Apple v. VirnetX, IPR2015-00866, Petitioner Apple Inc. - Exhibit 1063, Cover
`
`

`
`Sandy Ginoza
`February 8, 2013
`
`Page 1
`
` UNITED STATES INTERNATIONAL TRADE COMMISSION
`
` WASHINGTON, D.C.
`
`In the Matter of )
` )
`CERTAIN DEVICES WITH )
`SECURE COMMUNICATION ) Investigation No. 337-TA-858
`CAPABILITIES, COMPONENTS )
`THEREOF, AND PRODUCTS )
`CONTAINING THE SAME )
`__________________________ )
`
` DEPOSITION OF INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE
`
` THROUGH ITS DESIGNATED REPRESENTATIVE, SANDY GINOZA
`
` FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 8, 2013
`
` LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA
`
` Reported By:
`
` Lindsay Pinkham, CSR 3716, CCRR
`
`Stratos Legal Services
`800-971-1127
`
`b5be5f06-02c3-4c47-bd9f-8685fe29ee80
`
`Apple v. VirnetX, IPR2015-00866, Petitioner Apple Inc. - Exhibit 1063, p. 1
`
`

`
`Sandy Ginoza
`February 8, 2013
`
`Page 2
`
`Page 4
`
`1 I N D E X
`2
`
` Examination Page
`
` By Ms. Peschel 8
`
` By Ms. Greskowiak 50
`
` RESPONDENT'S EXHIBITS
`
` No. 1 Subpoena Ad Testificandum 14
`
` No. 2 Subpoena Duces Tecum 15
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5678
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
` No. 3 Document entitled "Declaration of the 16
`12 RFC Publisher for the Internet
` Engineering Task Force, an Organized
`13 Activity of the Internet Society"
`14 No. 4 Document entitled "The Tao of IETF: 18
` A Novice's Guide to the Internet
`15 Engineering Task Force"
`16 No. 5 RFC 1034, 337-TA-858-IETF00022 thru 20
` 00073
`
`17
`
` No. 6 RFC 1035, 337-TA-858-IETF00074 thru 22
`18 00125
`19
`
` No. 7 RFC 1123, 337-TA-858-IETF00241 thru 23
`20 00337
`21 No. 8 RFC 1631, 337-TA-858-IETF00345 thru 25
` 00354
`
`22
`
` No. 9 RFC 1889, 337-TA-858-IETF00541 thru 27
`23 00611
`24 No. 10 RFC 2052, 337-TA-858-IETF00715 thru 29
` 00724
`
`25
`
`Page 3
`
`Page 5
`
`1 Deposition of INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE,
`2 THROUGH ITS DESIGNATED REPRESENTATIVE SANDY GINOZA,
`3 taken on behalf of Respondent APPLE INC., commencing at
`4 8:57 a.m., Friday, February 8, 2013, at 750 North Nash
`5 Street, El Segundo, California 90245, before LINDSAY
`6 PINKHAM, CSR 3716, CCRR.
`
`78
`
` APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
`9 For Complainant VIRNETX, INC.:
`10 MCKOOL SMITH P.C.
` BY: STACIE GRESKOWIAK, ESQ.
`11 1999 K Street, N.W.
` Suite 600
`12 Washington, D.C. 20006
` (202) 370-8300
`13 sgreskowiak@mckoolsmith.com
` (Via Speakerphone)
`
`14
`15 For Complainant SCIENCE APPLICATIONS INTERNATIONAL
` CORPORATION:
`
`16
`
` URRABAZO LAW, P.C.
`17 BY: LARA PETREDIS, ESQ.
` 2029 Century Park East
`18 14th Floor
` Los Angeles, California 90067
`19 (310) 388-9099
` lpetredis@ulawpc.com
`
`20
`21 For RESPONDENT APPLE INC.:
`22 WILLIAMS, MORGAN & AMERSON, P.C.
` BY: LEISA TALBERT PESCHEL, PH.D., ESQ.
