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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` _____________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` _____________________
`
` DEVELOPMENTAL TECHNOLOGIES, LLC
` Petitioner,
` _____________________
`
` DUPONT SAFETY & CONSTRUCTION, INC,
` Patent Owner.
` _____________________
`
` Case PGR2018-00102
` Patent No. 9,848,543
`* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
` TELEPHONIC HEARING BEFORE:
` CHIEF JUDGE CARL M. DeFRANCO,
` JUDGE SCOTT A. DANIELS, and
` JUDGE RYAN H. FLAX
`DATE TAKEN: AUGUST 28, 2019
`TIME: 11:00 a.m. - 11:11
`PLACE: UNITED STATES PATENT AND
` TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`TAKEN BEFORE: HEATHER McEVILLY, COURT REPORTER
` AND NOTARY PUBLIC
`* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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`Page 2
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`APPEARANCES:
`
`STEVEN R. OLSEN, ESQUIRE
`
`Law Office of Steven R. Olsen, PLLC
`
`P.O. Box 2092
`
`Inverness, Florida 34451
`
`solsen@sropatent.com
`
`APPEARING ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER
`
`STEPHEN J. GOMBITA, ESQUIRE
`
`DuPont In-House Counsel
`
`974 Centre Road
`
`Chestnut Run Plaza 721
`
`Wilmington, Delaware 19805
`
`stephen.j.gombita@dupont.com
`
`APPEARING ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
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` THE COURT: Hello, all. This is Judge
`
` DeFranco. We're here for a conference call on
`
` Case Number: PGR2018-00102, Developmental
`
` Technologies versus DuPont Safety and
`
` Construction. With me on the line is Judge
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` Daniels and Judge Flax.
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` Do you have a court reporter on the line?
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` THE COURT REPORTER: Yes, Your Honor.
`
` THE COURT: Okay. Let's start with the roll
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` call. For petitioner who do we have?
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` MR. OLSEN: We have Steve Olsen for the
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` petitioner. I don't believe Mr. Balderston will
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` be here today.
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` THE COURT: Okay. Welcome, Mr. Olsen.
`
` And who do we have for patent owner?
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` MR. GOMBITA: Good morning, Your Honor. This
`
` is Stephen Gombita for the patent owner.
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` THE COURT: Okay. Welcome, Mr. Gombita.
`
` And who retained the court reporter?
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` MR. OLSEN: Petitioner did.
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` THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Olsen, if you could
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` make sure a copy of the transcript gets filed at
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` your earliest convenience, I would appreciate
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` that. Thank you.
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` MR. OLSEN: Yes, Your Honor.
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` THE COURT: Okay. The purpose of this call is
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` twofold, and I believe both purposes stem for the
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` fact that patent owner elected not to file a
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` patent owner response to the petition. And I
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` believe we received an email from patent owner
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` informing of its nonelection as far as the patent
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` owner response goes. So it complied with the
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` scheduling order to that effect. And also, that
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` email also informed us of the plans to request
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` adverse judgment in this case.
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` Mr. Gombita, we ask is DuPont planning on
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` filing a disclaimer of all of the claims in the
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` 543 patent?
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` MR. GOMBITA: We were not planning on it
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` unless we are required to, Your Honor.
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` THE COURT: What do you mean, you're
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` requesting adverse judgement, right? Are you
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` planning on canceling all of the clients that are
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` challenged here?
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` MR. GOMBITA: Yes, we are.
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` THE COURT: Okay. Adverse judgment to cancel
`
` all of the claims, claims 1 through 18, correct?
`
` MR. GOMBITA: That's correct.
`
` THE COURT: Okay. Thank you for clearing that
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`Page 5
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` that up, Mr. Gombita.
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` Mr. Olsen, so I understand -- this leads us to
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` the second part of this call.
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` I understand petitioner is seeking leave to
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` file a motion for construction of a request for
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` adverse judgment.
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` Does that mean you want to be involved in
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` drafting the request for adverse judgment?
