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`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`∑3∑ ∑ ∑ ∑BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ Cases: IPR 2019-01237, IPR 2019-01239
`∑5∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑IPR 2019-01241, IPR 2019-01243
`∑6∑ ∑----------------------------------)
`∑7∑ ∑GOOGLE LLC,∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑)
`∑8∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Petitioner,∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑)
`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ vs.∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ )
`10∑ ∑VIRENTEM VENTURES, LLC,∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑)
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Patent Owner.∑ ∑ ∑ ∑)
`12∑ ∑----------------------------------)
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`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ TELEPHONIC DEPOSITION OF DAN SCHONFELD
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Northbrook, Illinois
`17∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ April 16, 2020
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`24∑ ∑JOB NO. 179455
`25∑ ∑Reported by:∑ BONNIE PRUSZYNSKI, RMR, RPR, CLR
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`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑April 16, 2020
`10∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑9:42 A.M.
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`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ TELEPHONIC DEPOSITION OF DAN
`15∑ ∑SCHONFELD, before Bonnie Pruszynski, a Registered
`16∑ ∑Professional Reporter, Registered Merit Reporter,
`17∑ ∑Certified Livenote Reporter, California Certified
`18∑ ∑Shorthand Reporter No. 13064 and Notary Public of
`19∑ ∑the State of New York.
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑THE REPORTER:∑ This is the court
`∑3∑ ∑ ∑ ∑reporter on April 16, 2020, for the
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑deposition of Dr. Dan Schonfeld.
`∑5∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Due to the need for this deposition
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑to take place remotely because of the
`∑7∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Government's order for social distancing,
`∑8∑ ∑ ∑ ∑will the parties stipulate that the court
`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑reporter may swear in the witness over
`10∑ ∑ ∑ ∑the phone and that the witness has
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑verified that he is Dr. Dan Schonfeld?
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MS. FINN:∑ This is Christina Finn
`13∑ ∑ ∑ ∑on behalf of the taking party, Virentem
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Ventures, patent owner.∑ We so stipulate.
`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ This is Dan
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Zeilberger on behalf of petitioner
`17∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Google.∑ We will also stipulate to that.
`18∑ ∑DAN SCHONFELD,
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑called as a witness, having been first
`20∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑duly sworn, was examined and testified
`21∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑as follows:
`22∑ ∑EXAMINATION
`23∑ ∑BY MS. FINN:
`24∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Good morning, Dr. Schonfeld.
`25∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Good morning.
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`∑2∑ ∑A P P E A R A N C E S:
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`∑4∑ ∑PAUL HASTINGS
`∑5∑ ∑Attorneys for Petitioner
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑875 15th Street, N.W.
`∑7∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Washington, DC 20005
`∑8∑ ∑BY:∑ DANIEL ZEILBERGER, ESQ.
`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ JOSEPH PALYS, ESQ.
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`11∑ ∑BUNSOW De MORY
`12∑ ∑Attorneys for Patent Owner
`13∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑701 El Camino Real
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Redwood City, CA 94063
`15∑ ∑BY:∑ CHRISTINA FINN, ESQ.
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ This is Christina, Christina Finn,
`∑3∑ ∑and I am the attorney for Virentem Ventures
`∑4∑ ∑in this matter.
`∑5∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MS. FINN:∑ Court reporter, would
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑you like us to enter our appearances?
`∑7∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑THE REPORTER:∑ Sure.
`∑8∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MS. FINN:∑ Christina Finn of Bunsow
`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑De Mory LLP on behalf of patent owner
`10∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Virentem Ventures, LLC.
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ Dan Zeilberger
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑here of Paul Hastings on behalf of
`13∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Petitioner Google, and I am joined by my
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑colleague Joseph Palys.
`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And Dr. Schonfeld, could you please
`16∑ ∑state and spell your full name for the
`17∑ ∑record?
`18∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Yes.∑ My name is Dan Schonfeld.
`19∑ ∑D-A-N is my first name.∑ Last name,
`20∑ ∑S-C-H-O-N-F-E-L-D.
`21∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And Mr., or Dr. Schonfeld, have you
`22∑ ∑ever been deposed before?
`23∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Yes, I have.
`24∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ How many times?
