·1· · · · · UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·2· · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·3· · · · · · · · ·U.S. PATENT NO. 10,130,123
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`·4· NJOY LLC ET AL
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`·5· · · ·PETITIONERS,
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`·6· VS.
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`·7· JUUL LABS, INC.,
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`·8· · · ·PATENT OWNER.
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`·9· ********************************************************
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`10· · · · · · · · VIRTUAL REMOTE DEPOSITION OF
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`11· · · · · · · · · · ·JOSEPH MCALEXANDER
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`12· · · · · · · · ·WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 08, 2025
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`13· · · · · · · · · · · · AT 12:00 P.M.
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`14· ********************************************************
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`17· Reported by Gabriela S. Silva, CSR, RPR
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 1 of 25
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`·2· · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·3· · · · · · · · ·U.S. PATENT NO. 10,130,123
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`·4· NJOY LLC ET AL
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`·5· · · ·PETITIONERS,
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`·6· VS.
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`·7· JUUL LABS, INC.,
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`·8· · · ·PATENT OWNER.
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`·9· ********************************************************
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`10· · · · · · · · VIRTUAL REMOTE DEPOSITION OF
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`11· · · · · · · · · · ·JOSEPH MCALEXANDER
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`12· · · · · · · · ·WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 08, 2025
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`13· · · · · · · · · · · · AT 12:00 P.M.
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`14· ********************************************************
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`15
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`16
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`17· Reported by Gabriela S. Silva, CSR, RPR
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 1 of 25
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · A P P E A R A N C E S
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`·2
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`·3· APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
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`·4· ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER JUUL LABS, INC.:
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`·5· · · · · · QUINCY LU
`· · · · · · · QUINN EMANUEL URQUHART & SULLIVAN, LLP
`·6· · · · · · 1109 First Avenue, Suite 210
`· · · · · · · Seattle,· Washington 98101
`·7· · · · · · (206) 905-7000
`· · · · · · · Quincylu@quinnemanuel.com
`·8
`· · ON BEHALF OF ALTRIA, NJOY LLC, NJOY HOLDINGS, INC., AND
`·9· EXPERT WITNESS:
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`10· · · · · · MATTHEW D. SIEGER
`· · · · · · · CHRISTOPHER PEPE
`11· · · · · · PAUL WEISS
`· · · · · · · 2001 K Street, NW
`12· · · · · · Washington,· DC 20006
`· · · · · · · (202) 381-5037
`13· · · · · · Msieger@paulweiss.com
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 2 of 25
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · I N D E X
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`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
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`·3· Appearances......................................· ·02
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`·4
`· · Exhibits.........................................· ·04
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`·6
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`·7· · · · · · · · · · ·JOSEPH MCALEXANDER
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`·8
`· · Direct Examination by MR. LU......................· 05
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`10· Reporter's Certificate...........................· ·22
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`11· Changes and Signature............................· ·23
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`12
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`13
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`14· · · · · · · · · · · · ·E X H I B I T S
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`15· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·(None)
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 3 of 25
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · P R O C E E D I N G S
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`·2· · · · · · · · ·(On the record at 12:04 p.m.)
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`·3· · · · · · · · COURT REPORTER:· We're on the record on
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`·4· Wednesday, January 8th, 2025.· My name is Gabriela
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`·5· Silva, Texas CSR No. 8706.· I am administering the oath
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`·6· and reporting the deposition remotely by stenographic
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`·7· means from Williamson County, Texas.· Will Counsel
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`·8· please state their appearances and whom they represent,
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`·9· after which I will swear in the witness?
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`10· · · · · · · · MR. LU:· Quincy Lu on behalf of JUUL
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`11· Systems, Patent Owner.
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`12· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Matt Sieger from Paul Weiss on
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`13· behalf of Petitioner and the witness.· I'm joined my
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`14· Chris Pepe, also from Paul Weiss.
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`15· · · · · · · · · · ·(Witness sworn in.)
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`16· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Just real quick, do you intend
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`17· to turn your camera on for this?
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`18· · · · · · · · MR. LU:· Okay, give me one second.
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`19· · · · · · · · · · ·JOSEPH MCALEXANDER,
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`20· · ·having first been duly sworn, testified as follows:
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`21· · · · · · · · · · ·DIRECT EXAMINATION
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`22· BY MR. LU:
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`23· · · ·Q.· All right.· Good to see you again, Mr.
