Trials@uspto.gov
`571-272-7822
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`Paper No. 25
`Entered: October 6, 2015
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`RECORD OF ORAL HEARING
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`- - - - - -
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`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`- - - - - -
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`
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`PARROT S.A. and PARROT, INC.,
`
`Petitioner,
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`v.
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`DRONE TECHNOLOGIES, INC.,
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`Patent Owner.
`
`
`
`- - - - - - -
`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
`- - - - - - -
`
`Oral Hearing Held on Wednesday, July 1, 2015
`
`
`
`Before: HOWARD B. BLANKENSHIP, MATTHEW R.
`CLEMENTS (via video link), and CHRISTOPHER M. KAISER,
`Administrative Patent Judges.
`
`
`
`The above-entitled matter came on for hearing on Wednesday, July 1,
`2015, at 2:00 p.m., in Hearing Room B, taken at the U.S. Patent and
`Trademark Office, 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, Virginia.
`
`

`
`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
`
`APPEARANCES:
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`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
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`JAMES HOPENFELD, ESQ.
`Osha Liang LLP
`2200 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
`4th Floor
`Washington, D.C. 20037
`202-656-5097
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`TAMMY TERRY, ESQ.
`Osha Liang LLP
`Two Houston Center
`909 Fannin Street
`Suite 3500
`Houston, Texas 77010
`713-228-8600
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`JEFFERY LANGER, PH.D., ESQ.
`Osha Liang LLP
`1800 Diagonal Road
`Suite 600
`Alexandria, Virginia 22314
`571-366-1798
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`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
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`GENE TABACHNICK, ESQ.
`JAMES G. DILMORE, PH.D., ESQ.
`Beck & Thomas, P.C.
`1575 McFarland Road
`Suite 100
`Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15216-1808
`412-343-9700
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`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
`
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`P R O C E E D I N G S
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`( 2 :0 0 p .m.)
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : Go o d af ter n oon . P leas e
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`b e s eate d . Th is is th e h ear in g f or I P R2 014 - 00 730 an d 7 32 ,
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`P ar r ot S .A. v er s us Dr o n e Tech n o lo g ies .
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`Wh o do we h av e h er e f o r P etitio n e r ?
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`MR. H O P ENF EL D: Go o d af ter noo n , me mb er s of
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`th e Bo ar d . Th is is J ames Ho p en feld o f Os h a Lian g . With me
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`is Ta mmy Ter r y , als o of Os h a Lian g . No t o n th e pap er s b ut
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`als o with me is Mr . J ef fer y Lan ger o f Osh a Lian g h er e in
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`Alex an dr ia.
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : All r igh t. Can J u dg e
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`Cle men t s h ear ?
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`J UDGE CLEM E NTS : Y es , I can . Th an k y ou .
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : All r igh t. An d wh o do
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`we h av e f o r P aten t Own er ?
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`MR. T A BACH NI CK: Go o d af terno on . I 'm Gen e
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`Tab ach n ick f ro m Beck & Th o mas o n b eh alf o f P aten t Own er .
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`An d I h av e with me b ack u p co un sel, J im Dilmo r e.
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : All r igh t. Th ank y ou .
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`F r o m P aten t Own er we h av e in ea ch cas e a mo tio n
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`to ex clud e th at is p en ding .
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`MR. T A BACH NI CK: Co r r ect.
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : Ar e y ou g oing to b e
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`p r es en tin g ar gumen ts o n th at mo tio n to d ay ?
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`3
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`

`
`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
`
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`MR. T A BACH NI CK: I b eliev e s o, Yo u r Ho no r .
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : Ok ay . P etitio ner will
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`p r o ceed f irs t, and wh en ev er y ou ar e r ead y . Yo u h av e 6 0
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`min u tes . Yo u ca n r es er ve time f o r r eb uttal an d you can als o
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`r es er v e time f o r reb u ttal t o th e mo tion th at h e will b e ar g u in g .
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`MR. H O P ENF EL D: Th an k y ou , Yo u r Ho no r . I
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`wo u ld lik e to r eser v e 2 0 min u tes o f time f o r r ebu ttal o n th e
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`mer its of th e p etition s th ems elv es .
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`I d on 't kn o w wh at th e time limits ar e f o r th e
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`mo tio n , b u t to the ex ten t th at th ere ar e ti me limits to th e
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`mo tio n I will r eser v e, if I can r es e r v e ad d itio n al time f o r th at,
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`I wo u ld as well.
