
` Q At that end of that claim, at column 16,
`lines 40 and 41, it says, "...on predefined
`configuration data and information included in the
`trigger message."
` Do you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q What does "predefined" mean in that phrase?
` A It's a word I never used to use when I was
`drafting a claim.
` So "pre," of course, is a temporal prefix,
`meaning prior in time. And so anytime the word
`"predefined" is used, it has to be with reference to an
`event. And "pre" means something that happened before
`that event.
` And so if we read claim 5, the only event
`there is "generate a video image specification." So it
`says, "The method of claim 4, wherein the video
`subsystem is configured to generate a video image
`specification based, at least in part, on predefined
`configuration data and information included in the
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`trigger message."
` So since the only event is generate, the
`configuration data must have been defined prior to the
`generation. Basically, it means it's not being
`generated on the fly. It's being looked up somewhere.
` Q Where is it being looked up in the '602
`patent and, particularly, claim 5?
` A Okay. Fine. So let's look at where, in the
`'602 patent, there's discussion of generating the video
`image specification. I'll look for "generate."
` Okay. So at column 1, line 52, "Upon
`receiving a trigger from the audio subsystem, the video
`subsystem generates a video image specification based,
`at least in part, on the select sound recording."
` So there's information about the selected
`sound recording. And, of course, the selected sound
`recording existed in advance. And the video system
`uses that information to generate the video image
`specification.
` Then there's discussion in column 2, line 28
`or 29. "In one particular aspect, the video subsystem
`generates an HTML document that contains the video
`image specification and provides the HTML document to
`the video generator."
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` So it's getting information about the audio
`program. It's using that to create a video image
`specification.
` Then, at column 2, line 34, "In another
`aspect, the video images are pregenerated. The
`pregenerated video images may be stored at the
`audio/video system or at the transmission system."
` So if they're pregenerated, then the video
`image specification can be generated from them.
` Then, at column 10, line 27, "Additionally,
`instead of transmission system 170 receiving data
`packet 131 generated by video subsystem 104, as
`described above with respect to figure 1, video image
`generator 702 receives a data packet 732 generated by
`video subsystem 104. Data packet 732 comprises a video
`image specification. Further, video subsystem 104 may
`also generate a data packet 731 and transmits data
`packet 731 to transmission subsystem 190. Data packet
`731 comprises purchase information and/or sound
`recording information corresponding to the sound
`recording most recently selected by audio subsystem
`102."
` So there's loads of disclosure about the
`generation of this video image specification.
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` Q Do you remember what my question was?
` A Yes. I think it was, where does it get the
`information that's preconfigured. Is that right?
` Q Correct.
` A Yeah. So I'm reading, from the disclosure,
`various sources of this information that the video
`image generator is going to use.
` Q In claim 5, it talks about -- well, the claim
`ends with, "included in the trigger message."
` Do you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q Does that phrase "included in the trigger
`message" modify "information" only, or does it modify
`both "predefined configuration data" and "information"?
` A I don't think it modifies "predefined
`configuration data." The reason is that you then would
`not have use the word "predefined."
` If the configuration data came in the trigger
`message, then clearly it's coming before the generation
`is occurring, and therefore the word "predefined" would
`be surplus and unnecessary.
` Furthermore, to read it as modifying
`"configuration data," that would require the predefined
`configuration data to be in the trigger message, and I
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`don't think there's disclosure of that, that that is
`required.
` Q How would a person of ordinary skill in the
`art construe "predefined configuration data"?
` A Configuration data that had been defined
`prior to the generation step.
` Q How would a -- if I use the term POSITA,
`P-O-S-I-T-A, will you understand that that means a
`person of ordinary skill in the art?
` A Yes. I pronounce it differently, but I am
`familiar with the abbreviation.
` Q How would a POSITA construe "configuration
`data" as it's used
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