UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`______________________________
`
`SUPERCELL OY, )
`
`) Post Grant Review
`
`Petitioner, ) Nos. PGR2018-00029
`
`)
`
`PGR2018-00047
`
`vs. )
`
`GREE, INC., )
`
`9,770,659
`
`) Patents 9,636,583
`
`Patent Owner. )
`
`______________________________)
`
`)
`
`DEPOSITION OF DAVID CRANE
`
`Menlo Park, California
`
`Thursday, February 28, 2019
`
`Volume II
`
`Reported by:
`
`CATHERINE A. RYAN, RMR, CRR
`
`CSR No. 8239
`
`Job No. 3234701
`
`PAGES 167 - 279
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`Page 167
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1012
`Page 1
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`
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`______________________________
`
`SUPERCELL OY, )
`
`) Post Grant Review
`
`Petitioner, ) Nos. PGR2018-00029
`
`)
`
`PGR2018-00047
`
`vs. )
`
`GREE, INC., )
`
`9,770,659
`
`) Patents 9,636,583
`
`Patent Owner. )
`
`______________________________)
`
`)
`
`DEPOSITION OF DAVID CRANE
`
`Menlo Park, California
`
`Thursday, February 28, 2019
`
`Volume II
`
`Reported by:
`
`CATHERINE A. RYAN, RMR, CRR
`
`CSR No. 8239
`
`Job No. 3234701
`
`PAGES 167 - 279
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`Page 167
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1012
`Page 1
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`
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`______________________________
`
`SUPERCELL OY, )
`
` ) Post Grant Review
`
` Petitioner, ) Nos. PGR2018-00029
`
` ) PGR2018-00047
`
`vs. )
`
` ) Patents 9,636,583
`
`GREE, INC., ) 9,770,659
`
` )
`
` Patent Owner. )
`
`______________________________)
`
` Deposition of DAVID CRANE, Volume I, taken on
`
`behalf of Petitioner, at Kilpatrick, Townsend &
`
`Stockton, LLP, 1080 Marsh Road, Menlo Park, California,
`
`beginning at 10:03 a.m. and ending at 3:09 p.m., on
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`Thursday, February 28, 2019, before CATHERINE A. RYAN,
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`Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 8239.
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1012
`Page 2
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`
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S :
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`F o r P e t i t i o n e r S U P E R C E L L O Y :
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` F E N W I C K & W E S T , L L P
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` B Y : M I C H A E L J . S A C K S T E D E R
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` G E O F F R E Y M I L L E R
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` A t t o r n e y s a t L a w
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` 8 0 1 C a l i f o r n i a S t r e e t
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` M o u n t a i n V i e w , C a l i f o r n i a 9 4 0 4 1
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` ( 4 1 5 ) 8 7 5 - 2 4 5 0
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` m s a c k s t e d e r @ f e n w i c k . c o m
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` g m i l l e r @ f e n w i c k . c o m
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`F o r P a t e n t O w n e r G R E E , I N C . :
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` K I L P A T R I C K , T O W N S E N D & S T O C K T O N , L L P
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` B Y : A N D R E W W . R I N E H A R T
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` A t t o r n e y a t L a w
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` 1 0 0 1 W e s t F o u r t h S t r e e t
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` W i n s t o n - S a l e m , N o r t h C a r o l i n a 2 7 1 0 1
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` ( 3 3 6 ) 6 0 7 - 7 3 1 2
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` a r i n e h a r t @ k i l p a t r i c k t o w n s e n d . c o m
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1012
`Page 3
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`
`
` INDEX
`
`WITNESS EXAMINATION
`
`DAVID CRANE
`
`Volume II
`
` BY MR. SACKSTEDER 173
`
` BY MR. RINEHART 276
`
` BY MR. SACKSTEDER 276
`
` EXHIBITS
`
` RE: PGR2018-00029, PATENT 9,636,583
`
`NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGES
`
`Exhibit 1001 "United States Patent, Atobe, Patent 173
`
` No.: US 9,636,583 B2, Date of Patent:
`
` *May 2, 2017"; 20 pages
`
`Exhibit 2002 "Case: PGR2018-00029, U.S. Patent No. 176
`
` 9,636,583, DECLARATION OF DAVID
`
` CRANE"; 32 pages
`
`Exhibit 2003 Japanese patent 2007-252696; 84 pages 197
`
`//
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`Exhibit 1012
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`
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` EXHIBITS
`
` RE: PGR2018-00047, PATENT 9,770,659
`
`NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGES
`
`Exhibit 1001 "United States Patent, Atobe, Patent 203
`
` No.: US 9,770,659 B2, Date of Patent:
`
` Sep. 26, 2017"; 20 pages
`
`(Exhibits are not attached to the deposition transcript.)