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : Well, y ou h av e 6 0
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`min u tes to tal.
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`MR. H O P ENF EL D: Ok ay . I will r es er v e 2 0 , a
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`min i mu m o f 2 0 . An d if I d on 't f in ish , h op e f u lly I wo n 't n eed
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`th e wh o le 4 0 min u tes of th e r es t.
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : Neith er p ar ty need s to
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`tak e th e en tir e 60 min u tes.
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`MR. H O P ENF EL D: Ok ay . Th an k y ou . Th is is a
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`cas e wh e r e I th ink th e Boar d will f ind th at th e is sues h av e
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`b een b r ief ed p r etty well on th e p ap er s . An d we wo u ld su bmit
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`to yo u that y o u wo u ld b e well s er v ed to r es o lv e all o f th e
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`is su es on th e p ap er s .
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`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
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`An d my p r imar y p u rp os e in co min g h er e tod ay ,
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`q u ite f r an k ly , is to mak e s u r e th at I 'm av ail ab le to yo u to
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`an s wer an y qu es tio ns if an y me mb er s o f the Bo ar d h as
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`q u es tions ab o ut th e mer its o f th e p etitio n .
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`I n th e ab s en ce o f q u es tions , wh at I 'm h ap p y to d o
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`if it will b e h elp fu l fo r the Bo ar d is to walk thr ou gh th e
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`ar g u men ts v ery br ief ly and jus t pro v id e an o v er all s u mmar y
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`an d jus t a h ig h - lev el v iew o f th e ar g u men ts , if th e Bo ar d
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`wo u ld f in d th at help f ul.
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : All r igh t.
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`MR. H O P ENF EL D: Ok ay . I th ink to mak e th ing s
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`a little bit eas ier h er e, wh at I 'm g o in g to do is I 'm g o ing to
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`s tar t with th e '7 48 p aten t, wh ich is th e I PR2 0 14 -00 73 2
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`p etitio n . An d jus t fo r the r eco r d s in ce we 'r e d eali n g with two
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`p etitio ns h er e, I th ink , I ho p e it's o k ay if we c an u s e th is
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`tr an s cript f or b oth p etition s .
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`I d on 't kn o w if th er e is so meth in g th at I h av e to
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`s ay to pres er v e o u r righ t to do th at ju st to mak e it
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`ad min is tr ativ ely eas ier . I s th at accep tab le?
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : I th in k we 'r e p lan n ing to
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`h av e o n e tr an s cr ip t fo r both , f iled in bo th , each f ile.
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`MR. H O P ENF EL D: Ok ay . S o let's tur n to th e '7 4 8
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`p aten t. I f yo u loo k at th e P aten t Own er 's ar g u men ts th er e ar e
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`r eally only two arg u men ts , an d es sen tially th ey h ave alr ead y
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`b een ad dr es s ed by th e Boar d .
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`5
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`

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`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
`
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`Th e f ir s t ar g u me n t is th at wh at they call th e main
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`p r io r ar t r ef er en ce, th e S p ir ov r ef er en ce, d o es n ot in h er en tly
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`d is clo s e wh at is k no wn as a co n f ig u r ation s witch , wh ich is o n e
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`o f th e ele men ts o f claim 1 o f th e '74 8 p atent.
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`Th e Bo a r d h as alr ead y r uled th at wh eth er o r no t
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`S p ir ov dis clos es a co n f igu r atio n switch is ir r elev ant to th e
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`q u es tions b ef or e th e Bo ar d at th is p o in t b ecau s e it d o es n 't
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`matter . Th e co n fig ur ation s witch is clear ly s ho wn an d th ere is
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`n o disp ute ab o u t th is in bo th th e Bath ich e an d S hko lniko v
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`r ef er en ces .
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`S o it r eally do esn 't matte r wh eth er o r n o t S p ir ov
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`in h er ently d is clo ses th e co n f ig ur atio n s witch , an d the Bo ar d
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`h as r es olv ed th at is su e. I th in k th at tak es car e o f iss u e n u mb er
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`1 .
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`I s su e n umb er 2 is an o th er is su e th at th e Bo ar d h as
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`r es o lv ed, an d th at is th at b o th Sh ko lniko v an d Bath ich e ar e
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`n on - an alo go u s art, at leas t acco r d in g to th e P aten t Own er .
