CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`·
`
`·1· · · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`·2· · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·3· ·____________________________________________________
`
`·4
`
`·5· · · · · · · · · · ·CATERPILLAR INC.
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · Petitioner
`·6
`
`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · · v.
`
`·8
`· · · · · · · · · · WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.,
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner
`
`10
`· · · · · · · · · · · Case IPR2017-02188
`11· · · · · · · · · ·Patent No. 9,656,530
`
`12
`· · ·____________________________________________________
`13
`
`14
`
`15· · ·*** PORTIONS OF THIS TRANSCRIPT CONFIDENTIAL ***
`
`16
`
`17· · · · · · · · · ·Cross-Examination of:
`
`18· · · · · · · · · · DR. JOHN H. LUMKES
`
`19· · · · · · · · · · ·November 1, 2018
`
`20· · · · · · · · · · · · ·9:00 a.m.
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24· ·___________________________________________________
`
`25· ·Reported By:· DEBORAH K. WATSON, RPR, CRR, LCR
`
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`
`CATERPILLAR EXHIBIT 1169
`CATERPILLAR v. WIRTGEN
`IPR2017-02188
`
`Page 1 of 200
`
`
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`·
`
`·1· · · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`·2· · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·3· ·____________________________________________________
`
`·4
`
`·5· · · · · · · · · · ·CATERPILLAR INC.
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · Petitioner
`·6
`
`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · · v.
`
`·8
`· · · · · · · · · · WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.,
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner
`
`10
`· · · · · · · · · · · Case IPR2017-02188
`11· · · · · · · · · ·Patent No. 9,656,530
`
`12
`· · ·____________________________________________________
`13
`
`14
`
`15· · ·*** PORTIONS OF THIS TRANSCRIPT CONFIDENTIAL ***
`
`16
`
`17· · · · · · · · · ·Cross-Examination of:
`
`18· · · · · · · · · · DR. JOHN H. LUMKES
`
`19· · · · · · · · · · ·November 1, 2018
`
`20· · · · · · · · · · · · ·9:00 a.m.
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24· ·___________________________________________________
`
`25· ·Reported By:· DEBORAH K. WATSON, RPR, CRR, LCR
`
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`
`CATERPILLAR EXHIBIT 1169
`CATERPILLAR v. WIRTGEN
`IPR2017-02188
`
`Page 1 of 200
`
`
`
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 2
`
`·1
`
`·2· · · · · · A· P· P· E· A· R· A· N· C· E S
`
`·3
`
`·4
`
`·5· ·For the Petitioner, Caterpillar, Inc.:
`
`·6· · · · · · ·DAVID K. MROZ
`· · · · · · · ·Attorney at Law
`·7· · · · · · ·Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow, Garrett &
`· · · · · · · · ·Dunner, LLP
`·8· · · · · · ·901 New York Avenue, NW
`· · · · · · · ·Washington, DC 20001
`·9· · · · · · ·(202) 408-4022
`· · · · · · · ·david.mroz@finnegan.com
`10
`
`11· ·For the Patent Owner, Wirtgen America, Inc.:
`
`12· · · · · · ·SETH R. OGDEN, Ph.D.
`· · · · · · · ·Attorney at Law
`13· · · · · · ·Patterson Intellectual Property Law
`· · · · · · · ·1600 Division Street, Suite 500
`14· · · · · · ·Nashville, TN 37203
`· · · · · · · ·(615) 242-2400
`15· · · · · · ·sro@iplawgroup.com
`
`16· · · · · · ·R. WILSON "TREY" POWERS III, Ph.D.