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` MR. OLSEN: No, Your Honor. Our request was
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` sort of contingent. We're concerned because the
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` patent owner's email correspondence did not seem
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` to be a formal communication as required under
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` Rule 426, nor did it seem to be part of a public
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` record as part of the rules.
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` So if the patent owner was, you know, not
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` formalizing their request, um, we were certainly
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` prepared to move for the Court to find abandonment
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` and to construe that abandonment as a request for
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` adverse judgment, if it was necessary.
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` THE COURT: Mr. Olsen, I think if you looked
`
` at the scheduling order. It's typical in the
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` scheduling order -- I presume it's on this case as
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` well. Patent owners require only to arrange
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` conference call with the Board if it seeks to
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` elect. If it elects not to file a patent owner
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`Page 6
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` response -- and that's what the purpose of the
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` patent owner's email was. It gives notice that it
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` was not filing a patent owner response and then it
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` was asking for a conference call.
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` We never got back to the patent owner as far
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` as the conference call went, but they also advised
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` us they would file a request for adverse judgment.
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` And, again, you know, we did not respond to
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` patent owner's email. So when you sent in your
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` email then we arranged for this conference call.
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` Is that my -- am I correct, Mr. Gombita, that
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` that was the purpose of your email?
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` MR. GOMBITA: That's correct, Your Honor.
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` THE COURT: The scheduling order.
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` MR. GOMBITA: That's correct, Your Honor.
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` MR. OLSEN: Your Honor, if I may?
`
` THE COURT: Yes.
`
` MR. OLSEN: This is Mr. Olsen. I just want to
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` clarify.
`
` We had contacted patent owner in advance and
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` asked whether or not they intended to file a paper
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` to formalize their request for adverse judgment.
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` The patent owner declined to do that, which is
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` what necessitated our request for a conference.
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` THE COURT: Okay. Well, at this point --
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` MR. GOMBITA: Your Honor.
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` THE COURT: Is this Mr. Gombita?
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` MR. GOMBITA: It is, Your Honor.
`
` If I may just respond to that. This is not a
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` second time or a second call where I have been
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` misrepresented on what we said. I'm looking at
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` the specific email and opposing counsel contacted
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` us by email about setting up a call and we just --
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` we had said -- I had said that we had sent an
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` email pursuant to the scheduling order here
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` regarding a conference call was necessary and we
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` didn't think at this point in time we needed to
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` respond yet, so let's wait and see if the board
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` response to our email.
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` THE COURT: Okay. Well, I understand maybe
`
` there was some confusion amongst both of the
`
` parties. I don't think we need to get into whose
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` fault it is.
`
` It's clear right now that DuPont does plan on
`
` filing a request for adverse judgment, which will
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` cancel all claims 1 through 18.
`
` When did you plan on filing that -- well, what
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` is a good time for you to file that, Mr. Gombita?
`
` MR. GOMBITA: Um, so next week I'm on
`
` vacation. So if it can be the week of September
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` 9th, if that's okay, we would be able to do it
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` then.
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` THE COURT: That's perfect because I will be
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` on vacation as well, so I won't be able to get to
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` it until probably mid September, so not to worry.
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` Are you okay with that, Mr. Olsen?
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` MR. OLSEN: Yes, that's fine with the
`
` petitioner, thank you.
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` THE COURT: Okay. So is there anything else
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` that we need to discuss here? It seems like this
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` case is going to go away.
`
` Mr. Olsen?
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` MR. GOMBITA: This is Stephen Gombita, Your
`
` Honor. I don't believe that there is anything
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` else we need to discuss.
`
` THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Gombita.
`
` Mr. Olsen?
`
` MR. OLSEN: Your Honor, I wasn't completely
`
` clear about our outstanding motion to amend our
`
` mandatory notices. It seems to me though that if
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` patent owner is disclaiming all of its pending
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` claims in this matter then there is no risk that,
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` you know, might raise later estoppel
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` considerations. And so, in that case I suppose
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` our motion would be moot.