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`24· McAlexander.
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`25· · · ·A.· Nice to see there's a face associated with the
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 4 of 25
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`·1· name.· How are you?
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`·2· · · ·Q.· I'm good.· How about you?
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`·3· · · ·A.· Very well.
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`·4· · · ·Q.· Now, for the record, you've been deposed in
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`·5· this proceeding before.· Correct?
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`·6· · · ·A.· That is correct.
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`·7· · · ·Q.· And Mr. McAlexander, where are you located
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`·8· today?
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`·9· · · ·A.· I'm located in Anna, A-N-N-A, Texas.
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`10· · · ·Q.· And are you located at -- is there anybody in
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`11· the room with you?
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`12· · · ·A.· No, there's not.
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`13· · · ·Q.· Do you have any notes or documents in front of
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`14· you?· Let me ask that -- let me reask that.
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`15· · · · · · · · Do you have any documents in front of you?
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`16· · · ·A.· Yes, I have some documents in front of me.
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`17· · · ·Q.· And what are those documents?
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`18· · · ·A.· The documents are hard copies of the U.S.
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`19· Patent 10,130,123.· I have a copy of my declaration in
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`20· support of the petitioner's reply.· I have a copy of the
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`21· petitioner's reply, which is dated November 27th of
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`22· 2024.· I also printed a copy of the attached decision.
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`23· · · · · · · · I have a copy of the supplemental
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`24· declaration of John M. Collins in support of the patent
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`25· owner's response.· I have a copy of the patent owner's
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 5 of 25
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`·1· response.· I also have printed copies of the Worm 658
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`·2· patent, the Levitz 293 lipo.· I also have a copy of the
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`·3· Wigensberg 831 publication and the Thorens 559
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`·4· publication.· Those ones I have in front of me.· I have
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`·5· access to other documents as well as my original
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`·6· declaration.· I have access to those, but they're not
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`·7· directly in front of me.
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`·8· · · ·Q.· Okay.· And with respect to your declaration in
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`·9· support of the petitioner reply, that would be Exhibit
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`10· 1043.· Correct?
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`11· · · ·A.· That's what is labeled on it, yes, 1043.
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`12· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Do you have any notes in front of you?
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`13· · · ·A.· I have one note, and that is when I was
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`14· reading -- preparing for this deposition.· I noted that
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`15· Paragraph 93, that I referenced the wrong cite.· And so
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`16· I put a note in here as to now that needs to be
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`17· corrected.· And I can read that into the record for you?
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`18· That's the only note I have.
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`19· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Can you read it?
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`20· · · ·A.· Sure.· On Paragraph 93, which is on Page 54 of
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`21· Exhibit 1043, the last sentence on that page reads,
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`22· Moreover, in the parallel ITC hearing.· That should
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`23· read, Moreover in the parallel ITC investigation instead
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`24· of hearing.· And then at the top of Page 55, the
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`25· continuation of that sentence reads the same, but the
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 6 of 25
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`·1· Exhibit Number 1050, which was referenced, is not
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`·2· correct.· It should say Exhibit 1036.· 1-0-3-6.· And the
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`·3· page cites from this deposition are 78, Line 1 through
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`·4· 79, Line 20; Page 82, Line 2 through Page 85, Line 13;
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`·5· Page 86, Line 20 through Page 88, Line 8; Page 91, Line
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`·6· 14 through Page 94, Line 13.· And lastly, Page 101, Line
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`·7· 4 through Page 105, Line 19.
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`·8· · · · · · · · So those are just the pages associated with
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`·9· that particular Exhibit Number 1036, which should
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`10· replace the cite to Exhibit 1050.· That's the only note
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`11· I have.
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`12· · · ·Q.· All right.· Give me one second.· Okay.· I'll
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`13· have to take a look at those later.
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`14· · · ·A.· Okay.
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`15· · · ·Q.· Did you -- what did you do to prepare for this
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`16· deposition?
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`17· · · ·A.· I reread through the -- through my declaration
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`18· and the petitioner's reply, the decision.· I reviewed,
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`19· again, the -- Dr. Collin's declaration and a patent
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`20· response.· And I also looked at the '123 patent as well
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`21· as the cited references, Worm, Lamb, Wigensberg, Levitz
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`22· and Thorens.
