U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
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`January 10, 2024
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`1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`----------------------------------- )
`SYNGENTA CROP PROTECTION AG, )Case No.
` Petitioner, )PGR2023-00017
` vs. )
`UPL LTD., )US Patent no.
` Patent Owner. )11,445,727
`----------------------------------- )
`
` DEPOSITION OF BARRY JACOBSEN, Ph.D.
` WASHINGTON, D.C.
` JANUARY 10, 2024
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`REPORTED BY: Tina Alfaro, RPR, CRR, RMR
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 1 of 352
`Syngenta v. UPL, PGR2023-00017
`
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`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
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`January 10, 2024
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`----------------------------------- )
`SYNGENTA CROP PROTECTION AG, )Case No.
` Petitioner, )PGR2023-00017
` vs. )
`UPL LTD., )US Patent no.
` Patent Owner. )11,445,727
`----------------------------------- )
`
` DEPOSITION OF BARRY JACOBSEN, Ph.D.
` WASHINGTON, D.C.
` JANUARY 10, 2024
`
`REPORTED BY: Tina Alfaro, RPR, CRR, RMR
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 1 of 352
`Syngenta v. UPL, PGR2023-00017
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
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`January 10, 2024
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` Videotaped deposition of BARRY JACOBSEN,,
`Ph.D., held at the offices of:
`
` Finnegan Henderson Farabow Garrett &
` Dunner, LLP
` 901 New York Avenue, NW
` Washington, D.C. 20001
`
` Taken pursuant to notice before Tina M.
`Alfaro, a Notary Public within and for the District
`of Columbia.
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 2 of 352
`Syngenta v. UPL, PGR2023-00017
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
`
`January 10, 2024
`
`3
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`APPEARANCES:
` ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
` BAKERHOSTETLER
` BY: CHARLES CARSON, ESQ.
` DAVID KLECYNGIER, ESQ.
` 1050 Connecticut Avenue, NW
` Washington, D.C. 20036
`
` ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
` FINNEGAN HENDERSON FARABOW GARRETT & DUNNER
` BY: MARK FELDSTEIN, Ph.D., ESQ.
` KENNETH GUERRA, ESQ.
` 901 New York Avenue, NW
` Washington, D.C. 20001
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 3 of 352
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
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`January 10, 2024
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` I N D E X
` EXAMINATION
`WITNESS PAGE
`BARRY J. JACOBSEN, PH.D.
` By Mr. Carson 6
` EXHIBITS
`SYNGENTA EXHIBITS PAGE
`Exhibit 1034 199
` Submission by UPL to European Patent
` Office in support of a European patent
` application that claims priority to the
` Oliveira patent application
`Exhibit 1035 88
` De Oliveira affidavit
`Exhibit 1038 79
` UPL document submitted to Patent Office
`Exhibit 1039 107
` Preliminary response
`
`Exhibit 1040 155
` Jacobsen patent
`Exhibit 1041 160
` Document re application of fungicides
`
`Exhibit 1042 163
` Detailed method descriptions
` PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS
`SYNGENTA EXHIBITS PAGE
`Exhibit 1001 20
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 4 of 352
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
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`January 10, 2024
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` PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS
`SYNGENTA EXHIBITS PAGE
`Exhibit 1004 75
` Godoy Article (Portuguese)
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`Exhibit 1005 75
` Godoy article (translated)
`Exhibit 1006 40
` Tobler patent
`
`Exhibit 1007 69
` De Oliveira reference
`Exhibit 1012 177
` Colby reference
`
`Exhibit 1021 72
` De Oliveira declaration
`Exhibit 1022 59
` Supplemental declaration of Sylvia
` Hall-Ellis
`Exhibit 1030 121
` Machado reference
`UPL EXHIBITS PAGE
`Exhibit 2020 19
` Jacobsen Declaration
`Exhibit 2030 169
` The Pesticide Manual
`
`Exhibit 2060 214
` FRAC document
`
` NOTE: Exhibits 1036 and 1037
` were not marked
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 5 of 352
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
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`January 10, 2024
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` (Witness sworn.)
`WHEREUPON:
` BARRY J. JACOBSEN, Ph.D.,
`called as a witness herein, having been first duly
`sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. CARSON:
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Jacobsen. How are
`you?
` A. Just fine thank you.
` Q. Have you been deposed before?
` A. Yes.
` Q. When's the last time you were deposed?
` A. Probably more than ten years ago.
