UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`------------------------------------------- x
`
`MICROSOFT CORPORATION,
`
` Petitioner,
`
` -versus-
`
`BRADIUM TECHNOLOGIES LLC,
`
` Patent Owner.
`
`------------------------------------------ x
`Case IPR2016-00448
`Patent 7,908,343 B2
`
`Case IPR2016-00449
`Patent 8,924,506 B2
`
` One Broadway
` New York, New York
`
` January 18, 2017
` 9:24 a.m.
`
` DEPOSITION OF ISAAC LEVANON, taken
`pursuant to Notice, held at the offices of
`Andrews Kurth Kenyon, LLP, before Fran Insley,
`a Notary Public of the States of New York and
`New Jersey.
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`1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. We
`2 are going on the record at 9:24 a.m. on
`3 Wednesday, January 18, 2017. Please note
`4 that recording will continue with any
`5 objection to going off the record.
`6 My name is Bob Jorissen your
`7 certified legal videographer associated
`8 with Veritext. This deposition is being
`9 held at Andrews Kurth, LLP located at
`10 Battery Park, One Broadway, New York, New
`11 York.
`12 The caption of this case is
`13 Microsoft Corporation versus Bradium
`14 Technologies LLC in the United States
`15 Patent and Trademark Office before the
`16 Patent Trial and Appeal Board, case
`17 numbers IPR2016-00448 and 00449. The name
`18 of the witness is Isaac Levanon.
`19 At this time will counsel identify
`20 themselves and state whom they represent
`21 starting with the noticing attorney after
`22 which our court reporter, Fran Insley, of
`23 Veritext will swear in the witness and we
`24 can proceed. Counselor, if you would like
`25 to start.
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`Page 2
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`Page 4
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`1 A P P E A R A N C E S:
`2 PERKINS COIE
`3 Attorneys for Petitioner
`4 11988 El Camino Real, Suite 350
` San Diego, CA 92130-2594
`
`5
`
` BY: MATTHEW C. BERNSTEIN, ESQ.
`6 Phone: (858) 720-5721
` Fax: (858) 720-5821
`
`7 8 9
`
` ANDREWS KURTH KENYON, LLP
`10 Attorneys for Witness and
` claimant
`
`11
`
` One Broadway
`12 New York, New York 10004
`13 BY: CHRIS J. COULSON, ESQ.
` -and-
`14 MICHAEL N. ZACHARY, ESQ.
` Phone: (212) 908-6409
`15 chriscoulson@andrewskurthkenyon.com
`16
`17 ALSO PRESENT:
`18 MICHAEL SHANAHAN, ESQ., inhouse counsel
`19 for Bradium Technologies
`20 BOB JORISSEN, Videographer
`21 xxxxx
`22
`23
`24
`25
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`1 MR. BERNSTEIN: Matthew Bernstein
`2 from Perkins Coie, San Diego, representing
`3 petitioner Microsoft.
`4 MR. COULSON: I'm Chris Coulson of
`5 Andrews Kurth Kenyon representing Bradium
`6 Technologies, LLC and the witness. With
`7 me also from Andrews Kurth Kenyon is
`8 Michael Zachary. Also present is Mike
`9 Shanahan of Bradium Technologies LLC.
`10 I S A A C L E V A N O N,
`11 having been first duly sworn by the
`12 Notary Public, was examined and
`13 testified as follows:
`14 EXAMINATION BY MR. BERNSTEIN:
`15 Q. Mr. Levanon, good morning. Could
`16 you please state your full name for the record?
`17 A. Isaac Levanon.
`18 Q. Where do you currently reside?
`19 A. In Israel.
`20 Q. What is your address in Israel?
`21 A. 28 Levi Eshkol, Raanana.
`22 Q. Can you spell Levi Eshkol for the
`23 court reporter, please?
`24 A. L-E-V, as in Victor, I, space
`25 E-S-H-K-O-L.
`
`1 --------------- I N D E X -----------------
`2 WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
`3 ROBERT SACCO MR. BERNSTEIN 5
`4 MR. COULSON 69
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`5 6
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`-------------E X H I B I T S----------------
`7 DEPOSITION DESCRIPTION PAGE
`8 Exhibit 1015 LinkedIn Profile 48
`9
`10 (Exhibits to be produced.)
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
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`1 Q. Are you an Israeli citizen or US
`2 citizen or dual citizen?
`3 A. Dual.
