David Crane
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`SUPERCELL OY,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`v.
`
`GREE, INC.,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`Post Grant Review Nos. PGR2018-00029 & PGR2018-00047
`
`Patents 9,636,583 & 9,770,659
`
`____________________________________________________
`
`DEPOSITION OF DAVID CRANE
`
`Volume 1
`
`San Mateo, California
`
`Tuesday, February 12, 2019
`
`Reported by:
`
`Ashala Tylor,
`
`CSR #2436, CLR, CRR, RPR
`
`JOB NO. 3208213
`
`Pages 1 - 166
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 1
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`SUPERCELL OY,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`v.
`
`GREE, INC.,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`Post Grant Review Nos. PGR2018-00029 & PGR2018-00047
`
`Patents 9,636,583 & 9,770,659
`
`____________________________________________________
`
`DEPOSITION OF DAVID CRANE
`
`Volume 1
`
`San Mateo, California
`
`Tuesday, February 12, 2019
`
`Reported by:
`
`Ashala Tylor,
`
`CSR #2436, CLR, CRR, RPR
`
`JOB NO. 3208213
`
`Pages 1 - 166
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 1
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`
`
`David Crane
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` SUPERCELL OY,
`
` Petitioner,
`
` v.
`
` GREE, INC.,
`
` Patent Owner.
`
` Post Grant Review Nos. PGR2018-00029 & PGR2018-00047
`
` Patents 9,636,583 & 9,770,659
`
` ____________________________________________________
`
` Deposition of DAVID CRANE, taken at Kilpatrick
`
`Townsend & Stockton LLP, 1080 Marsh Road, Menlo Park,
`
`California, commencing at 9:03 a.m. and ending at
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`4:00 p.m., on Tuesday, February 12, 2019, before Ashala
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`Tylor, CSR No 2436, RPR, CRR, CLR.
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 2
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`
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`A P P E A R A N C E S O F C O U N S E L :
`
`David Crane
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`F O R S U P E R C E L L O Y :
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` F E N W I C K & W E S T L L P
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` B Y : M I C H A E L J . S A C K S T E D E R , E S Q .
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` J E N N I F E R R . B U S H , E S Q .
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` G E O F F R E Y M I L L E R , E S Q .
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` S i l i c o n V a l l e y C e n t e r
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` 8 0 1 C a l i f o r n i a S t r e e t
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` M o u n t a i n V i e w , C a l i f o r n i a 9 4 0 4 1
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` 6 5 0 . 9 8 8 . 8 5 0 0
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` m s a c k s t e d e r @ f e n w i c k . c o m
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` j b u s h @ f e n w i c k . c o m
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` g m i l l e r @ f e n w i c k . c o m
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`F O R G R E E , I N C . :
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` K I L P A T R I C K T O W N S E N D & S T O C K T O N L L P
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` B Y : A N D R E W W . R I N E H A R T , E S Q .
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` 1 0 0 1 W e s t F o u r t h S t r e e t
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` W i n s t o n - S a l e m , N o r t h C a r o l i n a 2 7 1 0 1
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` 3 3 6 . 6 0 7 . 7 3 1 2
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 3
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`A P P E A R A N C E S ( c o n t i n u e d )
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`David Crane
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`F O R G R E E , I N C . :
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` K I L P A T R I C K T O W N S E N D & S T O C K T O N L L P .
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` B Y : S C O T T K O L A S S A , E S Q .
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` 1 0 8 0 M a r s h R o a d
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` M e n l o P a r k , C a l i f o r n i a 9 4 0 2 5
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 4
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`
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` I N D E X
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`David Crane
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`WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
`
`DAVID CRANE
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` Mr. Sacksteder 7, 88
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` E X H I B I T S
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`NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
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`(Marked in a prior deposition of David Crane)
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`Exhibit 1001 Patent No.: US 9,636,583 B2 7
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`Exhibit 2002 Declaration of David Crane 7
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` INFORMATION REQUESTED
`
` (None)
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` QUESTIONS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER
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` Page 8, Line 19
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` San Mateo, California; Tuesday, February 12, 2019
`
`David Crane
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` 9:03 a.m.