` Q. More than ten years ago. Okay. So just
`to refresh your recollection on the process, I'm
`sure you've discussed it with your attorneys, but
`obviously I'll be asking the questions, you'll be
`answering the questions. The court reporter's
`taking down everything that we say. So to
`facilitate her job if you could wait until I'm
`finished with a question before you start answering
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`January 10, 2024
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`so that we're not talking over each other, and I'll
`likewise try to let you finish your answers before
`I ask the next question.
` If I ask a yes-or-no question, you'll have
`to give a verbal answer. A head nod obviously
`can't be captured on the transcript.
` A. I understand that.
` Q. Okay. From time to time your attorney may
`object to a question that I ask. Unless your
`attorney instructs you not to answer, you still
`have to answer the question to the extent you
`understand it. If at any point you don't
`understand a question I've asked, please ask me to
`clarify.
` We will take regular breaks, perhaps every
`hour or so. If you need a break, though, as long
`as there's not a question pending, please feel free
`to let me know and we'll take a break.
` A. Thank you.
` Q. I think that covers it.
` So how many times have you been deposed?
` A. I don't know. It's probably more than
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`January 10, 2024
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`ten, less than 20. Over 50 years I can't remember.
`I've been retired now completely for about seven
`years. So...
` Q. Okay. Okay. So when you say you've been
`retired completely, what do you mean by that?
` A. I'm no longer affiliated with my
`university employer on a full-time basis. I've
`done some part-time things and some consulting, but
`that's it. I mostly play golf and train bird
`dogs.
` Q. Okay. And you said you're no longer
`affiliated with your university employer. Would
`that be Montana State University?
` A. Montana State, that's correct.
` Q. But you are doing some consulting work or
`you have since retiring?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And do you consider the work you're doing
`on this case to be consulting work?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. Are you doing any other consulting work
`right now?
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 8 of 352
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
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`January 10, 2024
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` A. Yes.
` Q. Is any of that work on behalf of UPL,
`apart from this particular matter?
` A. No.
` Q. The other consulting work that you're
`presently doing, is that as an expert?
` A. It's as an agricultural consultant for
`potato farms.
` Q. So it's not part of any legal
`proceeding?
` A. No.
` Q. You understand that your services that
`you're rendering for UPL are part of a legal
`proceeding, correct?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. You're serving as an expert for them; is
`that right?
` A. Yes, I understand that.
` Q. Have you served as an expert in any other
`legal proceedings?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Are you currently serving as an expert in
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 9 of 352
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
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`January 10, 2024
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`another proceeding?
` A. No.
` Q. When's the last time you were an expert?
` A. Like I said, I'm going to guess about ten
`years ago.
` Q. Okay. And what sort of case was that?
` A. I believe in my recollection it would be a
`marine arbitration case. I think it was cargo
`wheat that went from a port in Texas to Mexico. It
`could have been another case where a grain elevator
`blew up in Corpus Christi, Texas. So they were
`about the same time, two different cases.
` Q. Okay. So a marine case and a grain
`elevator case?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And the deposition that you did ten years
`ago, was that part of one of those two cases?
` A. Yeah. I'm trying to remember -- yes.
` Q. But you don't remember which one?
` A. No.
` THE REPORTER: I'm sorry. You both have
`to keep your voices up. Thank you.
`
`202-220-4158
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 10 of 352
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
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`January 10, 2024
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` Q. So prior to your work on this case you had
`not served as an expert in the last ten years; is
`that fair?
` A. In a legal case, no.
` Q. Okay. What does that distinction mean to
`you?
` A. Well, I've continued to serve my potato
`farm clients.
` Q. So have you -- in the last ten years have
`you been putting yourself out there as a potential
`expert in legal proceedings?
` A. No.
` Q. So when -- I take it you were approached
`by UPL at some point to serve as an expert here?
` A. I was approached by Rubin Anders, which I
`guess is a firm that people hire to find experts.
` Q. Okay. So your understanding is that UPL
`or a representative from UPL reached out to Robin
`Anders who in turned reached out to you; is that
`your understanding?
` A. Yes, that's my understanding.
` Q. And when did Robin Anders reach out to
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 11 of 352
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
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`January 10, 2024
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`you?
` A. I think it's Rubin Anders.
` My recollection is six to eight months
`ago.
` Q. Okay. So that would be, what, June, July
`2023?
` A. I believe so, yes.
` Q. So in the summer?
` A. That's just my recollection. I could look
`back in my e-mails, but I don't have them available
`to me.
` Q. Okay. So they reached out to you and then
`how did you come to actually be retained?
` A. Rubin Anders asked me for -- did somewhat
`of an interview and asked me for a CV. And then I
`didn't hear back from them until about a week later
`and they said that their client had decided to
`retain me, and that's when the attorneys from
`Finnegan first contacted me.