`4 Q. Have you ever lived in the United
`5 States?
`6 A. I have.
`7 Q. Can you provide the approximate
`8 dates when you lived in the United States?
`9 A. From around 1979 to 1986 -- '96,
`10 '97.
`11 Q. Anything else? Any other times?
`12 A. I don't understand your question.
`13 Q. Were there any other periods of time
`14 that you lived in the United States other than
`15 coming over for a vacation or a business
`16 meeting?
`17 A. Not that I recall.
`18 Q. Are you represented by counsel
`19 today, Mr. Levanon?
`20 A. I believe so.
`21 Q. Who is representing you in this
`22 deposition?
`23 A. Chris Coulson.
`24 Q. Chris Coulson from Andrews Kurth?
`25 A. Correct.
`
`Page 6
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`1 Q. Did you meet with Mr. Coulson prior
`2 to your deposition today to prepare for your
`3 deposition?
`4 A. I did.
`5 Q. Did you review any documents in
`6 preparation for your deposition?
`7 A. I did.
`8 Q. Which, what documents did you
`9 review?
`10 MR. COULSON: Objection. Calls
`11 for -- the question calls for attorney
`12 work product. I instruct the witness not
`13 to answer.
`14 Q. Are you going to follow your
`15 counsel's instruction?
`16 A. I will.
`17 Q. Did any of the documents that you
`18 reviewed refresh your recollections as to any
`19 of the events or facts contained in your
`20 declarations?
`21 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`22 A. Can you dissect the question for me?
`23 Q. What do you mean by dissect?
`24 A. It was a fully loaded question. I
`25 don't understand it.
`
`1 Q. What do you mean by fully loaded?
`2 A. I don't understand the question.
`3 Q. So you don't understand the
`4 question. So if you don't understand the
`5 question, just let me know and I'll try to
`6 rephrase it. You said you reviewed documents
`7 yesterday.
`8 Did any of the documents you
`9 reviewed help you remember any of the events
`10 described in your declarations in these IPRs?
`11 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`12 A. I don't recall.
`13 Q. You don't recall if they refresh
`14 your recollection?
`15 A. Correct.
`16 Q. Who else -- other than Mr. Coulson,
`17 was there anyone else present at the deposition
`18 prep meetings?
`19 A. Attorney Michael Zachary.
`20 Q. Anyone else?
`21 A. Not that I can remember.
`22 Q. Was Mr. Shanahan who is sitting here
`23 today, was he present at any of the meetings?
`24 A. No, he was not.
`25 Q. Have you met Mr. Shanahan before?
`Page 8
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`1 A. I believe so.
`2 Q. When did you first meet
`3 Mr. Shanahan?
`4 MR. COULSON: Objection. Outside
`5 the scope. Relevance. FRE403.
`6 A. I don't recall.
`7 Q. You don't recall when you first met
`8 Mr. Shanahan?
`9 MR. COULSON: Same objections.
`10 A. That's correct.
`11 Q. Do you know if Mr. Shanahan is also
`12 involved with a company named General Patent
`13 Corp.?
`14 MR. COULSON: Objection. Relevance.
`15 Outside the scope of the declaration.
`16 A. I believe that's the case.
`17 Q. When is the first time you had
`18 communications with General Patent Corp.?
`19 MR. COULSON: Objection. Relevance.
`20 Outside the scope of the declaration.
`21 A. I cannot recall.
`22 Q. Do you have any business
`23 relationship with General Patent Corp.?
`24 MR. COULSON: Objection. Relevance.
`25 Scope.
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`1 A. Can you define for me business
`2 relationship?
`3 Q. Any business relationship at all.
`4 A. Define for me what is this? Any
`5 relationship, business relationship?
`6 Q. Have you ever signed any sort of
`7 agreement with General Patent Corp.?
`8 MR. COULSON: Objection. Relevance.
`9 A. Personally I did not.
`10 Q. Did you sign an agreement on behalf
`11 of a company in which you have an interest?
`12 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`13 A. I did.
`14 Q. What is the name of that company or
`15 companies?
`16 MR. COULSON: Same objection.
`17 A. Inovo, Limited.
`18 Q. Where is Inovo, Limited based?
`19 A. I didn't finish.
`20 Q. Sorry.
`21 A. Then followed by Man Trust and Man,
`22 LLC.