`25∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ It's difficult to count exactly,
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑but I would say, depending on how you count,
`∑3∑ ∑about 40.
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Okay.∑ What do you mean by
`∑5∑ ∑"depending on how you count"?
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ What do you count?∑ For example,
`∑7∑ ∑this one is a two-day deposition.∑ Do you
`∑8∑ ∑count it as one deposition or two separate
`∑9∑ ∑depositions, this type of thing.
`10∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ I see.∑ Thank you for that
`11∑ ∑clarification.
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Okay.∑ And have you ever had your
`13∑ ∑deposition taken remotely by phone or video?
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Yes, once, but not in exactly this
`15∑ ∑circumstance.
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Okay.∑ And have all of these
`17∑ ∑approximately 40 depositions been in the
`18∑ ∑context of an expert witness?
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Yes.
`20∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Okay.∑ Given that you have been
`21∑ ∑deposed so many times, I'm sure you
`22∑ ∑understand the ground rules then and have
`23∑ ∑gone over them with your attorneys, but I
`24∑ ∑just want to go over a few matters at the
`25∑ ∑beginning.
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I do.
`∑3∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And we will still take breaks today
`∑4∑ ∑periodically throughout the deposition, so if
`∑5∑ ∑you need to take a break, or if anyone else
`∑6∑ ∑on the phone needs to take a break, please
`∑7∑ ∑let me know, and so long as I am not in the
`∑8∑ ∑middle of a question or I am not in a series
`∑9∑ ∑of questions, then we can take a break as
`10∑ ∑needed.∑ Do you understand that?
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I do.∑ And actually, if you don't
`12∑ ∑mind, please allow me ten seconds to connect
`13∑ ∑to the headphones, because the sound comes
`14∑ ∑out muffled through the speaker.∑ One second.
`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Sure.
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Okay.∑ Thank you.
`17∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Okay.∑ And you -- is there any
`18∑ ∑reason why you cannot give your full,
`19∑ ∑complete, and truthful testimony this
`20∑ ∑morning?
`21∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Not that I'm aware of, no.
`22∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Have you ever testified in court
`23∑ ∑before?
`24∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Yes.
`25∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ How many times?
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑You understand that you are under
`∑3∑ ∑oath here today; correct?
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I do.
`∑5∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Okay.∑ And that even though we are
`∑6∑ ∑conducting this deposition via telephone
`∑7∑ ∑conference and remotely, that you are still
`∑8∑ ∑under the same obligation to provide truthful
`∑9∑ ∑responses that you would be if we were all in
`10∑ ∑the same location?
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I'm sorry.∑ You cut off at the end.
`12∑ ∑Could you repeat the last portion of your
`13∑ ∑question?
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Sure.
`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑You understand that your
`16∑ ∑obligations to provide truthful testimony are
`17∑ ∑the same as they would be if we were all in
`18∑ ∑the same location; correct?
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I do.
`20∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And the same rules will apply with
`21∑ ∑respect to conferring with your counsel
`22∑ ∑during the deposition.∑ You understand that
`23∑ ∑you may not confer with your counsel as to
`24∑ ∑the -- your responses to any of my questions
`25∑ ∑today; correct?
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Again, it depends on how you count,
`∑3∑ ∑but I would say, depending on how you count,
`∑4∑ ∑at least probably eight or nine times.
`∑5∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And how many -- for how many
`∑6∑ ∑different matters have you testified?∑ Is
`∑7∑ ∑that eight or nine?
`∑8∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Either eight or nine different
`∑9∑ ∑matters, that's correct.∑ Eight or nine
`10∑ ∑different matters at minimum, depending on
`11∑ ∑how you count.
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And have you ever testified in
`13∑ ∑court as an expert witness on behalf of
`14∑ ∑Google?
`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Yes, I have.
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ How many times?
`17∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I think at least once.∑ I think it
`18∑ ∑may be only once.
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ What matter was that?
`20∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ SimpleAir versus Google.
`21∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Could you spell the other party?
`22∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I'm doing it from memory, but I
`23∑ ∑believe it's SimpleAir, one word.∑ SIMPLEAIR.
`24∑ ∑I could be mistaken, but that is my
`25∑ ∑recollection.
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And when was that?
`∑3∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ Objection to form.
