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`Page 1
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`------------------------------x
`SOTERA WIRELESS, INC.,
`Petitioner,
`
`v.
`MASIMO CORPORATION,
`Patent Owner.
`------------------------------x
`Case IPR2020-00967
`U.S. Patent RE47,244
`------------------------------x
`Case IPR2020-01019
`U.S. Patent RE47,353
`------------------------------x
`Case IPR2020-01033
`U.S. Patent RE47,249
`------------------------------x
`
`REMOTE VIDEO DEPOSITION
`OF
`GEORGE EMANUEL YANULIS, Ph.D.
`Thursday, February 4, 2021
`Volume IV
`______________________________________________________
`DIGITAL EVIDENCE GROUP
`1730 M Street, NW, Suite 812
`Washington, D.C. 20036
`(202) 232-0646
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2020
`
`202-232-0646
`
`-1-
`
`MASIMO 2017
`Sotera v. Masimo
`IPR2020-01033
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`Sotera Wireless, Inc. v. Masimo Corp. George Yanulis, Ph.D. Vol IV
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`Page 1
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`------------------------------x
`SOTERA WIRELESS, INC.,
`Petitioner,
`
`v.
`MASIMO CORPORATION,
`Patent Owner.
`------------------------------x
`Case IPR2020-00967
`U.S. Patent RE47,244
`------------------------------x
`Case IPR2020-01019
`U.S. Patent RE47,353
`------------------------------x
`Case IPR2020-01033
`U.S. Patent RE47,249
`------------------------------x
`
`REMOTE VIDEO DEPOSITION
`OF
`GEORGE EMANUEL YANULIS, Ph.D.
`Thursday, February 4, 2021
`Volume IV
`______________________________________________________
`DIGITAL EVIDENCE GROUP
`1730 M Street, NW, Suite 812
`Washington, D.C. 20036
`(202) 232-0646
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2020
`
`202-232-0646
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`IPR2020-01033
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`Sotera Wireless, Inc. v. Masimo Corp. George Yanulis, Ph.D. Vol IV
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` February 4, 2021
` 11:04 a.m. Eastern Standard Time
`
`Page 2
`
` Remote video deposition of GEORGE
` EMANUEL YANULIS, Ph.D., taken by Patent Owner
` Masimo Corporation, pursuant to Notices, dated
` February, 3, 2021, before Brandon Rainoff, a
` Federal Certified Realtime Reporter and Notary
` Public of the State of New York.
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`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
`KNOBBE, MARTENS, OLSON & BEAR, LLP
`Attorneys for Patent Owner Masimo Corporation
` 1717 Pennsylvania Avenue N.W.
` Suite 900
` Washington, D.C. 20006
` 202.640.6400
`BY: JEREMIAH S. HELM, Ph.D., ESQ.
` jeremiah.helm@knobbe.com
` WILLIAM ZIMMERMAN, ESQ.
` bill.zimmerman@knobbe.com
` - and -
` 2040 Main Street
` 14th Floor
` Irvine, California 92614
` 949.760.0404
`BY: STEPHEN W. LARSON, ESQ.
` stephen.larson@knobbe.
` JAROM D. KESLER, ESQ.
` jarom.kesler@knobbe.com
` - and -
`BY: JACOB PETERSON, ESQ.
` 925 Fourth Avenue
` Suite 2500
` Seattle, Washington 98104
` 206.405.2000
` jacob.peterson@knobbe.com
`
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`A P P E A R A N C E S (continued):
`
`HUSCH BLACKWELL LLP
`Attorneys for Petitioner Sotera Wireless and the
`Witness
` 190 Carondelet Plaza
` Suite 600
` St. Louis, Missouri 63105
` 314.480.1500
`BY: JENNIFER E. HOEKEL, ESQ.
` 314.345.6123
` jennifer.hoekel@huschblackwell.com
` - and -
` 120 South Riverside Plaza
` Suite 220
` Chicago, Illinois 60606
` 312.655.1500
`BY: NATHAN P. SPORTEL, ESQ.