`23 10333 Richmond
` Suite 1100
`24 Houston, Texas 77042
` (713) 934-4096
`25 lpeschel@wmalaw.com
`
`1 INDEX, CONTINUED:
`2
`
` No. 11 RFC 2065, 337-TA-858-IETF00725 thru 30
`3 00763
`4 No. 12 RFC 2131, 337-TA-858-IETF00764 thru 32
` 00806
`
`5
`
` No. 13 RFC 2167, 337-TA-858-IETF02137 thru 34
`6 02196
`7 No. 14 RFC 2230, 337-TA-858-IETF00880 thru 36
` 00890
`
`8
`
` No. 15 RFC 2246, 337-TA-858-IETF00891 thru 37
`9 00965
`10 No. 16 RFC 2401, 337-TA-858-IETF01122 thru 3
` 01183
`
`11
`
` No. 17 RFC 2535, 337-TA-858-IETF01574 thru 40
`12 01617
`13 No. 18 RFC 2459, 337-TA-858-IETF01485 thru 42
` 01557
`
`14
`
` No. 19 RFC 2543, 337-TA-858-IETF01647 thru 45
`15 01789
`16 No. 20 RFC 882, 337-TA-858-IETF02034 thru 46
` 02063
`
`17
`
` No. 21 RFC 883, 337-TA-858-IETF02064 thru 48
`18 02136
`19
`20 INFORMATION REQUESTED
`21 (None)
`22
`23 QUESTIONS WITNESS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER
`24 (None)
`25
`
`1 APPEARANCES, CONTINUED:
`2
`
` For the Deponent INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE:
`
`3
`
` THOMPSON HINE LLP
`4 BY: MATTHEW D. RIDINGS, ESQ.
` 3900 Key Center
`5 127 Public Square
` Cleveland, Ohio 44114
`6 (216) 566-5561
` matt.ridings@thompsonhine.com
`
`78
`
` Also Present:
`9 PHIL MAZO, VIDEOGRAPHER
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Stratos Legal Services
`800-971-1127
`
`2 (Pages 2 to 5)
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`b5be5f06-02c3-4c47-bd9f-8685fe29ee80
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`Apple v. VirnetX, IPR2015-00866, Petitioner Apple Inc. - Exhibit 1063, p. 2
`
`

`
`Sandy Ginoza
`February 8, 2013
`
`Page 8
`
`1 EXAMINATION
`2 BY MS. PESCHEL:
`3 Q Ms. Ginoza, have you ever had your deposition
`4 taken before?
`5 A No.
`6 MS. GRESKOWIAK: I'm sorry. Could you speak
`7 up? It's hard to hear.
`8 MS. PESCHEL: Sure.
`9 Q Have you ever had your deposition taken before?
`10 A No.
`11 Q So in the beginning, I'm just going to go
`12 through a series of questions to kind of get us on the
`13 same page about the deposition.
`14 A Okay.
`15 Q You understand that the court reporter's here
`16 to take down what you say?
`17 A Yes.
`18 Q And that any answers that you give need to be
`19 spoken out loud rather than a nod?
`20 A Okay.
`21 Q So that she can take that down?
`22 A Yes.
`23 Q I'm going to try my best not to talk over you,
`24 and I would ask you to agree not to do the same.
`25 A Okay.
`
`Page 6
`1 EL SEGUNDO, CALIFORNIA; FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 8, 2013
`2 8:57 A.M.
`
`3 4
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are on the record at 8:57
`5 a.m. This is the videotaped deposition of Sandy Ginoza,
`6 representing the Internet Engineering Task Force in the
`7 matter of Certain Devices With Security Communication
`8 Capabilities, Components Thereof, and Products
`9 Containing the Same, in Investigation No. 337-TA-858.
`10 This deposition is being held at Hyatt Place, 750
`11 North Nash Street, El Segundo, California, 90245, on
`12 February 8, 2013.
`13 My name is Phil Mazo, and I am the
`14 videographer. I am present on behalf of Stratos Legal.
`15 The court reporter is Lindsay Pinkham, also present on
`16 behalf of the Stratos Legal.
`17 Counsel will now state their appearances and
`18 firm affiliation for the record.
`19 MS. PESCHEL: Leisa Talbert Peschel, Williams,
`20 Morgan & Amerson, on behalf of Apple Inc.
