9/28/2023
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`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 1
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`__________________________
`BLUEBIRD BIO, INC.
`) Case No. IPR2023-00070
`Petitioner,
`) Patent No. 7,541,179
` v. )
`SLOAN KETTERING INSTITUTE ) Case No. IPR2023-00074
`FOR CANCER RESEARCH, ) Patent No. 8,058,061
`Patent Owner. )
`__________________________)
`
`DEPOSITION OF JAMES RILEY, PH.D.
`Thursday, September 28, 2023
`Fox Rothschild LLP
`101 Park Avenue
`17th Floor
`New York, New York
`9:06 a.m. (EDT)
`
`REPORTED BY: AMANDA GORRONO, CLR
`CLR NO. 052005-01
`______________________________________________________
`DIGITAL EVIDENCE GROUP
`1730 M Street, NW, Suite 812
`Washington, D.C. 20036
`(202) 232-0646
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com
`
`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`BLUEBIRD EXHIBIT 1052
`bluebird v. SKI
`IPR2023-00074
`
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`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 2
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`A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`Attorneys for Petitioner
` PAUL HASTINGS LLP
` Max H. Yusem, Esquire
` 200 Park Avenue
` New York, NY 10166
` PHONE: (212) 318-6375
`E-MAIL: Maxyusem@paulhastings.com
`- AND -
` PAUL HASTINGS LLP
` Krystina L. Ho, Esquire
` 200 Park Avenue
` New York, NY 10166
` PHONE: (212) 318-6023
`E-MAIL: Krystinaho@paulhastings.com
`
`Attorneys for Sloan Kettering
` FOX ROTHSCHILD LLP
` Michael W. Glynn Ph.D., Esquire
` 101 Park Avenue
` 17th Floor
` New York, New York 10178
` PHONE: 646.601.7634
`E-MAIL: Mglynn@foxrothschild.com
`
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`202-232-0646
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`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 3
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` A P P E A R A N C E S, CON'T
`
` - AND -
` FOX ROTHSCHILD LLP
` Joe Chen Ph.D., Esquire
` 997 Lenox Drive
` Princeton Pike Corporate Center
` Lawrenceville, NJ 08648
` PHONE: 609.844.3024
` E-MAIL: Joechen@foxrothschild.com
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
`Danny Ortega, Legal Videographer - Digital
`Evidence Group
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`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 4
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` I N D E X
`WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
`JAMES RILEY, Ph.D. MR. YUSEM 6, 150
` MR. GLYNN 144
` PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS IDENTIFIED
`EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
`Exhibit 2056 Riley Declaration for U.S. Patent ..... 12
` 7,541,179
`Exhibit 2056 Riley Declaration for U.S. Patent ..... 13
` 8,058,061
`Exhibit 1005 May Article............................ 32
`Exhibit 1006 May Abstract........................... 32
`Exhibit 1001 US Patent 7,541,179.................... 36
`Exhibit 1001 US Patent 8,058,061.................... 37
`Exhibit 1034 US Patent Provisional Application ..... 58
` 60-301861
`Exhibit 2064 "Hypersensitive Site 2 Specifies a .... 73
` Unique Function Within Human
` Beta-Globin Locus Control Region to
` Stimulate Globin Gene Transcription"
`Exhibit 1022 Sadelain Article....................... 82
`Exhibit 1026 Document............................... 130
` R E Q U E S T S
`DESCRIPTION PAGE
`Read & Sign........................................... 157
`
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`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 5
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now on the 09:05:43
`
` record. My name is Danny Ortega and I'm the 09:05:43
`
` legal videographer for Digital Evidence 09:05:47
`
` Group. 09:05:49
`
` Today's date is September 28th, 09:05:50
`
` 2023, and the time is 9:06 a.m. 09:05:52
`
` This video deposition is being held 09:05:56
`
` at 101 Park Avenue, New York, New York, in 09:05:58
`
` the matter of bluebird bio, Inc. versus Sloan 09:06:01
`
` Kettering Institute. 09:06:05
`
` The deponent today is James Riley, 09:06:06
`
` Ph.D. 09:06:09
`
` Counsel, please identify yourselves 09:06:10
`
` for the record. 09:06:12
`
` MR. YUSEM: Yes. Max Yusem from 09:06:14
`
` Paul Hastings for Petitioner. And with me is 09:06:16
`
` Krystina Ho. 09:06:20
`
` MR. GLYNN: This is Michael Glynn. 09:06:22
`
` And I'm joined by Joe Chen for Patent Owner. 09:06:22
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The court 09:06:28
`
` reporter today is Amanda Gorrono, who will 09:06:29
`
` now swear in the witness. 09:06:31
`
` JAMES RILEY, Ph.D., called as a witness, having 09:06:35
`