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`On ce ag ain , th e Bo ar d in its d ec is ion ins titu ting rev iew f o u nd ,
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`in d eed , th at Bath ich e an d S h ko ln ik ov ar e an alo g ous ar t an d
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`th at th e P aten t Own er h ad n ot ma d e an y - - h ad n ot p r ov id ed
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`an y f acts s u gg es tin g oth erwis e.
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`We s u bmit to y o u th at th e f u rth er p ro ceed ing s
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`b ef or e the Bo ar d , th er e h a v e n o t been an y ch an g es in th at. We
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`h av en 't s een an y f acts f rom th e P aten t Own er th at wo u ld
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`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
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`s u gg es t th at eith er Bath ich e o r Shk o ln ik ov ar e n o t an alo g ous
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`ar t. S o wh at d id th ey s ub mit with r es p ect to th at is s u e?
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`Well, two th in gs . F ir st, th ey q uo te th e d ep o sitio n
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`tr an s cript o f P etitio n er 's ex p er t, Pro f es so r D'An d r ea, to th e
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`ex ten t that P r of ess o r D'An d r ea h ad n ev er hear d o f Bath ich e o r
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`S h ko ln iko v .
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`Th at's , q u ite f r ank ly , an ir r elev an t co n s id er ation .
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`I t do es n 't tell this Bo ar d an y thing as to wheth er o r n o t a
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`p er s on of o rd in ary s kill in th e ar t wo u ld fin d Bathich e o r
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`S h ko ln iko v to b e an alo g ous ar t u nder I n Re Clay in wh ich all
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`y ou n eed to b e an alo g ou s ar t is someth in g r eas o n ably p ertinen t
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`to th e pro b lem to b e s o lv ed . S o their f irs t b ig p iece o f
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`ev id en ce is irr elev an t b ecau s e it do es n 't h elp us .
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`Th e s eco n d piece o f ev id en ce th at at leas t in th eor y
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`th ey co uld r ely on ar e th eir d eclaratio ns . Th er e w er e two .
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`F irs t is a d eclar atio n f ro m Mr . S mi th wh o was th e in v en to r o f
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`o n e o f the p r ior ar t r ef er en ces th at w as cite d in th e '0 71
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`p aten t. He d o es n 't s p eak o n th e is s u e of no n - an alog ou s ar t s o
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`we c an s et th at as id e.
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`Th en we h av e the d eclar a tion o f Dr . S turg es . Dr .
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`S tur g es d o es n 't ev er ex p res s ly add r es s th e is s u e of an alo g ou s
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`ar t. He d o es n 't say an y thin g abo ut it. Th e clo s es t h e s ay s is
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`th at S hko lniko v is no t someth in g h e wo u ld u s e in h is o wn
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`r es ear ch an d h e did n 't ev en s p ecify wh at his r es earch is o r h o w
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`it wo u ld b e r elev an t to the p r o blem h er e.
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`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
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`S o th er e ar e n o new f acts f r o m th e P aten t Own er o n
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`th is is sue o f n on - an alo gou s ar t and wh at we ar e lef t with is th e
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`Bo ar d 's o r ig in al co n clu sio n . An d ju s t - - if I 'm g ild ing th e lilly
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`y ou can tell me - - b ut just to b e clear h er e, th er e s ho u ld b e n o
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`d isp ute in th is cas e th at Bath ich e an d Sh ko ln iko v are
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`an alo g ous ar t.
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`Bath ich e is a r e mo te co n tro ller with s en s ed mo tion
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`co n tro l an d th e op tio n to n o t u s e sen s ed mo tio n con tro l fo r
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`co n tro llin g r emo tely a s imu lated air cr af t. I t co u ldn 't b e
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`clo s er . An d , in fact, th e o n ly thin g Bath ich e an d S h ko ln iko v
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`lack , at leas t ac c o r din g to th e P aten t Own er , is th e f act th at
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`th e v eh icles th at th ey wou ld o s ten s ib ly co n tr ol actu ally mo v e.
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`Well, if y ou tak e th at, if y ou tak e th e lo gic o f th at
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`ar g u men t wh at they ar e r e ally s ay in g is th at, u n less y o u
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`an ticip ate, u n les s y o u anticip ate y o u ar e no t an alog ou s ar t.