`23 Q. What was the nature of the
`24 relationship between Man Trust and -- did you
`25 say Man Trust and Man Holdings; is that what
`Page 10
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`1 you said?
`2 A. Correct.
`3 Q. What is the relationship between Man
`4 Trust and Man Holdings and General Patent
`5 Corp.?
`6 MR. COULSON: Objection to the
`7 relevance of this question. This appears
`8 to be -- this is far outside the scope of
`9 the declaration. Can you identify how
`10 this is relevant under the Garmin factors
`11 applicable and the--
`12 MR. BERNSTEIN: Your witness has an
`13 interest in the outcome of this proceeding
`14 and has an interest in the outcome of the
`15 litigation. Facts that you withheld from
`16 the PTAB in his declaration I have every
`17 right to go into his bias.
`18 MR. COULSON: I disagree with the
`19 statement there. You can certainly ask
`20 him what his interest is perhaps, but
`21 these entities do not seem necessary to do
`22 so and seem targeted towards generating
`23 litigation material for the parallel
`24 litigation.
`25 MR. BERNSTEIN: This completely
`Page 11
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`1 relates to your witness' bias and a
`2 failure to disclose his interest in the
`3 outcome of these proceedings to the Board.
`4 MR. COULSON: This is the trial.
`5 Bring out the facts.
`6 Q. So, Mr. Levanon, what is the
`7 relationship between Man Trust and Man Holdings
`8 and General Patent Corp.?
`9 MR. COULSON: I have the same
`10 objections.
`11 A. We both have ownership in Bradium.
`12 Q. The current patent owner of the
`13 patents that are being challenged in the IPRs;
`14 is that correct?
`15 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`16 A. Can you rephrase your question?
`17 Q. Do you know who currently owns the
`18 '506 and '343 patents that are being challenged
`19 in the IPRs?
`20 MR. COULSON: Objection. Scope.
`21 Form.
`22 A. I believe it's Bradium.
`23 Q. What interest -- ownership interest,
`24 if any, does Man Trust and Man Holdings have in
`25 the Bradium patents?
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`1 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`2 A. Man Holdings and Man Trust has
`3 partial ownership in Bradium.
`4 Q. What do you mean by partial; what
`5 percentage?
`6 A. 50 percent.
`7 Q. Who owns Man Trust?
`8 MR. COULSON: Objection to the
`9 scope.
`10 A. It's a family trust.
`11 Q. Whose family?
`12 A. My family trust.
`13 Q. Can you please identify the members
`14 of your family who are beneficiaries of that
`15 trust?
`16 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`17 Relevance.
`18 A. I don't recall the documentation to
`19 give you have the exact information.
`20 Q. What about Man Holdings; who are the
`21 members of the Man Holdings trust?
`22 A. Myself and possibly others.
`23 Q. Family members? When you say others
`24 or --
`25 A. Family members.
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`1 Q. Anyone who is a member of either of
`2 the Man Trust or Man Holdings Trust who is not
`3 a family member?
`4 A. Not at all.
`5 Q. Any reason why you didn't identify
`6 in your declarations in these proceedings that
`7 you -- a trust that you're a member of had an
`8 ownership stake in Bradium?
`9 MR. COULSON: Objection.
`10 Argumentative. The witness at this trial
`11 proceeding has answered your questions
`12 about the 50 percent ownership and you
`13 appear to be using documents Bradium
`14 disclosed in the litigation which provided
`15 Microsoft with this information.
`16 You've had a full and fair
`17 opportunity to inquire into this area and
`18 the information is now available to the
`19 board in this trial proceeding.
`20 MR. BERNSTEIN: I don't understand
`21 your testimony, but there is a question
`22 pending, Mr. Levanon.
`23 Q. Any reason why you didn't identify
`24 in your declaration in these proceedings that
`25 you're a member of a trust that has an
`
`1 one and then identify the document number,
`2 exhibit number?
`3 A. In tab number one, "Public Version
`4 (Non-Confidential) United States Patent and
`5 Trademark Office Before The Patent Trial and
`6 Appeal Board Microsoft Corporation, Petitioner
`7 v. Bradium Technologies LLC, Patent Owner.
`8 Case IPR2016-00448, Patent 7,908,343 B, like
`9 boy, 2. Declaration of Mr. Isaac Levanon." At
`10 the bottom it has the Exhibit 2072 and in
`11 parentheses, "(Redacted Version Of
`12 Exhibit 2004)," closed parentheses.