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1012
`Page 5
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`
`
` Menlo Park, California; Thursday, February 28, 2019
`
` 10:03 a.m.
`
` MR. SACKSTEDER: Good morning.
`
` For the record, this is the continuation of a
`
`deposition in two Post Grant Reviews before the Patent
`
`Trial and Appeal Board. The first is PGR2018-00029, and
`
`the second is 2018-00047, and counsel and the witness
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`were courteous in letting me end a little bit early.
`
`Then we had to reschedule. So now we are resuming the
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`deposition today in those two PGRs.
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` And I am Michael Sacksteder of Fenwick & West.
`
`I represent the petitioner, Supercell OY, and with me is
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`Geoffrey Miller, also with Fenwick & West and also
`
`representing Supercell.
`
` Counsel, would you like to introduce yourself?
`
` MR. RINEHART: Sure. Thank you.
`
` My name is Andrew Rinehart, on behalf of my
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`client Gree, Inc., and I am of the firm Kilpatrick,
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`Townsend & Stockton.
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` And, Mr. Crane, would you like to introduce
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`yourself?
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` THE WITNESS: David Crane, C-r-a-n-e.
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: Usually this all gets handled
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`by the videographer at the beginning of the deposition.
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`So I thought I'd be the master of ceremonies.
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` MR. RINEHART: We take it for granted, right?
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` FURTHER CROSS-EXAMINATION
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q Good morning, Mr. Crane.
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` Are you feeling well today?
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` A I'm feeling fine. Thank you.
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` Q All right. Are you taking any medication that
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`might affect your ability to testify completely and
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`accurately?
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` A I am not.
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` Q Mr. Crane, I'm going to give you another copy
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`of Exhibit 1001 from the 00029 PGR.
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` (Exhibit 1001 was introduced.)
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q That is the '583 patent that we've been
`
`discussing previously, correct?
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` A It looks like a complete copy.
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` Q If you could turn to -- it's actually Page 15
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`of the exhibit, Column 1 of the '583 patent. And in the
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`first paragraph of the section that is headed "Summary,"
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`it says: "It could therefore be helpful to provide a
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`storage medium storing a game program and a game
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`processing method of a game that gives a user a high
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`visual effect, and an information processing apparatus
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`Page 173
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`Exhibit 1012
`Page 7
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`that controls the game."
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` Do you see that?
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` A I do.
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` Q What's your understanding of what a "high
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`visual effect" is in the context of the '583 patent?
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` A In the context of the '583 patent, there are
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`discussions about ways in which displaying the game play
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`and game sequencing is done with animations and colors
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`and similarity to a comic strip, so any of those
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`elements would be what I would assume they're talking
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`about when they mention a high visual effect.
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` Q Well, you're a person at least of ordinary
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`skill in the art, correct?
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` A At least, yes.
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` Q All right. Is -- what's your level of
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`confidence in that -- that conclusion that that's what
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`they're referring to?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: Well, those were examples from
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`the specification, so I'm reasonably certain that those
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`are included in what they refer to as a "high visual
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`effect."
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q All right. You gave me some examples.