` 312.526.1552
` nathan.sportel@huschblackwell.com
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
`JOE CERDA, Videographer and Digital Exhibit
`Technician
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`I N D E X O F E X A M I N A T I O N
`
`Page 5
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`Witness:
`George Emanuel Yanulis, Ph.D.
`
`Examination:
`By Mr. Helm.........................Page 10
`
`I N D E X O F E X H I B I T S
`
` Exhibit 1005 ...............................Page 13
`Multipage document entitled: United States Patent
`No.: 5,865,736, dated February 2, 1999 (no Bates
`Nos.)
`
` Exhibit 1003-RE47,244 ......................Page 25
`Multipage document entitled: Declaration of George E.
`Yanulis in Support of Petition for Inter Partes
`Review of U.S. Patent No. RE47,244, dated May 21,
`2020 (no Bates Nos.)
`
` Exhibit 1001-RE47,244 .....................Page 87
`Multipage document entitled: United States Reissued
`Patent No.: US RE47,244 E, dated February 19, 2019
`(no Bates Nos.)
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` I N D E X O F E X H I B I T S, CON'T
`
` Exhibit 1001-RE47,353 .....................Page 87
`Multipage document entitled: United States Reissued
`Patent No.: US RE47,353 E, dated April 16, 2019 (no
`Bates Nos.)
`
` Exhibit 1001-RE47,249 .....................Page 87
`Multipage document entitled: United States Reissued
`Patent No.: US RE47,249 E, dated February 19, 2019
`(no Bates Nos.)
`
` Exhibit 1003-RE47,249 .....................Page 156
`Multipage document entitled: Declaration of George E.
`Yanulis in Support of Petition for Inter Partes
`Review of U.S. Patent No. RE47,249, dated June 2,
`2020 (no Bates Nos.)
`
` Exhibit 1003-RE47,353 .....................Page 156
`Multipage document entitled: Declaration of George E.
`Yanulis in Support of Petition for Inter Partes
`Review of U.S. Patent No. RE47,353, dated May 28,
`2020 (no Bates Nos.)
`
` Exhibit 1007 ..............................Page 161
`Multipage document entitled: United States Patent
`No.: US 8,792,949 B2, dated July 29, 2014 (no Bates
`Nos.)
`
` Exhibit 1006 ..............................Page 163
`Multipage document entitled: United States Patent
`Application Publication No.: US 2009/0247851 A1,
`dated October 1, 2009 (no Bates Nos.)
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` I N D E X O F E X H I B I T S, CON'T
`
`Page 7
`
` Exhibit 1008 ..............................Page 164
`Multipage document entitled: United States Patent
`Application Publication No.: US 2005/0038332 A1,
`dated February 17, 2005 (no Bates Nos.)
`
` Exhibit 1010 ..............................Page 165
`Multipage document entitled: Simulation and
`mathematical notation of alarms unit for computer
`assisted resuscitation algorithm, by Swaroop Malangi
`(no Bates Nos.)
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` * * *
` P R O C E E D I N G
` Thursday, February 4, 2021
` Remote Deposition
` 11:04 a.m. Eastern Standard Time
` * * *
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now
` beginning this deposition. Today is February
` 4th, 2021. The time on the video record is
` 11:04 a.m. Eastern Standard Time.
` This is the video deposition of Dr.
` George Yanulis, taken in the matter of Sotera
` versus Masimo.
` Will counsel please identify
` themselves for the record and whom they
` represent?
` MR. HELM: Jeremiah Helm, Knobbe
` Martens, on behalf of patent owner Masimo.
` Then with me listening in are Bill
` Zimmerman, Jacob Peterson, Jarom Kesler, and
` Steve Larson, also from Knobbe Martens.
` MS. HOEKEL: I'm Jennifer Hoekel
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2020
`
`202-232-0646
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` representing Sotera, the petitioner, and Dr.