` been first duly sworn by a Notary Public of the 09:06:35
`
` State of New York, was examined and testified as 09:06:35
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`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 6
` follows: 09:06:36
`
` THE WITNESS: I do. 09:06:36
`
` THE COURT REPORTER: Thank you. 09:06:38
`
` EXAMINATION 09:06:38
`
` BY MR. YUSEM: 10:33:48
`
` Q. Dr. Riley, have you been deposed 10:33:48
`
` before? 09:06:43
`
` A. I have. 09:06:43
`
` Q. Okay. How many times? 09:06:44
`
` A. Once. 09:06:45
`
` Q. And what was that matter about? 09:06:47
`
` A. It was a contract dispute. 09:06:51
`
` Q. And in that matter, were you 09:06:53
`
` testifying as a fact witness or an expert 09:06:54
`
` witness? 09:06:57
`
` A. I was an expert witness. 09:06:57
`
` Q. Expert witness. 09:06:59
`
` And how long ago was that? 09:07:02
`
` A. It's been a while. More than ten 09:07:03
`
` years. 09:07:07
`
` Q. And was the contract dispute related 09:07:08
`
` to like a patent license? Or just generally, 09:07:11
`
` could you describe what the matter was about? 09:07:14
`
` A. It was a blood banking issue. And I 09:07:16
`
` do a lot of work with human blood, so I was asked 09:07:22
`
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`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 7
` to testify based on that. 09:07:25
`
` Q. And do you remember the parties' 09:07:27
`
` names, either the party that you were testifying 09:07:30
`
` for or -- 09:07:33
`
` A. I was testifying for a single 09:07:34
`
` proprietor and the defendant was Coriell -- it's 09:07:42
`
` a medical center right in Camden. 09:07:47
`
` Q. And do you know if that matter ever 09:07:51
`
` went to trial? 09:07:53
`
` A. I don't. 09:07:54
`
` Q. So you didn't testify at trial, like 09:07:54
`
` at a trial before a judge or a jury or anything 09:07:57
`
` like that? 09:07:59
`
` A. Yeah. After I did the deposition, I 09:08:00
`
` didn't hear anything else. 09:08:03
`
` Q. Okay. So since it's been some time, 09:08:04
`
` I just wanted to sort of cover some of the basic 09:08:08
`
` ground rules. 09:08:11
`
` If you don't understand any of my 09:08:11
`
` questions today, just please let me know and I 09:08:13
`
` can try to clarify. 09:08:16
`
` And for the sake of the reporter, 09:08:17
`
` it's best that we don't talk over each other. So 09:08:18
`
` I'll do my question and you do your answer, and 09:08:21
`
` that way she can get everything on the record 09:08:21
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`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 8
` nice and clean. 09:08:27
`
` If you need to take a break at any 09:08:27
`
` time, just let us know. The one thing I ask, 09:08:28
`
` though, is that if I do have a question pending 09:08:30
`
` that you finish your answer to that question 09:08:32
`
` before we take our break. 09:08:34
`
` Any reason that you can't provide 09:08:35
`
` complete, truthful testimony today? 09:08:37
`
` A. Not that I'm aware of, no. 09:08:41
`
` Q. Okay. How did you prepare for 09:08:44
`
` today's deposition? 09:08:45
`
` A. I reviewed my statement and reviewed 09:08:46
`
` some of the documents that I reference in the 09:08:54
`
` statement. 09:09:01
`
` Q. And did you review any documents 09:09:01
`
` that are not -- and when you say "statement" do 09:09:03
`
` you mean your Declaration? 09:09:07
`
` A. Yes. Sorry. Yes. 09:09:08
`
` Q. Okay. And did you review any 09:09:11
`
` documents in preparation for today's deposition 09:09:12
`
` that were not cited in your Declaration? 09:09:14
`
` A. I don't believe so. 09:09:18
`
` Q. Okay. And who did you meet with in 09:09:20
`
` preparation for today's deposition? 09:09:23
`
` A. The gentlemen here, Dr. Chen and 09:09:24
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`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 9
` Glynn. 09:09:29
`
` Q. Anybody else? 09:09:29
`
` A. One or two other Fox Rothschild 09:09:32
`
` lawyers dropped in for a second, but mostly met 09:09:36
`
` with... 09:09:40
`
` Q. Did you -- did you speak to anybody 09:09:40
`
` in preparation for today's deposition that is not 09:09:43
`
` with the Fox Rothschild firm? 09:09:46
`
` A. I did not. 09:09:47
`
` Q. Okay. Did you speak with anyone 09:09:48
`
` that's associated with Memorial Sloan Kettering? 09:09:50
`
` A. I did not. 09:09:57
`
` Q. Okay. Did you speak with any of the 09:09:57
`
` inventors? 09:10:01
`
` A. I did not. 09:10:01
`
` Q. Okay. And so do you understand that 09:10:02
`
` the -- the matter here is between bluebird bio, 09:10:14
`
` Inc. verse Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer 09:10:17
`
` Research? 09:10:17
`
` Let me -- let me ask the question in 09:10:27