` Q. Okay. And when was that?
` A. Six months ago, in that ballpark.
` Q. Okay. So June, July 2023?
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 12 of 352
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`January 10, 2024
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` A. My recollection is that, yes.
` Q. Okay. It wasn't before that?
` A. No.
` Q. Okay. Prior to being formally retained by
`Finnegan had you seen any materials, documents
`related to this case?
` A. No, I did not.
` Q. So is it fair to say that you agreed to
`serve as an expert without having reviewed any
`materials related to this case?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. Did you ask to review any materials
`related to this case before agreeing to be
`retained?
` A. I did not ask to see any materials, no. I
`did ask what the case involved.
` Q. Okay.
` A. And orally that was communicated to me.
` Q. Okay. Was that a phone call?
` A. Yes, it would have been by phone call or
`Zoom call. I can't remember.
` Q. How long did that call last?
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` A. Less than five minutes.
` Q. Okay. So was that -- did they interview
`you for the position?
` A. Finnegan did not interview me. The Rubin
`Anders people did.
` Q. Okay. But the five-minute conversation
`that you mentioned, that was a conversation with
`Finnegan?
` A. With one of their attorneys that's no
`longer associated with Finnegan, to the best of my
`understanding.
` Q. And it was after that five-minute call
`that you were formally retained?
` A. Then they sent me some materials to review
`and then we continued on since that time.
` Q. But in terms of, you know, signing the
`dotted line saying I'll serve as an expert, was
`that before or after the five-minute call?
` A. I signed on the dotted line with Rubin
`Anders, not with Finnegan. I bill Rubin Anders,
`Rubin Anders bills Finnegan.
` Q. So when was that five-minute call with
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`Finnegan?
` A. Within the last six months.
` Q. Okay.
` A. I mean, I don't -- I don't have my
`calendar in front of me, I do not have my computer.
`I could give you an exact time if I had that, but I
`don't have it. And I don't have my phone with me
`either.
` Q. So after that call you were sent materials
`related to this case?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. Do you recall what you were sent?
` MR. FELDSTEIN: And I'm going to direct
`you -- it's a yes-or-no question, Doctor. I'm
`going to direct you to answer it that way in order
`to avoid potentially revealing any attorney-client
`communication or work product. Do you understand?
`Do you need the question back?
` MR. CARSON: The question is do you, yes
`or no, recall what documents you were sent.
` A. No. I'm answering that in that way
`because the attorney told me not to reveal what was
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`sent to me.
` Q. I'm just asking you if you remember what
`was sent to you.
` A. I remember.
` Q. Okay.
` MR. FELDSTEIN: My caution was not to
`reveal what, if anything, was sent. That's why I
`asked you to answer yes or no do you remember.
` A. So if the question is do I remember,
`yes.
` Q. Okay. And did you rely on those documents
`in preparing your declaration and opinions?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. So what documents were those?
` A. Well, there was what we, quote, term the
`'727 Patent.
` Q. Okay.
` A. I believe the documents have come over
`time. I believe the Syngenta petition to review
`the patent or whatever that petition is. And I
`believe there were papers by Tobler, the Tobler
`patent, De Oliveira patent, de Souza, the
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 16 of 352
`Syngenta v. UPL, PGR2023-00017
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
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`January 10, 2024
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`translation of the Godoy article, a set of APS
`abstracts that had an abstract from Wigelsworth in
`there. That's what I recall at this time.
` Q. In May of last year UPL filed with the
`Patent Office, the patent board a preliminary
`response to Syngenta's petition. Were you provided
`a copy of that?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. Do you recall -- have you ever reviewed
`the preliminary response that UPL submitted?
` A. To the best of my knowledge, I didn't rely
`on it for the declaration.
` Q. I'm actually just asking if you've looked
`at it.
` A. I just said I didn't recall.
` Q. Okay. Just to clarify, I wasn't -- I
`wasn't ignoring your responses. I assumed that you
`had testified that you didn't get it upfront, and
`my question was whether you had ever read it since.
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. Okay.
` Okay. I'd like to step back and ask you
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 17 of 352
`Syngenta v. UPL, PGR2023-00017
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`January 10, 2024
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`some more questions about your background, but
`before we do that just one preliminary matter that
`I forgot to cover. Are you taking any medication
`that would affect your testimony today?
` A. No, I am not.
` Q. And you mentioned your prior relationship
`with Montana State University. What was that
`relationship?
