UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` -----------------------------------
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` -----------------------------------
` DISPERSIVE NETWORKS, INC.,
` Petitioner,
` v.
` NICIRA, INC.,
` Patent Owner.
` -----------------------------------
` Case No. PGR2018-00063
` U.S. Patent 9,722,815
` DEPOSITION OF NADER MIR, Ph.D.
` Palo Alto, California
` Friday, April 26, 2019
` 9:33 a.m.
`
`Job No.: 239136
`Pages: 1 - 214
`Reported By: Charlotte Lacey, RPR, CSR No. 14224
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 1 of 263
`
`
` -----------------------------------
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` -----------------------------------
` DISPERSIVE NETWORKS, INC.,
` Petitioner,
` v.
` NICIRA, INC.,
` Patent Owner.
` -----------------------------------
` Case No. PGR2018-00063
` U.S. Patent 9,722,815
` DEPOSITION OF NADER MIR, Ph.D.
` Palo Alto, California
` Friday, April 26, 2019
` 9:33 a.m.
`
`Job No.: 239136
`Pages: 1 - 214
`Reported By: Charlotte Lacey, RPR, CSR No. 14224
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 1 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`2
`
` DEPOSITION OF NADER MIR, Ph.D., held at the offices
`of DENTONS US LLP, 1530 Page Mill Road, Suite 200,
`Palo Alto, California
`
` Pursuant to notice, before Charlotte Lacey,
`Certified Shorthand Reporter, in and for the State of
`California.
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 2 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`3
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER DISPERSIVE NETWORKS, INC.:
` JEREMY C. DOERRE, ESQUIRE
` TILLMAN WRIGHT PLLC
` 11325 North Community House Road, Suite 250
` Charlotte, North Carolina 28277
` (877) 248-5100
`
`ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER NICIRA, INC.:
` SCOTT W. CUMMINGS, ESQUIRE
` DENTONS US LLP
` 1900 K Street, Northwest
` Washington, DC 20006
` (202) 496-7500
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
` Bridgette Rast
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 3 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`4
`
` I N D E X
`WITNESS PAGE
`NADER MIR, Ph.D.
`Examination by Mr. Doerre 5
`
` I N D E X O F E X H I B I T S
`EXHIBITS DESCRIPTION PAGE
` (None offered)
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 4 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`5
`
` P R O C E E D I N G S
` NADER MIR, Ph.D.,
`the witness herein, having been first duly sworn, was
`examined and testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. DOERRE:
` Q Good morning, everyone. My name is Jeremy
`Doerre, and I represent Dispersive Networks Inc., which
`is the petitioner in this matter. And I work for a law
`firm called Tillman Wright LLC.
` Dr. Mir, could you please state and spell your
`full for the record.
` A Sure. My name is Nader, N-a-d-e-r; last name
`is Mir, M-i-r.
` Q And what's your current address, for the
`record?
` A My residence address is 6492 Crystal Springs
`Drive, San Jose, California 95120.
` Q Excellent. And today I'm going to be asking
`you some questions, and we'll be talking about a
`proceeding before the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.
`It's a post-grant review proceeding in which you
`provided some testimony.
` If for some reason during this proceeding or
`during this deposition you don't understand any of my
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 5 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`6
`
`questions, feel free, please, just let me know. Ask me
`to clarify. I'll be happy to follow up if you need
`anything.
` If, when you're answering questions, try to
`wait till the end of when I'm talking, and I'll try to
`wait till the end of your talking just so that we don't
`have to talk over each other. It makes for a clear
`record.
` I assume this is not the first time that you
`have done -- would I be correct in assuming this is not
`the first time you have done a deposition?
` A Yes.
` Q So... Okay. Then I will assume you -- you
`are -- know all of that.
` I do have to ask, are you under the influence
`of any drugs or alcohol or any other substances that
`might impair or affect your testimony today?
` A No.
` Q Is there any other reason you're aware of that
`you wouldn't be able to testify truthfully, accurately,
`and completely here today?
` A No.
` Q And now I'm going to go ahead and introduce a
`number of exhibits that we're going to be talking about
`today, so I apologize for, you know, having to go
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 6 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`7
`
`through all of this.
` But let's start with your declaration. This
`is -- it's marked as Petitioner's 101.
` MR. CUMMINGS: We'll just use this copy.
` MR. DOERRE: I mean, you're welcome to use
`your copy if you have one. I mean, I'm going to pass it
`across to -- if you want to look at it and see if it
`corresponds with what you want. You're welcome to use
`your own copy of it. It's already in the record. It's
`marked as Petitioner's 101 just for the record.
