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`·2· · · · · · IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`· · · · · · · · · FOR THE DISTRICT OF DELAWARE
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`·4· ·CIRBA, INC., (D/B/A DENSIFY)
`· · ·AND CIRBA IP, INC.,
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`· · · · · · · · · · · Plaintiffs,· · CASE NO.
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`· · · · · · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · ·C.A. 19-742-LPS
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`· · ·VMWARE, INC.,
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`· · · · · · · · · · · Defendant.
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`14· · · VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF VIJAY MADISETTI, PH.D.
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`15· · · · · · · · · · · ATLANTA, GEORGIA
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`16· · · · · · · · · WEDNESDAY, JUNE 15, 2022
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`18· · · · · · · · · · (Reported Remotely)
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`22
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`23· ·REPORTED BY:· TANYA L. VERHOVEN-PAGE,
`· · · · · · · · · ·CCR-B-1790
`24
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`25· ·JOB NO.· 212866
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`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 1
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`·2· · · · · · IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`· · · · · · · · · FOR THE DISTRICT OF DELAWARE
`·3
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`·4· ·CIRBA, INC., (D/B/A DENSIFY)
`· · ·AND CIRBA IP, INC.,
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`· · · · · · · · · · · Plaintiffs,· · CASE NO.
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`· · · · · · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · ·C.A. 19-742-LPS
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`· · ·VMWARE, INC.,
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`· · · · · · · · · · · Defendant.
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`14· · · VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF VIJAY MADISETTI, PH.D.
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`15· · · · · · · · · · · ATLANTA, GEORGIA
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`16· · · · · · · · · WEDNESDAY, JUNE 15, 2022
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`17
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`18· · · · · · · · · · (Reported Remotely)
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`23· ·REPORTED BY:· TANYA L. VERHOVEN-PAGE,
`· · · · · · · · · ·CCR-B-1790
`24
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`25· ·JOB NO.· 212866
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`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 1
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
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`·1
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`·2· · · · · · · · ·June 15, 2022
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`·3· · · · · · · · · ·9:00 a.m.
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`·4
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`·5· · · · · ·Videotaped deposition of
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`·6· ·VIJAY MADISETTI, PH.D., held in Atlanta,
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`·7· ·Georgia before Tanya L. Verhoven-Page,
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`·8· ·Certified Court Reporter and Notary Public
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`·9· ·of the State of Georgia.
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`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 2
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`·1
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`·2· · · · · · · · ·APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
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`·3
`· · ·On behalf of the Petitioner:
`·4
`· · · · · ·Morrison & Foerster
`·5· · · · ·425 Market Street
`· · · · · ·San Francisco, CA 94105
`·6· · · · ·BY:· Diek Van Nort, Esq.
`· · · · · · · · (Via Zoom)
`·7
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`·8
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`·9
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`10· ·On behalf of the Patent Owner:
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`11· · · · ·Reichman Jorgensen Lehman & Feldberg
`· · · · · ·1710 Rhode Island Avenue
`12· · · · ·Washington, DC 20036
`· · · · · ·BY:· Philip Eklem, Esq.
`13· · · · · · · (Via Zoom)
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`14
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`16
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`17· ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Adrienne Chemel
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`19· · · · · · · · · · · · -· · -· · -
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`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 3
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`·1
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`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X
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`·3
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`·4· · · · · · · · WITNESS: VIJAY MADISETTI, PH.D.
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`·5
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`·6· · ·Examination· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Page
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`·7· ·BY MR. VAN NORT· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 7
`· · ·BY MR. EKLEM· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·86
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`·9
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`10· · · · · · · · · · · · ·EXHIBITS:
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`11· · · · · · · · · · · (None offered.)
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`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 4
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
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`·1· · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`·2· ·ATLANTA, GEORGIA; WEDNESDAY, JUNE 15, 2022
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`Page 5
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`·3· · · · · · · · · ·9:00 A.M.
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`·4
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`·5· · · · · · ·P R O C E E D I N G S
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`·6
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`·7· · · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Good morning,
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`·8· ·Counselors.· My name is Adrienne Chemel.
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`·9· ·I am a legal videographer in association
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`10· ·with TSG Reporting, Inc.
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`11· · · · ·I will not be in the same room with
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`12· ·the witness.· Instead, I will record this
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`13· ·videotaped deposition remotely.· The
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`14· ·reporter, Tanya Page, also will not be in
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`15· ·the same room and will swear the witness
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`16· ·remotely.