`· · · · · · · ·Attorney at Law
`17· · · · · · ·Sterne Kessler Goldstein Fox
`· · · · · · · ·1100 New York Avenue, NW
`18· · · · · · ·Washington, DC 20005
`· · · · · · · ·(202) 371-2600
`19· · · · · · ·tpowers@skgf.com
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`
`Page 2 of 200
`
`
`
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 3
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·I· N· D· E X
`
`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Page
`
`·3· ·Examination
`· · ·By Mr. Mroz· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·6
`·4
`· · ·Examination
`·5· ·By Dr. Ogden· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 181
`
`·6
`
`·7
`
`·8· · · · · · · · · E· X· H· I· B· I· T S
`
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Page
`
`10· ·Caterpillar Exhibit 1161· · · · · · · · · · · · · 7
`· · · · · Petitioner's Corrected Notice of
`11· · · · Cross-Examination of Dr. John H. Lumkes
`
`12· ·Caterpillar Exhibit 1162· · · · · · · · · · · · · 8
`· · · · · Excerpt from 04/20/18 hearing In the
`13· · · · Matter of: Certain Road Milling
`· · · · · Machines And Components Thereof
`14
`· · ·Caterpillar Exhibit 1163· · · · · · · · · · · · 113
`15· · · · Initial Expert Report of Dr. John H.
`· · · · · Lumkes Regarding Infringement and the
`16· · · · Domestic Industry Technical Prong of
`· · · · · U.S. Patent Nos. 9,656,530 and
`17· · · · 7,828,309
`
`18· ·Caterpillar Exhibit 1164· · · · · · · · · · · · 115
`· · · · · Rebuttal Expert Report of Dr. John H.
`19· · · · Lumkes Regarding Validity of U.S.
`· · · · · Patent Nos. 9,656,530 and 7,828,309
`20
`· · ·Caterpillar Exhibit 1165· · · · · · · · · · · · 117
`21· · · · Direct Witness Statement of John H.
`· · · · · Lumkes
`22
`· · ·Caterpillar Exhibit 1166· · · · · · · · · · · · 158
`23· · · · Press release from Wirtgen's website:
`· · · · · Italy - State-of-the-art milling
`24· · · · technology for one of the most famous
`· · · · · race tracks in the world of motor
`25· · · · sports
`
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`
`Page 3 of 200
`
`
`
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 4
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Page
`
`·2· ·Caterpillar Exhibit 1167· · · · · · · · · · · · 165
`· · · · · (Confidential) Transcript, Videotaped
`·3· · · · Deposition of Timothy L. Lewis, Bates
`· · · · · RX-1008C.0001-0036
`·4
`· · ·Caterpillar Exhibit 1168· · · · · · · · · · · · 175
`·5· · · · (Confidential) Roadtec, Equipment
`· · · · · Proposal, Bates RX-0497C
`·6
`· · ·Wirtgen Exhibit 2041· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 183
`·7· · · · PM600 GW2, BATES IPR2017-02188-000001-4
`
`·8· ·Wirtgen Exhibit 2042· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 184
`· · · · · NPI Manual, Bates
`·9· · · · IPR2017-02188-000005-16
`
`10· ·Wirtgen Exhibit 2043· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 186
`· · · · · CPLN NPI Update Presentation, Bates
`11· · · · IPR2017-02188-000017-20
`
`12· ·Wirtgen Exhibit 2044· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 187
`· · · · · CPLN Trade-Off Kick-Off, Bates
`13· · · · IPR2017-02188-000021-23
`
`14· ·Exhibit No. 2045· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 188
`· · · · · (This exhibit number not used.)
`15
`· · ·Wirtgen Exhibit 2046· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 188
`16· · · · PM600 Hydraulics Presentation, Bates
`· · · · · IPR2017-02188-000028-29
`17
`· · ·Wirtgen Exhibit 2047· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 189
`18· · · · Sycamore Project Proposal, Bates
`· · · · · IPR2017-02188-000030-35
`19
`· · ·Exhibit No. 2048· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 191
`20· · · · (This exhibit number not used.)
`
`21· ·Wirtgen Exhibit 2049· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 191
`· · · · · All CPLN GW1 Review, Bates
`22· · · · IPR2017-02188-000039-41
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`
`Page 4 of 200
`
`
`
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 5
`
`·1
`
`·2· · · · · · S· T· I· P· U· L· A· T· I· O· N S
`
`·3
`
`·4· · · · · · ·The Cross-Examination of DR. JOHN H.