` MR. CUMMINGS: It might be easier to use your
`copy.
` MR. DOERRE: If it's easier to use your copy.
` MR. CUMMINGS: I'll take this copy.
` MR. DOERRE: Sure. I actually have copies for
`everyone if everyone wants one.
` Q Okay. So that's your declaration. It seems
`like you have a binder in front of you. Do you have any
`notes in your binder or any notations or anything you've
`made on any of the pages in your binder?
` A No.
` Q Okay. Just for the sake of convenience, I'm
`going to go ahead and introduce a number of other
`documents just at the front just so we can get it out of
`the way.
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 7 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`8
`
` Next is a -- this is a copy of the petition
`for post-grant review in the present case. It's been
`marked as Petitioner's 102.
` Do you have a copy of that before you in your
`binder?
` Okay. Then I'll go ahead and pass that
`across.
` MR. DOERRE: Would you like one as well?
` MR. CUMMINGS: No. This is the petition --
`yes, Jeremy.
` THE WITNESS: So we don't have the petition in
`this binder?
` A Okay. Yeah. I don't have the petition in my
`binder.
` Q Okay.
` A So I just keep this copy.
` Q Yeah, yeah. Just keep that copy.
` A Okay.
` MR. DOERRE: Sorry. There's a copy, and I
`apologize for it not being stapled.
` Q Okay. So next we have a copy of the patent
`owner's response that was filed in this case. I have
`this marked as Petitioner's 104. I'm going to go ahead
`and pass it across. If you have a copy in your binder,
`you're welcome to refer to that. If not, there's a
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 8 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`9
`
`copy.
` THE WITNESS: We don't have it?
` MR. CUMMINGS: No.
` A Okay.
` MR. DOERRE: Sorry. I have one for you as
`well.
` Q And then next we have a copy of a patent
`owner's contingent motion to amend, which I've marked as
`Petitioner's 103. I'm not sure if you have that in your
`binder or not.
` MR. DOERRE: And here's a copy, Scott.
` MR. CUMMINGS: And, Jeremy, these documents
`you've handed me don't have exhibit numbers on them.
`Could you please tell me what the exhibit number is for
`the petition?
` MR. DOERRE: Oh, for the petition? It should
`have -- I believe it's on his. Sorry. Petitioner's --
`I apologize. Petitioner's 103. For the petition.
` MR. CUMMINGS: And what about the patent
`owner's response? What exhibit number do you have for
`that?
` MR. DOERRE: I believe that is 104. Let me
`make sure. Sorry.
` MR. CUMMINGS: And do you have those exhibit
`numbers?
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 9 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`10
`
` MR. DOERRE: Yes. Okay.
` MR. CUMMINGS: And patent owner's contingent
`motion to amend is exhibit number...
` MR. DOERRE: I believe that one is 103.
` Q And during the course of the testimony, I will
`generally refer to them as the patent owner's response,
`patent owner's contingent motion to amend to make it
`easier. If you want me to refer to the exhibit numbers,
`just let me know.
` Okay. Next is the -- a copy of U.S. patent
`number 9,722,815, which is the subject patent at issue
`in this proceeding. This is marked as Exhibit 1001,
`which corresponds to its exhibit number in this
`proceeding that's already been marked.
` MR. DOERRE: Here, I have a copy for you as
`well.
` Q I assume you have a copy in your binder.
` And then lastly for now -- and I apologize
`again for doing all this at the outset, but just so we
`don't have to interrupt or break in the middle -- I have
`a copy of U.S. patent number 9,071,607 to Twitchell,
`which has been marked as Exhibit 1003.
` A I have that.
` Q You have that. Which is the exhibit that is
`in the proceeding.
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 10 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`11
`
` Okay. So referring to petitioner's 101, which
`is the -- your declaration in support of patent owner's
`response and contingent motion to amend, this indicates
`on the cover that it's for case PGR 2018-00063,
`Dispersive Networks Inc. v. Nicira Inc. for Patent
`9,722,815.
` Is it your understanding that you're here
`today to give testimony in connection with this matter?
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. And so today we have -- we have a
`number of patents involved. The 9,722,815 patent, which
`is the subject patent, which is Exhibit 1001. For ease
`of reference today, I may sometimes refer to it as the
`'815 patent, and the Twitchell patent may sometimes be
`referred to as the '607 patent. If this is ever
`unclear, just let me know, and I'll be happy to clarify
`exactly what we're referring to.
` A Okay.
` Q Do you have any questions about any of the
`documents that I've provided or is that -- and if you do
`and it's ever unclear what document we're referring to,
`just let me know.