`13 Under Exhibit 2004, "Bradium
`14 Technologies, LLC - patent owner." Under it
`15 "Microsoft Corporation - Petitioner
`16 IPR2016-00448." And the page number one. You
`17 want me to do the same for all the rest?
`18 Q. Let me see if I can help you. If
`19 you can turn to tab number two?
`20 A. Yes.
`21 Q. On the bottom right-hand corner,
`22 what is the exhibit number?
`23 A. The exhibit number on tab number
`24 two?
`25 Q. The front page there, the page
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`1 ownership stake in Bradium?
`2 MR. COULSON: Objection. Relevance.
`3 A. I'm here to testify on my
`4 declaration.
`5 MR. BERNSTEIN: Objection.
`6 Nonresponsive.
`7 Q. Any reason why you didn't inform the
`8 Board that you had an interest in the outcome
`9 of these proceedings?
`10 MR. COULSON: Object to the
`11 statement by counsel. Argumentative.
`12 A. I draft this declaration to the best
`13 of my knowledge and that's what I submitted.
`14 Q. You said that you drafted the
`15 declarations. You're talking about Exhibits
`16 2004 to your declarations or Exhibit 2004 is
`17 that what you are talking about?
`18 A. No, I'm not. I'm talking about the
`19 declaration in front of me. I don't know,
`20 there is no -- excuse me, 2072.
`21 Q. 2072?
`22 A. Correct.
`23 Q. Why don't you, for the record, you
`24 have four copies of your declarations in front
`25 of you. Why don't you read the title of each
`Page 15
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`1 you're looking at.
`2 A. The one that says the same thing,
`3 Protective Order material?
`4 Q. Right.
`5 A. On top it has the same names I
`6 guess. It's Exhibit 2004.
`7 Q. Is that the patent number that is on
`8 the face of that declaration is that the '343
`9 patent?
`10 A. I looked at the exhibit number.
`11 What do you refer by patent number?
`12 Q. Can you read the case IPR number?
`13 A. Case IPR Patent 7,908-343 space B2.
`14 Q. So the -- the declaration you have
`15 in tab two on the '343 patent, is there any
`16 difference, other than the cover page, between
`17 the declaration contained behind tab four which
`18 should be on the '506 patent?
`19 We didn't see any differences other
`20 than maybe if you want to speed this up, but if
`21 not, he can look through them.
`22 MR. COULSON: Sure, counsel. I was
`23 going to say that to my understanding, the
`24 declarations of Mr. Levanon that were
`25 submitted in the 448IPR and the 506IPR,
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`1 which are Exhibit 2004 with the redacted
`2 version being Exhibit 2072, in both of
`3 them are -- don't have any material
`4 differences in the declaration. Is that
`5 sufficient?
`6 MR. BERNSTEIN: Yes, I guess I'm a
`7 little -- other than the cover page which
`8 identifies a different patent proceeding,
`9 are you aware of any differences at all
`10 between the two declarations?
`11 MR. COULSON: Yes, I believe it's
`12 essentially the same declaration under
`13 the -- that was submitted, that
`14 Mr. Levanon submitted in the two IPRs.
`15 Q. Okay, you can stop, Mr. Levanon. So
`16 a little bit earlier you mentioned that you
`17 drafted the declaration to the best of your
`18 knowledge and that's what you submitted.
`19 If you could take a look at -- I'm
`20 going to focus my questions most of today on
`21 the declaration you submitted in the '343 IPR
`22 and that's Exhibit 2004, tab number two in your
`23 binder. When did you start --
`24 A. Can you repeat the number again?
`25 Q. It's tab number two here,
`
`1 answered.
`2 A. Can you repeat the question?
`3 Q. Yes. You don't recall one way or
`4 the other whether it was you or whether it was
`5 your counsel who drafted the declaration; is
`6 that correct?
`7 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`8 Q. The first draft of the declaration?
`9 A. What do you mean one way or the
`10 other?
`11 Q. Did you draft the first version of
`12 that declaration?
`13 A. I don't recall.
`14 Q. When did you start working on that
`15 declaration?
`16 A. I don't recall the exact date.
`17 Q. Do you have an approximate date when
`18 you started working on the declaration?
`19 A. I don't. I'm not going to guess.
`20 Q. How much time did you spend working
`21 on that declaration?
`22 A. I cannot recall.
`23 Q. Was it more than an hour?