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I believe the trial was about
`∑5∑ ∑probably four years ago, and it's a rough
`∑6∑ ∑estimate.
`∑7∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And aside from the SimpleAir
`∑8∑ ∑matter, have you been an expert witness on
`∑9∑ ∑behalf of Google in any other matters prior
`10∑ ∑to the Virentem IPRs?
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Yes.
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ How many other matters have you
`13∑ ∑been an expert for Google on?
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ ∑I don't remember exactly.∑ Some of
`15∑ ∑them were very minor, some more extensive. I
`16∑ ∑would guess somewhere on the order of four or
`17∑ ∑five times.∑ It might be more.
`18∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Do you own any Google stock?
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Not that I'm aware of.∑ If I do,
`20∑ ∑it's probably through a mutual fund, but not
`21∑ ∑directly.
`22∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And just to make sure that the
`23∑ ∑record is clear, I believe it's now Alphabet.
`24∑ ∑So, do you own any Alphabet stock?
`25∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ The same response I just gave to
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑you are referring to if you refer to it as
`∑3∑ ∑the '108 matter.
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Okay.∑ Great.∑ Thank you.
`∑5∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑And we are also here today with
`∑6∑ ∑respect to IPR 2019-01241, which pertains to
`∑7∑ ∑U.S. Patent Number 7,683,903.∑ Is that your
`∑8∑ ∑understanding?
`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ It is.
`10∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And so, if I refer to that matter
`11∑ ∑at the '903 IPR, you will understand that I
`12∑ ∑am referring to the 1241 IPR?
`13∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Again, I don't have in front of me
`14∑ ∑the IPR numbers, but -- at least where I can
`15∑ ∑see them -- I would understand if you refer
`16∑ ∑to the '903 matter.
`17∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Finally, we are also here today
`18∑ ∑with respect to IPR 2019-01243 with respect
`19∑ ∑to U.S. Patent Number 9,785,400.∑ Is that
`20∑ ∑your understanding?
`21∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ It is.
`22∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And so, if I refer to that today as
`23∑ ∑the '400 patent IPR, you will understand what
`24∑ ∑I am referring to?
`25∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I will, yes.
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑Google would apply.
`∑3∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Dr. Schonfeld, you understand that
`∑4∑ ∑we are here today, that this is four separate
`∑5∑ ∑IPR matters; right?
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I do.∑ Correct.
`∑7∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And for the record, those are IPR
`∑8∑ ∑2019-01237, which pertains to U.S. Patent
`∑9∑ ∑8,345,050.∑ Do you understand that?
`10∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I do.
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And so, is it okay if we refer to
`12∑ ∑that matter today and any documents related
`13∑ ∑to it as the '050 matter?
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Sure.
`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And with respect to -- you are also
`16∑ ∑here today with respect to IPR 2019-01239,
`17∑ ∑which pertains to U.S. Patent Number
`18∑ ∑8,068,108.∑ Is that your understanding?
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ That's correct.
`20∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ So, if today I refer to that matter
`21∑ ∑as either the '108 patent matter or the 1239
`22∑ ∑IPR, will you understand what I am referring
`23∑ ∑to?
`24∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I would -- I may have to look up
`25∑ ∑the IPR number, but I would understand what
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And you mentioned that you have
`∑3∑ ∑been an expert on behalf of Google in a
`∑4∑ ∑number of matters prior to this one,
`∑5∑ ∑approximately four or five, maybe more.∑ Were
`∑6∑ ∑any of those in the context of IPR
`∑7∑ ∑proceedings?
`∑8∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I don't believe so.
`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ I'm going to
`10∑ ∑ ∑ ∑caution -- okay.
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑THE WITNESS:∑ I'm sorry.
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ Well, I will go
`13∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ahead and caution you that to the extent
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑you were going to continue, not to reveal
`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑the substance of any privileged or
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑confidential information that's subject
`17∑ ∑ ∑ ∑to those matters that might not be
`18∑ ∑ ∑ ∑related to this matter.∑ Subject to that,
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑please finish, if you weren't finished.
`20∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑THE WITNESS:∑ Okay.
`21∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Dr. Schonfeld, you said you don't
`22∑ ∑believe that any of the matters that you have
`23∑ ∑previously been engaged in on behalf of
`24∑ ∑Google have been with respect to IPRs; is
`25∑ ∑that right?