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`23· · · ·Q.· Did you meet with anybody to prepare for this
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`24· deposition?
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`25· · · ·A.· I met with Counsel, the two counsel that are
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 7 of 25
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`·1· represented here today, yesterday and today, a total of
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`·2· about five, maybe six hours at the most.
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`·3· · · ·Q.· Yesterday and today, a total of five to six
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`·4· hours.· Is that what you said?
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`·5· · · ·A.· Yes, sir, that's correct.
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`·6· · · ·Q.· How did you -- how did you come to the
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`·7· realization that you cited to the wrong document in
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`·8· Paragraph 93 of your -- of Exhibit 1043?
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`·9· · · ·A.· Well, I guess the first -- I guess first is
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`10· just cross referencing within my document itself and
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`11· Exhibit 1050, I highlighted in the documents considered
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`12· as a patent number and I knew that could not possibly be
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`13· correct, so it just led me to reassess what that was and
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`14· that's how I came up with the change that I provided.
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`15· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Mr. McAlexander, are you familiar with
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`16· something called a hot wire anemometer?· That's spelled
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`17· A-N, as in Nancy, E-M, as in Mary, O-M, as in Mary,
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`18· E-T-E-R?· Anemometer.
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`19· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection.
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`20· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) Sorry, let me finish my question.
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`21· · · · · · · · Are you familiar with something called a
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`22· hot wire anemometer?
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`23· · · · · · · · MR. LU:· Go ahead, Counsel.
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`24· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Object to the scope.
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`25· · · ·A.· You said it's an an -- A-N-N-M-O-M-E-T-E-R?
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 8 of 25
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`·1· Did you spell that correctly?
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`·2· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) A-N-E -- A-N-E-M-O-M-E-T-E-R. I
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`·3· believe it's pronounced anemometer?
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`·4· · · ·A.· Yeah, I -- I am not sure exactly to what level
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`·5· of familiarity you're looking at.· I mean, it's used in
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`·6· air crafts specifically for measuring wind velocity in
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`·7· particular.
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`·8· · · ·Q.· And how does it measure wind velocity?
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`·9· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection, scope.· Go ahead,
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`10· Joe.
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`11· · · ·A.· I mean, there are different ways in which
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`12· velocity in an anemometer can be measured, one is using
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`13· vanes.· A lot of times the reason for doing the hot wire
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`14· type is because you also know that wind speed and
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`15· velocity are something that is going to be altimeter
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`16· based as well as temperature based.
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`17· · · · · · · · And so you have to make sure that you've
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`18· accommodated for different variables that can arbitrate
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`19· what that actual reading is.· But that's about the
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`20· extent that I'm aware of them.· I haven't designed one.
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`21· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) Okay.· Speaking to somebody who is
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`22· not familiar with those sort of things, can you explain
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`23· to me how exactly a hot wire anemometer measures wind
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`24· velocity?
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`25· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Scope.
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 9 of 25
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`·1· · · ·A.· How it measures it?
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`·2· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) Yes.
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`·3· · · ·A.· Well, certainly the -- I would say the -- one
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`·4· way in which the -- it does measure velocity is -- the
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`·5· best way to describe this perhaps is if you've seen
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`·6· weather vanes, and weather vanes that stick up on the
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`·7· top of an antenna or a shaft and they have cups on them
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`·8· and the cups are pointed in a certain direction.· And so
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`·9· the cups are done in such a way that -- that the wind,
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`10· depending upon the speed -- let's say the cups are
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`11· orthogonally opposite each other, so in a circle, but
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`12· when the wind picks up and starts to move the cups, they
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`13· begin on this shaft to spin.
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`14· · · · · · · · And so therefore, there is a angular
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`15· momentum of -- that's translated by the cups into a
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`16· rotation.· That rotation speed is then translated into a
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`17· legible signal that corresponds to the velocity of the
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`18· air.· That would be the simplest mechanism that I can
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`19· come up with.
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`20· · · ·Q.· Have you ever heard of something called a vane
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`21· flow sensor?
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`22· · · ·A.· Yeah, I think I mentioned vane prior to -- in
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`23· my previous answer, that vanes is one way that the
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`24· anemometer can work.
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`25· · · ·Q.· Okay.· So --
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 10 of 25
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`·1· · · ·A.· It's similar to the use of cups.
