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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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` - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
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` LIQUIDIA TECHNOLOGIES, INC. :
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` Petitioner :
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` vs. : IPR2020-0070
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` UNITED THERAPEUTICS : U.S. Patent No.
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` CORPORATION : 9,604,901
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` Patent Owner :
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` - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
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` VIRTUAL VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF: RODOLFO PINAL, Ph.D.
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` DATE: Wednesday, February 10, 2021
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` TIME: 11:09 a.m.
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` LOCATION: Remote Proceedings
`
` REPORTED BY: Denise M. Brunet, RPR
`
` Reporter/Notary
`
` Veritext Legal Solutions
`
` 1250 Eye Street, N.W., Suite 350
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` Washington, D.C. 20005
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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` - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
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` LIQUIDIA TECHNOLOGIES, INC. :
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` Petitioner :
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` vs. : IPR2020-0070
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` UNITED THERAPEUTICS : U.S. Patent No.
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` CORPORATION : 9,604,901
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` Patent Owner :
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` - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
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` VIRTUAL VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF: RODOLFO PINAL, Ph.D.
`
` DATE: Wednesday, February 10, 2021
`
` TIME: 11:09 a.m.
`
` LOCATION: Remote Proceedings
`
` REPORTED BY: Denise M. Brunet, RPR
`
` Reporter/Notary
`
` Veritext Legal Solutions
`
` 1250 Eye Street, N.W., Suite 350
`
` Washington, D.C. 20005
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 1
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`
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
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`Page 2
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` On behalf of Liquidia Technologies:
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` DEEPA KANNAPPAN, ESQUIRE
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` Cooley, LLP
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` 3175 Hanover Street
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` Palo Alto, California 94304
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` (650) 843-5673
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` dkannappan@cooley.com
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` SANYA SUKDUANG, ESQUIRE
`
` DOUGLAS CHEEK, ESQUIRE
`
` Cooley, LLP
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` 1299 Pennsylvania Avenue, Northwest
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` Washington, D.C. 20004
`
` (202) 776-2982
`
` ssukduang@cooley.com
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` (Appearances continued on the next page.)
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`IPR2020-00770
`Page 2
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` A P P E A R A N C E S ( c o n t i n u e d ) :
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` O n b e h a l f o f U n i t e d T h e r a p e u t i c s C o r p o r a t i o n :
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` R I C H A R D T O R C Z O N , E S Q U I R E
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` D O U G C A R S T E N , E S Q U I R E
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` W i l s o n S o n s i n i
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` 1 7 0 0 K S t r e e t , N o r t h w e s t
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` W a s h i n g t o n , D . C . 2 0 0 0 6
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` ( 2 0 2 ) 9 7 3 - 8 8 1 1
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` r t o r c z o n @ w s g r . c o m
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` D A N I E L R . S H E L T O N , E S Q U I R E
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` F o l e y & L a r d n e r , L L P
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` 9 7 5 P a g e M i l l R o a d
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` P a l o A l t o , C a l i f o r n i a 9 4 3 0 4
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` ( 6 5 0 ) 2 5 1 - 1 1 1 9
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` A L S O P R E S E N T : J e f f r e y W i n k l e r
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` G r a c e W i n s c h e l
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` S a m u e l F r a n c i s , V i d e o g r a p h e r
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` J o s h H o e p p n e r , C o n c i e r g e
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` ( A l l p a r t i e s a p p e a r i n g r e m o t e l y . )
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 3
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`
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` C O N T E N T S
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` EXAMINATION BY: PAGE
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` Counsel for Petitioner 6
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`Page 4
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` DEPOSITION EXHIBITS: MARKED
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` 2025 - Pinal declaration 32
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` 1001 - U.S. patent 9,604,901 52
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` 1005 - Decision in SteadyMed v. UTC 128
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` (Exhibits attached to transcript.)
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 4
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. We're
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` going on the record at 11:09 a.m. on
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` February 10th, 2021. This is the remote
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` video-recorded deposition of Dr. Rodolfo Pinal
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` taken in the matter of Liquidia Technologies,
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` Inc., petitioner, versus United Therapeutics
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` Corp., patent owner, filed in the United States
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` Patent and Trademark Office, before the Patent
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` Trial and Appeal Board, IPR number 2020-00770.