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ That is correct.∑ To the extent
`∑3∑ ∑there is any open matter and an IPR gets
`∑4∑ ∑involved in the future, I'm unaware of it at
`∑5∑ ∑this point.
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Other than the Virentem Ventures
`∑7∑ ∑IPRs, are there any other matters for which
`∑8∑ ∑you are currently engaged as an expert on
`∑9∑ ∑behalf of Google?∑ And all I am seeking here
`10∑ ∑is a yes or a no.
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Yes.
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Yes?
`13∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Yes.
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ How many other matters are you
`15∑ ∑engaged in as an expert on behalf of Google?
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Two matters.
`17∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ What are those matters?
`18∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ I'm going to again
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑caution Dr. Schonfeld not to reveal the
`20∑ ∑ ∑ ∑substance of any privileged
`21∑ ∑ ∑ ∑communications, and also, to the extent
`22∑ ∑ ∑ ∑answering this question requires him to
`23∑ ∑ ∑ ∑reveal any confidential information or
`24∑ ∑ ∑ ∑any confidentiality obligations he may
`25∑ ∑ ∑ ∑have, I will just simply remind him of
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑have to talk to -- to counsel that I work
`∑3∑ ∑with on that matter to seek their permission
`∑4∑ ∑and advice.∑ My retention agreement
`∑5∑ ∑specifically prohibits me from discussing
`∑6∑ ∑that matter until I am allowed to.
`∑7∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ In the Google versus PMC
`∑8∑ ∑litigation, have you provided any expert
`∑9∑ ∑reports in that matter yet?
`10∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ No.
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ I'll provide
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Dr. Schonfeld the same caution that I
`13∑ ∑ ∑ ∑have been providing.
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MS. FINN:∑ I'm just looking for a
`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑yes or no, Counsel.
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Dr. Schonfeld, have you provided an
`17∑ ∑expert report, has an expert report been
`18∑ ∑submitted in that litigation from you yet?
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ No.
`20∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And in that litigation, is PMC the
`21∑ ∑patent holder?
`22∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Yes.
`23∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ When were you first retained in
`24∑ ∑that matter?
`25∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I don't recall it, and I am not
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑that.
`∑3∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑THE WITNESS:∑ Okay.
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Dr. Schonfeld, can you answer the
`∑5∑ ∑question?
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Yeah.∑ Yes.∑ One of those matters
`∑7∑ ∑involves a litigation versus a company by the
`∑8∑ ∑name of Personal Media Communications.
`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Okay.
`10∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ And the other matter I have not
`11∑ ∑performed any work for and I am not -- at
`12∑ ∑this point, my understanding is that I am not
`13∑ ∑allowed to disclose it.
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Is it a District Court litigation
`15∑ ∑or an IPR?
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ I'm going to
`17∑ ∑ ∑ ∑provide, Dr. Schonfeld, the same caution
`18∑ ∑ ∑ ∑I did before as to privilege and
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑confidentiality.
`20∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ My understanding is that I am not
`21∑ ∑allowed to discuss that matter at this point
`22∑ ∑in time.
`23∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ You can't even tell me whether it's
`24∑ ∑District Court litigation or IPR?
`25∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I might be allowed to, but I would
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑sure that I am allowed to go beyond what I
`∑3∑ ∑went into without discussing this with
`∑4∑ ∑counsel, so, the answer is, I'm not sure, but
`∑5∑ ∑even if I were, I'm not sure I would be
`∑6∑ ∑allowed to disclose it.
`∑7∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Can you tell me if it was before or
`∑8∑ ∑after you were retained in this IPR matter?
`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ I am going to
`10∑ ∑ ∑ ∑provide Dr. Schonfeld the same caution I
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑have been providing him.
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ ∑ I don't recall.∑ As I said
`13∑ ∑before, even if I did recall, I'm not sure
`14∑ ∑that I would be allowed to disclose the
`15∑ ∑details of my engagement in that separate
`16∑ ∑matter.
`17∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Dr. Schonfeld, you are being paid
`18∑ ∑as an expert in these four IPRs that we are
`19∑ ∑here -- that this deposition is about;
`20∑ ∑correct?
`21∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I am, yes.