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`17· · · · ·Do all parties stipulate to the
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`18· ·validity of this video recording and
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`19· ·remote swearing and that it will be
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`20· ·admissible in the courtroom as if it had
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`21· ·been taken following Rule 30 of the
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`22· ·Federal Rules of Civil Procedures and the
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`23· ·state's rules where this case is pending?
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`24· · · · ·MR. VAN NORT:· Yes, for petitioner.
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`25· · · · ·MR. EKLEM:· Patent Owner agrees, as
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`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 5
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`Page 6
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`·1· · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`·2· ·well.
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`·3· · · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Thank you.· This
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`·4· ·is the start of taped labeled number one
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`·5· ·of the video-taped deposition of
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`·6· ·Dr. Vijay Madisetti, Ph.D., in the matter
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`·7· ·Cirba, Inc. et al., v VMware, Inc., in
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`·8· ·the United States District Court for the
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`·9· ·District of Delaware, No. 19-742-LPS.
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`10· · · · ·All parties have agreed to appear
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`11· ·remotely on June 15th, 2022 at
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`12· ·approximately 9:02 a.m.
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`13· · · · ·Will counsel please introduce
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`14· ·yourselves.
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`15· · · · ·MR. VAN NORT:· Diek Van Nort from
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`16· ·Morrison & Foerster for VMware,
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`17· ·Petitioner VMware.· And with also me from
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`18· ·Morrison & Foerster is Stephen Liu.
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`19· · · · ·MR. EKLEM:· Phil Eklem with
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`20· ·Reichman Jorgensen Lehman & Feldberg, on
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`21· ·behalf of Patent Owner and the witness,
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`22· ·Dr. Madisetti.
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`23· · · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Will the court
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`24· ·reporter please swear in the witness.
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`25
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`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 6
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`·2· · · Thereupon --
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`·3· · · · · · · · · VIJAY MADISETTI, PH.D.,
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`·4· · · called as a witness, having been first duly sworn,
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`·5· · · was examined and testified as follows:
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`Page 7
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`·6
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`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
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`·8· ·BY MR. VAN NORT:
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`·9· · · · ·Q· · ·Good morning, Dr. Madisetti.
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`10· · · · ·A· · ·Good morning, sir.
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`11· · · · ·Q· · ·So you should have -- I think off the
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`12· ·record we were discussing, I think you have seven
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`13· ·files from the PGR in the ShareFile directory; is
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`14· ·that correct?
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`15· · · · ·A· · ·Yes.
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`16· · · · ·Q· · ·And these are, I believe, the files that
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`17· ·I'll be referring to today during the deposition.
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`18· ·These are all already in the record so I'm not going
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`19· ·to remark these exhibits for the deposition -- or
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`20· ·excuse me.· These are already entered in the record
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`21· ·for the PGR.· So I'm not planning on remarking these
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`22· ·as exhibits.
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`23· · · · · · · ·Just to make sure that we have the same
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`24· ·set of papers, though, it is Paper 2, the Petition
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`25· ·for Post Grant Review of U.S. Patent Number
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`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 7
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`Page 8
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`·2· ·10,951,459; Paper 12, Institution Decision Granted;
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`·3· ·Paper 14, Patent Owner's Response; Exhibit 1, which
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`·4· ·is U.S. Patent Number 10,951459; Exhibit 1009, which
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`·5· ·is part of the file history for the -- the
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`·6· ·application that led to the '459 patent; Exhibit 2001
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`·7· ·is your declaration you submitted in this matter; and
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`·8· ·Exhibit 2002 is a list of materials considered in
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`·9· ·this matter.
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`10· · · · · · · ·Is that consistent with what you're
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`11· ·seeing?
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`12· · · · ·A· · ·Yes.
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`13· · · · ·Q· · ·Great.· And are you using any paper
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`14· ·copies of documents this morning?
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`15· · · · ·A· · ·No.
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`16· · · · ·Q· · ·So why don't you go ahead and open
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`17· ·Exhibit 2001 to the PGR.
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`18· · · · ·A· · ·Okay.· I've opened Exhibit 2001.
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`19· · · · ·Q· · ·And I'd like you to go to Paragraph 77.
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`20· · · · ·A· · ·Yes.
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`21· · · · ·Q· · ·And go ahead and read that paragraph to
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`22· ·yourself and let me know when you're done.
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`23· · · · ·A· · ·Yes, I've read the Paragraph 77.
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`24· · · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· So I'd like to ask you a question
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`25· ·about the last part of that paragraph where, on page
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`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 8
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`·2· ·44, I think it's the last couple of sentences,
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`·3· ·regarding transfer sets.