`
` --o0o--
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: So before we get started, I
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`think we have a -- I guess what you would describe as a
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`stipulation.
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` This is a deposition that is being taken in
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`two post-grant review proceedings before the Patent
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`Trial and Appeal Board between Supercell OY and GREE,
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`Incorporated. The first of those is Case Number
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`PGR2018-00029. It relates to U.S. Patent Number
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`9,636,583. And the second is Case Number PGR2018-00047,
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`and it relates to U.S. Patent 9,770,659.
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` And Counsel for GREE and I spoke before we
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`went on the record today and have agreed that we are not
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`going to attempt to strictly delineate when the
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`questioning relates the first PGR or the second PGR. I
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`will attempt to be clear in my questions since there are
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`the same exhibit numbers for Mr. Crane's declaration and
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`the patents, et cetera, in both PGRs.
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` Is that acceptable, to you, Mr. Rinehart?
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` MR. RINEHART: Yes, that is acceptable with
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`the understanding that the product from today will be a
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`single transcript that will be filed as an exhibit in
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`David Crane
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`both proceedings.
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: That's correct.
`
` DAVID CRANE,
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` being first duly sworn or affirmed to testify
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` to the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
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` the truth, was examined and testified as follows:
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` EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. All right. Good morning, Mr. Crane.
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` A. Good morning. I'm going to put in front of
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`you first Exhibit 1001 from the PGR that relates to the
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`'583 patent. And that is the '583 patent itself.
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` (Exhibit 1001 was previously marked
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` for identification and attached
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` hereto.)
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. And I'm also going to hand you from the same
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`PGR your declaration entitled "Declaration of
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`David Crane." It is identified as Exhibit 2002.
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` (Exhibit 2002 was previously marked
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` for identification and attached
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` hereto.)
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. And those both are from the PGR that relate to
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`U.S. Patent 9,636,583. Will you understand that when I
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 7
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`David Crane
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`refer to the '583 patent during this deposition, I'll be
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`referring to U.S. Patent 9,636,583?
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` A. Yes.
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` MR. RINEHART: May I please get a copy of
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`those?
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: Yes. It's so complicated I
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`forgot about you.
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` MR. RINEHART: It's all good.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. Okay. Would you look at Exhibit 2002, please.
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`What is Exhibit 2002?
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` A. This appears to be the declaration that I
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`filed in the 029 proceeding, and it appears to be
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`complete.
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` Q. The very last paragraph, paragraph 60, says,
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`"I note that my analysis is continuing and that I may
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`modify or supplement my conclusions as I receive
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`additional information."
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` Have you been asked to modify or supplement
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`your conclusions in Exhibit 2002?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Privilege.
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` Don't answer.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. Do you expect to modify or supplement your
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`opinions that are stated in Exhibit 2002?
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`Page 8
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`David Crane
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` A. As I state in my declaration, I may modify or
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`supplement my conclusions.
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` Q. Do you have any reason to believe that you are
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`likely to do so?
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` A. As I sit here today, I don't have any reason
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`to believe that I'm likely to do so.
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` Q. Have you done any work on modifying or
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`supplementing your conclusions in Exhibit 2002?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: I believe that my conclusions
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`remain the same as at the point I signed this
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`declaration.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. Do you consider Exhibit 2002 to be a complete
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`statement of your opinions in PGR 29?
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` A. I consider this declaration to be a complete
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`representation of my opinions of the elements that I
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`addressed in this declaration.
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` Q. Do you expect to address any additional
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`elements beyond those that are addressed in your
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`declaration?
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` A. I don't know if that will happen or not.
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` Q. Do you have any reason to believe that you
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`will be doing that?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Privilege.
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 9
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`David Crane
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: I don't think you can hide
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`the ball like that, Andy. If he has additional
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`opinions, I need to be able to ask him about them and
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`this is his deposition in this trial.
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` MR. RINEHART: I agree with that. But if --
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`so you can answer the question to the extent that you
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`don't reveal anything that you and I talked about.