`22∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Okay.∑ And how much are you being
`23∑ ∑paid?
`24∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I am -- I think in this case it's
`25∑ ∑my -- it was -- I signed under my previous
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑rates.∑ I think it's 550 an hour.∑ I would
`∑3∑ ∑have to go back and check that.
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And how much, or how many hours
`∑5∑ ∑have you worked on these four IPRs to date?
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I don't know.
`∑7∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Can you give me an approximation?
`∑8∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I really don't know.∑ I know it was
`∑9∑ ∑at least 50 hours, but I don't know the
`10∑ ∑exact -- the exact amount of time.
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ At least 50, five zero?
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ At the very minimum.∑ I don't know
`13∑ ∑the exact amount of time.∑ Maybe much more.
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ What would you do to figure out how
`15∑ ∑much time you've spent on these IPRs?
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I guess I would have to review
`17∑ ∑invoices.
`18∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ What did you do to prepare for your
`19∑ ∑deposition today?
`20∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ I'm going to
`21∑ ∑ ∑ ∑caution Dr. Schonfeld not to reveal the
`22∑ ∑ ∑ ∑substance of any privileged
`23∑ ∑ ∑ ∑communications.∑ Subject to that, you may
`24∑ ∑ ∑ ∑answer.
`25∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I met with counsel and reviewed
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ What do you mean by "not just by
`∑3∑ ∑phone"?
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Using video conference and a
`∑5∑ ∑computer.
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Approximately how long were each of
`∑7∑ ∑those video conference meetings?
`∑8∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ They varied.∑ Some were shorter and
`∑9∑ ∑some were longer.
`10∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Okay.∑ How long was the shortest
`11∑ ∑call?
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I believe the very shortest was a
`13∑ ∑few minutes, but I don't remember exactly.
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And how long was the longest call?
`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I believe five hours.
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Were there other calls that were
`17∑ ∑around five hours as well, or just one?
`18∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ Objection, form.
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ There were similar length calls a
`20∑ ∑few times.
`21∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And you mentioned that you also
`22∑ ∑reviewed documents in preparation for your
`23∑ ∑deposition today.∑ What documents did you
`24∑ ∑review?
`25∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ My declarations, the patents, the
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`∑2∑ ∑documents.
`∑3∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Who did you meet with specifically?
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ With the two attorneys that are on
`∑5∑ ∑the call right now, on this deposition, Dan
`∑6∑ ∑Zeilberger and Joe Palys, and I believe it's
`∑7∑ ∑Howard Herr or Terr.∑ I don't recall.
`∑8∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And how long did you meet with
`∑9∑ ∑counsel in preparation for your deposition
`10∑ ∑today?
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I don't know the amount of time. I
`12∑ ∑have no idea.
`13∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ You have no idea?
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ No, because it was not done -- it
`15∑ ∑was scattered over at least a couple of
`16∑ ∑weeks.
`17∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ How many times approximately did
`18∑ ∑you meet with counsel in preparation for your
`19∑ ∑deposition today?
`20∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ Objection, form.
`21∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I don't remember exactly, but
`22∑ ∑probably at least five or six phone calls.
`23∑ ∑When I say phone calls, I should say not
`24∑ ∑phone calls but communications, not just by
`25∑ ∑phone.
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑prior art.∑ Those are the main ones that I --
`∑3∑ ∑that I recall.
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Have you reviewed the institution
`∑5∑ ∑decisions in any of the four matters that we
`∑6∑ ∑are here with respect to today, the '903, the
`∑7∑ ∑'400, the '108, and the '050?
`∑8∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ No.
`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Have you reviewed -- have you ever
`10∑ ∑reviewed the petition for the '050 IPR?
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ No.
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Have you ever reviewed the petition
`13∑ ∑for the '108 IPR?
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Not that I recall, no.
`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Have you ever reviewed the petition
`16∑ ∑for the '400 IPR?
`17∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Not that I recall.
`18∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Have you ever reviewed the petition
`19∑ ∑for the '903 IPR?
`20∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Again, not that I recall.
`21∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And have you reviewed the
`22∑ ∑petitioner's -- or I'm sorry -- the patent
`23∑ ∑owner's preliminary response in the '050 IPR?
`24∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ No.