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`·2· · · ·Q.· So what is -- what is -- in a hot wire
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`·3· anemometer, what is the hot wire?· What does that refer
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`·4· to?
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`·5· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection, scope.· Quincy, can
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`·6· you point me to where, in his reply declaration, this is
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`·7· relevant to?
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`·8· · · · · · · · MR. LU:· This is relevant to his testimony
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`·9· about his experience with sensors in general, whether
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`10· flow sensors are pressured sensors.
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`11· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) Do you need me to reask the
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`12· question?
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`13· · · ·A.· Yeah, go ahead, please.
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`14· · · ·Q.· So on a hot wire anemometer, what does the hot
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`15· wire refer to?
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`16· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection, scope.
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`17· · · ·A.· We've talked about -- I have no idea how this
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`18· even applies to this particular aspect of the
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`19· deposition, but hot wire is a mechanism by which rather
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`20· than using a vane or a cup, you use a very thin wire.
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`21· That thin wire or wires is, as I recall, heated to a
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`22· particular control temperature.
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`23· · · · · · · · And -- and when the air moves past that hot
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`24· wire, it's going to create a cooling effect.· And so
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`25· what you have is a mechanism where you have a
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 11 of 25
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`·1· correspondence between the change in temperature and the
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`·2· velocity in the air.· That's generally how that works.
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`·3· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) I see.· And I believe you said
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`·4· rather than using a vane or a cup, you use a very thin
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`·5· wire.· Is that correct?
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`·6· · · ·A.· Yeah, I mean, there are different ways in which
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`·7· an anemometer can be constructed.· You can use a cup,
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`·8· you can use a vain.· Hot wire is another technique and
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`·9· the hot wire gives you a more -- it gives you a
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`10· different -- different way of measuring because you're
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`11· looking at a thermal change rather than just a velocity
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`12· translation from a rotation speed from a -- from a
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`13· wind -- wind velocity.
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`14· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Have you ever heard of a hot film
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`15· anemometer?
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`16· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection, form.
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`17· · · ·A.· Hot film?
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`18· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection, form, scope.
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`19· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) Yes, hot film.
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`20· · · ·A.· Hot fill?
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`21· · · ·Q.· Film.· F-I-L-M.
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`22· · · ·A.· No, I mean, it conjures up what it might mean,
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`23· but I personally have not, no.
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`24· · · ·Q.· Okay.· What about ultrasonic flow sensor?· Are
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`25· you familiar with that?
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 12 of 25
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`·1· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Object to the form, scope.
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`·2· · · ·A.· Yes.
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`·3· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Joe, just give me a second to
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`·4· object.
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`·5· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Okay, thank you.
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`·6· · · ·A.· Yes.
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`·7· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) And your answer?
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`·8· · · ·A.· I have used them in the underwater mechanisms
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`·9· that I was a part of in one of my companies back in the
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`10· 1990s.
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`11· · · ·Q.· Okay.· And can you describe what an ultrasonic
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`12· flow sensor is?
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`13· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection, form, scope.
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`14· · · ·A.· Well, the difference here is you're using sound
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`15· waves.· You're using some type of detection of a change
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`16· and you translate that into electrical image of what is
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`17· passing by.· These are just different mechanisms for
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`18· taking measurements.
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`19· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) Taking measurements of what?
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`20· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection, form.
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`21· · · ·A.· Excuse me, I'm sorry.
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`22· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· That's okay.· Go ahead.
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`23· · · ·A.· It's taking measurements of whatever.· I mean,
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`24· you can use ultrasonic to measure speed.· You can use
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`25· ultrasonic to measure changes in wavelength, you can do
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 13 of 25
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`·1· it in sound.· I mean, it depends on your particular --
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`·2· what your desire is.
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`·3· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) Okay.· So for an ultrasonic flow
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`·4· sensor, is it using ultrasonic to measure air flow?
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`·5· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection, form.
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`·6· · · ·A.· Well, it is, but it depends on where you want
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`·7· to use it.· For instance, you can use an ultrasonic flow
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`·8· meter, for instance, to look at the velocity of a fluid.
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`·9· Basically you can use that to calculate the volume flow.
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`10· That's one way in which it can be done.
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`11· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) Okay.· And have you ever heard of
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`12· an optical sensor for measuring flow?
