In the Matter Of:
`In the Matter Of:
`
`
`REGENTS OF THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTAREGENTS OF THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA
`
`-vs--vs-
`
`LSI CORPORATION, ET AL.LSI CORPORATION, ET AL.
`
`
`
`__________________________________________________________________________________________
`
`
`EMINA SOLJANINEMINA SOLJANIN
`
`May 09, 2018May 09, 2018
`
`
`
`__________________________________________________________________________________________
`
`Exhibit #
`
`UMN Exhibit 2008
`06/12/20 - AB
`
`

`

`EMINA SOLJANIN - 05/09/2018
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`Page 1
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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
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`SAN JOSE DIVISION
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`4 Civil Action No. Civ. 5:18-cv-00821-EJD-NMC
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`-----------------------------------------x
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`REGENTS OF THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA,
`
`Plaintiff,
`
`-against-
`
`LSI CORPORATION and AVAGO
`
`TECHNOLOGIES U.S. INC.,
`
`Defendants.
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`-----------------------------------------x
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`May 9, 2018
`
`8:58 a.m.
`
`Deposition of EMINA SOLJANIN
`
`taken by Plaintiff pursuant to Notice, held at
`
`the offices of K&L Gates LLP, 599 Lexington
`
`Avenue, New York, New York, before Frank J.
`
`Bas, a Registered Professional Reporter,
`
`24 Certified Realtime Reporter and Notary Public
`
`25
`
`of the State of New York. Job WDC-170935
`
`Epiq Court Reporting Solutions - Washington, DC
`1-800-292-4789
`www.deposition.com/washington-dc.htm
`
`Page 2 of358
`
`UMN EXHIBIT 2008
`LSI Corp. et al. v. Regents of Univ. of Minn.
`IPR2017-01068
`
`

`

`·1· ·USA.
`·2· · · · · · Q.· · And your business address?
`·3· · · · · · A.· · It's 94 Brett Road, Piscataway,
`·4· ·New Jersey, Rutgers University.
`·5· · · · · · Q.· · Professor, you understand that
`·6· ·you're under oath today, correct?
`·7· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`·8· · · · · · Q.· · And are you represented by
`·9· ·counsel?
`10· · · · · · A.· · Am I represented?
`11· · · · · · Q.· · Yes.
`12· · · · · · A.· · No.
`13· · · · · · Q.· · Is there any reason that you
`14· ·can't be truthful and accurate in your
`15· ·testimony today?
`16· · · · · · A.· · No.
`17· · · · · · Q.· · Are you on any medications that
`18· ·would affect your memory or your ability to
`19· ·give testimony today?
`20· · · · · · A.· · No.
`21· · · · · · Q.· · Have you ever been deposed
`22· ·before?
`23· · · · · · A.· · No.
`24· · · · · · Q.· · All right.· So this your first
`25· ·time so I'll go over a little bit of ground
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · MR. VERDINI:· Chris Verdini and
`·2· · · · · · Mark Knedeisen of K&L Gates on behalf
`·3· · · · · · of the plaintiff, Regents of the
`·4· · · · · · University of Minnesota.
`·5· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· David Sipiora and
`·6· · · · · · Ted Mayle from Kilpatrick Townsend.
`·7· · · · · · We represent the defendant LSI and
`·8· · · · · · Avago.
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · _ _ _
`10
`11· ·E M I N A· ·S O L J A N I N,
`12· ·called as a witness, having been first· duly
`13· ·sworn, was examined and testified
`14· ·as follows:
`15· ·EXAMINATION BY
`16· ·MR. VERDINI:
`17· · · · · · Q.· · Good morning, Professor.
`18· · · · · · A.· · Good morning.
`19· · · · · · Q.· · Can you state your full name
`20· ·for the record?
`21· · · · · · A.· · Emina Soljanin.
`22· · · · · · Q.· · What is your residential and
`23· ·business address?
`24· · · · · · A.· · My residential address is 26
`25· ·Britten Road, Green Village, New Jersey 07935.
`
`·1· ·rules.· The court reporter who is sitting to
`·2· ·your left is writing down everything that we
`·3· ·say, okay?
`·4· · · · · · A.· · (Nodding head affirmatively.)
`·5· · · · · · Q.· · So that's going to be the first
`·6· ·rule.· He can't take down shakes of the head,
`·7· ·so all of your answers have to be verbal.
`·8· ·Okay?
`·9· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`10· · · · · · Q.· · And because he's writing down
`11· ·what is said, when appropriate answer yes or
`12· ·no as opposed to "uh-huh" or "uh-uh," because
`13· ·that's not entirely clear when it's written
`14· ·down.· Okay?
`15· · · · · · A.· · I understand.
`16· · · · · · Q.· · If you don't understand a
`17· ·question that I've asked can you let me know
`18· ·so that I can try to rephrase.· Okay?
`19· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`20· · · · · · Q.· · And if you don't, I will assume
`21· ·you understand the question.· Okay?
`22· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`23· · · · · · Q.· · The other thing in normal
`24· ·conversation sometimes you know where my
`25· ·question is headed and you may want to talk
`
`