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`·4· · · · · · · ·Do you see those last couple of
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`Page 9
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`·5· ·sentences.
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`·6· · · · ·A· · ·Yes.
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`·7· · · · ·Q· · ·Can you explain to me what a transfer set
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`·8· ·is?
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`·9· · · · ·A· · ·As I describe here, as used in the '459
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`10· ·patent, a transfer set is one or more transfers that
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`11· ·involve a common target, where in the set it
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`12· ·specifies one or more source entities, the target and
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`13· ·the transfer type.· And I refer to Column 642 to 45
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`14· ·for this description.
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`15· · · · ·Q· · ·The reference to source entities, do you
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`16· ·see that?
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`17· · · · ·A· · ·Yes.
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`18· · · · ·Q· · ·Is a source system an example of a source
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`19· ·entity?
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`20· · · · ·A· · ·A source entity could be an example. A
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`21· ·nonlimiting example of a source entity could be a
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`22· ·source system.· It could also be something like an
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`23· ·application.· So all these are nonlimiting examples.
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`24· · · · ·Q· · ·So let's talk about the specific example
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`25· ·you have listed here.· In the following sentence you
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`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 9
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`·2· ·have an example of a transfer set T1.
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`·3· · · · · · · ·Do you see that?
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`·4· · · · ·A· · ·Yes.
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`Page 10
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`·5· · · · ·Q· · ·And the transfer set is comprised of
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`·6· ·source systems S1, S2 and S3, correct?
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`·7· · · · ·A· · ·Yes.· In this case, yes.
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`·8· · · · ·Q· · ·And it says that the source systems are
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`·9· ·stacked onto S4.
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`10· · · · · · · ·Do you see that?
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`11· · · · ·A· · ·It describes here the transfer set T1 as
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`12· ·S1, S2, S3 stacked onto S4.· I'm citing from the
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`13· ·specification 29 through 30.
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`14· · · · ·Q· · ·What is S4 in this example?
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`15· · · · ·A· · ·S4 is referred to here as an example of a
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`16· ·target.
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`17· · · · ·Q· · ·Is it a target system?
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`18· · · · ·A· · ·It can be a target system.
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`19· · · · ·Q· · ·What does it mean for a source system to
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`20· ·be stacked onto a target system?
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`21· · · · ·A· · ·As described in this transfer set, it
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`22· ·means that an evaluation has been completed or this
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`23· ·transfer set has been submitted for the evaluation.
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`24· · · · ·Q· · ·So a source system that is stacked onto a
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`25· ·target system means the source system -- strike that.
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`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 10
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`Page 11
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`·2· · · · · · · ·So a source system that has been stacked
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`·3· ·onto a target system means that that's -- the
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`·4· ·valuation for that source system has been completed
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`·5· ·or that the transfer set has been submitted; is that
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`·6· ·correct?
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`·7· · · · ·A· · ·No.· What I said is that the line, T1,
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`·8· ·representing transfer set T1, with the parenthesis
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`·9· ·S1, S2, S3 stacked onto S4, that parenthesis closed,
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`10· ·means that's the transfer set that is either
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`11· ·submitted for evaluation or it could be a transfer
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`12· ·set that has been already evaluated.
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`13· · · · · · · ·So it's a description of a transfer set
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`14· ·where the transfer set specifies source entities, a
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`15· ·target and a transfer type, the transfer type is
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`16· ·stacked.
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`17· · · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· So what does it mean for the
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`18· ·transfer type to be stacked?
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`19· · · · ·A· · ·That's all.· It's the type of transfer
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`20· ·set would be the type that's called stack.
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`21· · · · ·Q· · ·Well, what is entailed in the type called
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`22· ·stack?
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`23· · · · ·A· · ·Stack is a stack.· I mean, there are
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`24· ·other types, transfer types, in the specification.
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`25· ·It's one of those transfer types.
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`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 11
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`Page 12
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`·2· · · · ·Q· · ·And can you please explain to me what's
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`·3· ·entailed in a transfer that involves stacking a
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`·4· ·source system onto a target system?
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`·5· · · · ·A· · ·Again, we have to refer to the
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`·6· ·specification.· So let me open the specification.
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`·7· · · · · · · ·And so the specification, for example, in
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`·8· ·Column 2, Lines 20 through 30 in Column 2, describes
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`·9· ·an example, a nonlimiting example.· OS level
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`10· ·application stacking involves moving the applications
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`11· ·and data from one or more systems to a -- to the
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`12· ·consolidated system.· So they give an example, e.g.