`21 MS. PETREDIS: Lara Petredis, Urrabazo Law,
`22 P.C., on behalf of SAIC.
`23 MR. RIDINGS: Matt Ridings from Thompson Hine
`24 on behalf of IETF.
`25 And I'd also like to note before we get started
`
`Page 7
`
`Page 9
`
`1 for the record that about an hour ago I received a
`2 number of exhibits from counsel for VirnetX, including
`3 some exhibits that IETF has not produced in respond to
`4 the subpoena.
`5 I have not had a chance to review these
`6 exhibits, the deponent has not had a chance to review
`7 these exhibits, and frankly, as a matter of professional
`8 courtesy, I really don't appreciate receiving these an
`9 hour before the deposition. I don't think it's
`10 appropriate. And we'll deal with those when we get
`11 there. But I just want to note that for the record.
`12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Counsel on the phone?
`13 MS. GRESKOWIAK: This is Stacie Greskowiak on
`14 behalf of complainant VirnetX, Inc.
`15 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the court reporter
`16 please swear in the witness.
`17
`18 INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE, THROUGH
`19 ITS DESIGNATED REPRESENTATIVE, SANDY GINOZA,
`20 having been first duly sworn,
`21 was examined and testified as follows:
`22
`23 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We may proceed.
`24 / / /
`25 / / /
`
`1 Q I try to ask very clear questions, but
`2 sometimes I don't succeed. Will you agree to let me
`3 know if you don't understand what I'm asking?
`4 A Yes.
`5 Q Will you also agree to let me know if the
`6 answer you're giving is a guess or an estimate?
`7 A Yes.
`8 Q And can I assume that if you don't qualify your
`9 answer as a guess or an estimate, that it is not a guess
`10 or an estimate?
`11 A Yes.
`12 Q Will you agree to let me know if later in the
`13 deposition you need to change an answer you gave
`14 previously, if you think of something additional?
`15 A Sure.
`16 Q About every hour we'll probably take a short
`17 break. If for any reason you need a break sooner than
`18 that, will you just let me know?
`19 A Sure.
`20 Q And are you feeling okay today?
`21 A Yes.
`22 Q There's nothing physically that would prevent
`23 you from giving truthful and accurate testimony?
`24 A No.
`25 Q And you're not on any medication that would
`
`Stratos Legal Services
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`Apple v. VirnetX, IPR2015-00866, Petitioner Apple Inc. - Exhibit 1063, p. 3
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`

`
`Sandy Ginoza
`February 8, 2013
`
`Page 10
`1 prevent you from giving truthful or accurate testimony?
`2 A No.
`3 Q Do you have any questions so far?
`4 A No.
`5 Q And you understand that you're here today
`6 testifying on behalf of the Internet Engineering Task
`7 Force?
`8 A Yes.
`9 Q And that your answers are given on behalf of
`10 the IETF?
`11 A Yes.
`12 Q And you understand when I refer to "IETF," that
`13 I'm referring to the Internet Engineering Task Force?
`14 A Yes.
`15 Q If you need to give an answer on a personal
`16 basis, please qualify your answer as such.
`17 A Okay.
`18 Q And you understand that if I ask a question,
`19 I'm really asking a question to the IETF and not to you
`20 personally, unless I specifically address it to you
`21 personally.
`22 A Okay.
`23 Q Now, I do want to talk a little bit with you
`24 about your personal background and history. What is
`25 your current relationship with the IETF?
`
`Page 11
`1 A I am responsible -- I'm the RFC Director, so
`2 the RFC Publication Director, and so we publish the IETF
`3 documents that come out as RFCs.
`4 Q And how long have you been involved in the
`5 IETF?
`6 A Thirteen-ish years.
`7 Q And what was your position when you started
`8 with the IETF?
`9 A Similar to what I am doing now, but I probably
`10 started as a project assistant.
`11 Q Okay. So what would have been your
`12 responsibilities at that time?
`13 A The documents that were approved for
`14 publication, it would be to enter them into a queue,
`15 track them through the process, format them, edit the
`16 documents, interact with the authors to make sure that
`17 the documents say what they wanted to say, and then
`18 publish the documents on the website.