` A Okay. Sure.
` Q So this is -- I believe we went over this.
`This is not the first time you have given deposition
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 11 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`12
`
`testimony.
` Have you been an expert witness in -- or how
`many -- how many proceedings roughly as an estimate have
`you been an expert witness in?
` A I do not remember.
` Q Okay. So fair to say more than ten?
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. So now I'm going to start by referring
`to Exhibit 1001, which is the '815 patent which is the
`Mukundan patent. And I apologize. I'm probably not
`getting that last name right. So I'll mostly just refer
`to it as the '815 patent. But I'm going to start with
`the claims of the patent.
` And during the course of preparing your
`testimony, have you reviewed this whole patent and
`looked over it?
` A Yes.
` Q In reviewing it, did you also review the
`provisional patent application that it claims priority
`to?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form.
` Q In reviewing this patent, did you look at any
`of the priority documents it claims priority to?
` A Could you tell me the -- the exact document
`that you're referring to?
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 12 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`13
`
` Q Yes. So on the first page of this patent, it
`has a section in the left column entitled "Related U.S.
`Application Data." Could you read the patent
`application that identifies, the provisional application
`that it identifies that it claims priority to?
` A Are you referring to provisional application
`number 61/696770?
` Q No. I may not... I am... I apologize,
`'cause I was seeing it as 61/844822, at number 60,
`parenthetical 60.
` A Let me make it easier. So I have a list of
`documents I reviewed to --
` Q Yes.
` A -- to render my opinion. And that was listed
`on page 6 of my declaration.
` Q Okay.
` A And I want to just make sure that, you know,
`the document you're referring to is listed there.
` Q The document I'm referring to is -- so -- is
`not listed there. So is that a thorough and complete
`listing of the documents you reviewed in connection with
`your review?
` A It is.
` Q Okay. Okay. So referring back to the -- now
`to the '815 patent, let's flip through to -- at the --
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 13 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`14
`
`page 18 which just is at the end. It's the
`second-to-last page of the document. Starts with the
`claims. The -- it says on the right side halfway down,
`what is claimed as new and desired to be protected, and
`then it has claim 1. These are the claims that I'm
`assuming you reviewed and opined on. We're just going
`to kind of run through the claims as they go.
` In reviewing claim 1, did you find it to be
`clear and consistent with the disclosure of the '815
`patent?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form.
` Q Okay. In reviewing claim 1, the first step
`says "provided an edge device in a local network
`communicatively coupled with a cloud" --
` THE REPORTER: Can you slow down a little bit,
`please.
` MR. DOERRE: I apologize.
` Q In reviewing claim 1, can you read the first
`step of claim 1 or the -- the first step of the edge
`gateway multiplied path method of claim 1?
` A Yes, I can. Claim 1 starts with "An
`edge-gateway multipath method comprising providing an
`edge device in a local network communicatively coupled
`with a cloud-computing service in a cloud-computing
`network."
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 14 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`15
`
` Q And based on your familiarity and background,
`is there anything -- does this appear to be a
`conventional limitation that a ordinary artisan or
`someone in the art as of around 2012, before this
`patent, would have been aware of and understood this
`limitation?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form.
` Q With respect to the term "edge device," what
`do you understand that term to mean in this patent?
` A Sure. I can explain that.
` On my -- page 20 of my report, I have
`clarified what the edge device means, and for purposes
`of my analysis in this declaration, I have been asked to
`assume that the Patent Trial and Appeal Board's
`construction of edge device is accurate. So I used that
`construction. Specifically, the edge device is a device
`or a virtual machine that provides routing functionality
`and that provides an entry point into the network. And
`I used this one to give my opinion in my declaration.
` Q Thank you. So, based on your own
`understanding of -- kind of, setting aside for a moment
`the board's definition, which you've, kind of, taken for
`purposes of your declaration, in paragraph 45, it looks
`like you additionally walk through what you feel the
`term "edge device" is.
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 15 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`16
`
` Would you, kind of, describe your own
`understanding of what an ordinary artisan would have
`understood an edge device to mean -- would mean?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form, relevance.
` Q In paragraph 45 of your declaration, you
`indicate -- you continue to maintain that the term "edge
`device" has a different meaning than that the board
`believes. And is it your opinion that the term "edge
`device" only refers to or is intended to refer to
`routers, routing switches, integrated access devices,
`multiplexers, and a variety of metropolitan area network
`and wide area network access devices and similar
`hardware devices, and would not encompass a software
`router?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form.
` Q Do you believe that the term "edge device"
`could encompass a software router?