`
` a different way. 09:10:29
`
` Do you know who your -- who you 09:10:30
`
` prepared your Declaration on behalf of? 09:10:31
`
` MR. GLYNN: Objection to form. 09:10:38
`
` MR. YUSEM: Withdrawn. Let me... 09:10:47
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`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 10
` BY MR. YUSEM: 09:10:50
`
` Q. Do you know a company called 09:10:50
`
` San Rocco Therapeutics? 09:10:52
`
` A. I have heard of it. I actually -- 09:10:53
`
` not that familiar with it, but I have heard of 09:10:56
`
` it. 09:10:59
`
` Q. Have you ever heard of a company 09:10:59
`
` called Errant Gene Therapeutics? 09:11:01
`
` A. No, I haven't. 09:11:04
`
` Q. Okay. Have you spoken to anybody 09:11:05
`
` that works at San Rocco Therapeutics? 09:11:07
`
` A. I have not. 09:11:09
`
` Q. Okay. Have you ever worked with 09:11:10
`
` anybody that works at San Rocco Therapeutics? 09:11:12
`
` A. I don't believe so. 09:11:13
`
` Q. Okay. Have you spoken to anybody 09:11:14
`
` that works for Memorial Sloan Kettering about 09:11:19
`
` this proceeding? 09:11:23
`
` A. About this proceeding, no. 09:11:25
`
` Q. Okay. Do you -- Sloan Kettering 09:11:27
`
` Institute for Cancer Research, is that a 09:11:34
`
` different entity in your mind than Sloan -- 09:11:34
`
` Memorial Sloan Kettering? 09:11:38
`
` A. I'm not quite sure the exact 09:11:40
`
` difference between the two, but -- 09:11:44
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`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 11
` Q. Neither am I, so I just -- 09:11:44
`
` A. Yeah. 09:11:46
`
` Q. So, have you spoken to either 09:11:47
`
` Memorial Sloan Kettering or anyone at the Sloan 09:11:50
`
` Kettering Institute for Cancer Research about 09:11:56
`
` these proceedings? 09:11:57
`
` A. I have not. 09:11:57
`
` Q. Okay. Who first contacted you to 09:11:58
`
` ask you to provide an opinion in this case? 09:12:00
`
` A. I have a colleague at Penn who runs 09:12:03
`
` a consulting business, and he basically tries to 09:12:09
`
` pair up expert witnesses with lawyers. 09:12:12
`
` Q. Got it. 09:12:14
`
` So prior to your work on this case, 09:12:21
`
` have you ever consulted with Memorial Sloan 09:12:28
`
` Kettering before? 09:12:32
`
` A. No. 09:12:35
`
` Q. Okay. What about consulted with 09:12:35
`
` Sloan -- Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer 09:12:38
`
` Research? 09:12:41
`
` A. I have not. 09:12:41
`
` Q. Okay. And you prepared two 09:12:42
`
` declarations for two different proceedings, 09:12:51
`
` right? 09:12:54
`
` A. (Nods.) 09:12:54
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`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 12
` Q. One of the proceedings, and it's 09:12:54
`
` okay if you don't know the number, but it's 09:12:57
`
` 2023-00070. 09:13:01
`
` Did I get that right? Yeah. And 09:13:05
`
` the other one is 2023-00074. 09:13:06
`
` One relates to one of the patents, 09:13:10
`
` and the other relates to the other one of the 09:13:12
`
` patents, the -- for -- do you sort of understand 09:13:14
`
` that conceptually? 09:13:17
`
` A. Do you actually have the documents? 09:13:18
`
` Q. Yes, I do. Here. 09:13:20
`
` So I'm going to hand you -- actually 09:13:26
`
` before I hand you this, have you brought any 09:13:28
`
` documents with you today? 09:13:30
`
` A. I have not. 09:13:31
`
` Q. Okay. So I'm going to hand you 09:13:32
`
` previously marked Exhibit 2056 -- 09:13:34
`
` MR. YUSEM: Copy? 09:13:42
`
` MR. GLYNN: Oh, yes, please. Thank 09:13:43
`
` you. 09:13:45
`
` (Whereupon, Exhibit 2056, Riley 09:13:45
`
` Declaration for U.S. Patent 7,541,179, was 09:13:45
`
` identified.) 09:13:58
`
` BY MR. YUSEM: 09:13:58
`
` Q. And do you recognize that document, 09:13:59
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`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 13
` Dr. Riley? 09:14:01
`
` A. I do. 09:14:01
`
` Q. And what is that? 09:14:01
`
` A. So this is my Declaration related to 09:14:02
`
` the '179 patent. 09:14:05
`
` Q. Okay. And I'm going to hand you 09:14:06
`
` another document, also previously marked 2056 -- 09:14:11
`
` which will be very confusing for the record. 09:14:17
`
` (Whereupon, Exhibit 2056, Riley 09:14:17
`
` Declaration for U.S. Patent 8,058,061, was 09:14:17
`
` identified.) 09:14:16
`
` BY MR. YUSEM: 09:14:16
`
` Q. And do you recognize the document I 09:14:30
`
` just handed you? 09:14:31
`
` A. I do. 09:14:38
`
` Q. And what is this document? 09:14:39
`
` A. This looks like my Declaration for 09:14:40
`
` the '061 patent. But I am a little confused why 09:14:46
`
` it's the same exhibit number. Weren't they 09:14:49
`
` different? 09:14:52