` Yanulis.
`
`And with me, from the firm of Husch
` Blackwell, is Nathan Sportel.
`THE COURT REPORTER: Counsel, before
` swearing in the witness, I have a short
` statement to put on the record.
`The attorneys participating in this
` deposition acknowledge that, due to the severity
` of COVID-19 and following the practice of social
` distancing, I am not physically present in the
` deposition room, and that I will be swearing in
` the witness and reporting this deposition
` remotely.
`
`Do all parties stipulate to the
` validity of this remote swearing and remote
` reporting via video conference, and that it will
` be admissible in the courtroom as if it had been
` taken pursuant to the applicable rules of civil
` procedure?
`Let's start with the noticing
`
` attorney.
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` MR. HELM: Yes, I stipulate.
` THE COURT REPORTER: Ms. Hoekel?
` MS. HOEKEL: Yes, we also stipulate.
`GEORGE EMANUEL YANULIS,
` having been duly sworn, was examined and
` testified as follows:
`EXAMINATION
`BY MR. HELM:
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Yanulis. You are
` here today to offer testimony related to
` declarations you submitted in support of three
` different inter partes review petitions.
` Is that correct?
` A. Yes, sir, it is.
` Q. And those inter partes reviews are IPR
` 2020-00967, IPR 2020-01019, and IPR 2020-01033.
` Is that correct?
` A. Yes, counselor, it is.
` Q. Are you prepared to testify about your
` declaration in IPR 2020-00967?
` A. I am.
` Q. And are you prepared to testify about
`
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` your declaration in IPR 2020-01019?
` A. I am.
` Q. And are you prepared to testify about
` your declaration in IPR 2020-01033?
` A. I am, sir.
` Q. Is there anything today that would
` prevent you from giving me true and accurate
` testimony?
` A. No, there is not.
` Q. I know you have been deposed already
` on several occasions, so you are familiar
` generally with the ground rules. But I just
` want to refresh your recollection, okay?
` So during the course of the
` deposition, I'm going to ask you questions. And
` if you need any clarification, please let me
` immediately. Otherwise, I'm going to assume you
` understood the question.
` Is that fair?
` A. Yes, it is, sir. Thank you.
` Q. And if you answer the question, I'm
` going to assume that you understood what I was
`
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` asking.
` Is that fair?
` A. Yes, it is, sir.
` Q. Very good.
` Are you currently taking any
` medications that would affect your ability to
` testify today?
` A. No, I am not.
` Q. Is there any drug or alcohol use that
` would affect your ability to testify today?
` A. No, there is not.
` Q. Have you ever been charged with a
` felony?
` A. No, I have not.
` Q. Very good.
` As part of the analysis that you
` carried out for your declaration submitted in
` these three IPR proceedings, you considered a
` reference that's called Baker-1 -- you refer to
` as Baker-1.
` Is that correct?
` A. Yes, sir, it is.
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2020
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`MR. HELM: And that's Baker --
` hyphen -- 1, just for the court reporter.
`BY MR. HELM:
`Q.
`And Baker-1 -- that is U.S. Patent No.
` 5,865,736.
`And that was Exhibit 1005 to each of
` your three declarations?
`A.
`Yes, that's correct.
`MR. HELM: So if you could get out
` Baker-1 and if we could have Exhibit 1005.
`(Exhibit 1005, Multipage document
` entitled: United States Patent No.: 5,865,736,
` dated February 2, 1999 (no Bates Nos.), marked
` for identification)
`(Pause)
`MR. HELM: And just for the record, we
` provided hard copies of these exhibits for Dr.
` Yanulis to use in conjunction with the
` electronic copies.
`(Pause)
`THE WITNESS: I have now taken out
` Baker-1, counsel.
`
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` MR. HELM: Do you have it?
` THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
` MR. HELM: Very good.
`BY MR. HELM:
` Q. So this is the reference you referred
` to as Baker-1, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And have you offered an opinion of
` this reference in each of the declarations that
` we are going to discuss today?