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` THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the question?
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. Do you have any reason to believe that you
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`will be doing that; that is, addressing additional
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`issues that are not currently addressed in your
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`declaration?
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` MR. RINEHART: Okay. Same objection to
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`privilege. Same instruction. You can answer. Just
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`don't tell him what we talked about.
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` THE WITNESS: Can you re-form the question
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`since it came in two parts?
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. I asked you, "Do you expect to address any
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`additional elements beyond those that are addressed in
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`your declaration," correct?
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` A. You asked me do I expect to.
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` Q. Uh-huh.
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` A. And what was my response.
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`Exhibit 1009
`Page 10
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`David Crane
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` Q. "I don't know if that will happen or not."
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` And then I asked you, "Do you have any reason
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`to believe that you will be doing that?"
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` MR. RINEHART: Same objection. Same
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`instruction. Just don't tell him what we talked about.
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` THE WITNESS: Same answer. I don't know if
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`that will happen or not.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. Do you have any reason to believe that you
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`will be doing that?
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` MR. RINEHART: Same objection. Same
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`instruction.
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` THE WITNESS: I don't know if I will be doing
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`that or not.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. Under what circumstances would you be
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`supplementing or modifying your declaration?
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` A. As I indicate in my declaration, if I receive
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`additional information, I may modify or supplement my
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`conclusions.
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` Q. Have you received any additional information
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`that would cause you to supplement or modify your
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`conclusions?
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` MR. RINEHART: Same objection as to privilege.
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`Same instruction as before.
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 11
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`David Crane
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: Hold on one second.
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` His declaration contains a list of materials
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`he considered in forming his opinions. If he has been
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`provided additional information, I am entitled to know
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`what that information is.
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` MR. RINEHART: And so as you phrased that
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`question then, that's fine.
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: I asked him a yes-or-no
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`question, "Have you received any additional information
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`that would cause you to supplement or modify your
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`conclusions?" And I think he can answer that question.
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` THE WITNESS: As I sit here today, I have not
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`received any additional information that would cause me
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`to modify or supplement my conclusions.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q. Do you have -- strike that.
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` Have you received any indication that you will
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`in the future receive additional information that would
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`cause you to modify or supplement your conclusions?
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` A. I don't believe so.
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` Q. Paragraph 16 of Exhibit 2002 in the 00029 PGR
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`is the list of materials you considered, correct?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And you write in paragraph 16, "I have
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`reviewed and considered the following documents in
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 12
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`forming the opinions set forth in my declaration,"
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`David Crane
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`correct?
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` A. That is correct.
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` Q. You specify documents, correct?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Have you received information in any other
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`form -- for instance, by an oral conversation -- that
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`was part of forming the opinions set forth in your
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`declaration?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Privilege. If
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`that's a yes-or-no question --
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. I'm excluding any conversations you might have
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`had with counsel.
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` THE WITNESS: As I indicate in my declaration,
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`I also relied on my training, knowledge and experience
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`in the relevant art. That would include conversations I
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`may have had over the last 30 years.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. Since -- when were you retained to provide
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`this declaration?
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` A. I don't recall exactly, but it was, I believe,
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`sometime in 2018.
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` Q. Have you -- excluding counsel, have you had
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`conversations with anybody else about the subject matter
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 13
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`David Crane
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`of your declaration since the time that you were
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`retained to provide a declaration in support of GREE's
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`position?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection to form.
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` THE WITNESS: I don't believe so.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. Since your declaration was filed, have you
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`considered any other documents besides those listed in
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`paragraph 16?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Have you ever spoken to the named inventor on
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`the '583 patent?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Beside counsel, have you spoken to anyone else
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`on the subject matter of the '583 patent?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection to form.
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` THE WITNESS: I could have had any number of
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`conversations that included subject matter relating to
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`this patent.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. With whom?
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` A. With anyone I come into contact with on a
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`daily basis.
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` Q. Are you referring to any specific
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`conversations?
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` A. No.