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` Can you give me more of a definition rather
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`Page 8
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`than just listing examples? What is a high visual
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`effect, your understanding as a person of at least
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`ordinary skill in the art?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: As a person of ordinary skill in
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`the art, I would assume high visual effect is pretty
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`much what it's described using ordinary language. It's
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`a visual effect, and high would be better than average,
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`I guess.
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: Excuse me. Can we go off the
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`record for one second.
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` (Recess.)
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: Back on the record after a
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`brief delay.
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` Q Mr. Crane, just to recap, we were talking
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`about the term "high visual effect" in the
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`specification. It actually appears in both the '583 and
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`the '659 patent.
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` And can you refresh me on your understanding
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`of what the term "high visual effect" means there as
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`it's stated in those patents?
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` A Well, to begin with, as I said, I would
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`consider that term, based on its ordinary meaning, it's
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`a visual effect, and high would be better than average.
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`I mentioned that the specification includes a number of
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`visual effects, including color and animation and video
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`and aspects that I assume the inventor considered to be
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`part of the -- his high visual effect.
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` Q And that's your understanding as a person of
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`at least ordinary skill in the art, correct?
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` A That's correct.
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` Q All right. In your declaration, Exhibit 2002,
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`in the -- the -- what's the number? The 00029 PGR, you
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`-- when you're talking about sort of the attributes of
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`the '583 patents invention, you have a couple of
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`categories. One is inventive game play, and you kind of
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`walk through that, and then you -- you talk about visual
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`improvements, correct?
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` MR. RINEHART: Mike, I'll pause you. He
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`doesn't have that exhibit in front of him right now
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`because of the change in court reporters.
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: Now he does.
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` (Exhibit 2002 was introduced.)
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` MR. RINEHART: Thank you very much.
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` THE WITNESS: In my declaration in Section V,
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`I do discuss both inventive game play and visual
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`improvement.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q And the -- the inventive game play is kind of
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`how the game proceeds, how it's -- how the game is
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`Page 10
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`managed; is that what you had in mind?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: That's a generalization, but
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`generally accurate.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q And then the visual improvements is the way
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`the game looks when you're looking at the screen,
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`correct?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: The visual improvement section
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`includes ways in which the game looks.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q And the term "high visual effect," as it's
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`used in the specification in these two patents, is that
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`just the visual effects part of your -- or the visual
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`improvements part of your discussion or does that also
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`relate to the game play portion?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q If you don't understand the question, feel
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`free to let me know.
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` A It probably would be helpful if you were to
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`repeat it.
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` Q Yeah. It wasn't a very good question. So
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`we're talking, again, about the term "high visual
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`Page 11
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`effect."
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` When you see that in the specification, do you
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`understand that to refer to the visual improvements that
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`you discussed in your declaration?
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` A Well, I would have to say that the visual
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`effect of the game described in the preferred embodiment
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`does combine both aspects of game play and visual
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`effects.
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` Q Okay. So it's both how you play the game and
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`what the screen looks like in terms of colors and
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`animations and the things you've referenced; is that
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`correct?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: Those things all combine to
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`provide the visual effect of the game.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q How do the aspects of inventive game play that
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`you identify in your declaration contribute to the high
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`visual effect that is disclosed as the benefit of the
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`invention?
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` MR. RINEHART: Same objection.
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` THE WITNESS: Well, for example, the game
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`play, as we've discussed at length, involves placing
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`panels into a grid, which ends up creating a visual
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`display. Methods for animating and colorizing and
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`Exhibit 1012
`Page 12
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`highlighting those panels all contribute to the overall
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`visual effect of the game. So you end up with a visual
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`display that represents the game play in a certain way.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q Okay. But is the game play itself something
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`that creates the high visual effect?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: I believe that the game play
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`contributes to what the inventor was intending with the
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`high visual effect.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q Okay. What about the game play contributes to
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`the high visual effect of the invention in these two
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`patents?
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` MR. RINEHART: Same objection.