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`13· ·System A running Application X and System B running
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`14· ·Application Y are moved onto System C, running
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`15· ·Application Z, such that System C runs Applications
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`16· ·X, Y, and Z.· So this is an example of the case where
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`17· ·there is already, in this example, Application Z
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`18· ·running on System C.
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`19· · · · · · · ·And, in this case, Z's an example again,
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`20· ·an example of a source system that's already placed
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`21· ·on Z -- on Z, and A that runs Application X, Y that's
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`22· ·running on System B, and X and Y are moved to System
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`23· ·C.
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`24· · · · ·Q· · ·So I believe you said that stacking a
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`25· ·source system onto a target system includes moving
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`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 12
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`Page 13
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`·2· ·the applications in our data from the source system
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`·3· ·to the target system; is that correct?
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`·4· · · · ·A· · ·As I said, it does not -- it's not
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`·5· ·necessary to move.· You can -- moving can be
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`·6· ·included, but it does not -- it's not necessary.
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`·7· · · · · · · ·The way I understand that in the context
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`·8· ·of the discussion we were having with Paragraph 76 or
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`·9· ·77, stacking is a type -- is a transfer type, and I
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`10· ·described what is -- what would be a nonlimiting
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`11· ·example of stacking.
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`12· · · · ·Q· · ·So moving applications and/or data is an
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`13· ·example of stacking, but not the only way to carry
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`14· ·out stacking; is that correct?
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`15· · · · · · · ·MR. EKLEM:· I think we lost your
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`16· · · · ·video, Diek.
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`17· · · · · · · ·MR. VAN NORT:· Sorry, my internet
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`18· · · · ·is struggling here so it may have gone
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`19· · · · ·blank for a moment, but I can still hear
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`20· · · · ·you and hopefully you guys can still hear
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`21· · · · ·me.
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`22· · · · · · · ·MR. EKLEM:· Yes.
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`23· ·BY MR. VAN NORT:
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`24· · · · ·Q· · ·If you're okay with if, we can just keep
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`25· ·going.· Otherwise, we can go off the record until I
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`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 13
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`·2· ·can fix it.
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`Page 14
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`·3· · · · ·A· · ·No, no, that's fine.· I can hear you.
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`·4· · · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Great.
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`·5· · · · ·A· · ·So, as I said, we were discussing an
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`·6· ·example of a transfer set and you had asked for an
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`·7· ·example of stacking, and I provided a nonlimiting
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`·8· ·example of stacking from Column 2 of the '159 [sic]
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`·9· ·patent, specifically Column 2, Lines 20 through 30.
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`10· · · · ·Q· · ·And in that example, stacking is carried
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`11· ·out by moving applications and/or data from a source
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`12· ·system to target system, correct?
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`13· · · · ·A· · ·In this paragraph, in this paragraph, in
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`14· ·Column 20 to 30, in this example, again, a
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`15· ·nonlimiting example, stacking involves moving
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`16· ·applications and data from one or more systems to the
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`17· ·consolidated system.
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`18· · · · · · · ·I specifically describe that with
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`19· ·examples shown here with A, B and C, three systems,
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`20· ·A, B and C and three applications, X, Y and Z.
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`21· · · · ·Q· · ·So going back then to the example of T1
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`22· ·at the end of your Paragraph 77, does that mean one
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`23· ·way for this transfer set to be carried out is for
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`24· ·applications and/or data to be moved from source
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`25· ·system S1, S2 and S3 onto S4?
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`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 14
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`·2· · · · ·A· · ·I mean, the question is not clear.
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`·3· · · · · · · ·All I said here is that this is a
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`Page 15
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`·4· ·transfer set and a transfer set is an example that is
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`·5· ·shown -- sorry.· An example of transfer set from
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`·6· ·Column 29, Lines 59 through Column 30, Line 7 is
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`·7· ·shown with the example T1 that describes S1, S2, S3
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`·8· ·as the source entities.· S4 as the target and the
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`·9· ·term stack as a transfer type.
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`10· · · · ·Q· · ·And the stack transfer type can entail
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`11· ·moving applications and/or data from the source
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`12· ·systems to the target system, correct?
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`13· · · · · · · ·MR. EKLEM:· Object to the form.
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`14· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Again, that's not my
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`15· · · · ·testimony.· My testimony is we're just
`
`16· · · · ·discussing a transfer set here and the
`
`17· · · · ·stack is a specific example of a transfer
`
`18· · · · ·type.
`
`19· ·BY MR. VAN NORT:
`
`20· · · · ·Q· · ·And that transfer type involves moving
`
`21· ·applications and/or data from one or more systems to
`
`22· ·the target system; is that right?