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`Th e o n ly th ing mis s in g , th e o n e piece wh i ch is th e actu al
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`mo v in g v eh icle its elf in th o s e r efer en ces , if tho s e r ef er en ces
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`h ad it, th ey wo uld b e an ticip ator y ar t.
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`S o I th ink th at does it u nles s th e Bo ar d h as an y
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`q u es tions f or me ab o u t the '7 4 8 p aten t an d I wo u ld lik e to
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`mo v e o n to th e '0 7 1 , if that's o k ay .
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : P r o ceed .
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`MR. H O P ENF EL D: Ok ay . S o with th e '0 71 we
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`h ad f ou r is s u es . On e o f th e f o ur is s u es was th e s ame
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`n on - an alo go u s art is su e, an d I 'm g o ing to set th at on e a s id e
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`

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`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
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`b ecau s e we 'v e al r ead y add r es s ed th at. S o we r eall y h av e th r ee
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`is su es with r esp ect to th e '0 7 1 p aten t. An d jus t for th e r eco r d
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`th at is IP R2 0 14 -0 07 30 . Ok ay . I f y o u g ive me ju st o n e s eco nd
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`h er e.
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`Oh , I n eg lected to - - th ere is o n e h elp fu l th ing on
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`t h e is su e o f an alog ou s ar t th at I wou ld lik e to jus t po int o ut
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`b ecau s e it was n 't in th e pap er s . Th er e was n o t lo ng ag o a
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`d ecis ion f r o m th e F ed er al Cir cu it th at I thin k is v ery h elpf ul
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`o n th e iss u e o f an alo go us ar t.
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`I t is S cien tif ic Plas tic P ro du cts ver s u s Bio tag e.
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`Yo u will f ind th at at 7 6 6 F .3 d 1 355 . An d th at was a d ecis ion
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`f r o m th e F ed er al Cir cu it ap p ly in g I n Re Clay in S ep temb er o f
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`2 01 4 . So th at is a d ecis ion th at actu ally iss u ed af ter th e
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`P etitio n er f iled its p etition s in May o f 2 014 .
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`J UDGE BLAN K EN S HI P : Was it af ter the p aten t - -
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`P etitio n er r ep ly ?
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`MR. H O P ENF EL D: I t wou ld b e Sep temb e r s o
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`th eir -- y es , it wo u ld h ave b een a f ter th eir r ep ly . Well, wh ich
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`r ep ly ar e we talk in g ab ou t? No t af ter o ur rep ly . I 'm s o r ry ,
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`Yo u r Hon o r .
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : I t was b ef or e the
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`P etitio n er r ep ly ?
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`MR. H O P ENF EL D: Th e d ate o f th e P etitio n er 's
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`r ep ly was Ap r il 28 th , so , y es , it wo u ld h ave b een b ef o r e th e - -
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`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
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`ex cu s e me, d id y ou s ay P aten t Own er 's p o s ition ? I co u ld n't
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`h ear .
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : I was as k ing was it
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`p r io r , was th e d ecis ion p rio r to P etitio n er 's r ep ly in th e tr ial?
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`MR. H O P ENF EL D: Yes , it is p r ior to ou r r ep ly .
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : All r igh t.
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`MR. H O P ENF EL D: I 'm s o r ry . I ap o lo gize. Bu t I
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`d o wan t to men tio n th e decis io n . I t's in str u ctiv e. An d r eally
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`wh at wa s inv o lved th er e was th e p aten t r elated to liqu id - - I
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`mean , I th ink it is called lo w p r ess u r e liq uid ch ro mato g r aphy .
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`An d th e in v ention in p ar ticu lar r elated to a car tr idg e th at had a
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`s eal o n it.
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`An d th e p r io r ar t h ad ev er y th in g b u t th e seal. A n d
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`th e p rio r ar t was co mb in ed with o th er ar t in liter ally th e s od a
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`b o ttle ar t. An d th e is su e was is the s o d a bo ttle ar t an alo g ous
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`ar t to the liq u id ch r o mato g r ap hy ar t. No w, th ey see m lik e ,
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`wo w, th o s e th ing s ar e p retty d if fer en t, tho s e th ing s ar e p retty
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`d iff er en t f ield s .