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` THE WITNESS: One example of that, as
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`described in the specification, is the way in which,
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`after panels are placed into the grid, they can
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`represent character images, character animations,
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`animations as a result of the battle that is represented
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`by the orientation of the panels that have been disposed
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`in the grid, the way in which the overall image somewhat
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`resembles a comic strip, which gives you graphical
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`display, graphical animations, which represent the
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`temporal relationship between the panels as the battle
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`Page 179
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`Supercell
`Exhibit 1012
`Page 13
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`progresses. There are a number of elements in the
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`specification that contribute to the visual effect of
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`this game.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q Looking at Claim 1 of the '583 patent, is the
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`-- the resemblance of the overall image to a comic strip
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`claimed anywhere in Claim 1?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q And if so, please point that out.
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` A I don't see any reference specifically in
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`Claim 1 to the resemblance to a comic strip.
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` Q Is there any -- anything recited in Claim 1
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`that requires a representation of the temporal
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`relationship between the panels as the battle
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`progresses?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: Could you repeat that question?
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q Is anything recited in Claim 1 that requires a
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`representation of the temporal relationship between the
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`panels as the battle progresses?
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` MR. RINEHART: Same objection.
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` THE WITNESS: Well, since your question
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`includes a requirement of a claim -- I'm not a lawyer --
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`I think that's a -- would be a legal opinion.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q You're a person of ordinary skill in the art,
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`correct, at least?
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` A I am.
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` Q And you are testifying -- and you've testified
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`significantly, both in your declaration and in your
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`deposition, about how a person of ordinary skill in the
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`art would understand the -- the patent, correct?
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` A I have.
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` Q As a person of at least ordinary skill in the
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`art, do you see anything in Claim 1 that says anything
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`about representing the temporal relationship between the
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`panels as the battle progresses?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: And the issue I'm trying to get
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`across is: How the claim terms are interpreted is a
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`legal question. It's one in which one of ordinary skill
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`in the art can make a shot in the dark, but, you know,
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`we are not lawyers and don't profess to determine what a
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`claim actually covers until it's been addressed by the
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`courts.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q Mr. Crane, I will stipulate that you are not a
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`lawyer.
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` Do you understand that the purpose of
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`construing claims in a patent is to -- to determine how
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`a person of ordinary skill in the art would understand
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`those claims?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: I'd have to say I haven't been
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`trained in exactly what the purpose of construing a term
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`in a patent litigation is done for.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q I'll represent to you that claim construction
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`is directed to determining the understanding of a person
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`of ordinary skill in the art of the meaning of claims.
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`I'm not asking you to give me the meaning of a claim.
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` I believe my question was: Is there anything
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`in Claim 1 that says anything about representing the
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`temporal relationship between the panels as the battle
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`progresses? Can you answer that question?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: To that question, I see no
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`language that specifically refers to the temporal
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`relationship as a battle progresses.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q You also mentioned character animations as
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`something that is an example of providing a high visual
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`effect, correct?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: I believe I did.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q Does anything in any claim of the '583 patent
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`say anything about animation?
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` A I don't see the term "animation" used in any
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`of the claims in the '583 patent.
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` Q So you listed -- when I asked you about ways
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`that the game play contributes to the high visual effect
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`of the invention disclosed and claimed in the '583
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`patent, you listed character animations, correct?
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` A I believe I did.
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` Q And that doesn't appear in any claim of the
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`'583 patent, correct?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: I do not see the term
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`"animation" used in any of the claims of the '583
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`patent.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q Do you otherwise understand any of the claims
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`of the '583 patent to refer in any way to animation?
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` MR. RINEHART: Same objection.
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` THE WITNESS: What do you mean by "refer...to
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`animation"?
`
`//
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q Is there anything that references animation at
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`all?
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` MR. RINEHART: Same objection.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q When you read the claims, do you see anything
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`that says, oh, that's the place where they're talking
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`about animation in these claims?
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` MR. RINEHART: Same objection.