`19 Q Okay. And have you been publishing the
`20 documents, the RFC documents, for that whole time
`21 period, the 13 years?
`22 A Yes.
`23 Q What was your first position with the IETF?
`24 A Well, I really worked for ISI, which is part of
`25 USC, but the contract included receiving documents from
`
`Page 12
`
`1 the IETF. But I was a project assistant.
`2 Q And what was your next position?
`3 A I believe it was a -- weird titles --
`4 administrative assistant to the senior editor after
`5 that, and I left that, ISI, as senior editor.
`6 Q And when did you leave ISI?
`7 A January of 2010.
`8 Q And what happened in January of 2010?
`9 A The contract to provide the RFC Editor services
`10 was transferred over to AMS, and...
`11 Q Did you go with --
`12 A Yes, I did.
`13 Q You went with the functionality. So what are
`14 the current responsibilities that you have?
`15 A It's very similar to what I was doing
`16 previously. It's tracking the documents through the
`17 publication process once they've been approved for
`18 publication.
`19 Q And does that involve maintaining any of the
`20 records?
`21 A Yes.
`22 Q What functions would you -- do you perform for
`23 maintaining the records?
`24 A So once -- I don't personally input the initial
`25 information into our database, but one of our staff
`Page 13
`1 people does. And we track the documents, make sure they
`2 get edited, interact with the authors, get author
`3 approval to publish the documents, and then when the
`4 authors sign off on it, I would then go input the
`5 correct -- any corrected data into the database, update
`6 the indexes, place the document online, and send out an
`7 announcement that the document is available.
`8 Q When is the document considered published by
`9 the IETF?
`10 A The IETF considers it published on the date the
`11 announcement is sent. It's possible that it may be in a
`12 public repository a day or two before that, but it's
`13 considered when the announcement is sent, because that's
`14 when people know it's there.
`15 Q And who has access to the repository?
`16 A Everyone. Anyone who has access to the
`17 Internet.
`18 Q So a member of the public could go on the
`19 Internet and search for a particular RFC and be able to
`20 see that?
`21 A Yes.
`22 Q Do you know how far back the records go?
`23 A Records for?
`24 Q The RFCs.
`25 A The records that are online?
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`Apple v. VirnetX, IPR2015-00866, Petitioner Apple Inc. - Exhibit 1063, p. 4
`
`

`
`Sandy Ginoza
`February 8, 2013
`
`Page 14
`
`1 Q Uh-huh.
`2 A All of the RFCs -- all of the available RFCs
`3 are online. They don't change once they're published,
`4 so...
`5 Q Okay. What does RFC stand for?
`6 A "Request for comments."
`7 Q What did you do to prepare for today's
`8 deposition?
`9 A Basically was preparing to reply to the
`10 subpoena. So reviewed the subpoena, had talked to my
`11 lawyer about it a little bit, reviewed the documents,
`12 and looked at the database to see, make sure that the
`13 dates listed were the dates that I believe they were
`14 actually published.
`15 (Exhibit 1 was marked for
`16 identification.)
`17 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: I've just handed you a
`18 document that's titled "Subpoena Ad Testificandum." Did
`19 you review this document in preparing for the deposition
`20 today?
`21 MS. GRESKOWIAK: I'm sorry. Could you speak up
`22 and identify the document by the Bates numbers? Thank
`23 you.
`24 MS. PESCHEL: This is the subpoena to the IETF.
`25 MS. GRESKOWIAK: Thank you.
`
`Page 15
`1 THE WITNESS: (Examining document) Yes, I
`2 believe so.
`3 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: Would you turn to page 4. Did
`4 you review the deposition topics listed on page 4?
`5 A Yes.
`6 Q Are you prepared to testify on those topics
`7 today?
`8 A Yes, except I'm not an expert on the process
`9 for or the procedures for how documents get posted on
`10 the IETF website or the tools of the IETF website. I'm
`11 responsible for posting them on the RFC Editor site.
`12 Q Okay. Do you know generally how they get
`13 transitioned from the RFC Editor site to the IETF
`14 website?
`15 A I could make a guess, but I don't know the
`16 technical -- I mean, I believe I know, but I don't know
`17 the technical back side of it.