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`Well, the F ed er al Cir cu it s aid , y es , th os e ar e
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`an alo g ous ar t, o r at leas t th ey s us tain ed the f in ding th at it was
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`b ecau s e th ey wer e b o th d ir ected to th e s ame p r o blem. An d I
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`wo u ld s ub mit to th e Bo ar d th at th at cas e s h o ws a co mb in ation
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`o f p atents th at is f ar mo r e d iff er ent th an wh at y ou s ee in this
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`cas e, an d if yo u f ind th at h elp fu l, I h op e th at will b e h elp fu l to
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`y ou .
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`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
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`S o if - - I wo u ld lik e to turn b ack ag ain to th e '0 7 1
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`p aten t. An d th e f irs t is s ue we h av e is r eally - - o n ce ag ain , all
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`o f th e iss u es we h av e with th e '0 71 p aten t in my v iew ar e
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`is su es that wer e alr ead y res o lv ed b y th e Bo ar d in its d ecis io n s
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`in stitu tin g r eview.
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`Th is was a c as e wh er e th e P aten t Own er mad e a
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`s u bs tantiv e r es p on s e to the p etition s pr io r to r eview, s o we
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`h av e a little b it mo r e s u b s tan ce th an in the p ar ticular , th is
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`p ar ticular cas e.
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : I th in k y o u u nder s tan d
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`th is , b ut th e d ecisio n to ins titu te was ju s t lik e a k ick o ff .
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`MR. H O P ENF EL D: Rig ht.
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : I t was ju st s eein g if
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`th er e is r ea s o n able lik elih oo d of s u cceed in g . S o th er e is
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`n o th in g co n clu siv e ex cep t wh eth er to pr o ceed o r no t.
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`MR. H O P ENF EL D: Th at's co r r ect. An d we ag r ee
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`th at th ere is n o thin g con clu siv e. Bu t wh at I wo u ld s u b mit to
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`th e Bo ar d is th at man y o f th es e ar gu men ts h av e alr ea d y b een
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`air ed o ut b ef o r e th e Bo ar d. An d I a m g o ing to ju st walk
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`th ro ug h th em b ec au s e we r eally only h av e th r ee with r es p ect to
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`th e '0 7 1 . Ok ay .
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`An d th e f irs t is a r eq u ir emen t o f clai m 1 to d etect
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`th e mo tio n of th e r emo te co n tro l. No w, th er e was a n is su e
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`with r esp ect to claim co n s tru ction with r esp ect to th is claim
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`ele men t p r io r to th e in stitu tio n of r ev iew.
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`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
`
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`Th e Bo a r d co ns tru ed d etectio n o f mo tio n co n sis ten t
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`with th e p aten t to mean an y ch an g e, d etectio n of chan g e in th e
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`o r ientatio n of th e r emo te co n tro ller . Th at is it. And I tho ug h t
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`wh at wa s v er y imp o r tan t in th e Bo ar d 's d ecis ion is th at th e
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`Bo ar d cited th e par ticu lar lan g u age in th e '0 71 p aten t
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`ex p lainin g ju s t ho w th e '0 71 p aten t d etects mo tio n, wh ich is to
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`liter ally d etect th e o r ien tation o f t h e r emo t e co n tr oller .
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`An d I hop e th is can b e s een o n vid eo , b ut if I am
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`th e r emo te co n troller an d I 'm f acin g , s ay , du e eas t, an d I mo v e
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`to th e nor th , th at will b e detected b ecau s e t h er e will b e a n e w
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`o r ientatio n v alu e in s tead o f wh atev er d eg rees I me as u r e to th e
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`eas t, d ep en d ing on wh at yo u r f r ame o f r ef er en ce is . Yo u
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`wo u ld s ay 9 0th if n o rth is zer o . I 'm g o ing f r o m 9 0 to zer o .
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`Th at ch a n g e will b e d etected . Th at's wh at is d is cu s sed in th e
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`p aten t.
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`S o wh at th e p aten t s ays an d ho w th e Bo ar d
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`co n s tr u ed d et ectin g mo tion is if ther e is a ch an g e in
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`o r ientatio n , th at is th e d etectio n of mo tio n. No w, we alr ea d y
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`k no w that S mith d o es th at. An d th e r eas o n we k n ow is
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`b ecau s e th e P aten t Own er h as alread y ad mitted th is . And th is
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`is s o meth ing I wan t to giv e a q u ote r igh t o u t o f the P aten t
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`Own er 's p ap er s .