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` THE WITNESS: I don't see any reference to
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`animation in the claims of the '583 patent.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q And you also said that one of the aspects of
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`the game play that's disclosed and claimed in the '583
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`patent is a resemblance to a comic strip, correct?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: I described that as one of the
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`aspects of the preferred embodiment described in the
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`specification.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q In the claims, do you see any -- anything that
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`could be referring to resembling a comic strip?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: Well, the similarity to a comic
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`strip that I was referring to is the way in which the
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`screen that we see in Figure 3 or Figure 4 is ultimately
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`displayed, and there are a lot of issues in the claims
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`that talk about disposing panels in a particular pattern
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`or based on particular shapes and sizes. So there are
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`certainly references in the claims regarding that
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`aspect.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q Okay. Where are the references in the claims
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`that require the panels to be laid out in that
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`particular way?
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` A Well, to begin with, in Claim 1 there is a
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`discussion of panels being laid out in the divisions.
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`Claim 4 discusses emphasizing those panels disposed in
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`the divisions. Claim 5 discusses executing, which is,
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`as described in the specification, a temporal event.
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`Claim 8 has the panels given according to progress.
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` So when I say that I see from the
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`specification that one of the visual effects is that the
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`ultimate visual display can resemble a comic strip, it
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`is the summation of all of the activities performed in
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`generating that display.
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` Q Okay. Claim 1 doesn't say anything about the
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`way that panels are disposed in divisions, correct? It
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`just says panels are disposed in divisions?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: Claim 1 says that panels are
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`disposed in divisions, as well as saying that they are
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`laid out in target divisions when they are allowed to be
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`disposed in a target division.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q But it doesn't say anything about how they're
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`to be arranged, correct?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: It says that they are disposed
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`when the panel is allowed to be disposed in a target
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`division, which is an element we have discussed at
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`length regarding the specification describing the
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`placement of them based on their size and shape.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q Does anything about that claim limitation you
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`just referenced require a panel to be displayed so that
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`it somewhat resembles a comic strip?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: The specification describes the
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`way in which panels are disposed into the grid on the
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`screen. It is my testimony that the way in which that
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`is done in the preferred embodiment has an interesting
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`aspect in that it can resemble that of a comic strip.
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` The claim language talks about the disposition
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`of these target into target divisions based on the
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`understanding of the specification. I believe the claim
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`is discussing that very issue.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q So in your view, if the panels are not
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`disposed in a way that resembles a comic strip, then you
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`aren't practicing that limitation of Claim 1; is that
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`your testimony?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: I did not say that.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q So it's not a requirement for the panels to be
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`arranged in that particular way, correct?
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` MR. RINEHART: Same objection.
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` THE WITNESS: I am not a lawyer, but I would
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`say that Claim 1 requires that panels be disposed in
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`their target division.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q But that does not require them to be arranged
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`in a way that resembles a comic strip, correct?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: Again, the preferred embodiment
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`shows disposing panels in a grid based on their size and
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`shape, which can resemble that of a comic strip.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q But does Claim 1 require that?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form. Excuse me.
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` THE WITNESS: Not being a lawyer, I can't say
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`exactly what Claim 1 requires, but I believe that if the
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`sequence described in Claim 1 is followed, the end
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`result might be considered to resemble that of a comic
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`strip.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q In all instances or just sometimes?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: Certainly the preferred
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`embodiment shows disposing panels in a way that's
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`consistent with the specification, and one could
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`determine that that resembles a comic strip.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q My question was not that, sir.
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` It was: In all instances or just sometimes?
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` MR. RINEHART: Same objection.
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` THE WITNESS: As I sit here today, I can't say
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`that every possible implementation of the process
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`described in the specification would or would not
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`resemble a comic strip.
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: Thank you, sir.
`
` Q You referenced Claim 4 of the '583 patent, and
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`you specifically said that it recites an emphasized
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`display function of emphasizing and displaying the
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`Page 22
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`panels disposed in the divisions executed by the
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`division execution function, correct?
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` A Yes.