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` My name is Samuel Francis from the firm
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` Veritext Legal Solutions. The court reporter is
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` Ms. Denise Brunet from the firm Veritext Legal
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` Solutions.
`
` Will counsel please state their
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` appearances and affiliations for the record.
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` MS. KANNAPPAN: This is Deepa Kannappan
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` from Cooley, LLP on behalf of petitioner Liquidia
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` Technologies. With me are Sanya Sukduang and
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` Douglas Cheek, also of Cooley, LLP. And possibly
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` joining is our expert, Dr. Jeffrey Winkler.
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` MR. TORCZON: And this is Richard Torczon
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 5
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`
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` of Wilson Sonsini representing United
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` Therapeutics. With me on the line is Grace
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` Winschel, also of Wilson Sonsini, and Dan Shelton
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`Page 6
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` from Foley.
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the court
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` reporter please swear in the witness.
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` WHEREUPON,
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` RODOLFO PINAL, Ph.D.
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` called as a witness, and having been remotely
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` sworn by the notary public, was examined and
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` testified as follows:
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: You may proceed,
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` Counsel.
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` EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR PETITIONER
`
` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
`
` Q Good morning. Can you please state your
`
` name for the record.
`
` A Good morning. My name is Rodolfo Pinal.
`
` R-O-D-O-L-F-O, P-I-N-A-L.
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` Q And where do you presently reside,
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` Dr. Pinal?
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` A I reside in West Lafayette, Indiana.
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 6
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` Q Is that where you are currently?
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` A Correct.
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` Q What's your business address?
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` A 575 Stadium Mall Drive, West Lafayette,
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` Indiana, 47907.
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` Q Are you taking this deposition from your
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` business address?
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` A The same campus, but in a different
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` building.
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` Q And what's your current position
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` employment-wise?
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` A I am associate professor of industrial
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` and physical pharmacy.
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` Q Are you a professor at a particular
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` university?
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` A At Purdue University, correct.
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` Q Do you understand that you just took an
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` oath to tell the truth today?
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` A I do.
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` Q Is there any reason why you can't provide
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` truthful testimony here today?
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` A No, there is no reason.
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 7
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` Q You're not on any medication or anything
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` else that could affect the truthfulness of your
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`Page 8
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` testimony?
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` A I am not.
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` Q Have you been deposed before, Dr. Pinal?
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` A Yes, I have.
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` Q How many times have you been deposed?
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` A More than ten times.
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` Q When was the most recent time?
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` A If I believe -- if I remember correctly,
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` must have been 2019, possibly 2018.
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` Q What was the subject matter of that case?
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` A It was a patent case involving a
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` pharmaceutical product.
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` Q Do you remember what the technology of
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` that pharmaceutical product was?
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` A In general terms, it was technology
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` related to an injectable product used for treating
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` cancer.
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` Q Was the patent about a specific product
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` or was it about the method of administration?
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` MR. TORCZON: Object to form.
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 8
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`
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` THE WITNESS: The very last deposition
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` that I had, I cannot recall exactly, but I believe
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` this was not on the method of use but an actual
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`Page 9
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` product itself.
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` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
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` Q So you said earlier that you've been
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` deposed more than ten times. How many of those
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` depositions related to patent cases?
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` A All of them.
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` Q When was the earliest that you served as
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` an expert witness for a patent case?
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` A It was in 2013.
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` Q So is it accurate to say that all of your
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` depositions have happened between 2013 and 2019
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` except for this one?
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` A Correct.
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` Q Just some ground rules before we
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` continue, just about remote depositions, because
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` they're a little different from in-person
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` depositions. It's really important, as the court
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` reporter was saying earlier, that you wait for me
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` to completely finish my question before you
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 9
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` answer, and I will do the same while you finish
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` answering so that we don't talk over each other.
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` And as already happened, your counsel may
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` object to any of my questions. You should go
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` ahead and answer the question anyway unless your
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` counsel specifically instructs you not to answer
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` the question. Does that make sense?
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` A I understand.
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` Q I'll also try to take a break every hour
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` or so, and then around lunch time for you, and not
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` on my time zone, but please let me know if you
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` need a break at any time. Does that sound okay?