`

`·1· ·over me, that makes it very difficult for the
`·2· ·court reporter.· So if you could let me finish
`·3· ·my question first before you answer, and I'll
`·4· ·let you answer before I ask my next question
`·5· ·so that the transcript is clear.· Okay?
`·6· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`·7· · · · · · Q.· · And lastly, if you need a break
`·8· ·at any time just let me know.· If there's a
`·9· ·question pending I may ask you to answer that
`10· ·question before we take the break, but we'll
`11· ·accommodate your break request as soon as we
`12· ·can.· All right?
`13· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`14· · · · · · Q.· · What did you do to prepare for
`15· ·today's deposition?
`16· · · · · · A.· · I reviewed the documents and I
`17· ·met with Mr. Mayle and Mr. Sipiora.
`18· · · · · · Q.· · What documents did you review?
`19· · · · · · A.· · I reviewed original patent,
`20· ·'601.· I reviewed my declaration.· I looked
`21· ·into court cases.
`22· · · · · · Q.· · When you say you looked --
`23· · · · · · A.· · Case histories.· Sorry.
`24· · · · · · Q.· · Sorry.· Go ahead?
`25· · · · · · A.· · Case histories, I think they're
`
`·1· ·case to provide expert testimony on behalf of
`·2· ·the defendants LSI and Avago, is that your
`·3· ·understanding?
`·4· · · · · · A.· · Correct.
`·5· · · · · · Q.· · Do you know when you were
`·6· ·retained?
`·7· · · · · · A.· · I believe it was the fall of
`·8· ·2016.· I don't remember exact day.
`·9· · · · · · Q.· · And in connection with your
`10· ·work for LSI and Avago in this case have you
`11· ·worked with anybody else?
`12· · · · · · A.· · No.
`13· · · · · · Q.· · Have you ever been retained by
`14· ·LSI or Avago to provide expert testimony in
`15· ·any other case?
`16· · · · · · A.· · No.
`17· · · · · · Q.· · What about a company called
`18· ·Broadcom Limited?
`19· · · · · · A.· · No.
`20· · · · · · Q.· · And have you provided expert
`21· ·testimony in any other patent case prior to
`22· ·this one?
`23· · · · · · A.· · No.
`24· · · · · · Q.· · All right.
`25· · · · · · · · · MR. VERDINI:· I am going to
`
`·1· ·called.
`·2· · · · · · Q.· · Case histories.
`·3· · · · · · A.· · Right.
`·4· · · · · · Q.· · When you say you looked at case
`·5· ·histories, what are you referring to
`·6· ·specifically?
`·7· · · · · · A.· · This was a file that included
`·8· ·my previous declaration and description of --
`·9· ·of the background material for the patent, and
`10· ·also the provisional application, and the
`11· ·declaration of Professor McLaughlin.
`12· · · · · · Q.· · Who prepared the case history?
`13· · · · · · A.· · Mr. Sipiora and Mr. Mayle.
`14· · · · · · Q.· · Did you have any input into
`15· ·what was put into the case history that you
`16· ·reviewed in preparation for today?
`17· · · · · · A.· · No.
`18· · · · · · Q.· · You also said you met with
`19· ·Mr. Mayle and Mr. Sipiora, is that correct?
`20· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`21· · · · · · Q.· · When was that?
`22· · · · · · A.· · Yesterday.
`23· · · · · · Q.· · And for how long?
`24· · · · · · A.· · From 10 a.m. until 3 p.m.
`25· · · · · · Q.· · You've been retained in this
`
`·1· · · · · · introduce just a few exhibits so that
`·2· · · · · · you'll have them in front of you, the
`·3· · · · · · ones that we'll be referring to.
`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · ---
`·5· · · · · · · · · (Deposition Exhibit 1,
`·6· · · · · · U.S. patent number 5,859,601 was
`·7· · · · · · marked for identification)
`·8· · · · · · · · · · · · ---
`·9· ·BY MR. VERDINI:
`10· · · · · · Q.· · I am going to hand you what has
`11· ·been marked as exhibit 1.
`12· · · · · · · · · Professor, do you recognize
`13· ·exhibit 1 as U.S. patent number 5,859,601?
`14· · · · · · A.· · I do.
`15· · · · · · Q.· · And you understand that this is
`16· ·the patent that's being asserted by the
`17· ·university against LSI and Avago in this case?
`18· · · · · · A.· · I do.
`19· · · · · · · · · · · · ---
`20· · · · · · · · · (Deposition Exhibit 2, joint
`21· · · · · · claim construction and prehearing
`22· · · · · · statement was marked for
`23· · · · · · identification)
`24· · · · · · · · · · · · ---
`25· ·BY MR. VERDINI:
`
`