` A. Yes, I have.
` Q. Can you give me a high-level
` explanation of what Baker-1 discloses?
` MS. HOEKEL: Object to the form.
` A. Baker-1 is basically a
` method and apparatus for controlling alarms in
` medical diagnostic apparatus. Basically, the
` alarm is emitted based upon a combination of the
` amount of time passed, and how much past the
` threshold the measured value is.
` And preferably, the combination set
` forth in this patent is an integral, or some
`
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` function of an integral.
` Q. Are you reading that from some place?
` A. Yes, I'm reading from the abstract --
` Q. And so what you -- your testimony
` about the high level -- at a high level is based
` upon what's in the abstract there?
` A. Yes.
` I'll be glad to add to it as a
` PHOSITA.
` But basically there is a variable type
` of alarm delay system.
` But I'll be able -- I'll be more than
` happy to expand on it.
` Q. What does it mean to be a variable
` type of alarm delay system?
` A. Means you are calculating the variable
` delay times.
` There is two thresholds: SpO2 and
` pulse rate thresholds.
` Q. And let me just break that into parts.
` When you say "calculating the variable
` delay times," how does Baker-1 calculate the
`
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` variable delay times?
` A. If you don't mind, I'm going to refer
` to the equation listed on page -- column 5,
` lines 3.
` The two equations -- basically you are
` solving for (n). All the other terms are known.
` That is for, basically, one of the delay times
` for integral threshold.
` Then there is a second one as well.
` But basically both thresholds are
` calculating (n). That's the unknown. And that
` determines the time for the time delay times.
` The integral thresholds are basically
` inputted by the clinician.
` Q. Okay.
` So if we can start with column 3, is
` the equation you are referring to at
` approximately line 25 of column 3?
` A. Yes, it's shown as equation (1).
` And we are basically using the -- as
` they say -- articulate: Simple summation to
` approximate the integral.
`
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` Q. Just so that it's clear for the
` record, we are looking at equation (1) --
` MS. HOEKEL: Jeremiah, we can't hear
` you.
`BY MR. HELM:
` Q. For the record, we are looking --
` MS. HOEKEL: I'm not the only one who
` can't hear him, right?
` (Pause)
` MR. HELM: Let's go off the record for
` a second.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now going
` off the record. The time is 11:13 a.m.
` (Recess from 11:13 a.m. to 11:15 a.m.
` Eastern Standard Time)
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now going
` back on the video record. The time is 11:15
` a.m.
`BY MR. HELM:
` Q. So, Dr. Yanulis, we were looking at
` column 3, line 25 of Baker-1, correct?
` A. Correct.
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2020
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` And I wanted to expand on that
` equation (1) description, if I may.
` Q. Absolutely. I want you to do that. I
` just want to make sure everything is clear for
` the record.
` And the equation we are talking about
` is identified as equation (1) in Baker-1.
` Is that correct?
` A. Yes, sir.
` Q. Okay. Very good.
` So you started telling me about what
` some of the different aspects of that equation
` were --
` A. Yes, but -- go ahead.
` Q. -- and so -- please, can you go on
` about that?
` A. This equation (1) is based on an
` algorithm, which is one of the embodiments
` disclosed by Baker-1. Basically it's
` calculating -- and I hope you don't mind my
` reading, counselor, for the record.
` Q. So long as you let me know what you
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2020
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` are doing, I'm happy for you to read.
` A. I'm referring to column 3, lines 18,
` discussing the algorithm which is described by
` equation (1).
` Basically in this first embodiment
` describing equation (1), we are calculating:
` The integral of the difference between the
` current saturation and a saturation threshold
` whenever these current saturation is below the
` saturation threshold.
` And it's basically a sampling
` mechanism and we are using the summation formula
` listed below.
` And the only unknown is (n), which
` represents time. And the threshold are -- in
` this embodiment -- inputted by the clinician or
` healthcare provider.