`
` A Thank you.
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` Q Dr. Pinal, have you ever provided
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` testimony in an inter partes review proceeding?
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` A Yes, to the extent of providing a
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` declaration and nothing further than that.
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` Q So you've never been deposed in an
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` inter partes review before?
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` A I have not.
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` Q Have you submitted a declaration in more
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` than one inter partes review proceeding outside of
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
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` this one?
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` A I have provided only one declaration in
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` an inter partes proceeding prior to my work on
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` this specific case.
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` Q What was the subject matter of that one
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` prior inter partes review proceeding that you
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` submitted a declaration for?
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` A The subject matter was on a formulation
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` for a product that was administered buccally.
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` (Discussion held off the record.)
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` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
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` Q Do you remember what type of product that
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` was?
`
` A I do.
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` Q What type of product was it?
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` A It was a thin film that was placed in the
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` mouth.
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` Q How long ago did you submit this
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` declaration in that inter partes review?
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` A Approximately four years ago.
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` Q Do you know if that inter partes review
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` resulted in a final decision?
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
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` A I don't know the final outcome of that
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` proceeding.
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` Q Do you understand that you're here today
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` to provide testimony in relation to the two
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` declarations you filed in the inter partes review
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` proceeding between Liquidia Technologies and
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` United Therapeutics Corporation regarding U.S.
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` patent number 9,604,901?
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` A That is my understanding.
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` Q And just to confirm, you understand that
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` you filed two declarations in this proceeding,
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` which I'll refer to as Exhibit 2002 and 2025; is
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` that right?
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` A The last digit number 2 and 25 are what I
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` have in mind at this moment.
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` Q Okay. In brief, could you summarize the
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` differences between your two declarations?
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` A The first declaration involved two
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` patents which have similar -- well, they share
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` the -- well, there is a legal term. The first
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` part of the patent which is not the claims.
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` Q The specification.
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 12
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`Page 13
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` A The specification. Thank you. They
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` share the specification and they have different
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` claims.
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` The subject that I have been asked to
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` provide opinions for today's deposition focused on
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` the '901 patent and the claims in that patent
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` which were covered also in my first declaration.
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` Q So would it be fair to say that your
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` second declaration is consistent with your first
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` one for the '901 patent, at least?
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` A The technical and scientific principles
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` of my first declaration and second declaration are
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` shared between the two. The second declaration, I
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` prepared it with additional evidence that was not
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` available to me at the time of writing my first
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` declaration.
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` Q What additional evidence are you
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` referring to?
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` A For example, I had information regarding
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` the testimony from Dr. Winkler I think that was
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` not available to me at the time of writing my
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` first declaration.
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 13
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`Page 14
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` Q Do you mean the deposition testimony of
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` Dr. Winkler?
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` A The deposition testimony of Dr. Winkler
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` is evidence that I did not have available to me at
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` the time I wrote my first declaration.
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` Q So other than the deposition testimony of
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` Dr. Winkler, is there any additional evidence that
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` you relied on in your second declaration, but not
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` in your first?
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` A Here's -- I am not a lawyer. All the
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` materials that I considered in forming my opinions
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` from my second declaration are listed in my
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` declaration. So they include technical reports
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` and technical writing.
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` In a technical sense -- and I don't want
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` to use the word if I don't know properly how to
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` use it -- I don't know if those are evidence or
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` not, but I will use my own words in answering your
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` question. I considered some technical materials
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` in addition to technical material that I
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` considered at the time of my first declaration.
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` Q Why did you consider additional technical
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`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 14
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`Page 15
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` materials in your second declaration, but not your
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` first?
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` A The first declaration involved two
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` patents. And the commonalities in terms of
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` technical argument between the two, some of them
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` were shared; some of them were not necessarily
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` shared. And the first declaration had, in terms
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` of space, if you will, devoted to it, was slightly
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` higher for the non-'901 patent than for the '901
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` patent.
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` On my second declaration, the focus is
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` exclusively the '901 patent with the -- access to
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` the testimony from Dr. Winkler and, in considering
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` that new information or testimony, that guided me
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` to find technical information that would help me
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` in forming my opinions.