` A. Well, it went over quite a long time. I
`was initially hired there as a Dean of the college
`of agriculture, director of the Ag Experiment
`Station. Stepped out of that job and went into
`being a senior professor with the research and
`extension responsibilities. Then I took a -- very
`quickly after I resigned the deanship I took an
`assignment with the United States Department of
`Agriculture to run their integrated pest management
`initiative and did that for about two and a half
`years. I was here in Washington, D.C. for about
`80 percent of my time and I went back and forth.
`Then when I went back on faculty I continued as a
`professor, and then they asked me to run the
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 18 of 352
`Syngenta v. UPL, PGR2023-00017
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
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`January 10, 2024
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`Department of Research Centers and they asked me to
`be the associate director of the Ag Experiment
`Station and basically run the research operation
`for scientists in the Ag Experiment Station. That
`was my last job.
` Q. Okay. And when did that job end?
` A. I believe it was in 2019. I think that
`was my last paycheck. It's listed in my CV.
` Q. Okay. So I see that you have some
`documents there in front of you. What are those
`documents?
` A. This is my declaration, this is a set of
`Syngenta data that was submitted and given to me,
`and this is the '727 Patent.
` Q. Okay. And just to make sure the record's
`clear, the declaration you referred to is
`Exhibit 2020?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And the data you mentioned are for
`Exhibits 1031, 1032, and 1033; is that correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. Okay. And then I'm sorry. What's the
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 19 of 352
`Syngenta v. UPL, PGR2023-00017
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
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`January 10, 2024
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`third document there? If you could provide the
`exhibit number.
` A. This document is the UPL '727 Patent.
` Q. And that's Exhibit 1001, correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. And are those clean copies of those
`documents?
` A. Yes, with one exception. There's two red
`tabs in here, in the declaration.
` Q. Okay. And what are those red tabs?
` A. The red tabs are denoting typos in the
`table.
` Q. Okay. Are those typos in Appendix B?
` A. One is in the declaration and the same
`table is in Appendix B.
` Q. Okay. Well, I may ask you about those
`tabs later today perhaps.
` A. Okay.
` Q. So Appendix A in Exhibit 2020 is your CV;
`is that correct? If you could turn to that.
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. And looking at the first page there
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 20 of 352
`Syngenta v. UPL, PGR2023-00017
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
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`January 10, 2024
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`of Appendix A, you've got some personal
`information, education, employment experience,
`correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is all of that completely accurate?
` A. I believe so.
` Q. Okay. And can you describe for me the
`circumstances surrounding your -- the end of your
`professorship at Montana State University?
` A. I was 70 years old and it was time to
`retire. My wife and I had -- it was just time to
`retire.
` Q. Okay. I take it you weren't asked to
`leave?
` A. Oh, no.
` Q. Have you ever been asked to leave any
`position that you've had as reflected in the CV?
` A. No.
` Q. You've never been fired from a position?
` A. I've never been fired.
` Q. And your resume says that you're an
`emeritus professor, July 1st, 2013 to present?
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 21 of 352
`Syngenta v. UPL, PGR2023-00017
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
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`January 10, 2024
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` A. That's correct.
` Q. You don't have any present
`responsibilities as an emeritus professor?
` A. I don't have any present responsibilities,
`no.
` Q. What is an emeritus professor?
` A. The title is bestowed by the university to
`people that they want to honor with continuing
`relationship and it gives you the right to use the
`library, to use the Internet resources. If I was
`on campus I would have an office. Probably would
`be sharing with somebody. The right to use the
`university facilities, but I don't reside in Bozman
`anymore. So...
` Q. But if you did reside in Bozman, you would
`have access to those amenities?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. Have you ever been sued before?
` A. Personally?
` Q. Yes.
` A. No.
` Q. Have you ever been named as a party in a
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 22 of 352
`Syngenta v. UPL, PGR2023-00017
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
`
`January 10, 2024
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`lawsuit?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. What sort of suit was that?
` A. It was a traffic accident in Bozman,
`Montana. I was never asked to do a deposition or
`appear in court and the insurance company took care
`of everything.
` Q. You've never been named as a party in a
`lawsuit in conjunction with Montana State
`University?
` A. Yes. It involved a termination of an
`employee, and the employee was not happy.
` Q. Okay. Is there any reason why you didn't
`mention that in answer to my first question?
` A. Because I just remembered it.
` Q. Okay. So can you just tell me what that
`was about beyond the one-sentence description you
`just gave?
` MR. FELDSTEIN: I'll caution you, Doctor,
`to the extent you have confidentiality obligations
`to the university or other third parties, that I
`don't believe counsel is asking you to violate
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`202-220-4158
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`Henderson Legal Services
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`
`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 23 of 352
`Syngenta v. UPL, PGR2023-00017
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
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`January 10, 2024
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`those.