`25∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Have you reviewed the patent
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑owner's preliminary response in the '108 IPR?
`∑3∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ No.
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Have you reviewed the patent
`∑5∑ ∑owner's response in the '400 IPR?
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ No.
`∑7∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Have you reviewed the patent
`∑8∑ ∑owner's response, preliminary response, in
`∑9∑ ∑the '903 IPR?
`10∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ No.
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And what is your understanding of
`12∑ ∑the relationship between the '050, '108, '400
`13∑ ∑and '903 patents?
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ Objection, form.
`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I'm not sure exactly what you mean
`16∑ ∑by "the relationship."
`17∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Well, from your perspective, is
`18∑ ∑there a relationship at all between the four
`19∑ ∑patents about which you are testifying today?
`20∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Yeah.∑ My understanding is that the
`21∑ ∑specification for the four patents is
`22∑ ∑substantively similar or very close to each
`23∑ ∑other.∑ I don't know if that answers your
`24∑ ∑question, if that's what you meant by "the
`25∑ ∑relationship."
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑ever heard of Richard Goldhor?
`∑3∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I don't believe so.
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And prior to your engagement as an
`∑5∑ ∑expert in these matters, had you ever heard
`∑6∑ ∑of Edward Bianchi?
`∑7∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Again, I don't believe so.
`∑8∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Have you ever heard of a Daubert
`∑9∑ ∑motion?
`10∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Yes.
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ Objection, form,
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑scope.
`13∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Have you ever been the subject
`14∑ ∑of -- have any of your expert reports been
`15∑ ∑subject to a Daubert motion before?
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I believe there was one attempt in
`17∑ ∑the form of a Daubert, which was essentially
`18∑ ∑a motion in limine to say that my opinion was
`19∑ ∑not included in the contentions, but that was
`20∑ ∑never ruled on, because the case settled
`21∑ ∑immediately after.
`22∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ So, we are talking about four
`23∑ ∑different IPRs here today; correct?
`24∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ That's correct.
`25∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And you submitted a declaration in
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Prior to your engagement as an
`∑3∑ ∑expert for these IPRs, have you -- had you
`∑4∑ ∑ever heard of Virentem Ventures, LLC?
`∑5∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ No.
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ What about Enounce?
`∑7∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ Objection, form.
`∑8∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Can you repeat it, please?
`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Prior to your engagement as an
`10∑ ∑expert for these IPRs, had you ever heard of
`11∑ ∑Enounce?
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Can you spell it?∑ I can barely
`13∑ ∑hear it.
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Sure.∑ E-N-O-U-N-C-E.
`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I don't believe so.
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Have you ever heard of Don Hejna?
`17∑ ∑The last name is spelled H-E-J-N-A.
`18∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I don't believe so.
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And you understand that the named
`20∑ ∑inventors of the '903, '400, '108, and '050
`21∑ ∑patents are Richard Goldhor and Edward
`22∑ ∑Bianchi.∑ Do you understand that?
`23∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I do.
`24∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And prior to your engagement as an
`25∑ ∑expert in these matters, these IPRs, had you
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑support of the petition in each of those four
`∑3∑ ∑IPRs, for the '400, the '108, the '050, and
`∑4∑ ∑the '903; is that correct?
`∑5∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ Objection.
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ That is correct.
`∑7∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Let me just -- let me just say
`∑8∑ ∑that, I don't know if it's the connection on
`∑9∑ ∑my side, but your voice began to break up, so
`10∑ ∑could you repeat the question once again,
`11∑ ∑please?
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Sure.
`13∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑You submitted a declaration in
`14∑ ∑support of the petition for the '050 patent;
`15∑ ∑correct?
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ Same objection.
`17∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑And Christina, I will just note
`18∑ ∑ ∑ ∑that I am having the same problem hearing
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑you.∑ I understand you, but it's a little
`20∑ ∑ ∑ ∑choppy.
`21∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MS. FINN:∑ Okay.∑ Well, I'm using a
`22∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Polycom phone, so I don't know what I can
`23∑ ∑ ∑ ∑do about that.
`24∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Okay.∑ So, Dr. Schonfeld, did you
`25∑ ∑submit a declaration in support of Google's
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑petition for inter partes review for the '050
`∑3∑ ∑patent?