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`13· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection, form, scope.
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`14· · · ·A.· Yes.
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`15· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) And what is that?
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`16· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection.
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`17· · · ·A.· Well, there are different ways you can do that,
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`18· but optical flow can -- you can actually look at changes
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`19· in pattern.· You have basically an LCD and you can use
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`20· an LCD-type display.· Typically, optical sensors will
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`21· use a sensor scope out of CCD, charged couple devices.
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`22· · · · · · · · And basically what you're looking at,
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`23· pattern recognition.· And when you see changes in
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`24· pattern, that gives you some indication of flow.
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`25· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) With respect to using optical
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 14 of 25
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`·1· sensor to measure air flow, would it be correct to
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`·2· describe it as using light interruption or scattering to
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`·3· detect air flow particles and their velocity?
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`·4· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection, form, scope.
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`·5· · · ·A.· Well, that is certainly a way it can be done.
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`·6· You can actually induce a -- I'll use the word smoke,
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`·7· but you can induce something that has particulates and
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`·8· you can look at the flow of particulates.
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`·9· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) All right.· Give me a second.
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`10· · · · · · · · Can you turn to your declaration, Exhibit
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`11· 1043 at Page 21?
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`12· · · ·A.· I'm on Page 21.
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`13· · · ·Q.· Yep.
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`14· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Just for clarity, is it 21 as
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`15· in 1043.021 or Page 21 as it appears?
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`16· · · · · · · · MR. LU:· Oh, I see.· You're right.
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`17· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) Let's -- let's turn to Paragraph
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`18· 37, which is 1043.024.
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`19· · · ·A.· Thank you for that clarification.· Yes, I'm
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`20· there.
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`21· · · ·Q.· All right.· So there's this annotated Figure 2
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`22· at the bottom of Paragraph 37.· Do you see that?
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`23· · · ·A.· Yes.
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`24· · · ·Q.· And is this something you annotated?
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`25· · · ·A.· In the original doc, yes.
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 15 of 25
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`·1· · · ·Q.· What do you mean in the original doc?
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`·2· · · ·A.· Well, when I was highlighting Figure 2, just to
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`·3· point out the difference, the 22978 numbers are there.
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`·4· But in developing this report, yes, the protrusion 229
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`·5· and recess 278 have been annotated.· They've been added.
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`·6· · · ·Q.· Okay, I see.· And this is a figure -- this is
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`·7· figure -- an annotated Figure 2 from the Worm reference.
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`·8· Correct?
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`·9· · · ·A.· Right, which is Exhibit 1004.
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`10· · · ·Q.· Yes.· And so you annotated this protrusion 229
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`11· in green.· Right?
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`12· · · ·A.· That is correct.
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`13· · · ·Q.· Now, there is no corresponding protrusion at
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`14· the top of this device.· Right?
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`15· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection, form.
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`16· · · ·A.· Well, this -- the direct answer to your
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`17· question is no, there's not, but protrusions do not have
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`18· to be orthogonal each other.· This is a cross-section.
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`19· So if you look at it spherically, there could be other
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`20· protrusions.· It doesn't have to be limited to just one,
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`21· but there is a cross-section here, which at least shows
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`22· one.
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`23· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) Right.· And so we can conclude that
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`24· from a lack of a protrusion at the top, that this
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`25· protrusion 229 does not circle around the entire device.
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 16 of 25
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`·1· Right?
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`·2· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Form.
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`·3· · · ·A.· I would say that that -- it doesn't preempt it
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`·4· from, but it certainly, in this particular embodiment,
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`·5· it does not circle all the way around.
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`·6· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) All right.· And the same thing for
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`·7· the recess 278, there is no corresponding recess at the
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`·8· top of the device.· Correct?
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`·9· · · ·A.· Yes, but I want to qualify one thing.· A recess
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`10· or a protrusion can be just a small spot.· It can be
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`11· multiple spots, but you can also have a recess and
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`12· protrusion as angular, angular shaped.· It's not
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`13· directly surrounding.· It's like an oval rather than a
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`14· circle.
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`15· · · · · · · · And therefore, it would not appear on the
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`16· top here because it would be offset from it to the
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`17· right.· So it could be totally circle -- it could -- it
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`18· could include the entire circumference, but it would not
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`19· be in the direct circular arrangement on top.· I hope
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`20· I'm clear on that.