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`David Crane
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` Q. What did you mean when you said "I could have
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`had any number of conversations that included subject
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`matter relating to this patent"?
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` A. This patent relates to a video game invention,
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`and I speak to people about video games all the time.
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` Q. Have you -- to your recollection, have you
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`spoken to anyone since you reviewed the '583 patent
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`about any specific aspects of the subject matter of the
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`'583 patent?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: To my recollection, I don't
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`recall speaking specifically of any aspect of this
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`patent.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q. What were you asked to do in preparing this
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`declaration?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Privilege.
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: Whose privilege are we
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`asserting here?
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` MR. RINEHART: The attorney-client privilege.
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: Who is the client?
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` MR. RINEHART: Mr. Crane has been retained by
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`Kilpatrick Townsend on behalf of the client GREE.
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: And so are you representing
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 15
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`David Crane
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`Mr. Crane in asserting the privilege or are you
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`representing GREE in asserting the privilege.
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` MR. RINEHART: I'm representing Mr. Crane for
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`the purpose of this deposition and I'm representing GREE
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`in the PGR proceedings.
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: And are you -- and you are
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`asserting privilege. Whose privilege are you asserting:
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`GREE's or Mr. Crane's?
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` MR. RINEHART: In response to your specific
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`question, I'm asserting privilege with respect to
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`Mr. Crane.
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: Mr. Rinehart, do you believe
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`that you were providing legal advice to Mr. Crane when
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`counsel provided subject matter for Mr. Crane to work on
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`regarding his declaration?
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` MR. RINEHART: Your question asked him what he
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`was asked to do, and his communications have been with
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`me. So that is an attorney-client privileged
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`communication.
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: I don't think you get that
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`here. I think that he prepared a declaration that was
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`publicly filed and his task in preparing that
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`declaration is something that's fair game for me to ask
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`about, and I would urge you to retract your privilege
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`objection.
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 16
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`David Crane
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` MR. RINEHART: I think there's testimony in
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`the declaration that specifically states what he was
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`asked to do. So maybe that can be a starting off point
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`that isn't an objectionable question.
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: Okay. If his declaration
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`states what he was asked to do, then I don't see how you
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`can possibly assert privilege in what he -- a question
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`about what he was asked to do. At the very least, it's
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`waiver, and I don't think it's privileged in the first
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`place.
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` MR. RINEHART: So if -- if it's stated in the
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`declaration, then I don't know why you need to ask him
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`about it in the first place. But regardless of that, if
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`you're getting at something that is not within his
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`declaration about what he was asked to do, then it's an
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`attorney-client privileged communication.
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: I don't agree with that. I
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`think that's wrong and we'll take it up with the board.
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` MR. RINEHART: So I'm not instructing the
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`witness not to answer the question. I'm just telling
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`the witness not to reveal anything that he and I
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`specifically talked about that's not in his declaration.
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: I don't think you're entitled
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`to do that if it's something that was part of his task
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`in forming his opinions in this case.
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 17
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`David Crane
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` Let me ask him a different question.
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` MR. RINEHART: Okay.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q. Were you asked to form opinions in this case?
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` A. I was.
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` Q. What opinions were you asked to form?
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` A. I was asked to analyze the patent
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`specification and claims from the standpoint of a person
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`of ordinary skill in the art.
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` Q. And to conclude what?
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` A. And to conclude what I -- whatever I would
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`conclude.
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` Q. On what subject matters?
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` A. I formed opinions on the inventive game play
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`that a person of ordinary skill in the art would glean
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`from reading the patent specification and how it's
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`claimed. I formed some opinions about how a person of
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`ordinary skill in the art would understand certain claim
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`terms. I formed opinions on how a person of ordinary
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`skill in the art would understand how the specification
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`is written and what are claimed. And I placed those
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`opinions in a readable form in my declaration.
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` Q. All of those opinions are expressed in your
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`declaration, correct?
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` A. I believe so.
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 18
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`David Crane
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` Q. And there are no opinions that you hold
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`regarding the '583 patent that are not expressed in your
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`declaration; is that correct?