`
`·5· ·LUMKES was taken by counsel for the Petitioner, at
`
`·6· ·the offices of Patterson Intellectual Property Law,
`
`·7· ·1600 Division Street, Suite 500, Nashville,
`
`·8· ·Tennessee, on November 1, 2018.
`
`·9· · · · · · ·It is agreed that DEBORAH K. WATSON, RPR,
`
`10· ·CRR, Notary Public and Licensed Court Reporter for
`
`11· ·the State of Tennessee, may swear the witness, and
`
`12· ·that the reading and signing of the completed
`
`13· ·deposition by the witness was not waived.
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`
`YVer1f
`
`Page 5 of 200
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`
`
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 6
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · ·*· ·*· ·*
`
`·2· · · · · · · ·MR. MROZ:· David Mroz on behalf of
`
`·3· ·Caterpillar.· I'm with Finnegan Henderson; that's
`
`·4· ·the Caterpillar, petitioner.
`
`·5· · · · · · · ·DR. OGDEN:· Seth Ogden on behalf of
`
`·6· ·Wirtgen, patent owner, with Patterson Intellectual
`
`·7· ·Property.· And with me is --
`
`·8· · · · · · · ·(The court reporter asked for
`
`·9· ·clarification.)
`
`10· · · · · · · ·DR. OGDEN:· Sorry.· Is Ralph Wilson
`
`11· ·Powers, III, of Sterne Kessler, also on behalf of
`
`12· ·Wirtgen, patent owner.
`
`13
`
`14· · · · · · · · · · · · ·*· ·*· ·*
`
`15· · · · · · · · · · DR. JOHN H. LUMKES,
`
`16· ·was called as a witness, and after having been duly
`
`17· ·sworn, testified as follows:
`
`18
`
`19· · · · · · · · · ·E X A M I N A T I O N
`
`20· ·QUESTIONS BY MR. MROZ:
`
`21· ·Q.· · ·Good morning, Dr. Lumkes, how are you?
`
`22· ·A.· · ·Good.· Good morning.
`
`23· ·Q.· · ·Good.· I know you're a seasoned pro at this
`
`24· ·point, so I won't go through -- I won't go through
`
`25· ·all the beginning stuff.· I just want to say if you
`
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`
`YVer1f
`
`Page 6 of 200
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`
`
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 7
`
`·1· ·don't understand a question, let me know so I can
`
`·2· ·either rephrase it and try to figure out what it is
`
`·3· ·that we don't understand, and then I'll just
`
`·4· ·rephrase the question.· But if you don't tell me you
`
`·5· ·don't understand the question, I'll assume you
`
`·6· ·understand it.· Is that fair?
`
`·7· ·A.· · ·Okay.
`
`·8· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· Is there any reason you can't testify
`
`·9· ·truthfully today?
`
`10· ·A.· · ·No.
`
`11· ·Q.· · ·You understand you've taken an oath to tell
`
`12· ·the truth?
`
`13· ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`14· · · · · · · ·(WHEREUPON, a document was marked as
`
`15· ·Caterpillar Exhibit Number 1161.)
`
`16· ·BY MR. MROZ:
`
`17· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And the first exhibit is going to be
`
`18· ·Caterpillar Exhibit 1161.
`
`19· · · · · · · ·(An off-the-record discussion was
`
`20· ·held.)
`
`21· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Could I get a copy of my
`
`22· ·declaration, too, please?
`
`23· ·BY MR. MROZ:
`
`24· ·Q.· · ·Sure.
`
`25· ·A.· · ·Okay.
`
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`
`YVer1f
`
`Page 7 of 200
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`
`
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 8
`
`·1· ·Q.· · ·Before I give you your declaration, do you
`
`·2· ·know what that document is?
`
`·3· ·A.· · ·Let me read it for a minute.