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`Th is is pag e 6 o f p ap er , I b eliev e th is wou ld b e
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`p ap er n umb er 6 in th e '0 71 p aten t wh ich is th e 7 30 p etitio n .
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`An d on p ag e 6 th e P aten t Own er s ay s th e f o llo wing : "S mith is
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`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
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`limited to u sing mag n etic n o rth to d eter m i n e a r e mo te
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`co n tro ller 's o r ientatio n with r es p ect to mag n etic n o r th ."
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`S o yo u hav e an a d mis s ion r igh t ther e th at S mith
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`d eter min es th e o rien tation. Un d er th e Bo ar d 's clai m
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`co n s tr u ction , th at is th e d etectio n o f mo tion b ecau s e if I 'm
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`o r iented th is way an d I chan g e to th is way , th at mo tio n will b e
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`d etected b ecau s e a n ew o r ien tation v alu e will b e d etected .
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`P aten t Own er d oes n o t con tes t th e Bo ar d 's clai m
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`co n s tr u ction . Th e P aten t Own er a g r ees th at th at con s tr u ction
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`is th e cor r ect b road es t r eas o n able co n s tr u ction .
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`S o wh at d o es th e P aten t Own er d o? Well, th e
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`P aten t Own er s ays th at in o r d er to d etect a ch an g e in
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`o r ientatio n , it is n o t eno ug h to d eter min e s imp ly that th e
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`o r ientatio n h as ch an g ed . Yo u h ave to actu ally d eter min e th e
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`d eg r ee to wh ich o r ientatio n h as ch an g ed . Yo u actu ally h av e to
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`k no w wh at th e p rev io us or ien tation was , w h at th e cu r r en t
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`o r ientatio n is , an d y ou h av e to b e ab le to mak e s o me s o r t o f
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`s u btr actio n or some s o r t o f calcu latio n to s h o w what is th e
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`d eg r ee of ch an g e.
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`No w, th er e is ab so lutel y no s up po rt in th e claim
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`lan g u ag e f o r th is . Bu t mo r e imp o r tan tly , th er e is no s up po rt in
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`th e '0 7 1 p aten t for th is k in d of a read in g of th e claim. I f yo u
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`as th e Bo ar d were to acc e p t th e P aten t Own er 's cla im
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`co n s tr u ction , y ou wo u ld be r ead in g n ot on ly th e pr ef er r ed
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`e mb o d imen t b u t ev er y emb o d imen t o f the '0 7 1 p aten t ou t o f
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`
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`13
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`

`
`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
`
`th e claims b ec a u s e wh at is s ho wn , th er e is on ly on e way th at
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`mo tio n is d etected in th e '0 71 p aten t sp ecif icatio n .
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`An d th at is ex actly ex plain ed in the lan g u ag e
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`q uo ted by th e Boar d in it s d ecis ion , wh ich is to d etect th e
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`o r ientatio n . I t is an o r ientation v alu e. Do es th e p rev io us
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`o r ientatio n v alu e matter ? I t d o esn't matter o n e b it f o r th e
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`co n tro llin g of th e mo tion . An d I ch allen g e an y o n e to f in d
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`an y wh ere in th e s p ecif ication o f a p aten t, o f th e '0 7 1 p atent,
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`an y teac h ing th at th e p r evio us or ien tatio n has an y bear in g on
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`th e co n tro llin g o f mo v eme n t.
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`S o wh at we h av e h er e f r om th e P aten t Own er is
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`es s en tially a r einter p r etatio n o f the Bo ar d 's claim c o n stru ctio n
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`to do th e v er y th in g th at th e Bo ar d r ejected wh en it r ejected
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`th e o rig in al claim co n s tru ction that th e P aten t Own er o ff ered
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`in th e firs t p lace.
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`An y qu es tio n s abo u t d etectio n o f mo tio n ?
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`J UDGE BLAN K ENS HI P : No .
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`MR. H O P ENF EL D: Ok ay . I wo u ld lik e to mo v e
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`n o w to th e n ex t limitatio n wh ich can b e f o un d in clai m 4 o f
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`th e '0 7 1 p aten t, an d th at is th e d iff er en ce o f mo tion .