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` Q Is that part of the game play or is that part
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`of the visual improvements that you referred to?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: Generally, I would describe the
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`division execution function as an aspect of game play
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`and the emphasizing of a display function as a visual
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`effect of that game play.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q All right. And the division execution
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`function is actually recited up in Claim 2, right?
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` A Yes.
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` Q And that says you execute the divisions in a
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`particular order, correct?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: It describes executing the
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`divisions in which the panels are disposed by the panel
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`layout function in a predetermined order.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q During day one of your deposition in these
`
`cases, you were testifying about the term "frame" as
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`it's used in the specification of the patents.
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` Do you recall that?
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` A I recall discussing the term "frame."
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` Q And you -- you said at one point: We often
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`use the term "frame" to talk about something else in
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`video games besides what's referenced in the '583 and
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`'659 patents.
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` What else were you referring to?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Many video games are tied to a
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`-- an update rate of a display, and -- for example, a
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`video game might update the display 60 times per second,
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`and that -- the term "frame" has been used in the past
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`to refer to the update rate of a video game with its
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`history -- history going back to television frames,
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`where a television frame was either 30 or 60 frames per
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`second.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q Would a person of skill in the art be familiar
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`with that usage?
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` A Probably.
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` Q How would they know that the use of "frame" in
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`these patents means something different?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: I believe that a person of
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`ordinary skill in the art reading the specification
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`would understand that the discussion of "frame" in this
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`case represents the frame around one of the disposed
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`panels in the display.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
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` Q You -- so your testimony was that they would
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`understand that distinction, and my question was: How
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`would they know?
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` MR. RINEHART: Same objection.
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` THE WITNESS: I don't recall specifically
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`where that is in the specification, but the general
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`understanding, after reading the specification, is that
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`there is no likelihood of confusing it with the frame
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`update rate that I just referred to.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q My question is: Why not?
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` MR. RINEHART: Same objection.
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` THE WITNESS: There are a number of references
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`in the specification of disposing panels into frames
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`such that the term "frame" would be understood to be a
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`division of the screen and not an update rate of a video
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`game. An example is in Column 5 starting around Line 10
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`down through 15, 16: "...panels to be disposed in
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`frames of the game display screen." Therefore, a frame
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`of the display screen would offer no confusion between
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`that and the update rate frame referred to earlier in my
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`testimony.
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: All right. Thank you.
`
` Q You testified during the first day of your
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`deposition that battle proceeds like a cartoon, and then
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`today you were talking about a comic strip.
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` You meant the same thing, correct?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: They are similar.
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q Are there any differences that you had in mind
`
`when you used the two different pieces of terminology in
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`the two different days of your deposition?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: I don't recall the context from
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`my earlier testimony about when I used the term
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`"cartoon."
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`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q It's actually from -- reading from your
`
`declaration where you actually said: A format like a
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`cartoon. You wrote: The battle between the first and
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`second characters proceeds in a format like a cartoon.
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`And today you referred to a comic strip.
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` And I'm just confirming that that -- you meant
`
`the same thing by those?
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` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: Where in my declaration are you
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`Exhibit 1012
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`reading from?
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` MR. SACKSTEDER: That's a harder question.
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`Let me look for it.
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` Q You're actually quoting from the
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`specification. It's in Paragraph 29 of your
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`declaration, and you quoted a portion that said:
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`"...the battle between the first and second characters
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`proceeds in a format like a cartoon. Therefore, since
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`the user can play the game with a sense of reading a
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`cartoon, the visual effect that the user receives is
`
`greatly improved compared to known games."
`
` So when that term is used in the
`
`specification, which you quoted in the declaration,
`
`that's synonymous, in your mind, with "comic strip"; is
`
`that correct?
`
` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: They are certainly very similar.
`
`And when I'm referring to a cartoon or a comic strip,
`
`I'm referring to much the same thing.
`
`BY MR. SACKSTEDER:
`
` Q And that's something that you think is
`
`embodied in the claims that makes them inventive; is
`
`that correct?
`
` MR. RINEHART: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS:
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