`
`·4· ·Q.· · ·Sure.
`
`·5· ·A.· · ·(Reviewing document.)· Okay.· I read it.· I'm
`
`·6· ·not sure what your actual question is.
`
`·7· ·Q.· · ·Sure.· It's -- I'll represent it's just the
`
`·8· ·deposition notice which provides -- that's the
`
`·9· ·reason we're here today.
`
`10· · · · · And the reason I gave it to you is because
`
`11· ·you see on there that it mentions the IPR
`
`12· ·proceeding that we're here for today?· It's
`
`13· ·IPR2017-02188 for the '530 patent?
`
`14· ·A.· · ·Correct.
`
`15· ·Q.· · ·And you prepared a declaration for this IPR
`
`16· ·proceeding?
`
`17· ·A.· · ·I did.
`
`18· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· It's Exhibit 2060.· Do you recognize
`
`19· ·Exhibit 2060?
`
`20· ·A.· · ·(Reviewing document.)· Yeah, that appears to
`
`21· ·be my declaration.
`
`22· ·Q.· · ·Okay.
`
`23· · · · · · · ·(WHEREUPON, a document was marked as
`
`24· ·Caterpillar Exhibit Number 1162.)
`
`25· ·///
`
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`
`YVer1f
`
`Page 8 of 200
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`
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`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 9
`
`·1· ·BY MR. MROZ:
`
`·2· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· The next exhibit I'm going to give you
`
`·3· ·is Exhibit 1162.· And this is the public version of
`
`·4· ·the trial transcript from the ICT case that you
`
`·5· ·testified in.
`
`·6· ·A.· · ·You need to label these or --
`
`·7· ·Q.· · ·It's already on there.
`
`·8· ·A.· · ·Oh, I see.
`
`·9· · · · · · · ·DR. OGDEN:· Can I have a copy?
`
`10· · · · · · · ·MR. MROZ:· Oh, sorry.
`
`11· ·BY MR. MROZ:
`
`12· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· Dr. Lumkes, you're a professor in
`
`13· ·agricultural engineering, correct?
`
`14· ·A.· · ·Correct.
`
`15· ·Q.· · ·Your focus -- are you focused, in that
`
`16· ·position, you focus in your career, on the design of
`
`17· ·off-highway machinery?
`
`18· ·A.· · ·As a component of what I do, correct.
`
`19· ·Q.· · ·Off-highway machinery includes tractors, road
`
`20· ·construction equipment, earthmoving equipment, and
`
`21· ·pit mining equipment, right?
`
`22· ·A.· · ·Yeah, could you say that list once more?
`
`23· ·Q.· · ·Sure.· Off-highway machinery includes
`
`24· ·tractors, road construction equipment, earthmoving
`
`25· ·equipment, and pit mining equipment, right?
`
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`
`YVer1f
`
`Page 9 of 200
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`
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`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 10
`
`·1· ·A.· · ·That would be consistent with it, yes.
`
`·2· ·Q.· · ·And you've either operated or worked on a
`
`·3· ·variety of different off-highway machines?
`
`·4· ·A.· · ·I have.
`
`·5· ·Q.· · ·This includes wheel loaders, graders, skid
`
`·6· ·steers, tractors, rollers, and backhoes?
`
`·7· ·A.· · ·Correct.
`
`·8· ·Q.· · ·You've done design work involving off-highway
`
`·9· ·machines, right?
`
`10· ·A.· · ·I have.
`
`11· ·Q.· · ·You've worked on, from a design standpoint,
`
`12· ·windrowers?
`
`13· ·A.· · ·Correct.
`
`14· ·Q.· · ·And backhoe arms?
`
`15· ·A.· · ·Correct.
`
`16· ·Q.· · ·But before you started working on this
`
`17· ·dispute between Caterpillar and Wirtgen, you never
`
`18· ·actually worked on the design of a road milling
`
`19· ·machine, did you?
`
`20· ·A.· · ·Could you clarify designing machines or being
`
`21· ·familiar with the design of machines?