`
`23· · · · · · · ·MR. EKLEM:· Objection.· Form.
`
`24· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Again, counsel, I
`
`25· · · · ·think we looked at some examples of how
`
`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 15
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
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`
`
`Page 16
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`·2· · · · ·the term stacking is used in the
`
`·3· · · · ·specification and we provided a
`
`·4· · · · ·nonlimiting example from Column 2 with
`
`·5· · · · ·respect to Lines 20 to 30 where I
`
`·6· · · · ·described a nonlimiting example of a
`
`·7· · · · ·noise level application stacking where
`
`·8· · · · ·applications X, Y and Z were illustrating
`
`·9· · · · ·a nonlimiting example of application
`
`10· · · · ·stacking.
`
`11· ·BY MR. VAN NORT:
`
`12· · · · ·Q· · ·So using that example of application
`
`13· ·stacking and applying it to your example of your
`
`14· ·transfer set T1, would that involve -- strike that.
`
`15· · · · · · · ·So the OS level application stacking that
`
`16· ·you described at Column 2, Line 20 to approximately
`
`17· ·Line 29, that is an example of what stacked can refer
`
`18· ·to in your example at the end of your Paragraph 77?
`
`19· · · · ·A· · ·Again, that's not my testimony.· My
`
`20· ·testimony is I provided a transfer set example,
`
`21· ·and -- as I was referring to Columns 29 and 30, and
`
`22· ·as a part of it -- as a part of the description of a
`
`23· ·transfer set, there was an indication of what is a
`
`24· ·transfer type.· And in that transfer set T1, the
`
`25· ·application of the transfer type was something called
`
`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 16
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
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`
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`·2· ·stack, stacked onto.
`
`Page 17
`
`·3· · · · · · · ·You asked me for an example of what
`
`·4· ·stacked -- stacked means, or stacking means. I
`
`·5· ·provided a nonlimiting example from Column 2, Lines
`
`·6· ·20 to 30.
`
`·7· · · · ·Q· · ·And in that example of what stacked
`
`·8· ·means, it includes moving applications and/or data
`
`·9· ·from one or more source systems to a target system,
`
`10· ·correct?
`
`11· · · · ·A· · ·Again, that's not my testimony.
`
`12· · · · · · · ·My testimony is that I provided an
`
`13· ·example of a transfer set and then that example
`
`14· ·stands by itself, and I provided an example of how
`
`15· ·the term stack is used in a nonlimiting manner in the
`
`16· ·specification and we referred to Column 2, Lines 20
`
`17· ·to 30.
`
`18· · · · ·Q· · ·So your example of transfer set 1 at the
`
`19· ·end of Paragraph 77, when that example refers to
`
`20· ·stacked, is an example of what that's referring to
`
`21· ·the OS level application stacking that you've pointed
`
`22· ·to in Column 2?
`
`23· · · · ·A· · ·As I said here, in the transfer set it's
`
`24· ·called a transfer type.· So stack is a type of
`
`25· ·transfer.· And one of the examples, a nonlimiting
`
`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 17
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
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`
`Page 18
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`·2· ·example of stack used in the specification in a
`
`·3· ·nonlimiting manner is the example from Column 2,
`
`·4· ·Lines 20 to 30.
`
`·5· · · · ·Q· · ·And that example includes moving
`
`·6· ·applications and/or data, correct?
`
`·7· · · · · · · ·MR. EKLEM:· Objection.· Form.
`
`·8· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· No, the example,
`
`·9· · · · ·again, is a nonlimiting example, and the
`
`10· · · · ·example is represented and described in
`
`11· · · · ·Columns 2, 20 to 30.· I will defer to the
`
`12· · · · ·language of the specification itself to
`
`13· · · · ·describe what it's disclosing.· It is
`
`14· · · · ·disclosing an example, a nonlimiting
`
`15· · · · ·example of OS level -- OS level
`
`16· · · · ·application stacking.
`
`17· ·BY MR. VAN NORT:
`
`18· · · · ·Q· · ·And OS level application stacking
`
`19· ·involves moving applications and/or data, correct?
`
`20· · · · ·A· · ·Again, the specification describes what
`
`21· ·it covers in this particular nonlimiting example from
`
`22· ·Columns 20 to 30 -- sorry -- from Lines 20 to 30 in
`
`23· ·Column 2, where there is a nonlimiting example of --
`
`24· ·shown with respect to systems A, B and C and
`
`25· ·applications X, Y and Z.
`
`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 18
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
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`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`Page 19
`
`·2· · · · ·Q· · ·So I understand it's a nonlimiting
`
`·3· ·example, so maybe we'll put that language into the
`
`·4· ·question to see if that helps.