`24 A. I'm not going to estimate and I'm
`25 not going to guess.
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`1 Exhibit 2004.
`2 A. What page?
`3 Q. No page right now. Nothing yet.
`4 Did you --
`5 A. I'm sorry, I'm not clear.
`6 Q. I just wanted to put it in front of
`7 you because I'm going to ask you some questions
`8 about it.
`9 A. This one, the one that said 2004?
`10 Q. Yes.
`11 A. Okay, thank you.
`12 Q. You're the author of that
`13 declaration?
`14 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`15 A. I drafted it with the attorneys and
`16 review it and then sign on it.
`17 Q. Did you create the first draft of
`18 that document?
`19 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`20 Objection. Relevance.
`21 A. I do not recall.
`22 Q. You don't remember if you drafted
`23 the first version or if counsel drafted the
`24 first version?
`25 MR. COULSON: Objection. Asked and
`Page 19
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`1 Q. So it could have been less than an
`2 hour?
`3 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`4 Mischaracterizes.
`5 Q. It could have been less than an
`6 hour?
`7 A. I'm not going to guess.
`8 Q. Were you paid to draft or work on
`9 the draft of the declaration?
`10 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`11 Q. Hold on a second.
`12 MR. BERNSTEIN: What is the form
`13 objection?
`14 MR. COULSON: During this cross exam
`15 trial proceeding you brought out earlier
`16 testimony and discussed the 50 percent
`17 interest that essentially Mr. Levanon and
`18 his family has with respect to Bradium, so
`19 I was concerned that your question was
`20 vague as to whether -- as to the term
`21 payment, whether you were asking him if he
`22 was paid by the hour or referring to his
`23 earlier interest and I didn't want the
`24 witness -- I wanted to make sure the
`25 testimony was clear on the record, so I
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`1 made a form objection.
`2 MR. BERNSTEIN: Thank you for
`3 clarifying that.
`4 MR. COULSON: Certainly.
`5 Q. So, Mr. Levanon, excluding any
`6 interest that you and your family might have in
`7 the outcome of this proceeding -- these
`8 proceedings, were you paid by anyone to prepare
`9 or work on your declarations in these
`10 proceedings?
`11 A. I did not.
`12 Q. Nobody paid you; is that correct?
`13 You said that you did not, but did anyone pay
`14 you?
`15 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`16 A. That's what you asked me?
`17 Q. Right.
`18 A. Can you clarify the question?
`19 Q. I think it was just a question
`20 answer issue. I asked if anyone paid you. You
`21 said I did not, but the question was did anyone
`22 pay you?
`23 A. No one paid me.
`24 Q. I want to ask some background
`25 questions about three companies that are
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`Page 22
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`1 GAcental dot com?
`2 A. Then this is a typo. It should be
`3 central.
`4 Q. Was there a company named GAcentral
`5 dot com?
`6 A. I don't recall if we incorporated a
`7 company under this name.
`8 Q. FlyOver Technologies Incorporated,
`9 was that a company you were involved with?
`10 A. Correct.
`11 Q. What is the relationship, if any,
`12 between GAcentral dot com and FlyOver
`13 Technologies?
`14 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`15 A. Can you clarify your question,
`16 please?
`17 Q. Yes, so is there -- did FlyOver --
`18 did FlyOver Technologies incorporate or use any
`19 of the technology from the GAcentral dot com
`20 product?
`21 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`22 Compound.
`23 A. Can you dissect the question for me?
`24 Q. Did FlyOver Technologies use any of
`25 the technology related to GAcentral dot com?
`Page 24
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`1 mentioned in your declaration. There is 3DVU,
`2 there is FlyOver Technology and then there --
`3 is it GAcentral dot com or GAcental dot com?
`4 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`5 A. Can you point me to the declaration?
`6 Q. Yes. If you look at paragraph
`7 twelve on page five of your declaration.
`8 A. Page four?
`9 Q. Yes, paragraph twelve.
`10 A. Yes.
`11 Q. Why don't you just read that
`12 paragraph?
`13 A. I --
`14 Q. Just to yourself?
`15 A. (Witness reading document). I can
`16 read it, yes.
`17 Q. There is a company identified as
`18 GAcental dot com, C-E-N-T-A-L dot com. I'm
`19 just curious whether that is a typo and it
`20 should be GAcentral dot com or if that is
`21 correct GAcental?