`18 Q Why don't you just give us your guess of what
`19 happens.
`20 A I believe we put them on the website, an
`21 announcement is made, and the IETF website automatically
`22 picks up the documents.
`23 (Exhibit 2 was marked for
`24 identification.)
`25 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: You're being handed as Exhibit
`
`Page 16
`1 2 the subpoena duces tecum. This is the subpoena for
`2 documents. Did you review this subpoena?
`3 A Yes.
`4 Q Did the IETF produce documents pursuant to the
`5 subpoena? I believe that the topics are listed in the
`6 exhibit to the prior --
`7 A This one?
`8 Q Yeah.
`9 A So these are all the same. Yes, we did.
`10 Q Who collected those documents?
`11 A I did.
`12 Q And how did you do that?
`13 A I made copies of the documents from the RFC
`14 Editor website.
`15 (Exhibit 3 was marked for
`16 identification.)
`17 MS. GRESKOWIAK: I'm very sorry to interrupt.
`18 It might be helpful to move the phone closer to the
`19 witness. It's getting quiet. Thank you.
`20 MS. PESCHEL: Okay.
`21 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: You're being handed as
`22 Exhibit 3 your declaration in this investigation. Do
`23 you recognize this document?
`24 A Yes.
`25 Q And if you turn to the last page, is that your
`Page 17
`
`1 signature on the document?
`2 A Yes.
`3 Q Do you stand behind the truth and accuracy of
`4 this declaration?
`5 A Yes.
`6 Q Do you have anything that you need to change in
`7 the declaration?
`8 A Not that I know of.
`9 Q If you look on paragraph 5, it says:
`10 "I make this Declaration based on my
`11 personal knowledge and information
`12 contained in the business records of the
`13 RFC Editor as they are currently housed
`14 at AMS or confirmation with other
`15 responsible RFC Editor personnel with
`16 such knowledge."
`17 Whom, if anyone, did you confirm such knowledge
`18 with?
`19 A Legal.
`20 Q The next sentence says:
`21 "If called as a witness in this
`22 Investigation, I could and would testify
`23 to the facts as stated in this
`24 Declaration."
`25 Does that remain to be true?
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`Apple v. VirnetX, IPR2015-00866, Petitioner Apple Inc. - Exhibit 1063, p. 5
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`

`
`Sandy Ginoza
`February 8, 2013
`
`Page 18
`
`1 A Yes.
`2 Q Do you now testify that the facts stated in
`3 this declaration are truthful?
`4 A Yes.
`5 Q And accurate?
`6 A Yes.
`7 (Exhibit 4 was marked for
`8 identification.)
`9 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: You've just been handed
`10 Exhibit 4, which is titled "The Tao of IETF: A Novice's
`11 Guide to the Internet Engineering Task Force." Do you
`12 recognize this document?
`13 MR. RIDINGS: And at this point I'll just
`14 object and say the witness is here to authenticate the
`15 documents that she produced in response to the subpoena,
`16 and this is not a document produced in response to the
`17 subpoena. And if she's able to testify, she's able to
`18 testify; but this is outside the scope of the deposition
`19 notice.
`20 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: Have you seen this document
`21 before?
`22 A Yes.
`23 Q Do you believe it's an accurate explanation of
`24 how the RFC process works?
`25 MR. RIDINGS: If you know.
`
`Page 19
`
`1 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: If you know.
`2 A I actually don't know. I haven't read this in
`3 quite some time.
`4 Q Okay. If you'll turn to section 2. It
`5 describes a little bit about the IETF process. And
`6 rather than focusing on the documents, it's just there
`7 for your reference if you need it.
`8 A Okay.
`9 Q Who can register for an IETF meeting? Do you
`10 know?
`11 A I think I know, but I'm not an IETF expert.
`12 I'm an expert in the production of the RFCs.
`13 Q Okay. What is your understanding?
`14 A My understanding is that anyone could register
`15 to attend an IETF meeting.
`16 Q I believe you stated this previously, but once
`17 an RFC is published, are there any changes?
`18 A No, they're not changed.