`
`22· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· So if you go to page 289 of your
`
`23· ·transcript.
`
`24· ·A.· · ·Okay.
`
`25· ·Q.· · ·Line 20, just review the question, lines 20
`
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Huseby, Inc.· Regional Centers
`www.huseby.com
`800-333-2082
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`Charlotte ~ Atlanta ~ Washington, DC ~ New York ~ Houston ~ San Francisco
`
`YVer1f
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`Page 10 of 200
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`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 11
`
`·1· ·through 22.
`
`·2· ·A.· · ·Correct.· That says the design of a cold
`
`·3· ·planer.
`
`·4· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· So before this case, you never
`
`·5· ·actually worked on the design of a cold planer, did
`
`·6· ·you?
`
`·7· ·A.· · ·Correct.· Correct.
`
`·8· ·Q.· · ·Did the work you did before you began
`
`·9· ·assisting on this case, on all of those off-highway
`
`10· ·machines, give you the expertise necessary to do
`
`11· ·your analysis in this case?
`
`12· ·A.· · ·I believe it did, yes.
`
`13· ·Q.· · ·Do you ever encourage your students,
`
`14· ·Dr. Lumkes, to look to other fields when
`
`15· ·performing -- when designing?
`
`16· · · · · · · ·DR. OGDEN:· Objection; form.
`
`17· ·BY MR. MROZ:
`
`18· ·Q.· · ·Let me ask the question again:· Did you ever
`
`19· ·encourage your students to look to other fields when
`
`20· ·performing designs?
`
`21· · · · · · · ·DR. OGDEN:· Objection; form.
`
`22· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I would encourage them to
`
`23· ·consider relevant technologies.
`
`24· ·BY MR. MROZ:
`
`25· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
`
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`Page 11 of 200
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`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 12
`
`·1· ·A.· · ·No, it's okay.
`
`·2· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· So let's go to page 291 of your
`
`·3· ·transcript, lines 16 through 19.· The question was:
`
`·4· · · · · · · · · "Did you ever encourage your
`
`·5· · · · · · · ·students, Dr. Lumkes, to look to other
`
`·6· · · · · · · ·fields when performing designs?"
`
`·7· · · · · · · · · "ANSWER:· I do."
`
`·8· ·A.· · ·I see that.
`
`·9· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· Do you agree with that?
`
`10· ·A.· · ·Yes, in the context of the surrounding
`
`11· ·questions.
`
`12· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· If a student were working on a project
`
`13· ·on an agricultural machine, for example, would you
`
`14· ·ever suggest that they look to the drone field?
`
`15· · · · · · · ·DR. OGDEN:· Objection; form.
`
`16· · · · · · · ·(The court reporter asked for
`
`17· ·clarification.)
`
`18· · · · · · · ·MR. MROZ:· Drone, yeah.
`
`19· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· So I would -- I would
`
`20· ·confirm my answer there that technologies are
`
`21· ·evolving in all different fields.· For example, in
`
`22· ·the drone field, the use of different kinds of
`
`23· ·sensors that may have applicability, so drones are
`
`24· ·very commonly used now in agriculture, so it's not a
`
`25· ·stretch.
`
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`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 13
`
`·1· ·BY MR. MROZ:
`
`·2· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· So going back to page 291 of your
`
`·3· ·transcript, Line 20, you were asked:
`
`·4· · · · · · · · · "If a student were working on a
`
`·5· · · · · · · ·project on an agriculture machine, for
`
`·6· · · · · · · ·example, would you ever suggest that
`
`·7· · · · · · · ·they look to the drone field?
`
`·8· · · · · · · · · And you answered:· "I would,
`
`·9· · · · · · · ·depending on the application and the
`
`10· · · · · · · ·agricultural field they're looking at."
`
`11· · · · · · · · · "Why is that," I asked.