`
` Q. So what happened was is that each 09:14:52
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` proceeding has their own exhibits, so they match 09:14:54
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` up across. 09:14:57
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` So in the -- in the '179 proceeding, 09:14:57
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` Exhibit 2056 is your one declaration and in the 09:15:03
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`202-232-0646
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`

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`9/28/2023
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`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 14
` other proceeding it's 2056. 09:15:05
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` A. I see. That makes sense. 09:15:07
`
` Q. So for clarity today, if I refer to 09:15:09
`
` your Declaration or if I refer to Exhibit 2056, 09:15:12
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` I'm going to be referring to the one for the '179 09:15:14
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` patent. 09:15:18
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` A. Okay. 09:15:19
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` Q. Is that -- unless we specify 09:15:20
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` otherwise. 09:15:22
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` A. Got ya. 09:15:23
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` Q. Is that fair? Is that -- if you 09:15:24
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` have any questions about -- 09:15:25
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` A. Sure. 09:15:25
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` Q. -- that, just ask me, and we'll -- 09:15:26
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` A. Sure. 09:15:28
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` Q. Because I want to make sure that 09:15:29
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` we're talking about the same thing. 09:15:31
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` A. Yeah, it's unfortunate they are, but 09:15:33
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` okay. 09:15:36
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` Q. Yeah, so let's take a look here. 09:15:36
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` And do you understand that today's 09:15:41
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` deposition is about both of these proceedings for 09:15:43
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` the '179 patent and the '061 patent? 09:15:45
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` A. I do. 09:15:48
`
` Q. Okay. So can you tell me generally 09:15:49
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`

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`9/28/2023
`
`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 15
` how you prepared your Declarations for these 09:15:53
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` proceedings? 09:15:55
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` A. In short, I met with counsel. We 09:15:56
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` discussed the issues at hand. I did my own 09:16:04
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` independent research and preparation. We 09:16:08
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` exchanged drafts, and we signed it -- I signed 09:16:13
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` it. 09:16:17
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` Q. And did you speak with anyone else 09:16:17
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` in preparation for your Declaration apart from 09:16:20
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` counsel from Fox Rothschild? 09:16:22
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` A. I did not. 09:16:24
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` Q. Okay. So as I mentioned, I do want 09:16:25
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` to -- I'm going to be focusing on the '179 09:16:33
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` Declaration today; but before I do that, since 09:16:37
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` you have both of them in front of you, do you 09:16:39
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` have any -- do you have an understanding of 09:16:44
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` whether or not there's any significant difference 09:16:48