`19 Q Has that been true throughout the history of
`20 the publication of the RFCs?
`21 A There was -- I was not present during this
`22 time, but my understanding is there was a platform
`23 transition and some of the initial RFCs were lost in the
`24 electronic format, and there was an attempt to reproduce
`25 those documents and put those online. So I could not
`
`Page 20
`1 guarantee that those are identical to what the original
`2 said. But it's what we have on our website.
`3 Q And what you have on your website, do you know
`4 how long that's been maintained?
`5 A Those documents in particular?
`6 Q Uh-huh.
`7 A I don't. They're all different. It was a
`8 volunteer effort, so people did certain documents when
`9 they had a chance to do them. And I wouldn't be able to
`10 tell you exactly when those documents were available.
`11 Q Do you have any responsibility with respect to
`12 Internet drafts?
`13 A No.
`14 Q Do you have an understanding of the difference
`15 between Internet drafts and RFCs?
`16 A Yes.
`17 Q And what is that?
`18 A Internet drafts are working documents. They're
`19 meant to expire. And RFCs are permanent archival
`20 publication series.
`21 (Exhibit 5 was marked for
`22 identification)
`23 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: You've just been handed a
`24 document that the court reporter has marked Exhibit 5.
`25 The Bates number is 337-TA-858-IETF00022, and the
`Page 21
`
`1 document goes through 73. Is that correct?
`2 MS. GRESKOWIAK: Got it. Thanks.
`3 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: Did the IETF produce this in
`4 response to the subpoena?
`5 A Yes.
`6 Q And where did you locate RFC 1034?
`7 A On the RFC Editor website.
`8 Q And how did you do that?
`9 A I went to the RFC Editor website and searched
`10 using their search engine for RFC 1034 and made a copy
`11 of it.
`12 Q Does anyone have access to the RFC Editor
`13 search site?
`14 A Everyone has access.
`15 Q And is this document here a true and correct
`16 copy of the RFC 1034 that's present in the business
`17 records of IETF?
`18 A I believe so.
`19 Q Was it made at or near the time of the
`20 occurrence of the matters that are set forth in there?
`21 A Yes.
`22 Q By a person with knowledge of those matters?
`23 A Yes.
`24 Q Kept in the course of regularly conducted
`25 activity?
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`Apple v. VirnetX, IPR2015-00866, Petitioner Apple Inc. - Exhibit 1063, p. 6
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`

`
`Sandy Ginoza
`February 8, 2013
`
`Page 22
`
`Page 24
`
`1 A Yes.
`2 Q Made by the regularly conducted activity as a
`3 regular practice?
`4 A Yes.
`5 Q Was RFC 1034 publicly available as of the date
`6 listed on its face?
`7 A As far as I know, yes.
`8 Q And what was that date?
`9 A November 1987.
`10 (Exhibit 6 was marked for
`11 identification.)
`12 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: The court reporter's handing
`13 you what's been marked as Exhibit 6, Bates labeled
`14 337-TA-858-IETF00074, and it goes through 125. Is that
`15 correct?
`16 A Yes.
`17 Q And this is RFC 1035?
`18 A Yes.
`19 Q Did IETF produce this in response to the
`20 subpoena?
`21 A Yes.
`22 Q Where did you locate this document?
`23 A On the RFC Editor website.
`24 Q And how did you do that?
`25 A I went to the RFC Editor website, used the
`Page 23
`
`1 search engine, and made a copy of RFC 1035.
`2 Q Is the document produced here as RFC 1035 a
`3 true and correct copy of the business record that's
`4 contained in the IETF files?
`5 A Yes.
`6 Q Does it constitute a record of regularly
`7 conducted business activity?
`8 A Yes.
`9 Q Was it made at or near the time of the
`10 occurrence of the matters set forth?
`11 A Yes.
`12 Q By a person with knowledge of those matters?
`13 A Yes.
`14 Q It's been kept in the course of regularly
`15 conducted activity?
`16 A Yes.
`17 Q Made by the regularly conducted activity as a
`18 regular practice?
`19 A Yes.
`20 Q Was RFC 1035 publicly available as of the date
`21 listed on its face?
`22 A Yes, I believe so.