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` Q Is it fair to say, then, that your second
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` declaration is your full opinion on the '901
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` patent?
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` MR. TORCZON: Objection. Asked and
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` answered. Objection. Form and foundation.
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` THE WITNESS: My second declaration
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 15
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` captures the -- my opinions as they were based on
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` the information that I had and the time that I had
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` to prepare them at the time when I signed that
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`Page 16
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` document.
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` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
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` Q My question was a little different,
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` Dr. Pinal. I'm just trying to figure out if
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` that's, like, your complete universe of opinions.
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` Is the second declaration the most complete form
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` of your opinions on the '901 patent?
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` MR. TORCZON: Objection. Form. Asked
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` and answered.
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` THE WITNESS: As I mentioned, the
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` opinions as expressed in my second declaration
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` capture the contents of my opinions as they were
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` at the time of signing that document.
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` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
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` Q So they include your opinions before that
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` date as well; is that accurate?
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` MR. TORCZON: Objection. Misstates.
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` THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, I -- I don't
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` think I understand your question.
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 16
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` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
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` Q Sure. I'm just trying to figure out if
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` the pieces of your first declaration that were
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` about the '901 patent were included in your second
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` declaration so that we can treat your second
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` declaration as the universe of your opinions going
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` forward. Is that accurate?
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` A No, that is not accurate.
`
` Q So what was in your first declaration
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` that's not in your second declaration related to
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` the '901 patent?
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` A The point that is important is that, in
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` your question, pieces of -- you referred to
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` something like pieces. An opinion is not like
`
` made out of Lego pieces that you put together to
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` create something. It is a concept that gets
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` strengthened as information and consideration
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` takes place.
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` So when I referred to my first -- my
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` opinions in my first declaration having the same
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` technical principles as my second declaration --
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` referred to that -- to the fundamental concepts
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
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` but not necessarily as being fixed pieces.
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` I have to connect my computer because
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` it's giving me some trouble. Hold on. I have it
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` connected throughout, but it's telling me that
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` my -- and I apologize for this. It's telling me
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` that my battery is running low.
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` MS. KANNAPPAN: Can we go off the record
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` just for a minute?
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Please stand by. The
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` time is 11:27 a.m. We're going off the record.
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` (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 11:29 a.m.
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` We are going back on the record.
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` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
`
` Q Dr. Pinal, were you finished answering
`
` the previous question?
`
` A I'm not sure, so let me just try to pick
`
` up where I recall I left.
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` What I was saying was that the opinions
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` are not small pieces that go -- so like in a --
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` some structure that you build. Opinions are the
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` result of a connection between different concepts
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
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`Page 19
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` and scientific principles, and they evolve. So
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` even though the core of an opinion can be
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` unchanged, the details and the specifics can get
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` enriched by additional information and
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` consideration.
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` Q So sitting here -- I'm sorry. Go ahead.
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` A This touches on your question that you
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` asked me if the pieces or something -- I'm
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` paraphrasing here -- the items or pieces of
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` opinion, if they were the same. They are
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` conceptually the same. They may not be
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` articulated in exactly the same way.
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` Q So to the extent there are differences
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` between your first and second declaration, which
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` declaration is the most current version of your
`
` opinion?
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` A Well, I will answer that literally. The
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` most current is the second one by virtue of it
`
` being the most recent.
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` Q And do you have any reason to believe
`
` that there were any errors in your second
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` declaration, sitting here today?
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`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
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` A In terms of the concepts presented, I do
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` not have a reason to believe that there were
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` errors. There may have been some typographical
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` errors or things of that sort, but not that I can
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` think of that pertain to the actual concepts being
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` presented.
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` Q So there's no specific typographical
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` errors or any other errors that you have caught in
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` your review since filing that declaration; is that
`
` accurate?
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` A Not changes that I would consider would
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` be substantial corrections to my opinion, and
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` specifically to the concepts being presented. I
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` may have thought about perhaps better ways in
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` terms of more clarity on how to present the
`
` concept, but not corrections in the sense that I
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` find that something is wrong conceptually, perhaps
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` typographically or something of that sort.
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` Q Do you have specific errors that you're
`
` thinking of right now?
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` A I do not have specific errors that I'm
`
` thinking of right now.