`

`·1· · · · · · Q.· · I hand you what has been marked
`·2· ·as exhibit 2.· Professor, do you recognize
`·3· ·exhibit 2?
`·4· · · · · · A.· · I do.
`·5· · · · · · Q.· · And what do you understand it
`·6· ·to be?
`·7· · · · · · A.· · It's my signed declaration.
`·8· · · · · · Q.· · Almost.· Exhibit 2 is the joint
`·9· ·claim construction and prehearing statement
`10· ·that the parties filed without the exhibits.
`11· · · · · · A.· · Oh, I see.
`12· · · · · · Q.· · One of the exhibits is your
`13· ·declaration.· Have you seen just the main
`14· ·document, the joint claim construction and
`15· ·prehearing statement before today?
`16· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`17· · · · · · · · · · · · ---
`18· · · · · · · · · (Deposition Exhibit 3,
`19· · · · · · declaration of Professor Emina
`20· · · · · · Soljanin was marked for
`21· · · · · · identification)
`22· · · · · · · · · · · · ---
`23· ·BY MR. VERDINI:
`24· · · · · · Q.· · And last one for now, I am
`25· ·going to show you what has been marked as
`
`·1· ·(as read):
`·2· · · · · · · · · I have been engaged as an
`·3· · · · · · expert on behalf of LSI corporation
`·4· · · · · · and Avago Technologies U.S. Inc.
`·5· · · · · · (collectively, defendants or LSI) in
`·6· · · · · · the above referenced case and in the
`·7· · · · · · inter partes review, IPR proceeding
`·8· · · · · · involving the in patent-in-suit.
`·9· · · · · · · · · Is that an accurate statement,
`10· ·that you have been engaged not only for the
`11· ·district court litigation but also for the IPR
`12· ·proceeding?
`13· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`14· · · · · · Q.· · And is it correct that you
`15· ·submitted a declaration in that IPR
`16· ·proceeding?
`17· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`18· · · · · · Q.· · And in that declaration your
`19· ·opinion was that certain prior art references
`20· ·invalidated the claims of the '601 patent,
`21· ·correct?
`22· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`23· · · · · · · · · · · · ---
`24· · · · · · · · · (Deposition Exhibit 4,
`25· · · · · · declaration of Professor Emina
`
`·1· ·exhibit 3.· Professor, do you recognize
`·2· ·exhibit 3 as your declaration that you
`·3· ·submitted in connection with the joint claim
`·4· ·construction and prehearing statement that was
`·5· ·marked as exhibit 2?
`·6· · · · · · A.· · The first part of it, yes.· And
`·7· ·then there are appendices, it seems.
`·8· · · · · · Q.· · Pardon?
`·9· · · · · · A.· · There is declaration followed
`10· ·by an appendix.
`11· · · · · · Q.· · Right.· And your declaration
`12· ·incorporates the appendices that are attached
`13· ·or part of exhibit 3, correct?
`14· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`15· · · · · · Q.· · If you turn to page 15 of your
`16· ·declaration.· On page 15, is that your
`17· ·signature at the bottom of the page?
`18· · · · · · A.· · Yes, it is.
`19· · · · · · Q.· · And in paragraph 60 you
`20· ·declared under penalty of perjury that what
`21· ·you identified in the, or what you stated in
`22· ·the declaration was true and correct, right?
`23· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`24· · · · · · Q.· · On exhibit 3, if you would turn
`25· ·to paragraph 1.· In the introduction you wrote
`
`·1· · · · · · Soljanin regarding U.S. patent No.
`·2· · · · · · 5,859,601 was marked for
`·3· · · · · · identification)
`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · ---
`·5· ·BY MR. VERDINI:
`·6· · · · · · Q.· · I am going to hand you what has
`·7· ·been marked as exhibit 4.· Professor, do you
`·8· ·recognize what's been marked as exhibit 4 as
`·9· ·the declaration that you submitted in the IPR
`10· ·proceeding referenced in paragraph 1 of your
`11· ·declaration in this district court litigation?
`12· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`13· · · · · · Q.· · And on page 2 of that
`14· ·declaration, using the numbers in the bottom
`15· ·right, that's your signature at the bottom,
`16· ·correct?
`17· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`18· · · · · · Q.· · It's dated March 9, 2017,
`19· ·correct?
`20· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`21· · · · · · Q.· · So that was before the joint --
`22· ·the declaration that you submitted in
`23· ·connection with claim construction in the
`24· ·district court litigation, correct?
`25· · · · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`