` Q. So in this equation, I want to just
` walk through what each of the individual pieces
` are.
` In this equation, the first term is
` I -- subscript -- s-a-t -- parentheses and close
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2020
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` parentheses.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes, sir.
` Q. I'm going to refer to that as Isat(n).
` Is that all right?
` A. That's fine.
` Q. What is Isat(n) in this equation?
` A. It's representing the saturation
` integral at a time, but you can vary the time.
` Q. And then there is an equals sign,
` correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Then after the equal sign, the first
` term is I, subscript s-a-t, then -- in
` parentheses -- (n minus 1) -- close parentheses.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. I'm going to call that Isat(n-1).
` Is that okay?
` A. That's fine, sir.
` Q. What is Isat(n-1) mean?
` A. This is the first portion of the
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` summation formula. This is the standard way of
` notating -- this is one example of a summation
` occurring or being utilized in this particular
` embodiment.
` Q. What do you mean by "a summation" in
` this context?
` A. There is all kinds of summation
` formulas, without getting the detail.
` But this is nothing more than a simple
` summation process of achieving -- of how this
` algorithm is working and functioning -- or is
` designed to work.
` Q. So let me get to the last term, and I
` want to come back to the summation.
` The last term here -- the last piece
` of this equation -- is a horizontal -- a
` vertical line, capital T, lower case subscript
` s-a-t minus s-a-t(n) followed by another
` vertical line.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes, sir, I do.
` Q. What is Tsat in that equation?
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` A. Tsat is the saturation threshold. And
` that is one term in this approximation of the
` summation series one --
` Q. Okay.
` Then what is sat(n)?
` A. If you don't mind, I'd like to refer
` to my -- to Baker-1 to refresh my memory.
` Q. Please go ahead.
` (Pause)
` A. We already stated I'm reading from
` column 3 again for the court reporter.
` Isat(n) is the saturation integral.
` So to answer your question, the Tsat
` is the saturation threshold, counselor.
` (Pause)
` A. And if I could, I would like to refer
` to Figure -- I believe it's Figure 3 in the same
` patent -- Baker-1 for the court reporter --
` showing the graphical representation.
` If you will refer to page 4, Figure 3,
` it shows the graphical representation of the
` summation.
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` And referring back to the so-called
` representation of the terms, we have already
` dealt with -- going back to column 3 -- the
` saturation representation.
` And I'm still referring to column 3
` for the court reporter.
` We've already talked about T
` saturation.
` And it's pretty well-known for a
` PHOSITA that this is a -- continuous time form.
` And an alarm is generated when I saturations
` exceeds a integral threshold.
` Q. So let me just really quickly ask --
` the term sat(n) -- is that the saturation at
` time (n)?
` A. Again, (n) is a variable that is
` solved when you put in a particular time -- in
` other words, two seconds, four seconds --
` whatever.
` Q. And so you mentioned that this is a
` summation equation, correct?
` A. It's basically a -- it's a summation
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` representation.
` There are several types of summations
` that a PHOSITA would know well in the art.
` But this is one way to approximate an
` integral. It's not an exact determination.
` You can use other, more complicated,
` computer-generated type summations.
` (Pause)
` THE WITNESS: Did you hear me okay,
` counselor?
` MR. HELM: Yes. I was just looking at
` what you had said.
`BY MR. HELM:
` Q. So what is being summed in this
` equation -- this integral equation in Baker-1?
` A. The I saturation, which we have --
` basically, it's the saturation integral at
` any -- at a particular time that we input.
` We can input any kind of times that we
` want to see.
` In other words, we are trying to see
` what the delay times. And this I saturation is
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2020
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` basically giving us an approximate
` representation of the so-called saturation
` integral at a time (n).
` Q. So you provided some examples of using
` this equation in your expert declaration.
` Is that correct?
` A. I did, sir.
` Q. Those are in Appendix A of your expert
` declaration?
` A. Yes, they are.