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`Wh at y ou ar e g o in g to s ee h er e is es s en tially , if
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`y ou th ink ab o ut it, it is r eally th e s ame ar g u men t th at th e
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`P aten t Own er ma k es with r es p ect to d etectin g mo tio n , wi th a
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`s lig h t d if f er en t -- with a s lig h t lin gu istic twis t.
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`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
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`No w, th is was a s itu atio n wh er e th e Bo ar d ca me u p
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`with its o wn claim co n s tru ction , an d th er e is no d isag r ee me n t
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`h er e b y th e p ar ties th at the Bo ar d 's claim c o n stru ctio n was
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`co r r ect. Th e Bo a r d co ns t ru ed d if f er en ce o f mo tio n in claim 4
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`to me an r elativ e mo tio n . An d th at's clear ly - - th at is a co r rect
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`clai m co n s tr u ction .
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`Wh en the r e mo te co n tro ller mo v es - - an d th is is
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`tr u e fo r b o th th e '0 7 1 p aten t an d fo r S mith - - wh en th er e is a
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`mo v e me n t, th at mo v e m e n t will be d etecte d . I t will h av e an
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`ef f ect o f cau s in g a ch an g e in th e s ig n al th at is s en t to th e
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`r emo te c o n tr olled v eh icle.
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`By th e way , in the '0 7 1 p aten t th at s ign al is called
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`a tar g et mo tio n sig n al. In th e S mith p atent it is called a
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`d ir ectio n co n t ro l s ign al. Bu t th ey ar e th e s ame th in g . Th ey
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`b as ically ar e h er e is th e mag n etis m v alu e that I 'm te lling you .
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`Th is is wh er e y o u n eed to go .
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`S o if I mo v e, f or ex a mp le, f r o m o ne p lace t o
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`an o th er I'm g o in g to s en d a n ew s ig n al to my r e mo tely
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`co n tro lled v eh icle an d it will mo v e. Th at is r elative mo tio n.
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`S o wh at d o es th e P aten t Own er ar gu e to try to r einter p r et this
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`clai m co n s tr u ction as well?
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`Well, I 'm n o t sur e I r eally u nd er stan d th e
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`ar g u men ts th ey mak e b u t I 'm g o in g to do my b es t. I 'm g o in g
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`to g iv e th em th e b es t sh o t th at I can . Th e f ir s t arg umen t
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`ap p ear s to b e th at th e s ignal th at is s en t in S mith is a r ef er en ce
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`15
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`

`
`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
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`v alu e o n an ab s o lu te f r ame o f r ef er en ce, th at is , th e o r ientation
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`is f ro m mag n etic n o rth . Mag n etic n o r th is an ab so lute f r ame
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`o f r ef er en c e. An d s o wh atev er s ign al I 'm s en d ing is in th at
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`ab s o lu te f r ame o f r ef er en ce.
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`Th at's c o r r ect. It is als o ex actly wh at th e p aten t
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`d o es . Th e p aten t als o s en d s its sig n al in an ab s o lu te f r ame o f
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`r ef er en ce. I t h as to , b ecau s e if our f r ames o f r ef er en ce w er e
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`r elativ e, we wo u ld b e in th e wo r ld o f Ein stein , n one o f th ese
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`th in gs wo u ld ev en r emo te ly op er ate an y th in g lik e th e p aten ts
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`talk ab ou t an d we wo u ldn 't ev en b e talk ing ab o ut an y k in d o f
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`r eal s y s te m h er e to d ay .
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`We k n ow th at in b o th cas es we 'r e d ealin g w ith an
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`ab s o lu te f r ame o f r ef er en ce. Bu t b ecau s e w e h av e a n ab s olute
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`f r ame o f r ef er en ce d o es no t me an th at we d on 't h av e r elativ e
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`mo tio n . Th e f r ame o f r ef er en ce an d mo tio n ar e d if f er en t
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`th in gs . Ok ay . S o th e f act th at we h av e an ab s o lu te f r ame o f
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`r ef er en ce, to th e ex ten t that's th eir ar g u me n t, we ca n s et th at
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`as id e.
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`S o th ey mak e a s eco n d arg u men t an d th e seco n d
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`ar g u men t is , well, in S mith th e r emo te co n tro ller d o es n 't sen d
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`its actu al o r ien tation to th e r emo t ely co n tro lled v eh icle.