`

`·1· · · · · · Q.· · And on page 2 above your
`·2· ·signature you declare and state that the
`·3· ·statements in the declaration are true to the
`·4· ·best of your information and belief, and made
`·5· ·under penalty of perjury, correct?
`·6· · · · · · A.· · Correct.
`·7· · · · · · Q.· · Let's go back to -- we're going
`·8· ·to look at exhibit 4 throughout today so you
`·9· ·can put it to the side for now, but let's go
`10· ·back to exhibit 3.· And if you would turn to
`11· ·paragraph 3.· And does paragraph 3 reflect the
`12· ·opinion that you are giving in the district
`13· ·court litigation in connection with claim
`14· ·construction?
`15· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`16· · · · · · Q.· · And your opinion is that the
`17· ·asserted claims, which are claims 13, 14 and
`18· ·17, are indefinite under 35 USC section
`19· ·112(b), correct?
`20· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`21· · · · · · Q.· · Now if you would turn to
`22· ·exhibit 2, and go to page 3, please.· In the
`23· ·paragraph that states LSI intends to rely on,
`24· ·do you see that?
`25· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· Today's
`·2· · · · · · deposition, yes.
`·3· · · · · · · · · MR. VERDINI:· And the claim
`·4· · · · · · construction briefing, she'll be
`·5· · · · · · limited --
`·6· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· Correct.
`·7· · · · · · · · · MR. VERDINI:· -- to the
`·8· · · · · · indefiniteness opinions that are in
`·9· · · · · · her declaration that's been marked as
`10· · · · · · exhibit 3?
`11· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· That's accurate.
`12· ·BY MR. VERDINI:
`13· · · · · · Q.· · So go back to exhibit 3, which
`14· ·is your declaration in the district court
`15· ·litigation of claim construction, and turn to
`16· ·paragraph 5 which is on page 2.· In paragraph
`17· ·5 you write I am being compensated at a rate
`18· ·of $420 per hour for my consulting services,
`19· ·including the preparation of this declaration.
`20· · · · · · · · · Is that an accurate statement?
`21· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`22· · · · · · Q.· · And is $420 per hour a regular
`23· ·rate for your consulting services?
`24· · · · · · A.· · I cannot -- I don't have
`25· ·anything else to compare with.
`
`·1· · · · · · Q.· · Is it your understanding that
`·2· ·your testimony will be offered only on the
`·3· ·issue of indefiniteness and not for purposes
`·4· ·of general claim construction?
`·5· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· Well, that's
`·6· · · · · · really a question for counsel, and I
`·7· · · · · · can confirm that's the case.
`·8· · · · · · · · · MR. VERDINI:· Okay.· And I'll
`·9· · · · · · ask it, and you can confirm.
`10· ·BY MR. VERDINI:
`11· · · · · · Q.· · You are not providing any
`12· ·testimony on any of the alternate
`13· ·constructions that LSI has offered to the
`14· ·extent that a claim identified by you as
`15· ·indefinite, determines that it's not
`16· ·indefinite, is that correct?
`17· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· Professor
`18· · · · · · Soljanin is only offering opinions
`19· · · · · · that are in her report and she does
`20· · · · · · not opine on those subjects.
`21· · · · · · · · · MR. VERDINI:· Okay.
`22· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· In her report.
`23· · · · · · Obviously later in the case --
`24· · · · · · · · · MR. VERDINI:· Correct.· In
`25· · · · · · connection with claim construction --
`
`·1· · · · · · Q.· · This is the first time that
`·2· ·you've consulted in this forum, is that
`·3· ·correct?
`·4· · · · · · A.· · Correct, yes.
`·5· · · · · · Q.· · How many hours did you spend on
`·6· ·preparing the declaration that we've marked as
`·7· ·exhibit 3?
`·8· · · · · · A.· · I don't remember exactly how
`·9· ·many hours.
`10· · · · · · Q.· · Can you approximate?
`11· · · · · · A.· · Not more than ten.
`12· · · · · · Q.· · And approximately how many
`13· ·hours did you spend drafting the declaration
`14· ·in the IPR that's attached -- or that we've
`15· ·marked as exhibit 4?
`16· · · · · · A.· · This was the declaration that
`17· ·was submitted a year ago?
`18· · · · · · Q.· · Yes.
`19· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· So I'm going to
`20· · · · · · object, outside the scope.· Not
`21· · · · · · relevant to this deposition.· And
`22· · · · · · really taking discovery in the IPR.
`23· · · · · · So I object; outside the scope. I
`24· · · · · · can't instruct not to answer, but I'm
`25· · · · · · going to object.· Any inquiry that
`
`