`22 A. That is not what it said. This is
`23 not the company. It said -- here let me read
`24 it. "Initial created a product called."
`25 Q. So was there no company named
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`1 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`2 Compound.
`3 A. Can you dissect it further?
`4 Q. What is it that you're not
`5 understanding?
`6 A. Your question.
`7 Q. What about the question don't you
`8 understand? Let me ask, you know or do you
`9 know what the GAcentral dot com product was?
`10 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`11 A. You assume it was a product.
`12 Q. Was there no GAcentral dot com
`13 product?
`14 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`15 A. There was a working prototype.
`16 Q. So the GAcentral dot com, there was
`17 no product, but there was a working prototype;
`18 that is your testimony?
`19 MR. COULSON: Objection.
`20 A. No. Let me correct it. You can
`21 call it a product. So I'll continue with your
`22 question. So let's go back to the initial
`23 question you had before.
`24 Q. So describe in your own words what
`25 the GAcentral dot com prototype was.
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`1 MR. COULSON: I object to the
`2 witness being interrupted. Counsel has at
`3 one time stood up in front of the witness
`4 and at multiple times interrupted the
`5 witness. The witness is currently looking
`6 at the document and I object to him being
`7 interrupted while he is doing that.
`8 I ask that you please allow the full
`9 and fair testimony to allow him to finish
`10 what he is doing.
`11 MR. BERNSTEIN: Okay, Mr. Coulson.
`12 A. (Witness reviewing documents).
`13 Okay, so can you repeat your question again?
`14 Q. Actually I'm going to ask another
`15 question now. When did you start working on
`16 this GAcentral dot com prototype?
`17 MR. COULSON: Objection. Form.
`18 A. You define it.
`19 Q. Define -- what would you like me to
`20 define?
`21 A. GAcentral, what are you looking for?
`22 Q. GAcentral dot com, the prototype,
`23 when did you start working on that?
`24 A. You assume it was a prototype and I
`25 said it was a product, if you recall.
`
`1 GAcentral dot com product?
`2 A. It was a collaborative effort.
`3 Q. What does that mean, it was a
`4 collaborative effort?
`5 A. We collaborate and work on it
`6 together.
`7 Q. Every aspect of the GAcentral dot
`8 com you worked on it together?
`9 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`10 A. What do you mean by any?
`11 Q. I mean you seem to be -- your
`12 testimony seems to be and I don't want to put
`13 words in your mouth, I'm just trying to get to
`14 what happened back then, but what -- are you
`15 saying that all aspects of GAcentral dot com
`16 product you both worked on things equally?
`17 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`18 A. I'm not clear what is all aspects.
`19 Q. Who wrote the source code for the
`20 GAcentral dot com product?
`21 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`22 Compound.
`23 A. Can you dissect it for me, please?
`24 MR. BERNSTEIN: So, Mr. Coulson, how
`25 is that compound? The question was who
`
`Page 26
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`Page 28
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`1 Q. Okay, I guess I'm a little bit
`2 unclear. So now you're saying the GAcentral
`3 dot com, that was a product, not a prototype?
`4 A. Correct.
`5 MR. COULSON: Objection. Form.
`6 Q. So when did you start working on the
`7 GAcentral dot com product?
`8 A. Back in 1999.
`9 Q. Who, other than you, worked on that,
`10 on GAcentral dot com?
`11 MR. COULSON: Objection. Form.
`12 A. You mean people? What are you
`13 looking for?
`14 Q. People will be good. Thank you.
`15 A. It was a collaboration between
`16 myself and Mr. Yoni Lavi.
`17 Q. Is it Lavi or Levy? How do you say
`18 his last name?
`19 A. Lavi.
`20 Q. Yoni Lavi who is the coinventor on
`21 some of these patents that are -- some of the
`22 Bradium patents, correct?
`23 A. Correct.
`24 Q. What were your responsibilities as
`25 compared to Mr. Lavi's responsibilities on the
`Page 27
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`1 wrote the source code for the GAcentral
`2 dot com product?
`3 MR. COULSON: Well, certainly I
`4 thought embedded in that question -- I
`5 mean there is declarations we have that
`6 have a source code attached to it, so I
`7 felt like the question was maybe implying
`8 that the source code in those declarations
`9 is the GAcentral product and I didn't want
`10 the witness to get confused between when
`11 you're talking about what was the subject
`12 matter of the --
`13 MR. BERNSTEIN: That is not a
`14 compound objection.