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I submitted a declaration related
`∑5∑ ∑to the '050 patent.
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And, Dr. Schonfeld, did you submit
`∑7∑ ∑a declaration in support of Google's petition
`∑8∑ ∑for inter partes review for the '400 patent?
`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Again, I submitted a declaration
`10∑ ∑related to the '400 patent.
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And did you also submit a
`12∑ ∑declaration in support of Google's petition
`13∑ ∑for inter partes review for the '108 patent?
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Yeah, again, I submitted a
`15∑ ∑declaration related to the '108 patent.
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And did you also submit a petition
`17∑ ∑in support of Google's petition -- I'm sorry.
`18∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Did you also submit a declaration
`19∑ ∑in support of Google's petition for inter
`20∑ ∑partes review for the '903 patent?
`21∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Once again, I submitted a
`22∑ ∑declaration related to the '903 patent.
`23∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑And I just note that your voice
`24∑ ∑keeps on breaking, so, with these questions,
`25∑ ∑I -- I can understand what you are saying,
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I don't know whether you want -- I
`∑3∑ ∑don't know if you want me to check.
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Well, I am just trying to
`∑5∑ ∑understand if you -- you know, when I ask you
`∑6∑ ∑a question about something in your
`∑7∑ ∑declaration, if you can just refer to the
`∑8∑ ∑'050 declaration for purposes of the
`∑9∑ ∑background and qualifications, summary of
`10∑ ∑opinions -- strike that.
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑If we can refer to the '050
`12∑ ∑declaration for background and
`13∑ ∑qualifications, person of ordinary skill in
`14∑ ∑the art, technical background, would you
`15∑ ∑agree that that would cover your opinions and
`16∑ ∑what is in your declaration for all four
`17∑ ∑declarations?
`18∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ Objection, form.
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I mean, my declarations, to the
`20∑ ∑extent there is any difference in them, then
`21∑ ∑the answer would be no.∑ To the extent that
`22∑ ∑they are identical in those sections, the
`23∑ ∑answer would be yes.
`24∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑I will be happy to follow whatever
`25∑ ∑procedure you prefer.
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`∑2∑ ∑but more complex questions, it might be a
`∑3∑ ∑little harder.
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Okay.
`∑5∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MS. FINN:∑ Is everyone on the line
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑having that problem?
`∑7∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Can we go off the record?
`∑8∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ Sure.
`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑(Discussion held off the record.)
`10∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MS. FINN:∑ Okay.∑ So, going back on
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑the record.
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Dr. Schonfeld, you have submitted
`13∑ ∑four declarations regarding these four
`14∑ ∑different patents, but there are some --
`15∑ ∑there is substantial overlap for each of the
`16∑ ∑four declarations.∑ Would you agree with
`17∑ ∑that?
`18∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ Objection, form.
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ They relate to similar claims and
`20∑ ∑similar specifications, yes.
`21∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Would you agree that your
`22∑ ∑background and qualifications in each of the
`23∑ ∑four declarations are the same?
`24∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I would have to go back and check.
`25∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Okay.
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Okay.∑ Let's turn to -- start with
`∑3∑ ∑Google Exhibit 1002, which is the '050
`∑4∑ ∑proceeding.
`∑5∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Dr. Schonfeld, do you see Google
`∑6∑ ∑Exhibit 1002 to the '050 patent on your
`∑7∑ ∑screen?
`∑8∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I do.
`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And do you recognize this as your
`10∑ ∑declaration in the '050 IPR?
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I recognize it as the front page of
`12∑ ∑that document.
`13∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Can you not see the rest of the
`14∑ ∑document?
`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ No.
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ No, you can't?
`17∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I don't believe I have the option
`18∑ ∑to control the document.
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ I'm going to go ahead and mark
`20∑ ∑this -- sorry.∑ Go ahead.
`21∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ And just as a point of
`22∑ ∑clarification, I have a hard copy of the
`23∑ ∑same, of what -- of the actual document, a
`24∑ ∑hard-copy version in front of me, so I can
`25∑ ∑refer to that if you prefer.
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`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Well, you can -- I mean, you can
`∑3∑ ∑refer to it as we are going through, if you
`∑4∑ ∑would like.