`23 Q What date was RFC 1035 made publicly available?
`24 A November 1987.
`25 (Exhibit 7 was marked for
`
`1 identification.)
`2 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: The court reporter has just
`3 handed you Exhibit 7, which is titled "Request for
`4 Documents: 1123," with the Bates number
`5 337-TA-858-IETF00241 through 337. Is that correct?
`6 A Yes.
`7 Q Was this produced by the IETF in response to
`8 the subpoena?
`9 A Yes.
`10 Q Where did you locate this document?
`11 A On the RFC Editor website.
`12 Q How do you locate it?
`13 A I went to the RFC Editor website, searched for
`14 RFC 1123, and made a copy of the file.
`15 Q Is this copy of RFC 1123 a true and correct
`16 copy of the business record contained in the IETF files?
`17 A Yes.
`18 Q Does RFC 1123 constitute a record of regularly
`19 conducted business activity?
`20 A Yes.
`21 Q Was it made at or near the time of the
`22 occurrence of the matters set forth?
`23 A Yes.
`24 Q By a person with knowledge of those matters?
`25 A Yes.
`
`Page 25
`
`1 Q Kept in the course of regularly conducted
`2 activity?
`3 A Yes.
`4 Q Was RFC 1123 made by the regularly conducted
`5 activity as a regular practice?
`6 A Yes.
`7 Q Was RFC 1123 publicly available as of the date
`8 listed on its face?
`9 A Yes.
`10 Q What date was RFC 1123 made publicly available?
`11 A In October 1989.
`12 (Exhibit 8 was marked for
`13 identification.)
`14 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: The court reporter is handing
`15 you what's been marked as Exhibit 8. It's request for
`16 comments 1631, with a Bates number 337-TA-858-IETF00345
`17 through 354.
`18 Was RFC 1631 at this Bates range produced in
`19 response to the subpoena?
`20 A Yes.
`21 Q Where did you locate this document?
`22 A On the RFC Editor website.
`23 Q How did you locate it?
`24 A I represent to the RFC Editor website, used the
`25 search engine to find RFC 1631, and made a copy of the
`
`Stratos Legal Services
`800-971-1127
`
`7 (Pages 22 to 25)
`
`b5be5f06-02c3-4c47-bd9f-8685fe29ee80
`
`Apple v. VirnetX, IPR2015-00866, Petitioner Apple Inc. - Exhibit 1063, p. 7
`
`

`
`Sandy Ginoza
`February 8, 2013
`
`Page 26
`
`Page 28
`
`1 file.
`2 Q Is the document that was produced at this Bates
`3 range a true and correct copy of the business record of
`4 RFC 1631 as it exists in the IETF files?
`5 A As it exists on the RFC Editor website, yes.
`6 Q Does this constitute a record of regularly
`7 conducted business activity?
`8 A Yes.
`9 Q Made at or near the time of the occurrence of
`10 the matters set forth?
`11 A Yes.
`12 Q By a person with knowledge of those matters?
`13 A Yes.
`14 Q Is it kept in the course of regularly conducted
`15 activity?
`16 A Yes.
`17 Q Made by the regularly conducted activity as a
`18 regular practice?
`19 A Yes.
`20 Q Was RFC 1631 publicly available as of the date
`21 listed on its face?
`22 A Yes.
`23 MS. GRESKOWIAK: (Inaudible.)
`24 MR. RIDINGS: We couldn't hear you, Stacie.
`25 MS. GRESKOWIAK: Sorry. I said "objection."
`Page 27
`1 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: What date was RFC 1631 made
`2 publicly available?
`3 A In May 1994.
`4 (Exhibit 9 was marked for
`5 identification.)
`6 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: The court reporter's handing
`7 you Exhibit 9, which is titled "Request for Comments:
`8 1889" with a Bates range of 337-TA-858-IETF00541 through
`9 611. Is that true?
`10 A Yes.
`11 Q Was this RFC 2052 produced in response to the
`12 subpoena? I'm sorry. RFC 1889 produced in response to
`13 the subpoena?
`14 A Yes.
`15 Q Where did you locate this document?
`16 A On the RFC Editor website.