`
`·5· · · · · · · ·In the nonlimiting example of OS level
`
`·6· ·application stacking that you've just pointed to, it
`
`·7· ·involves moving applications and/or data, correct?
`
`·8· · · · ·A· · ·Again, I would defer to the language here
`
`·9· ·in Column 20 -- in Column 2.· The specification
`
`10· ·describes in this nonlimiting example OS
`
`11· ·level-application stacking involves moving the
`
`12· ·applications and data from one or more systems to the
`
`13· ·consolidated systems.
`
`14· · · · · · · ·And it goes further and gives an example
`
`15· ·that a system A running application X, a system B
`
`16· ·running application Y, are moved onto system C
`
`17· ·running application C, such that system C runs
`
`18· ·applications X, Y and Z.
`
`19· · · · · · · ·I'm reading from Column 2.
`
`20· · · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· So I would like you to use this
`
`21· ·example of stacking in the context of your transfer
`
`22· ·set 1 at the end of your Paragraph 77.· Can you do
`
`23· ·that?
`
`24· · · · ·A· · ·I'm not sure what you mean use.
`
`25· · · · · · · ·I was giving an example of a transfer set
`
`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 19
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
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`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`Page 20
`
`·2· ·in Column -- in Paragraph 77, where it says there's a
`
`·3· ·transfer set T1, and that the transfer set has a
`
`·4· ·certain way of how it's described and it includes one
`
`·5· ·or more source entities, the target and a transfer
`
`·6· ·type.
`
`·7· · · · ·Q· · ·So using the example of OS level
`
`·8· ·application stacking from Column 2, how would source
`
`·9· ·system 1, S1, S2 and S3, in transfer set 1 be stacked
`
`10· ·onto S4?
`
`11· · · · ·A· · ·Again, I'm not sure what you mean by S1,
`
`12· ·S2, S3 stacked onto S4.
`
`13· · · · · · · ·T1 is a transfer set that is either being
`
`14· ·evaluated or -- being evaluated or has been
`
`15· ·evaluated.
`
`16· · · · ·Q· · ·So I am asking, how would transfer set 1,
`
`17· ·that you list at the end of Paragraph 77, be
`
`18· ·accomplished via OS level application stacking that
`
`19· ·you described as an example of stacked and -- in
`
`20· ·Column 2?
`
`21· · · · · · · ·MR. EKLEM:· Objection.· Form.
`
`22· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Again, I'm not sure
`
`23· · · · ·what you mine by accomplished.
`
`24· · · · · · · ·I mean the process of evaluation
`
`25· · · · ·uses transfer sets and the transfer sets
`
`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 20
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
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`
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`Page 21
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`·2· · · · ·are shown using a certain format, and
`
`·3· · · · ·these transfer sets are evaluated as
`
`·4· · · · ·examples, as in the specification.
`
`·5· ·BY MR. VAN NORT:
`
`·6· · · · ·Q· · ·Well, what is done with a transfer set
`
`·7· ·after it's been defined?
`
`·8· · · · ·A· · ·It's evaluated.
`
`·9· · · · ·Q· · ·And then after it's been evaluated, what
`
`10· ·is done with it?
`
`11· · · · ·A· · ·That's all.· It's evaluated.· And after
`
`12· ·it completes evaluation, the specification goes into
`
`13· ·different options and describes, for example,
`
`14· ·providing a consolidation solution and other things.
`
`15· · · · · · · ·Again, the specification speaks for
`
`16· ·itself as to how these transfer sets are used and
`
`17· ·what are produced as a result of that.
`
`18· · · · ·Q· · ·How is the transfer set used after it's
`
`19· ·been evaluated?
`
`20· · · · · · · ·MR. EKLEM:· Objection.· Form.
`
`21· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· As I said, I mean it
`
`22· · · · ·could be part of a consolidation
`
`23· · · · ·solution.· It could be -- it could -- as
`
`24· · · · ·I said, in the specification, there are
`
`25· · · · ·many different nonlimiting embodiments
`
`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 21
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
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`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
`
`·2· · · · ·that show how transfer sets can be used.
`
`·3· · · · · · · ·One example would be that it's
`
`·4· · · · ·provided as a part of consolidation
`
`Page 22
`
`·5· · · · ·solution.
`
`·6· ·BY MR. VAN NORT:
`
`·7· · · · ·Q· · ·What's a consolidation solution?