` A As I said a few minutes ago, the edge device
`has the construction based on the board, and I used
`that -- I was asked to use that, that construction for
`my analysis. So when I read "The edge device is a
`device or a virtual machine," so that would be a device
`or virtual machine that provides routing functionality
`and provides an entry point to the network, that would
`be sufficient to me to continue my analysis and to
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 16 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`17
`
`complete my analysis in my declaration.
` Q Thank you. And do you think that one of
`ordinary skill in the art would have understood this
`term to encompass a software router?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form, relevance.
` A I do not understand what you mean by that.
` Q Okay. In your expert declaration, can you
`read the -- paragraph 45.
` A Yes. "I continue to maintain that the term
`'edge device,' as would be understood by one of ordinary
`skill in the art, is term of art that does not encompass
`end user clients or devices, e.g., network clients, PCs,
`laptops, mobile phones, tablets, and et cetera, but,
`instead, includes devices such as routers, routing
`switches, integrated access devices, multiplexers, and a
`variety of metropolitan area network and wide area
`network access devices.
` "Accordingly, one of ordinary skill in the art
`would not construe edge device as a client device or an
`end user device. In fact, as would be understood by one
`of ordinary skill in the art, client devices or end user
`devices are distinct endpoints that gain access to
`networks via edge devices such as routers, routing
`switchers, integrated access devices, multiplexers, and
`a variety of metropolitan area network and wide area
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 17 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`18
`
`network access devices."
` Q Thank you. And so do you believe that one of
`ordinary skill in the art would understand a client
`device or an end user device to be an edge device if it
`had routing functionality?
` A I did not opine on that.
` Q You did not define which term?
` A I did not opine on that.
` Q Okay. And if you were to opine on that, what
`would your opinion be?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; relevance.
` Q Can you continue to answer the question?
` A So I need to take my time to -- to get all the
`references and information to see if that is the case.
` Q Okay. So a -- when you say at paragraph 45
`that you "continue to maintain that the term 'edge
`device,' as would be understood by one of ordinary skill
`in the art, is a term of art that does not encompass end
`user clients or devices, but, instead, includes devices
`such as routers, routing switches, integrated access
`devices, multiplexers, and a variety of metropolitan
`area networking, wide area network access devices," what
`is the primary basis for the distinction between those
`two categories?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form.
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 18 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`19
`
` Q Okay. Do you think that a end user client
`device or end user or client device could be modified to
`accomplish the same functionality as an edge device?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form.
` Q Do you believe that an ordinary -- okay.
` With respect to the Mukundan '815 patent, in
`reviewing this, did you come across this disclosure of
`gateways?
` A Yes.
` Q Do you believe that a gateway would be an edge
`device?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; relevance.
` Q Go ahead and answer the question.
` A The gateway is a term of '815 patents. And it
`has its own use as it's stated and recited in the
`'815 patent. And if you want me to go over the
`construction or the meaning of gateway as far as a
`person of ordinary skill in the art would understand, I
`can do that.
` Q Okay. So in your opinion, would the gateway
`of the '815 patent be understood as an edge device
`with -- as it's defined in the '815 patent?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form.
` MR. DOERRE: I'm sorry. Can you -- what's the
`basis for the objection?
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 19 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`20
`
` MR. CUMMINGS: "Would the gateway be
`understood as an edge device as it's defined," I don't
`know that it's defined in the '815 patent.
` MR. DOERRE: Oh, okay. Fair enough.
` Q So as one would understand the term "edge
`device" in view of the disclosure of the '815 patent,
`would an ordinary artisan understand the term -- the
`gateway -- sorry -- the gateway to be an edge device?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form.
` Q Would an ordinary artisan understand the
`gateway to be an edge device?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; relevance.
` Q Go ahead and answer the question.
` A Sure. In '815 patent, distinctly edge device
`and gateways are recited. And one of the examples
`quickly we can think of is claim 1, for example, stating
`that "An edge-gateway multipath method comprising." So
`this very quick reminder -- this would be a quick
`reminder to me that, you know, edge and gateway are two
`distinct devices, and a multipath connection is
`established between the two.
` There is no mention of -- as far as I can see,
`there is no mention of any words there or statements in
`the '815 patent that implies a gateway can be same as
`edge, and I have not come across any -- any statement
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 20 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`21
`
`like that in the '815 patent. And whether a gateway can
`be a -- an edge, that would take me time to analyze the
`patents to see if all of the characteristics of the edge
`can be found in the gateway or vice-versa.
` So the answer to your question is that I do
`not know.
` Q Okay. And what would the characteristics be
`of an edge device?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form.