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`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 20
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`Page 21
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` Q Dr. Pinal, what did you do to prepare to
`
` testify today?
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` A I met with Mr. Torczon and Ms. Winschel
`
` and also with -- for some time with Mr. Shelton.
`
` Q How long in total did you meet with
`
` Mr. Torczon, Dr. Winschel and Mr. Shelton?
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` A With Mr. Torczon and Dr. Winschel, I met
`
` for about one full day and about half a day.
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` With -- Mr. Shelton was shorter, maybe a quarter
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` of a day.
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` Q Did you review any documents in preparing
`
` to testify today?
`
` A I reviewed the exhibits of my declaration
`
` and my declaration.
`
` Q Which declaration are you referring to?
`
` A My two declarations, and I focused
`
` primarily on my most recent declaration, which is
`
` the second declaration, and which focuses
`
` exclusively on the '901 patent.
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` Q Did you review any documents that were
`
` not exhibits to your declarations?
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` A I did not. The information that I had
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`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 21
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` with me at all times was limited to the binders
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` that I have, which include copies of my
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` declarations and exhibits.
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` Q Do you have any documents with you right
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` now, Dr. Pinal?
`
` A I do.
`
` Q What documents do you have with you?
`
` A Let me show you. I have these type of --
`
` these type of binders that have hard copies of my
`
` declarations and the exhibits.
`
` Q Are there any annotations on those copies
`
` of your declarations and exhibits?
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` A There are no annotations. What I have
`
` in -- not on the -- I will show you. I put these
`
` type of Post-It markers. In -- every place where
`
` you find in the text a new section or subsection,
`
` it would have one of these Post-Its. And the
`
` function of those Post-Its is to be able to move
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` from one section or subsection without having to
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` flip through single pages at that time. That
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` is --
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` Q Are there any --
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`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 22
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` A I'm sorry.
`
` Q Go ahead.
`
` A That is -- those are all the
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` modifications that have been made to the copies of
`
` these documents.
`
` Q And it doesn't look like you wrote
`
` anything on those Post-Its; is that right?
`
` A I have not written anything on any of
`
` those copies.
`
` Q Did you meet with anyone from UTC, United
`
` Therapeutics Corporation, in preparation for your
`
` deposition today?
`
` A I have never met, either in person or on
`
` video, anyone from United Therapeutics.
`
` Q Have you ever worked for or consulted for
`
` United Therapeutics Corporation?
`
` A I have no prior connection to United
`
` Therapeutics prior to these proceedings.
`
` Q Had you heard of United Therapeutics
`
` Corporation before this proceeding?
`
` A I may have, but I don't recall having
`
` heard about them.
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`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 23
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`Page 24
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` Q Is it fair to say, then, that your first
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` meaningful engagement with United Therapeutics
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` Corporation is this proceeding?
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` MR. TORCZON: Objection. Asked and
`
` answered.
`
` THE WITNESS: These proceedings are my
`
` first and only connection to United Therapeutics
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` up to this moment.
`
` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
`
` Q Have you ever worked for or consulted for
`
` Liquidia Technologies?
`
` A I have not.
`
` Q Are you aware of a parallel ongoing
`
` district court litigation between United
`
` Therapeutics Corporation and Liquidia Technologies
`
` involving the '901 patent?
`
` MR. TORCZON: Objection. Scope.
`
` THE WITNESS: I am not aware of what is
`
` going on between Liquidia and United Therapeutics
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` outside of the materials that I have been asked to
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` evaluate and opinions to --
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` THE REPORTER: I'm sorry. After
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 24
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`
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`Page 25
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` "material," could you please repeat what you said.
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` THE WITNESS: That I have been asked to
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` review and opinions to present.
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` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
`
` Q So you haven't reviewed any documents
`
` related to that district court litigation that I
`
` was referring to earlier?
`
` MR. TORCZON: Objection. Asked and
`
` answered.
`
` THE WITNESS: To the extent that any of
`
` those documents is also part of the exhibits that
`
` I have for these proceedings, no. I will not be
`
` able to answer that question because I don't have
`
` any information as to which materials are being
`
` reviewed in those proceedings. But if any of the
`
` proceedings that -- I'm sorry, if any of the
`
` exhibits that I have here with me now are being
`
` used in that case, then that will be, but I'm in
`
` no position to answer or even know.