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` THE COURT: Right. I think that Mr. Gombita
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` made clear that he was planning on cancelling all
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` the claims. What effect that has as opposed to a
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` disclaimer, we don't need to get into at this
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` point.
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` But, yeah, as far as your motion to amend the
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` mandatory notice, um, are you speaking to the fact
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` that there was a name change on the patent owner's
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` part?
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` MR. OLSEN: No, I was talking about
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` petitioner's motion, Your Honor.
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` THE COURT: Oh, okay. What did that do?
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` MR. OLSEN: We proposed to add an additional
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` real party in the interest.
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` THE COURT: Oh, okay. If you don't think it
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` matters now then likely we'll not act on it. But
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` if you would like us to act on it, I can take a
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` look at it when I look at the request for adverse
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` judgment.
`
` MR. OLSEN: I believe if the patent owner
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` disclaims all of its claims then our request would
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` be moot because there would be no patent left. I
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` think the only issue would be if somehow a
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` judgment was entered that, you know, allowed the
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` patent owner to appeal to somehow retain its
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`Page 10
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` patent rights and then there was a question later
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` about another party attacking the same patent. So
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` that was the issue, but if patent owner is
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` disclaiming all claims then I believe our motion
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` would be moot.
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` THE COURT: Well, patent owner is going to
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` cancel claims 1 through 18. And I think the way
`
` the rules are written the patent owner is
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` precluded from taking any action from that adverse
`
` judgment once it's entered. So that's all I can
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` tell you at this point.
`
` All right. So, yes, I believe your motion
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` would be moot, but I will take closer look at it
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` when I take a look at that request for adverse
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` judgment.
`
` Anything else, Mr. Olsen?
`
` MR. OLSEN: Nothing else for me.
`
` THE COURT: You're all set, Mr. Gombita?
`
` MR. GOMBITA: I am.
`
` Thank you, Your Honor, for your time today.
`
` THE COURT: Thank you to both parties for
`
` participating in the call and we are adjourned.
`
` MR. GOMBITA: Thank you.
`
` MR. OLSEN: Thank you.
`
` (The proceedings were concluded.)
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` C E R T I F I C A T E
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`Page 11
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`The State Of Florida
`
`County Of Palm Beach
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` I, HEATHER M. McEVILLY, Court Reporter, State
`
`of Florida at large, certify that I was authorized to
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`and did stenographically report the foregoing
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`proceedings and that the transcript is a true and
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`complete record of my stenographic notes.
`
` Dated this 28th day of August 2019.
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` <%15113,Signature%>
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`17
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` ___________________________________
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` Heather M. McEvilly, Court Reporter
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`[& - esquire]