`15 MR. COULSON: I'm required under the
`16 Board Rules 42.53(d)(5) or 42.64(C) to
`17 identify my objections when asked on the
`18 record. So I need to do that on the
`19 record per the Board rules, which I'm sure
`20 you are familiar with.
`21 So I felt like your question was
`22 possibly directed towards the declarations
`23 that include source code and you may be
`24 trying to tie that to GAcentral product.
`25 So I thought that that was -- that's why I
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`8 (Pages 26 - 29)
`
`Microsoft Corp. Exhibit 1019
`
`

`

`1 made the objection because I want you to
`2 have a full and fair opportunity to ask
`3 and I want the record to be clear in this
`4 respect.
`5 MR. BERNSTEIN: I object to that
`6 explanation. I object to the blatant
`7 coaching of the witness contained in that
`8 explanation of a pretty simple question.
`9 I caution you, Mr. Coulson, to stop
`10 making baseless objections. If you have a
`11 legitimate objection, that's fine and I
`12 will work with you, but stop coaching the
`13 witness.
`14 MR. COULSON: I disagree with that.
`15 I am merely, in response to your request,
`16 explained my objection. I made a one word
`17 objection as required by the Board. In
`18 both cases where you've asked me for an
`19 explanation, I tried to provide you with
`20 the reason for my objection and I'll be
`21 happy to do that in the future.
`22 Q. So who wrote the code for GAcentral
`23 dot com, Mr. Levanon?
`24 MR. COULSON: Same objection.
`25 A. I cannot really answer this question
`Page 30
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`1 A. Yes, he is, to the best of my
`2 knowledge.
`3 Q. Did -- when did you hire Mr. Lavi?
`4 MR. COULSON: Objection.
`5 Foundation.
`6 A. I don't feel comfortable with your
`7 question. I don't understand.
`8 Q. Did you ever hire Yoni Lavi to work
`9 at any of your companies?
`10 A. Yes, I did.
`11 Q. When is the first time you hired
`12 him?
`13 A. I cannot recall the exact date.
`14 Q. Do you know what company of yours
`15 you hired him to work at?
`16 A. He was employee of 3DVU and FlyOver.
`17 Q. FlyOver Technology?
`18 A. FlyOver Technology.
`19 Q. But you don't recall when you first
`20 hired him?
`21 A. I don't.
`22 Q. Do you know if it was before or
`23 after 2000 if you remember?
`24 A. I don't remember and I'm not going
`25 to fill up the blanks.
`
`Page 32
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`1 the way you probably like me, but I can explain
`2 to you what the GAcentral was and maybe from
`3 this you are going to get an understanding.
`4 Q. No, that's --
`5 MR. BERNSTEIN: I object as
`6 nonresponsive.
`7 MR. COULSON: Object to the witness
`8 being interrupted.
`9 Q. You cannot answer the question as to
`10 who wrote the source code for the GAcentral dot
`11 com product?
`12 MR. COULSON: For the record, I need
`13 to state that the witness was in the
`14 middle of speaking and was interrupted.
`15 A. You make an assumption in your
`16 question which makes it very difficult for me
`17 and I'm not comfortable to answer it the way
`18 you ask it.
`19 Q. Did you write any of the source code
`20 for the GAcentral dot com product?
`21 MR. COULSON: Objection to form.
`22 A. I'm not a coder.
`23 Q. Did you write any of the source code
`24 for -- well, let me go back. Is Mr. Lavi a
`25 coder?
`
`1 Q. Do you recall any other employees
`2 who worked at FlyOver Technology other than
`3 yourself, other than Mr. Lavi?
`4 A. I do.
`5 Q. Can you please provide their names?
`6 A. Leon Berger.
`7 Q. Anyone else?
`8 A. Lev.
`9 Q. Does Lev have a last name?
`10 A. It's a difficult Russian name and I
`11 don't remember it. I don't know how to spell
`12 it.
`13 Q. So it was Lev Russian something last
`14 name?
`15 A. Correct.
`16 Q. Anyone else?
`17 A. For a short period there was a guy
`18 by the name of Alex. Again I can't remember
`19 his last name. Again another Russian name.
`20 And there may be some others. I don't recall
`21 right now.
`22 Q. What about any employees who worked
`23 at 3DVU other than you and Mr. Lavi?
`24 A. There may be some other. I cannot
`25 recall right now.
`
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