`
` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
`
` Q Did you review a declaration by Robert R.
`
` Ruffolo filed on February 5th, 2021?
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 25
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`Page 26
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` MR. TORCZON: Objection. Scope.
`
` THE WITNESS: I don't believe I ran into
`
` that declaration or writing from that author.
`
` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
`
` Q Have you ever talked to a Dr. Robert R.
`
` Ruffolo?
`
` MR. TORCZON: Same objection.
`
` THE WITNESS: Robert what, sorry?
`
` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
`
` Q R. Ruffolo. That's just the person's
`
` name.
`
` A No, I have never spoken to him.
`
` Q Are all the opinions that you offer in
`
` this proceeding set forth in your two
`
` declarations?
`
` MR. TORCZON: Objection. Asked and
`
` answered.
`
` THE WITNESS: As I mentioned before, the
`
` opinions in my declaration present the status of
`
` my thinking and consideration at the time when I
`
` signed that document.
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` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 26
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`Page 27
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` Q Are there opinions you have today that
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` you didn't put in your two declarations?
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` A As I mentioned before, opinions are the
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` interconnection of different concepts and
`
` principles, and they evolve. So the subject of my
`
` opinions has not changed. The articulation may
`
` have been some changes; it's at the level that I
`
` cannot describe to you textually.
`
` Q Okay. So substantively are there any
`
` opinions today that you didn't put in your two
`
` declarations, anything you're thinking of?
`
` MR. TORCZON: Objection. Asked and
`
` answered.
`
` THE WITNESS: As I mentioned, the
`
` opinions as presented in my second declaration
`
` correspond to the opinions as I had them
`
` articulated at the time when I signed that
`
` document.
`
` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
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` Q Dr. Pinal, that wasn't my question. My
`
` question is whether you have any opinions today
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` that are different from the day you signed your
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 27
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`Page 28
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` last declaration, substantively?
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` MR. TORCZON: Same objection.
`
` THE WITNESS: As I mentioned to you,
`
` opinions are the result of interconnection of
`
` scientific principles and concepts and they
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` evolve. So the opinions that I have presented in
`
` my second declaration are still today my opinions.
`
` The actual articulation of the opinions that you
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` have in my report are presented in the shape as
`
` they were articulated at the time when I signed
`
` that document.
`
` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
`
` Q Okay. So they're -- strike that.
`
` As you sit here today, do you have any
`
` opinions about the issues in this proceeding that
`
` are not included in those two declarations?
`
` MR. TORCZON: Same objection.
`
` THE WITNESS: The general concepts
`
` presented in my opinions as expressed in my second
`
` declaration are still my opinions today. And over
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` the time to -- given to consider and review, there
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` can be some evolution of the opinions.
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 28
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`Page 29
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` The main concepts technically of the
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` opinions remain. The articulation may change in a
`
` way that I cannot describe to you textually.
`
` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
`
` Q Are there any other bases for your
`
` opinions that are not set forth in your
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` declarations?
`
` A Let me see if I understand. Are there
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` any more bases for -- for my declarations?
`
` Q Yeah. Are there any other bases for your
`
` opinions? So you've talked a lot about the
`
` concepts, that those are consistent but that the
`
` articulation might change. And so my question is,
`
` are there any other bases for your opinions that
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` are not set forth in your declarations?
`
` MR. TORCZON: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: The bases for my opinions
`
` are listed in the -- and included in the exhibits
`
` that I have used for forming my opinions.
`
` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
`
` Q So is that a no?
`
` MR. TORCZON: Objection. Asked and
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`22
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`Liquidia's Exhibit 1018
`IPR2020-00770
`Page 29
`
`
`
`Page 30
`
` answered.
`
` THE WITNESS: No, what?
`
` BY MS. KANNAPPAN:
`
` Q No, there aren't other bases that weren't
`
` included either as exhibits or in your actual
`
` declaration?
`
` A I will give you the best answer I can.
`
` And the best answer I can give you is this: All
`
` the bases for my opinions presented in my
`
` declaration are included with a list of exhibits
`
` presente
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