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`&
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`& 1:7
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`1
`1 4:23 7:21 10:7
`11:00 1:16
`15113 11:16
`18 4:23 7:21 10:7
`19805 2:8
`2
`2019 1:15 11:12
`2092 2:3
`28 1:15
`28th 11:12
`3
`34451 2:3
`4
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`426 5:13
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`543 4:14
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`5
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`7
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`721 2:8
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`9
`9,848,543 1:10
`974 2:7
`9th 8:1
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`a
`a.m. 1:16
`abandonment 5:17
`5:18
`able 8:1,4
`act 9:16,17
`action 10:9
`add 9:13
`additional 9:13
`adjourned 10:22
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`adverse 4:11,18,22
`5:6,8,19 6:7,22
`7:20 9:18 10:9,14
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`asked 6:21
`asking 6:4
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`august 1:15 11:12
`authorized 11:7
`b
`back 6:5
`balderston 3:13
`beach 11:4
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`believe 3:13 4:3,6
`8:14 9:20 10:4,12
`board 1:3 5:24 7:13
`box 2:3
`
`c
`c 3:1 11:1,1
`call 3:3,11 4:2 5:3
`5:24 6:4,6,10 7:5,8
`7:11 10:22
`cancel 4:22 7:21
`10:7
`canceling 4:19
`cancelling 9:2
`carl 1:13
`case 1:9 3:4 4:11
`5:22 8:11,24
`centre 2:7
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`certainly 5:16
`certify 11:7
`challenged 4:20
`change 9:8
`chestnut 2:8
`chief 1:13
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`7:21 8:22 9:3,21
`10:4,7
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`clear 7:19 8:19 9:2
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`communication
`5:12
`complete 11:10
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`5:24 6:4,6,10,24
`7:11
`confusion 7:16
`considerations
`8:24
`construction 1:7
`3:6 5:5
`construe 5:18
`contacted 6:20 7:7
`contingent 5:10
`convenience 3:24
`copy 3:23
`correct 4:23,24
`6:11,13,15
`correspondence
`5:11
`counsel 2:7 7:7
`county 11:4
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`Page 12
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`court 1:18 3:2,8,9
`3:10,15,19,20,22
`4:2,17,22,25 5:17
`5:20 6:14,17,25 7:2
`7:15 8:3,9,16 9:1
`9:12,15 10:6,18,21
`11:6,17
`
`d
`
`d 3:1
`daniels 1:13 3:7
`date 1:15
`dated 11:12
`day 11:12
`declined 6:23
`defranco 1:13 3:3
`delaware 2:8
`developmental 1:5
`3:4
`disclaimer 4:13 9:4
`disclaiming 8:21
`10:4
`disclaims 9:21
`discuss 8:10,15
`drafting 5:8
`dupont 1:7 2:7 3:5
`4:12 7:19
`dupont.com 2:9
`e
`e 3:1,1 11:1,1
`earliest 3:24
`effect 4:9 9:3
`elect 5:25
`elected 4:4
`elects 5:25
`email 4:6,10 5:11
`6:2,9,10,12 7:7,8
`7:10,14
`entered 9:24 10:10
`esquire 2:2,6
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`[estoppel - pgr2018-00102]
`
`estoppel 8:23
`f
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`f 11:1
`fact 4:4 9:7
`far 4:7 6:5 9:6
`fault 7:18
`file 4:4 5:5,25 6:7
`6:21 7:23
`filed 3:23
`filing 4:13 6:3 7:20
`7:22
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`fine 8:7
`flax 1:14 3:7
`florida 2:3 11:3,7
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`formalize 6:22
`formalizing 5:16
`g
`
`g 3:1
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`go 8:11
`goes 4:8
`going 8:11 10:6
`gombita 2:6 3:17
`3:18,19 4:12,15,21
`4:24 5:1 6:11,13,15
`7:1,2,3,23,24 8:13
`8:13,16 9:1 10:18
`10:19,23
`good 3:17 7:23
`h
`
`h 1:14
`hearing 1:12
`heather 1:18 11:6
`11:17
`hello 3:2
`honor 3:9,17 4:1,16
`5:9 6:13,15,16 7:1
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`800-726-7007
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`7:3 8:14,18 9:11
`10:20
`house 2:7
`i
`informed 4:10
`informing 4:7
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`7:20 9:19,24 10:10
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`5:9,20 6:16,18,18
`8:6,7,12,17,18 9:10
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`once 10:10
`opposed 9:3
`opposing 7:7
`order 4:9 5:21,22
`6:14 7:10
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`3:16,18 4:4,5,6,8
`5:15,25 6:3,5,20,23
`8:21 9:20,25 10:3,6
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`9:8
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`1:17 2:10 3:16,18
`4:4,5,6,7,14 5:11
`5:15,23,25 6:2,3,5
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`9:20,22,25 10:1,2,3
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`3:11,13,21 5:4 8:8
`petitioner's 9:11
`pgr2018-00102 1:9
`3:4
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`vacation 7:25 8:4
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`11:9
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`question 10:1
`r
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`10:12
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`stenographically
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`sure 3:23
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`u
`um 5:16 7:24 9:7
`understand 5:2,4
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