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`I n stead it s en ds a d i r ection co n tr ol s ign al th at in clud es , in
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`ad d ition to th at in f or matio n , an ad d ition al p iece w h ich is th e
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`an g le that th e joy s tick h as .
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`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
`
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`S o if this is n 't clear to the Bo ar d , I 'm g o ing to tr y
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`to ex plain it an d h op ef u lly th is will wo rk . S o let's s ay I 'm th e
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`r emo te c o n tr oller an d I 'm f acin g du e n o rth . Ok ay ? Th at's z er o
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`d eg r ees . I f I 'm h o lding th e jo ys tick an d it is als o d u e n or th ,
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`I 'm s till at zer o d eg r ees .
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`Bu t if I tak e my jo y stick an d I mo ve it to the lef t,
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`th at's - - well, o ne way w o u ld b e 2 70 d eg rees d e p en d in g o n
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`wh at u n its yo u are g o ing to u s e. Yo u can als o d o this in
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`an g les an d , yo u k no w, y o u co uld u s e r ad ian s , wh atev er y ou
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`wan t to d o with an d h av e f u n with y ou r math .
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`Th e p o int is , it is tr u e th at wh at will h app en in
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`S mith is th at we will ad d u p th o s e two an gles an d th at
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`b eco mes o u r d ir ectio n con tro l sign al. An d d o es th at mean
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`s o meh o w th at we d o n 't hav e r elativ e mo tio n ? Of co u r s e it
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`d o es n 't. An d th er e is two way s that I can illus tr ate th is f or
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`y ou .
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`Th e f ir s t is loo k at th e '0 7 1 p atent its elf . T h e '0 7 1
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`p aten t als o h as an emb o d imen t in wh ich yo u wou ld u s e th e
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`jo ys tick in co mb in ation with th e sen s ed mo tio n con tro l. All
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`r igh t? So it h as to b e in th er e. I t h as to b e with in th e s co p e o f
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`th e claims b ec a u s e o th er wis e their e mb o d imen ts d on 't ma k e
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`an y s en se.
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`Bu t let's s ay , s ay , o h , th is is a d iffer en t
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`e mb o d imen t. We'r e n o t g o in g to co n sider th at ar g u men t.
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`Ok ay . Ag ain , I th ink th at ar g u me n t sh ou ld p ut this to r est b u t
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`Case IPR2014-00730 (Patent 7,584,071)
`Case IPR2014-00732 (Patent 8,106,748)
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`let's s ay y ou d on 't d eg r ee with me. Let me s h o w you h o w
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`S mith n on eth eless d o es ex actly wh at th ey s ay . Th at is , it d o es
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`g iv e in for matio n o f th e r emo te co n tro ller 's o rien tation b y
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`its elf .
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`Ho w d o es it do that? V er y s imp le. Yo u r ecall th at
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`wh at h app en s in S mith to g et o ur d ir ectio n co n tro l s ign al is
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`th at we'r e g o ing to ad d two s ig n als . We 'r e g o in g to ad d th e
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`o r ientatio n an gle th at is detected to th e ang le o f the jo y s tick .
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`Well, ther e is an eas y s o lu tio n to th at pr oblem,
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`r igh t? Wh at if I p ut my jo ys tick d u e n or th o n th e - - no rth in
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`ter ms - - n o t n or th in terms o f d ir ectio n ally . I sh o u ld s ay at th e
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`to p . I mis sp ok e. I ap o lo gize.
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`I p ut my jo ys tick at th e top . Th at mean s th at th e
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`an g le that will be ad d ed is zer o . S o no w let's s ay I 'm h o ld in g
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`my jo y s tick at the to p , o kay , with my th u mb an d I am n o t
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`g o in g to mo v e it, an d I ju st mo v e a r o un d . Wh at is th e s ign al
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`th at is go ing to be s en t b y th at r emo te co n tro ller ? I t is g oing
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`to b e exactly th e o r ientatio n o f the r e mo te co n tro ller . Ex ac tly
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`th e o pp os ite o f wh at P aten t Own er ar g u ed .
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`S o th er e wh at y ou s ee is th at S mith is dis clo sing
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`ex ac tly , ex actly th e s ame ty p e of mo tio n detectio n an d th e
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`s ame ty p e o f d if fer en ce - - an d I will g et to th