` MR. HELM: If you could take out
` Exhibit 1003. And we can use the declaration
` from IPR '967 -- that ends in 967.
` (Exhibit 1003-RE47,244, Multipage
` document entitled: Declaration of George E.
` Yanulis in Support of Petition for Inter Partes
` Review of U.S. Patent No. RE47,244, dated May
` 21, 2020 (no Bates Nos.), marked for
` identification)
` MS. HOEKEL: The '244 patent?
` MR. HELM: That's the '244 patent.
` THE WITNESS: I am getting that out,
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` counsel.
` It's out.
` (Pause)
` MR. HELM: Let me know when you are
` ready.
` THE WITNESS: I'm ready, counselor.
`BY MR. HELM:
` Q. So can you explain to me what Exhibit
` A to your declaration is?
` A. Exhibit A is some examples of
` different times setting different integral
` thresholds, which I alluded to before are set by
` the clinician or healthcare provider.
` Q. You mentioned before that the -- that
` you thought that the time was the only variable
` in this equation.
` Is that --
` A. No, what I was -- let me clarify that.
` (N) is the unknown variable that you
` are trying to determine using this formula,
` which represents the time of change, delay time.
` Q. So I'm going to look at page 1 of
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` Exhibit A. If we could just walk through this
` together.
` A. Sure.
` Q. And you have made some assumptions
` here.
` Is that correct?
` A. I'm using the -- using what's
` disclosed at the Baker-1. I'm using -- if you
` will, you could call it assumptions set to forth
` by Baker-1.
` These are not my assumptions.
` Q. And Baker-1 assumes there is an
` integral threshold of 25?
` A. No. You can -- you can pick different
` integral thresholds, see what kind of delay
` times, and see if it exceeds saturation.
` Again, the healthcare provider is
` providing these integral thresholds.
` These are just only examples that a
` clinician may want to use.
` Q. So in this example, you have assumed
` an integral threshold of 25.
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` Is that correct?
` A. Well, I was given -- I was using 25 as
` an integral threshold, and we obtained a
` saturation volume of approximately 83%.
` Q. This saturation -- let me just walk
` through.
` The next one is Tsat. And that is 85.
` That's another setting in the system?
` A. Yes -- in other words, using 85 as a
` value for T saturation.
` Q. So the Tsat -- is that actually 85% if
` we are measuring oxygen saturation?
` A. Yes, pulse ox is usually represented.
` I realize there is two different
` thresholds. But in this particular integral
` threshold, yes, this represents percentage for
` pulse oximetry.
` Q. So the Tsat should be -- if we were
` being 100% accurate, the Tsat would be 85%?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And then sat(n) is your saturation
` measurement at a particular point in time.
`
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` Is that correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Here you said -- you made the
` assumption that throughout the entire -- the
` saturation is going to be 83%.
` Is that correct?
` A. No. No, that's not what I'm saying,
` counselor.
` I'm saying use the values, as
` discussed in this, using an integral threshold
` of 25, and a Tsat recommendation of 85%. We now
` come up with a saturation of 83%.
` You can put in different values for
` integral threshold and Tsat recommendation and
` come up with different values of the saturation
` to see if they have exceeded the threshold.
` Q. But sat(n) is a measured value from
` the system.
` Isn't that correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And so you had to assume that the
` measured value from the system is 83%.
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` Is that correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. So I want to look at the first line.
` And this is where you have put in the values
` that you have set above into Baker-1's integral
` equation.
` Is that correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. So I see: Isat(0).
` What is that?
` A. You are assuming that you are starting
` out with an I saturation of zero. And then you
` are putting in the values. And that will tell
` you how much this I saturation is increased --
` at least in this first line.
` Q. So Isat(0) has is a value of zero in
` this equation?
` A. Well, it's a time zero. Excuse me.
` It's a time zero. Let me clarify that.
` Q. Okay.
` So at time zero, your saturation
` integral has a value of zero, correct?
`
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`M
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