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`21· · · ·Q.· And so the protrusion -- so the purpose of the
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`22· protrusion is to go into the recess when these two
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`23· pieces are put together.· Correct?
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`24· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection, form.
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`25· · · ·A.· Right, yeah --
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 17 of 25
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`·1· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Just -- just a reminder to
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`·2· pause and give me time to object.· Go ahead and answer.
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`·3· · · ·A.· It -- the combination of the protrusion and the
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`·4· recess provide a mechanism where you can kind of, I
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`·5· would say, interlock, but it certainly registers during
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`·6· the engagement, the two components, 204 and 202.
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`·7· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) And the purpose of interlocking
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`·8· these two components is so that they don't move relative
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`·9· to each other.· Right?
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`10· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection, form.
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`11· · · ·A.· I would say that's one of the purposes by how
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`12· you place the protrusion in the recess.· The way they
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`13· then register with each other, you can define how close
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`14· or how far away you want the gap between the two to
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`15· exist.· So that's something that is up to the designer;
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`16· and upon the designer's particular application, it
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`17· registers it.
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`18· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) And it would actually be
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`19· undesirable if the protrusion and recess were loose
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`20· enough such that the components were moving relative to
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`21· one another during use.· Is that right?
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`22· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection, form.
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`23· · · ·A.· Well, that depends on the particular
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`24· application that the designer desires to evoke.
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`25· · · · · · · · It is -- I'll use the word register because
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 18 of 25
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`·1· basically it registers the body to the cartridge, 202 to
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`·2· 204 registers and creates a way in which they are
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`·3· connected together and registered to stay about in that
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`·4· same place.· When you ask, is it desirable?· Well,
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`·5· certainly if someone has an e-cigarette and it's sloppy,
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`·6· it's very loose, that's certainly not going to be a good
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`·7· experience.· So I would anticipate that one would
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`·8· certainly want to minimize the amount of movement, but
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`·9· it doesn't mean that it can't move.
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`10· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) You're familiar with differential
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`11· pressure sensors.· Right?
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`12· · · ·A.· Yes.
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`13· · · ·Q.· And a differential -- am I correct that a
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`14· differential pressure sensor can -- measures the
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`15· difference in pressure at two different points?
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`16· · · ·A.· No, that's not correct.
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`17· · · ·Q.· Can a differential pressure sensor measure a
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`18· change in pressure without air flow?
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`19· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection, form.
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`20· · · ·A.· It depends on the application.
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`21· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) So it's possible?
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`22· · · ·A.· It's possible --
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`23· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Objection, form.
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`24· · · ·A.· It is possible that a differential sensor can
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`25· measure differential pressure.· When -- let's say an
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 19 of 25
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`
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`·1· example.· Air flow occurs somewhere, but not -- not at
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`·2· the -- at the particular differential pressure subcenter
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`·3· itself.· It can still detect a differential pressure
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`·4· based upon air flow, but it's indirect.· It's not
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`·5· because -- because of whether or not air flow has to
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`·6· exist at the particular center itself.
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`·7· · · · · · · · And by the way, I just want to clear up
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`·8· this loop.· Your question before was not accurately
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`·9· asked.· Differential pressure does not measure the
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`10· pressure difference at two different points.· It
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`11· measures the difference between two points.
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`12· · · ·Q.· (By Mr. Lu) I see.· Thank you for that
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`13· clarification.· Okay.· So can we take like a short
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`14· five-minute break?· I want to take a look at the
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`15· revision that you -- to your declaration that you made
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`16· and see if I want to ask any questions about that.
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`17· Otherwise, I think we're close to wrapping up.
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`18· · · ·A.· All right.· Five minutes?
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`19· · · ·Q.· That works for me.· Yep.
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`20· · · · · · · ·(Off the record at 12:36 p.m.)
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`21· · · · · · · · · · · ·(Brief recess.)
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`22· · · · · · ·(Back on the record at 12:47 p.m.)
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`23· · · · · · · · MR. LU:· Okay, I pass the witness.
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`24· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· I have no questions.
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`25· · · · · · · · COURT REPORTER:· Mr. Sieger, were you going
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 20 of 25
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`·1· to want to purchase a copy of this transcript?
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`·2· · · · · · · · MR. SIEGER:· Yep, we'll take a copy.