`
`·8· · · · ·A· · ·It's -- it's an example, again, of -- I
`
`·9· ·believe it is -- it -- there's a description in
`
`10· ·Column 39 that -- in Column 39, that goes from Lines
`
`11· ·15 through 25, that, accordingly, the compatibility
`
`12· ·and consolidation analysis can be performed on a
`
`13· ·collection of systems to evaluate 1-to-1
`
`14· ·compatibility of every source target there, evaluate
`
`15· ·the multidimensional compatibility of specific
`
`16· ·transfer sets and, three, to be the best
`
`17· ·consolidated -- consolidation solution based on
`
`18· ·various constraints, including the compatibility
`
`19· ·scores of the transfer set.
`
`20· · · · · · · ·So the consolidation solution that is
`
`21· ·provided in this example includes the scoring from
`
`22· ·the transfer sets.
`
`23· · · · ·Q· · ·And, I'm sorry.· Could you point me again
`
`24· ·to where you were referring to in the specification
`
`25· ·there?
`
`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 22
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
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`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
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`Page 23
`
`·2· · · · ·A· · ·I'm referring to Column 39, Lines 15
`
`·3· ·through 25 -- through 24, for example.
`
`·4· · · · ·Q· · ·After a transfer set -- so do you see in
`
`·5· ·this paragraph that you just referred to where it
`
`·6· ·says specific transfer sets?
`
`·7· · · · ·A· · ·Yes, on line number -- Column 39, Lines
`
`·8· ·19 through 20.
`
`·9· · · · ·Q· · ·Is the example of T1 at the end of
`
`10· ·Paragraph 77 of your declaration, is that an example
`
`11· ·of a specific transfer set?
`
`12· · · · ·A· · ·It's an example -- or it's a nonlimiting
`
`13· ·example of a transfer set.
`
`14· · · · ·Q· · ·Is it an example of a specific transfer
`
`15· ·set?
`
`16· · · · · · · ·MR. EKLEM:· Objection.· Form.
`
`17· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Again, I'm not sure
`
`18· · · · ·as to what you specifically mean by that.
`
`19· · · · ·But all I said is that a transfer set as
`
`20· · · · ·described in the '459, and I provide an
`
`21· · · · ·example from Column 29 through 30.
`
`22· ·BY MR. VAN NORT:
`
`23· · · · ·Q· · ·So going back to Column 39, Lines -- I
`
`24· ·think you said 15 through 24, that we were just
`
`25· ·talking about, do you see there where it says
`
`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 23
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
`
`
`
`Page 24
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
`
`·2· ·specific transfer sets?
`
`·3· · · · ·A· · ·It's talking about evaluating the
`
`·4· ·multidimensional compatibility of specific transfer
`
`·5· ·sets.
`
`·6· · · · ·Q· · ·So the reference there to specific
`
`·7· ·transfer sets, is your example of transfer set T1
`
`·8· ·from Paragraph 77 of your declaration an example of
`
`·9· ·the specific transfer set?
`
`10· · · · · · · ·MR. EKLEM:· Objection.· Form.
`
`11· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Again, that's not my
`
`12· · · · ·opinion.· All I was saying here is that
`
`13· · · · ·you asked me what a consolidation
`
`14· · · · ·solution was and I provided an example of
`
`15· · · · ·how the specification of the '459
`
`16· · · · ·describes one -- one nonlimiting
`
`17· · · · ·description of a consolidation solution.
`
`18· ·BY MR. VAN NORT:
`
`19· · · · ·Q· · ·So I am asking for your opinion of
`
`20· ·whether the example transfer set T1 in your
`
`21· ·declaration is an example of the specific transfer
`
`22· ·set that you just pointed me to in Paragraph -- in
`
`23· ·Column 39 at Lines 14 through 24?
`
`24· · · · · · · ·MR. EKLEM:· Objection.· Form.
`
`25· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· It is just another
`
`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 24
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
`
`
`
`Page 25
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
`
`·2· · · · ·example, as I was saying.· It is a
`
`·3· · · · ·generic example of a transfer set, no
`
`·4· · · · ·more, that is consistent with the
`
`·5· · · · ·disclosures of the '459.· It's just a
`
`·6· · · · ·generic example.
`
`·7· ·BY MR. VAN NORT:
`
`·8· · · · ·Q· · ·So in column 39, when it is referring to
`
`·9· ·a specific transfer set, can you give me an example
`
`10· ·of a specific transfer set?
`
`11· · · · ·A· · ·Again, I would -- I have not thought
`
`12· ·about that issue.· I don't have a specific opinion at
`
`13· ·this point.
`
`14· · · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· So I'd like to go back to the end
`
`15· ·of your Paragraph 77, in your example, transfer set
`
`16· ·T1.