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` A. I don't know that that's the case. The
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`opinions that I formed that I put in my declaration are
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`my opinions.
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` Q. Do you have any additional opinions concerning
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`the '583 patent that are not expressed in your
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`declaration?
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` A. I think that will have to come up in
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`questioning. If there are opinions that expound on what
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`I wrote, I may provide them.
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` Q. Can you think of any as you sit here right
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`now?
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` A. I think we will just have to see what
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`questions bring up what recollections.
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` Q. In making a privilege objection earlier,
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`counsel referenced the opinions that are stated in your
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`declaration versus what you were asked to do beyond what
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`is stated in your declaration, so I'm asking you a
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`yes-or-no question.
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` Is there anything else that counsel asked you
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`to opine about with regard to the '583 patent that is
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`not expressed in your declaration?
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` MR. RINEHART: Object to form.
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 19
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` THE WITNESS: Could I hear that question
`
`David Crane
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`again?
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. Is there anything else that counsel asked you
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`to opine about with regard to the '583 patent that is
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`not expressed in your declaration?
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` MR. RINEHART: Same objection.
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` THE WITNESS: Well, without revealing
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`privileged information, I will say that I was asked to
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`form an opinion or perform -- to form opinions on this
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`patent, and I included my opinions in this declaration.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. Were you asked to form certain opinions that,
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`for whatever reason, did not end up being expressed in
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`your declaration?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: I don't recall any specific
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`example of being asked to form an opinion that did not
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`end up in this declaration.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. Turn to page 14 of Exhibit 2002 in the 00029
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`PGR. Starting at paragraph 31 and continuing through
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`paragraph 44, you are discussing assertions that certain
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`limitations of the claim in the '583 patent are
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`indefinite, correct?
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 20
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` A. In that section I'm asserting that in my
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`opinion, based on what I believe to be the understanding
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`of a person of ordinary skill in the art, those claim
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`terms would not be indefinite.
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` Q. All right. So you're addressing assertions
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`that the claim terms are indefinite that were made by
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`Supercell, correct?
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` A. I'm addressing claim terms that I believe are
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`not indefinite. I don't recall that those are exactly
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`the claim terms that Supercell claimed were indefinite.
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` Q. Okay. Fair enough. So the first one of the
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`claim terms that you address is panel, correct?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Are you familiar with panel as that term is
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`used in the '583 patent?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And also the '659 patent?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And those two patents contain the same
`
`specifications, so is it your understanding that the
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`terms that are used in the claims of those two patents
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`are intended to be used the same way?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: It's my understanding that the
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`specifications are at least very similar and intended to
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 21
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`David Crane
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`be interpreted the same way.
`
`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q. All right. As used in the '583 and '659
`
`patents, what's a panel?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: As I state in my declaration, a
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`panel is a logical construct that includes various
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`properties. The specification lists some of those
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`properties, or I list many properties, and I included at
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`least some of them. Information regarding the size of
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`each panel, information regarding the capability of each
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`panel, the strength of the capability, size of the
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`panel, et cetera.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q. So what did you mean when you wrote that the
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`term panel is a -- or the concept of a panel, I guess,
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`is a logical construct?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
`
`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q. Let me ask that again.
`
` You wrote the panel is a logical construct,
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`correct?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. What did you mean when you wrote that?
`
` A. I suppose it's a technical way of saying it's
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 22
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`a thing.
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` Q. It's a thing?
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` A. It's a logical construct.
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` Q. What kind of logical construct is it? Strike
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`that.
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` Beyond "a thing," do you have any other
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`definition that you can provide for the term "logical
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`construct" as you used it in paragraph 32 of your
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`declaration?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: As I used the term in
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`paragraph 32, it is an element that can be stored and
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`contains properties.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q. Is that your entire definition of the term
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`"logical construct" as you used it in paragraph 32 of
`
`your declaration?
`
` A. The term "logical construct" certainly can
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`have additional meaning. In paragraph 32, I was
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`referring to it as an item, thing, an element, and
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`provided some of the properties that that thing, item,
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`element would have in the context of this patent.