`
`12· · · · · · · · · You answered:· "Technologies are
`
`13· · · · · · · ·evolving in all different fields.· For
`
`14· · · · · · · ·example, in the drone field, the use of
`
`15· · · · · · · ·different kinds of sensors that may have
`
`16· · · · · · · ·applicability, so drones are very
`
`17· · · · · · · ·commonly used now in agriculture, so
`
`18· · · · · · · ·it's not a stretch."
`
`19· · · · · · · · · "QUESTION:· That's because a good
`
`20· · · · · · · ·engineer knows that a solution that
`
`21· · · · · · · ·works in one field might work in
`
`22· · · · · · · ·another?
`
`23· · · · · · · · · "It might."
`
`24· · · · · Do you stand by that testimony?
`
`25· ·A.· · ·Yes.· It's consistent with what I would tell
`
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`Page 13 of 200
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`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 14
`
`·1· ·my engineers.
`
`·2· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· You can put that aside now.· I'm just
`
`·3· ·going to ask you some questions about sensors so we
`
`·4· ·have our terminology correct.
`
`·5· · · · · What's a linear distance sensor?
`
`·6· ·A.· · ·Are you asking in general or referring to a
`
`·7· ·specific definition?
`
`·8· ·Q.· · ·In general.· If a student asked you, what's a
`
`·9· ·linear distance sensor, what would you --
`
`10· ·A.· · ·Something to measure linear distance.
`
`11· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· What information is obtained from a
`
`12· ·linear distance sensor?
`
`13· · · · · · · ·DR. OGDEN:· Objection; form.
`
`14· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· It would depend on the
`
`15· ·sensor, but some sort of representation of the
`
`16· ·distance that you're trying to measure.
`
`17· ·BY MR. MROZ:
`
`18· ·Q.· · ·Can you name some different types of linear
`
`19· ·distance sensors?
`
`20· ·A.· · ·Ultrasonic laser; potentiometers with string
`
`21· ·pots; linear variable displacement transducers,
`
`22· ·LVDTs.
`
`23· ·Q.· · ·So the potentiometer/string pot example, are
`
`24· ·those sometimes called wire-rope sensors?
`
`25· ·A.· · ·That's my understanding, yes.
`
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`Page 14 of 200
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`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 15
`
`·1· ·Q.· · ·Are they sometimes called yo-yo sensors?
`
`·2· ·A.· · ·That's my understanding, yes.
`
`·3· ·Q.· · ·And they're sometimes called string pot
`
`·4· ·sensors?
`
`·5· ·A.· · ·That's my understanding, yes.
`
`·6· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· So if any one of us uses the term
`
`·7· ·wire-rope, yo-yo, or string pot sensor today, we can
`
`·8· ·assume that's -- we're referring to the same thing,
`
`·9· ·which is one of these potentiometer sensors?
`
`10· ·A.· · ·Yeah, unless there was cause to differentiate
`
`11· ·it based on the context.
`
`12· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· So how do one of these wire-rope,
`
`13· ·yo-yo, or string pot sensors work?
`
`14· ·A.· · ·They're variable -- there's variation in how
`
`15· ·they work, but ultimately, a string or a wire-rope
`
`16· ·or a cable is pulled out of a -- the sensor head
`
`17· ·that would reflect how much string is pulled out,
`
`18· ·and there's different ways you can deal with
`
`19· ·potentiometer --
`
`20· · · · · · · ·(The court reporter asked for
`
`21· ·clarification.)
`
`22· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· There's different ways
`
`23· ·that you could measure the amount of string or cable
`
`24· ·that is pulled out or retracted into the sensor.
`
`25· ·///
`
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`Page 15 of 200
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`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 16
`
`·1· ·BY MR. MROZ:
`
`·2· ·Q.· · ·In these -- for the sensors, you're measuring
`
`·3· ·the amount of string or cable that's pulled out?
`
`·4· ·A.· · ·Typically, yes.
`
`·5· ·Q.· · ·That gives you your distance reading?
`
`·6· ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`·7· ·Q.· · ·What about a transducer-based sensor?· How
`
`·8· ·does that work?