`17 Q How do you locate it?
`18 A I went to the RFC Editor website, searched for
`19 RFC 1889, made a copy of the file.
`20 Q Is the document produced at this Bates range a
`21 true and correct copy of the file as it exists on the
`22 RFC Editor website?
`23 A Yes.
`24 Q And in the business records of the IETF?
`25 A As far as I know, yes.
`
`1 Q Does this constitute a record of regularly
`2 conducted business activity?
`3 A Yes.
`4 Q Was it made at or near the time of the
`5 occurrence of the matters set forth?
`6 A Yes.
`7 Q By a person with knowledge of those matters?
`8 A Yes.
`9 Q Kept in the course of regularly conducted
`10 activity?
`11 A Yes.
`12 Q Made by the regularly conducted activity as a
`13 regular practice?
`14 A Yes.
`15 Q Was RFC 1889 publicly available as of the date
`16 listed on its face?
`17 A Yes.
`18 MS. GRESKOWIAK: Objection.
`19 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: What date was RFC 1889 made
`20 publicly available?
`21 A In January 1996.
`22 Can I just clarify? So where you're saying the
`23 "IETF records," for me it's the RFC Editor records.
`24 Q Does -- what is the relationship between the
`25 RFC Editor records and the IETF?
`
`Page 29
`1 A The RFC Editor is the official publication
`2 series for the IETF. So we would be the official record
`3 keeper of their RFCs.
`4 Q Of their RFCs.
`5 A Yes.
`6 Q Okay, I understand.
`7 (Exhibit 10 was marked for
`8 identification.)
`9 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: You've just been handed
`10 Exhibit 10, which is titled "Request for Comments:
`11 2052" with a Bates number of 337-TA-858-IETF00715
`12 through 724. Is that correct?
`13 A Yes.
`14 Q Was RFC 2052 produced in response to the
`15 subpoena?
`16 A Yes.
`17 Q Where did you locate this document?
`18 A On the RFC Editor website.
`19 Q How did you locate it?
`20 A I went to the RFC Editor website, used the
`21 search engine, and made a copy of RFC 2052.
`22 Q Is the document produced at this Bates range a
`23 true and correct copy of RFC 2052 as it exists in the
`24 RFC Editor records?
`25 A Yes.
`
`Stratos Legal Services
`800-971-1127
`
`8 (Pages 26 to 29)
`
`b5be5f06-02c3-4c47-bd9f-8685fe29ee80
`
`Apple v. VirnetX, IPR2015-00866, Petitioner Apple Inc. - Exhibit 1063, p. 8
`
`

`
`Sandy Ginoza
`February 8, 2013
`
`Page 30
`
`Page 32
`
`1 Q Does it constitute a record of regularly
`2 conducted business activity?
`3 A Yes.
`4 Q Was it made at or near the time of the
`5 occurrence of the matters set forth?
`6 A Yes.
`7 Q By a person with knowledge of those matters?
`8 A Yes.
`9 Q Kept in the course of regularly conducted
`10 activity?
`11 A Yes.
`12 Q Made by the regularly conducted activity as a
`13 regular practice?
`14 A Yes.
`15 Q Was RFC 2052 publicly available as of the date
`16 listed on its face?
`17 A Yes.
`18 MS. GRESKOWIAK: Objection.
`19 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: What date was RFC 2052 made
`20 publicly available?
`21 A In October 1996.
`22 (Exhibit 11 was marked for
`23 identification.)
`24 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: The court reporter has just
`25 handed you Exhibit 11, which is titled "Request for
`Page 31
`
`1 activity?
`2 A Yes.
`3 Q Made by the regularly conducted activity as a
`4 regular practice?
`5 A Yes.
`6 Q Was RFC 2065 publicly available as of the date
`7 listed on its face?
`8 A Yes.
`9 Q What date was RFC 2065 made publicly available?
`10 A January 1997.
`11 MS. GRESKOWIAK: Objection.
`12 (Exhibit 12 was marked for
`13 identification.)
`14 Q BY MS. PESCHEL: The court reporter's just
`15 handed you what's been marked as Exhibit 12, which is
`16 titled "Request for Comments: 2131,