`
` Q. All right. So when you said that a panel is a
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`logical construct, you meant that a panel is an element
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`that can be stored and contains properties, correct?
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 23
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`David Crane
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection.
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` THE WITNESS: At the very least, yes.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q. All right. And then you go on to say some
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`other things about a panel. Specifically you say it's
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`stored in a panel database, correct?
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` A. In the '583 patent, the panel is stored in a
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`panel database.
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` Q. What is a panel database?
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` A. A panel database is a database that can
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`contain panels.
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` Q. What do you mean by "contain panels"?
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` A. A database contains data, which means it can
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`contain data which are logical constructs. And in this
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`case, it can contain a logical construct which is
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`referred to as a panel.
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` Q. All right. So a panel database contains
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`logical constructs that have the attributes of a panel.
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`Is that a fair definition?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection.
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` THE WITNESS: At the very least, a panel
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`database would contain logical constructs that represent
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`a panel.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q. What else could it contain?
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`Exhibit 1009
`Page 24
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`David Crane
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` A. It could contain other information. But by
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`referring to it as a panel database, we are emphasizing
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`the fact that it is expected to contain panels.
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` Q. Does it really contain the panel or does it
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`just contain the data that makes up a panel?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: The panel is a logical
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`construct, which is data, so it's both.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q. In paragraph 11 of your declaration, you list
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`some of the game titles for which you are responsible
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`for the design and/or program, correct?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And there are dozens of game titles listed in
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`paragraph 11, correct?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And those are all game titles that you're very
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`familiar with because you either designed them or
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`programmed them, or both, correct?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE REPORTER: Can you speak up with your
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`objections, please?
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` MR. RINEHART: Of course. I'm sorry.
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`Objection, form.
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` THE REPORTER: Thank you.
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 25
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`David Crane
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` THE WITNESS: I at least have been familiar
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`with them at some point in the last three decades.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. All right. Can you identify any of the game
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`titles that are listed in paragraph 11 of your
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`declaration that do not contain elements that can be
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`stored and contain properties?
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` A. I believe that all of these games have
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`elements that can be stored and contain properties.
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` Q. So all of the games listed in paragraph 11
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`employ logical constructs, correct?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: Of one form or another, yes,
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`they do.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q. All right. And then the next thing in
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`paragraph 32, if you can return there, is -- we're still
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`in the first sentence of paragraph 32. You say, "The
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`'583 panel is a logical construct stored in a panel
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`database and a concrete graphical user interface
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`element."
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` Do you see that?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. What did you mean by a "concrete graphical
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`user interface element"?
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 26
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`David Crane
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` A. I'm referring to the patent specification is
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`very specific as to what they mean by a panel. And it
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`includes well-defined graphical user interface
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`components.
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` Q. What are those components?
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` A. Those components include the panel's size and
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`shape and presentation on the screen, color, animation,
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`and layout, among others.
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` Q. Let's start with size. What -- what -- strike
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`that.
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` What particularly do we need to know about the
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`size of an on-screen element to determine whether it is
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`a panel or not?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: The panel described in the
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`'583 patent is of a certain size or shape based on a
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`number of elements in the specifications, including its
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`capability and relative size to other panels.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. So I'm -- imagine I'm a game developer and I'm
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`trying to develop a game and I don't want to infringe
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`your patent or infringe your client's patent, and I
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`understand that there is something about the size of a
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`panel or the size of a screen element that makes it
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`either a panel or not a panel.
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
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`Page 27
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1009
`Page 27
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`
`
`David Crane
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` How do I know one way or another whether it's
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`a panel or not?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I assume that your hypothetical
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`game designer is a person of ordinary skill in the art.
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`And, as I point out in my declaration, I believe that a
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`person of ordinary skill in the art, upon reading the
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`specification and claims, understands what a panel is
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`and, therefore, would know whether or not a game he is
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`designing might infringe this patent.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q. Can you provide any detail whatsoever about
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`what that person of ordinary skill in the art would look
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`at to determine whether or not the game might infringe
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`the patent?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Fo
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