` A. That would be a violation of
`confidentiality to name the party involved and the
`circumstances.
` Q. Are there any public documents relating to
`the suit that you're aware of?
` A. The lawsuit was settled out of court.
`That's all I can tell you.
` Q. Was a complaint filed?
` A. The employee filed a complaint, that is
`correct.
` Q. So what was alleged in there?
` MR. FELDSTEIN: Again, Doctor, if the
`allegations are confidential and you have duties of
`confidentiality, I don't believe counsel is asking
`you to violate those.
` A. I can't discuss that. I've been told I
`couldn't discuss it and I've not been released from
`that.
` Q. Okay. Were you found at fault in any way?
` MR. FELDSTEIN: Again, if any of that
`information is confidential, Doctor, I don't
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`202-220-4158
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`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 24 of 352
`Syngenta v. UPL, PGR2023-00017
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
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`January 10, 2024
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`believe counsel is asking you to violate any
`confidentiality.
` A. I can answer that there were no findings
`in the case. The lawsuit was settled out of court.
` Q. Did the lawsuit affect in any way your
`relationship with Montana State University?
` A. No, it did not.
` Q. What are you being paid for your work on
`this case?
` A. I charge an hourly rate when I'm working
`from home, and I charge a rate -- a different rate
`when I travel and it's portal to portal. If you
`need a specific number -- do you need a specific
`number?
` Q. I'm asking you what your rate is, yes,
`sir.
` A. For working at home I charge a hundred
`dollars an hour with a half hour minimum.
` Q. Okay.
` A. And when I'm traveling I believe it's a
`thousand dollars a day with a half-day minimum
`charge.
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`202-220-4158
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 25 of 352
`Syngenta v. UPL, PGR2023-00017
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
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`January 10, 2024
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` Q. So is that in addition to the hundred
`dollars per hour?
` A. No.
` Q. You said portal to portal. What did you
`mean by that?
` A. That's from the time I leave home until
`the time I'm back at my home.
` Q. I see. Okay. And it's a thousand dollars
`a day whether you work an hour or ten hours?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. Do you know how many hours you've worked
`on this matter?
` A. I haven't totaled them all up. I bill
`Rubin Anders on a monthly basis. So no, I don't
`know the total number of hours.
` Q. You said you have not totaled them all
`up?
` A. I have not totaled them all up.
` Q. Do you have a ballpark idea?
` A. 75 to 80 hours, plus or minus five or ten
`hours, and that does not include the time here in
`Washington, D.C.
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 26 of 352
`Syngenta v. UPL, PGR2023-00017
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
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`January 10, 2024
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` Q. Okay. How many times have you been to
`Washington, D.C.?
` A. This is the first time. Well, this is the
`first time for this case.
` Q. That's what I mean. So in terms of your
`thousand dollars per day while traveling, this is
`the first trip you've taken in association with --
` A. That is correct.
` Q. -- with this case?
` MR. FELDSTEIN: Let him finish the
`question, Doctor.
` Q. And that was my fault because I got a
`little tongue tied and I couldn't quite get the end
`of it out. So that was on me.
` Okay. So 75 to 80 hours, give or take,
`not including your trip here?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. How long have you been here in D.C. for
`this -- to get ready for this deposition?
` A. I arrived Sunday night and I will leave
`tomorrow morning.
` Q. Okay. The 75 to 80 hours, when did that
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`202-220-4158
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 27 of 352
`Syngenta v. UPL, PGR2023-00017
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`U.S. Patent No. 11,445,727
`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
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`January 10, 2024
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`start, do you know?
` A. I started keeping track of my time from
`the first contact with the Finnegan attorney.
` Q. Okay.
` A. That's my answer.
` Q. Your report -- your declaration I should
`say, which you've got there in front of you, has a
`signature and date on the first page, correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. And you signed this on November 8th, 2023?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. Do you recall when you first started
`working on this declaration?
` A. My best guess would have been September,
`October.
` Q. Okay.
` A. If I had my records in front of me I could
`tell you definitively.
` Q. Yeah. Ballpark's fine.
` Are you familiar with a document in this
`proceeding called an institution decision from the
`patent board?
`
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`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
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`SYNGENTA EXHIBIT 1043 - Page 28 of 352
`Syngenta v. UPL, PGR2023-00017
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`Jacobsen, Ph.D., Barry
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`January 10, 2024
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` A. No, I am not.
` Q. Do you have a sense of how this sort of
`proceeding plays out from beginning to end?
` A. Just a rough sense, yes.
` Q. Okay. Can you describe that for me?
` A. My understanding is that UPL filed a
`patent -- I'm not going to giv
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