`
`17· · · · ·A· · ·Okay.
`
`18· · · · ·Q· · ·So OS level stacking is an example of how
`
`19· ·source systems S1, S2, S3 can be stacked onto target
`
`20· ·system S4; is that correct?
`
`21· · · · ·A· · ·Again, I think I answered that before.
`
`22· · · · · · · ·I mean, all I was providing here is that
`
`23· ·generic example of a transfer set from Column 29
`
`24· ·through 30 of the '459 that includes a source entity,
`
`25· ·one or more source entities, a target and a transfer
`
`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 25
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
`
`·2· ·type.
`
`Page 26
`
`·3· · · · · · · ·And the transfer type in this case is
`
`·4· ·called stacking and I provided -- in response to your
`
`·5· ·question was to what stacking -- an example of -- a
`
`·6· ·nonlimiting example of stacking is, I provided and
`
`·7· ·pointed you to a nonlimiting example of stacking in
`
`·8· ·Column 20 -- in Column 2, Lines 20 to 30.
`
`·9· · · · ·Q· · ·And using that example in the context of
`
`10· ·transfer set T1, stacking source systems S1, S2 and
`
`11· ·S3 onto S4 involves moving applications and/or data
`
`12· ·from the source systems to the target system; is that
`
`13· ·correct?
`
`14· · · · · · · ·MR. EKLEM:· Object to the form.
`
`15· · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Again, I answered
`
`16· · · · ·that before.· That's not my opinion.· My
`
`17· · · · ·opinion is already clear.· I provided an
`
`18· · · · ·example of a transfer set and that's it.
`
`19· · · · ·No more.
`
`20· ·BY MR. VAN NORT:
`
`21· · · · ·Q· · ·And I'm asking you, in your example of a
`
`22· ·transfer set, if you applied the example of stacking
`
`23· ·as OS level stacking, does that involve moving
`
`24· ·applications and/or data from S1, S2 and S3 onto S4?
`
`25· · · · ·A· · ·As I said, counsel, this is just an
`
`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 26
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
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`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
`
`Page 27
`
`·2· ·example of a transfer set.· The Column 2 refers to,
`
`·3· ·again, a nonlimiting example of a particular type of
`
`·4· ·stacking.· That's separate, and it's described
`
`·5· ·separately in the '459 patent.· It's a nonlimiting
`
`·6· ·example.
`
`·7· · · · · · · ·It may only not involve moving, but in
`
`·8· ·that particular nonlimiting example it describes what
`
`·9· ·that nonlimiting example means in Column 2, 20 to 30,
`
`10· ·and I defer to the language in the spec with respect
`
`11· ·to this nonlimiting example.· But, there could be
`
`12· ·other examples and all I'm pointing to is one
`
`13· ·nonlimiting example.
`
`14· · · · ·Q· · ·Can you apply the example of OS level
`
`15· ·application stacking that you identified in Column 2
`
`16· ·to your example of a Transfer Set T1 at the end of
`
`17· ·Paragraph 77?
`
`18· · · · ·A· · ·I'm not sure as to your question,
`
`19· ·counsel.· The transfer sets, as used in the
`
`20· ·specification, are used in particular ways,
`
`21· ·specifically in the evaluations, and I defer to the
`
`22· ·specification to disclose what it discloses.
`
`23· · · · ·Q· · ·For transfer set -- a transfer set in
`
`24· ·general, how can a transfer set be implemented?
`
`25· · · · ·A· · ·I'm not sure as to your question,
`
`VMware, Inc. Exhibit 1023 Page 27
`VMware, Inc. vs. Cirba IP, Inc. PGR2021-00098
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·V. MADISETTI
`
`Page 28
`
`·2· ·counselor.· Transfer set is created and evaluated as
`
`·3· ·described in the specification.
`
`·4· · · · ·Q· · ·And what is -- what is involved in the
`
`·5· ·evaluation process of a transfer set?
`
`·6· · · · ·A· · ·Again, the specification describes
`
`·7· ·various types of evaluation.· The claim describes
`
`·8· ·examples of evaluations, which include, in a
`
`·9· ·nonlimiting manner, use of transfer set.
`
`10· · · · · · · ·So it's just certain embodiments in the
`
`11· ·specification that illustrate how the claims would be
`
`12· ·carried out with respect to some of the evaluations.
`
`13· · · · ·Q· · ·Does the evaluation of a transfer set
`
`14· ·involve moving applications and/or data?
`
`15· · · · · · · ·MR. EKLEM:· Objection.· Form.
`
`16· ·
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