`
`·9· · · · · · · ·DR. OGDEN:· Objection; form.
`
`10· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· There's a lot of
`
`11· ·commonality in usages in terms of the transducer and
`
`12· ·sensor because of -- in literature, they're used
`
`13· ·sometimes -- oftentimes interchangeably, so I guess
`
`14· ·I'd like to know what context you're asking in.
`
`15· ·BY MR. MROZ:
`
`16· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· We can -- well, isn't there a linear
`
`17· ·distance sensor where you have a transducer and a
`
`18· ·ring magnet?
`
`19· ·A.· · ·There is.
`
`20· ·Q.· · ·How does that -- how does a sensor like that
`
`21· ·work at a high level?
`
`22· ·A.· · ·At a high level?· So you're talking like a
`
`23· ·magnetostrictive?
`
`24· ·Q.· · ·Yes.
`
`25· ·A.· · ·Okay.· So there would be a ring magnet that
`
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`Page 16 of 200
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`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 17
`
`·1· ·travels down a wave guide.· The sending unit of the
`
`·2· ·sensor would send a pulse out.· The electromagnet --
`
`·3· ·or the magnet on the wave guide produces a
`
`·4· ·constriction in that field which reflects the wave
`
`·5· ·back, and it times the length of time for that wave
`
`·6· ·to leave the sending unit, come back to the sending
`
`·7· ·unit, calculates the distance.
`
`·8· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· How does a laser sensor work?
`
`·9· · · · · · · ·DR. OGDEN:· Objection; form.
`
`10· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Typically sends a laser
`
`11· ·beam and looks at the angle of incidence on the
`
`12· ·return beam to know how far away it is from a
`
`13· ·reflective device.
`
`14· ·BY MR. MROZ:
`
`15· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And that's measuring a linear distance
`
`16· ·as well?
`
`17· ·A.· · ·Well, there's different laser sensors, and so
`
`18· ·it would depend on the application of it.· That's
`
`19· ·one application, if you're just measuring linear
`
`20· ·distance.
`
`21· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· How would a linear distance laser
`
`22· ·sensor work?
`
`23· ·A.· · ·That would be the one I just described, was a
`
`24· ·use of a laser to measure a linear distance.
`
`25· ·Q.· · ·I believe earlier you mentioned an ultrasonic
`
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`Page 17 of 200
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`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 18
`
`·1· ·linear distance sensor?
`
`·2· ·A.· · ·Yeah.
`
`·3· ·Q.· · ·How does that work?
`
`·4· ·A.· · ·Also a timing mechanism, so it sends out an
`
`·5· ·ultrasonic pulse and measures the amount of time for
`
`·6· ·that pulse to come back from a reflective surface.
`
`·7· ·Q.· · ·So what information is it obtaining?
`
`·8· · · · · · · ·DR. OGDEN:· Objection; form.
`
`·9· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· What information is it
`
`10· ·being --
`
`11· ·BY MR. MROZ:
`
`12· ·Q.· · ·Sorry.· The ultrasonic sensor you just
`
`13· ·described, when it performs that function you just
`
`14· ·described, what's the information that it obtains?
`
`15· ·A.· · ·Well, typically it would be converted into
`
`16· ·the distance related to the time that that pulse
`
`17· ·took to travel there and back.
`
`18· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· For all of these sensors we've been
`
`19· ·talking about, is the information that the sensor
`
`20· ·obtains converted into some type of distance-based
`
`21· ·measurement?
`
`22· ·A.· · ·That would be my assumption because you're
`
`23· ·asking me to describe linear distance devices.
`
`24· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· What's a road milling machine?
`
`25· ·A.· · ·(No response.)
`
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`Page 18 of 200
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`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 19
`
`·1· ·Q.· · ·Let me rephrase it.
`
`·2· ·A.· · ·Yeah.
`
`·3· ·Q.· · ·Dr. Lumkes, are you familiar with road
`
`·4· ·milling machines?
`
`·5· ·A.· · ·Yes, I am.