`∑5∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MS. FINN:∑ I'm going to go ahead
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑and mark this exhibit.∑ We will go ahead
`∑7∑ ∑ ∑ ∑and use the exhibit numbers from the IPRs
`∑8∑ ∑ ∑ ∑themselves, if that's okay with counsel.
`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ I guess I'm not
`10∑ ∑ ∑ ∑sure of the question.∑ The exhibit itself
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑is already marked.∑ I don't think it
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑would be proper to mark it as a different
`13∑ ∑ ∑ ∑exhibit than it is already marked as.
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MS. FINN:∑ Well, I think that it
`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑needs to be -- I believe it has to be
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑marked in order to be submitted.∑ But I
`17∑ ∑ ∑ ∑can try to submit it without marking it.
`18∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Okay.
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Dr. Schonfeld, can you now view the
`20∑ ∑rest of the document other than the first
`21∑ ∑page?
`22∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ If I am not mistaken, I do not have
`23∑ ∑control over the document.∑ I can see it
`24∑ ∑flashing in front of me to the table of
`25∑ ∑contents and now back to the front page, but
`
`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑ ∑ ∑for the first time, and, Christina, if
`∑3∑ ∑ ∑ ∑you can make a representation that this
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑is Exhibit 1002 as it was submitted, I
`∑5∑ ∑ ∑ ∑think that would be helpful.∑ Otherwise,
`∑6∑ ∑ ∑ ∑I would need to go through every single
`∑7∑ ∑ ∑ ∑page to confirm whether there is an
`∑8∑ ∑ ∑ ∑objection to this exhibit or not.
`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MS. FINN:∑ I mean, I think it is
`10∑ ∑ ∑ ∑the same as you would be doing it on
`11∑ ∑ ∑ ∑paper.
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ Well, it's not,
`13∑ ∑ ∑ ∑because with paper, I can go through the
`14∑ ∑ ∑ ∑pages much faster than flipping through
`15∑ ∑ ∑ ∑every page of a PDF.
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MS. FINN:∑ Well, this is the
`17∑ ∑ ∑ ∑document that was submitted -- that was
`18∑ ∑ ∑ ∑served to us with the -- with the IPRs.
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ Okay.
`20∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Okay.∑ So, Dr. Schonfeld, turning
`21∑ ∑to the person of ordinary skill in the art,
`22∑ ∑page nine of your declaration.
`23∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Do you see that on the screen?
`24∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I do.
`25∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ And what -- what factors did you
`
`Page 30
`
`Page 32
`
`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑I do not believe I have control over it.
`∑3∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑(Pause.)
`∑4∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ I believe I have now given
`∑5∑ ∑Dr. Schonfeld access to -- there we go.
`∑6∑ ∑Great.
`∑7∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ Yeah, I do have control over it
`∑8∑ ∑now.∑ Thank you.
`∑9∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Okay.∑ And can you confirm that
`10∑ ∑this Exhibit 1002 to the '050 IPR is the same
`11∑ ∑as you have in hard copy in front of you?
`12∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I would have to peruse every page.
`13∑ ∑Is that what you want me to do, or just
`14∑ ∑indicate generally it appears to be my
`15∑ ∑document?
`16∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ I guess, generally, do you have any
`17∑ ∑reason to believe that it is not the same as
`18∑ ∑the one that you have in hard copy?
`19∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ Object to form.
`20∑ ∑ ∑ ∑Q.∑ ∑ Are you able to answer the
`21∑ ∑question?
`22∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ I said I do not.∑ I'm sorry.
`23∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑MR. ZEILBERGER:∑ I want to object
`24∑ ∑ ∑ ∑to form, and I will also note for the
`25∑ ∑ ∑ ∑record that we are just seeing this PDF
`
`∑1∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ ∑ D. Schonfeld
`∑2∑ ∑consider in determining the appropriate level
`∑3∑ ∑of ordinary skill in the art at the time of
`∑4∑ ∑the alleged invention of the '050 patent?
`∑5∑ ∑ ∑ ∑A.∑ ∑ It was indicated in paragraph 19
`∑6∑ ∑and 20 of my declaration.∑ I looked to a
`∑7∑ ∑person of ordinary skill in the art at the
`∑8∑ ∑time of the alleged invention, and looked at
`∑9∑ ∑the type of problems that