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` between the analysis you provided for the 09:16:52
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` priority date between the two patents? 09:16:54
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` A. Well, the word "significant" is a 09:16:57
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` loaded word in my field, so we should clarify 09:17:01
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` that. 09:17:04
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` Q. Can -- okay. So -- yeah, if you 09:17:05
`
` take a look at your Declaration for the '179 09:17:29
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` patent that's Exhibit 2056, take a look at Page 2 09:17:33
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`202-232-0646
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`9/28/2023
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`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 16
` for me. 09:17:40
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` A. Okay. 09:17:42
`
` Q. Do you see under heading Roman 09:17:43
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` numeral -- where did it go -- it's -- Roman 09:17:46
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` numeral VIII, Subsection B, it says, "The 09:17:51
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` Priority Date of the '179 Patent"? 09:17:54
`
` A. Sorry, there's two different page 09:17:56
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` numbers here. 09:17:59
`
` Q. Oh, you're right, there are. I'll 09:17:59
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` specify it's Page 3 of 189 of Exhibit 256. 09:18:01
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` A. I got ya. Okay. VIII -- I'm sorry. 09:18:07
`
` Could you repeat the question? I found where it 09:18:10
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` says VIII. 09:18:12
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` Q. Yeah, Subsection B, it says, "The 09:18:14
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` Priority Date of the '179 Patent." 09:18:16
`
` A. Yes. 09:18:18
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` Q. Okay. You provided an opinion in 09:18:19
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` that section about the priority date of the '179 09:18:20
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` patent, right? 09:18:22
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` A. I'm sorry to do this, but 52, is 09:18:30
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` that Page 52 or Paragraph 52? 09:18:36
`
` Q. I'm guessing it's Page 52. 09:18:39
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` A. Okay. 09:18:43
`
` (Discussion held off the record.) 09:19:14
`
` A. (Continuing) Okay, so could you 09:19:31
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`9/28/2023
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`bluebird bio, Inc. v. Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research James Riley, Ph.D.
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`Page 17
` repeat the question? 09:19:34
`
` BY MR. YUSEM: 09:19:35
`
` Q. You provide an opinion about the 09:19:35
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` priority date of the '179 patent in your 09:19:37
`
` Declaration? 09:19:39
`
` A. I'm not sure I provided an opinion 09:19:40
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` about priority date, but I did address some of 09:19:47
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` the issues with the priority date. 09:19:50
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` Q. Sitting here today, are you aware of 09:19:53
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` any differences in the opinion you provided about 09:19:54
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` the issues about the priority date for the '179 09:19:58
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` patent compared to the '061 patent? 09:20:01
`
` A. So I read the '179, and I'm guessing 09:20:04
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` the '061 is roughly in the same place, right? 09:20:11
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` Q. Yes, if you look at your TOC. 09:20:15
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` A. Yeah, Page 47. Right, so I see 09:20:17
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` there are differences. 09:21:00
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` Q. Can you take a look at your -- the 09:21:08
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` Declaration for the '179 patent. 09:21:13
`
`