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`·3· · · · · ·(Deposition concluded at 12:47 p.m.)
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 21 of 25
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`·1· · · · · · · · · ··REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
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`·2· · · · · · I, GABRIELA S. SILVA, CSR No. 8706, RPR,
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`·3· Registered Professional Reporter, certify that the
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`·4· foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the time
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`·5· and place therein set forth, at which time the witness
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`·6· was put under oath by me; that the testimony of the
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`·7· witness, the questions propounded, and all objections
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`·8· and statements made at the time of the examination were
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`·9· recorded stenographically by me and were thereafter
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`10· transcribed; that the foregoing is a true and correct
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`11· transcript of my shorthand notes to taken.
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`12· · · · · · I further certify that I am not a relative or
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`13· employee of any attorney or the parties, nor financially
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`14· interested in the action.· I declare under penalty of
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`15· perjury under the laws of Texas that the foregoing is
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`16· true and correct.· Dated this
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`17· _______________________,2025.
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`18
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`19
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`21
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`22
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`23· · · · · · · · ·Gabriela S. Silva, Texas CSR, RPR, CRR
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`24
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`25
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 22 of 25
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`·1· · · · · · · · · DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET
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`·2
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`·3· Our Assignment No. J12232115
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`·4· Case Caption: NJOY LLC ET AL
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`·5· Vs. JUUL LABS, INC.
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`·6
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`·7
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`·8· · · · · · DECLARATION UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY
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`·9· I declare under penalty of perjury that I have read the
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`10· entire transcript of my deposition taken in the
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`11· captioned matter or the same has been read to me, and
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`12· the same is true and accurate, save and except for
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`13· changes and/or corrections, if any, as indicated by me
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`14· on the DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET hereof, with the
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`15· understanding that I offer these changes as if still
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`16· under oath.
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`17· · · · · · Signed on the _________ day of
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`18· ______________________, 2025.
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`19
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`20
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`21· · · · · · · · · · · · ·_________________________________
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`22· · · · · · · · · · · · ·Joseph McAlexander
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`23
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`24
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`25
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 23 of 25
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`·1· · · · · · · · · ·DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET
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`·2· Page No._______Line No.__________Change to:_____________
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`·3· ________________________________________________________
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`·4· Reason for change:______________________________________
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`·5· Page No._______Line No.__________Change to:_____________
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`·6· ________________________________________________________
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`·7· Reason for change:______________________________________
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`·8· Page No._______Line No.__________Change to:_____________
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`·9· ________________________________________________________
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`10· Reason for change:______________________________________
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`11· Page No._______Line No.__________Change to:_____________
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`12· ________________________________________________________
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`13· Reason for change:______________________________________
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`14· Page No._______Line No.__________Change to:_____________
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`15· ________________________________________________________
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`16· Reason for change:______________________________________
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`17· Page No._______Line No.__________Change to:_____________
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`18· ________________________________________________________
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`19· Reason for change:______________________________________
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`20· Page No._______Line No.__________Change to:_____________
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`21· ________________________________________________________
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`22· Reason for change:______________________________________
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`23
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`24· SIGNATURE:_____________________________DATE:____________
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`25· · · · · · Joseph McAlexander
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 24 of 25
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET
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`·2· Page No._______Line No.__________Change to:_____________
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`·3· ________________________________________________________
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`·4· Reason for change:______________________________________
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`·5· Page No._______Line No.__________Change to:_____________
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`·6· ________________________________________________________
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`·7· Reason for change:______________________________________
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`·8· Page No._______Line No.__________Change to:_____________
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`·9· ________________________________________________________
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`10· Reason for change:______________________________________
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`11· Page No._______Line No.__________Change to:_____________
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`12· ________________________________________________________
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`13· Reason for change:______________________________________
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`14· Page No._______Line No.__________Change to:_____________
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`15· ________________________________________________________
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`16· Reason for change:______________________________________
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`17· Page No._______Line No.__________Change to:_____________
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`18· ________________________________________________________
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`19· Reason for change:______________________________________
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`20· Page No._______Line No.__________Change to:_____________
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`21· ________________________________________________________
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`22· Reason for change:______________________________________
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`23
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`24· SIGNATURE:_____________________________DATE:____________
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`25· · · · · · Joseph McAlexander
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`JLI Ex. 2054, Page 25 of 25
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