` Q What would an ordinary -- what characteristics
`of an edge device would an ordinary artisan understand
`characterize such a device?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form.
` Q Would an ordinary artisan understand an edge
`device as disclosed in the '815 patent to provide
`routing functionality?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form, relevance.
` Q Go ahead and answer the question.
` A The edge device -- the construction of edge
`device, as I said earlier, is a device or a virtual
`machine that provides routing functionality and that
`provides an entry point into a network. I was asked to
`use this construction. And I agreed, and, based on
`that, I provided my opinion.
` Q Does an edge device have to provide routing
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 21 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`22
`
`functionality in order to be an edge device?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form, relevance.
` Q In view of -- as the term "edge device" is
`used in the '815 patent, do you believe that the term
`refers to a device that necessarily provides routing
`functionality?
` A Yes.
` Q Are you familiar with the term "virtual
`customer premises equipment"?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; relevance.
` Q You can answer the question.
` A I don't remember.
` Q Okay. Do you believe that a virtual router,
`which would be software providing routing functionality,
`could ever qualify as an edge device?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form, relevance.
` A Could you tell me what a virtual router is?
` Q Great question. So if you have a device that
`is running software that provides routing functionality,
`do you believe that device could ever qualify as an edge
`device?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; relevance.
` Q Go ahead answer the question.
` A Could you point to my report where I have
`provided any opinion on the virtual router versus edge
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 22 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`23
`
`device?
` Q Okay. So the term "edge device," which
`includes devices such as routers, routing switches,
`integrated access devices, multiplexers, and a variety
`of metropolitan area network and wide area network
`access devices, is there a characteristic common to
`these that ties them together as edge devices?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form, relevance.
` A I'm sorry. You did not answer my request
`that -- you know, you did not refer to my request.
` Could you point to anyplace in my report that
`I mentioned anything about the virtual router?
` Q You're -- I apologize. Let's go to page 20 of
`the report. It says that "The edge device is a device
`or virtual machine that provides routing functionality
`and that provides an entry point into a network." So
`that could include a software that provides routing
`functionality.
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form.
` Q I apologize. So when you say that edge
`device, as you're -- for purposes of your opinion, "is a
`device or virtual machine that provides routing
`functionality and that provides an entry point into a
`network," would the term "edge device" encompass a
`device that has software on it where that software
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 23 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`24
`
`provides routing functionality and that device provides
`an entry point into a network?
` MR. CUMMINGS: Objection; form.
` A So, Counsel, I have not provided any opinion
`on that in my report. So I would not be able to make
`any comments on that. If it is needed for this
`proceeding, I need time and my references to -- to work
`on and then to come up with the answer. I don't think
`there is any mention of this in my report, so -- so I
`haven't worked on that.
` Q Thank you. And thank you for your patience as
`I --
` A Sure.
` Q -- investigate that issue.
` So let's move on and talk about, kind of,
`some other -- other terms in the claim.
` The first one is a general question. So
`the -- I'm back to claim 1 of the '815 patent, which is
`Exhibit 1001.
` A Uh-huh.
` Q So it uses the term "MP" throughout the claim.
`For example, in the step of communicatively coupling the
`edge device with a gateway in the cloud-computing
`network, it refers to a multipath and then,
`parenthetical, MP, parenthetical, protocol.
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 24 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of Nader Mir, Ph.D.
`Conducted on April 26, 2019
`
`25
`
` Is it your understanding in reviewing this
`claim that -- that MP, as it's later used in the
`abbreviation, is always referring back to multipath?
` A Within the context of the '815 patent, the
`answer is yes.
` Q Okay. Thank you.
` So now going through the steps of the patent,
`let's move down to that step of "communicatively
`coupling the edge device with the gateway in the
`cloud-computing network wherein the communicatively
`coupling of the edge device with the gateway comprises a
`multipath protocol and wherein the MP protocol is
`implemented by combining a set of multiple network paths
`into a composite connection that transmits a set of data
`packets from a single user packet flow across all" -- it
`says "oaths." I'm understanding it as paths. Is that
`your understanding as well?
` A I think that's a typo.
` Q That -- that was my assumption as well.
` A Should be path.
` Q Yeah. So it's all "path" simultaneously.
` So subsequently in the step of -- several
`steps down, it says, "Determining an optimal multipath
`network flow setting that ensures a quality of service,
`(QoS) -- or QoS -- parameter of the multipath network
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. Ex. 1020
`
`Dispersive Networks, Inc. v. Nicira, Inc.
`PGR2018-00063
`Page 25 of 263
`
`
`
`Transcript of
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