`
`·6· ·Q.· · ·How so?
`
`·7· ·A.· · ·I have experience in working in and around
`
`·8· ·the machines on job construction sites, and
`
`·9· ·experience with the types of systems and components
`
`10· ·that would be utilized on the machines.
`
`11· ·Q.· · ·So you know that road milling machines can
`
`12· ·have different types of linear distance sensors?
`
`13· ·A.· · ·That's true.
`
`14· ·Q.· · ·They can have linear distance sensors that
`
`15· ·measure a distance of a point -- well, strike that.
`
`16· · · · · They can have linear distance sensors that
`
`17· ·measure a distance between a point on a machine and
`
`18· ·a point that's not on the machine; is that correct?
`
`19· ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`20· ·Q.· · ·Are these called external reference sensors?
`
`21· · · · · · · ·DR. OGDEN:· Objection; form.
`
`22· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· So I would -- an external
`
`23· ·reference sensor would imply that there's a
`
`24· ·measurement reference external to the machine.
`
`25· ·///
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`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 20
`
`·1· ·BY MR. MROZ:
`
`·2· ·Q.· · ·I'm just trying to get the terminology --
`
`·3· ·A.· · ·Yeah.
`
`·4· ·Q.· · ·-- so we don't talk past each other all day.
`
`·5· ·A.· · ·Yeah.
`
`·6· ·Q.· · ·So they're called external reference sensors
`
`·7· ·because they're measuring a distance to an external
`
`·8· ·reference point that's not on the machine?
`
`·9· ·A.· · ·External reference sensor in general doesn't
`
`10· ·imply that it has to be a distance.· So you'd have
`
`11· ·to know that from the context.
`
`12· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· So let's assuming we're using -- let's
`
`13· ·assume we're using a linear distance sensor.· So if
`
`14· ·I have a linear distance external reference sensor,
`
`15· ·I would call it an external reference sensor because
`
`16· ·it's measuring a distance, if it's measuring a
`
`17· ·distance, to an external reference point that's not
`
`18· ·on the machine, right?
`
`19· · · · · · · ·DR. OGDEN:· Objection; form.
`
`20· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Yeah.· So, again, it goes
`
`21· ·back to my original note.· An external reference
`
`22· ·sensor measuring distance is measuring something
`
`23· ·external in the context of the milling machine.· An
`
`24· ·external elevation sensor would be descriptive of
`
`25· ·measuring something external to the machine in terms
`
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`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 21
`
`·1· ·of elevation.
`
`·2· ·BY MR. MROZ:
`
`·3· ·Q.· · ·Okay.· What's an external elevation sensor
`
`·4· ·that you just described measuring?
`
`·5· ·A.· · ·That goes back to the use of the terms in the
`
`·6· ·'530 patent and the patents under question in my
`
`·7· ·declaration.
`
`·8· ·Q.· · ·So the ground?
`
`·9· · · · · · · ·(The court reporter asked for
`
`10· ·clarification.)
`
`11· · · · · · · ·MR. MROZ:· The ground.
`
`12· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· In the context of -- could
`
`13· ·you rephrase your original question when you asked
`
`14· ·what --
`
`15· ·BY MR. MROZ:
`
`16· ·Q.· · ·Sure.· I'm just trying to determine what set
`
`17· ·of circumstances exist that causes you to call
`
`18· ·something an external reference sensor versus an
`
`19· ·internal reference sensor, for example?
`
`20· · · · · · · ·DR. OGDEN:· Objection; form.
`
`21· ·BY MR. MROZ:
`
`22· ·Q.· · ·So what type of circumstances exist that
`
`23· ·result in you calling something an external
`
`24· ·reference sensor?
`
`25· ·A.· · ·Where I'm struggling, it's hard to answer
`
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`Page 21 of 200
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`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`CATERPILLAR INC. vs WIRTGEN AMERICA, INC.
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`Dr. John H. Lumkes on 11/01/2018
`
`Page 22
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