`

`·1· · · · · · looks like discovery in the IPR is not
`·2· · · · · · appropriate here.· So outside the
`·3· · · · · · scope; object.
`·4· · · · · · · · · MR. VERDINI:· I think it
`·5· · · · · · connects to her declaration in this
`·6· · · · · · case, so ...
`·7· ·BY MR. VERDINI:
`·8· · · · · · Q.· · Can you approximate how many
`·9· ·hours you spent on the declaration submitted
`10· ·in the IPR that's been marked as exhibit 4?
`11· · · · · · A.· · Not more than ten.
`12· · · · · · Q.· · And leaving aside anyone, any
`13· ·lawyer for LSI or Avago, has anyone assisted
`14· ·you with drafting the declaration that's been
`15· ·marked as exhibit 3 in the district court
`16· ·litigation?
`17· · · · · · A.· · No.
`18· · · · · · Q.· · And the same question with
`19· ·respect to the declaration you submitted in
`20· ·the IPR?
`21· · · · · · A.· · No.
`22· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· The same
`23· · · · · · objection, outside the scope.
`24· ·BY MR. VERDINI:
`25· · · · · · Q.· · Professor, you were employed by
`
`·1· ·Bell Labs?
`·2· · · · · · A.· · I was in general conducting
`·3· ·research on information theory and coding.
`·4· · · · · · Q.· · Your declaration refers to some
`·5· ·teaching that you did also while you were at
`·6· ·Bell Labs, is that correct?
`·7· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`·8· · · · · · Q.· · Can you give me a sense of
`·9· ·percentage of the time that you were teaching
`10· ·versus working at Bell Labs?
`11· · · · · · A.· · So I worked at Bell Labs for 21
`12· ·years, and I taught at Brooklyn Poly one
`13· ·semester.· At Columbia two-and-a-half
`14· ·semesters.· Everything else was less than a
`15· ·week, at a conference, tutorial, something
`16· ·like that.
`17· · · · · · Q.· · So a small percentage of your
`18· ·work?
`19· · · · · · A.· · Very small.
`20· · · · · · Q.· · Do you know Professor Steven
`21· ·McLaughlin?
`22· · · · · · A.· · I do.
`23· · · · · · Q.· · How long have you known him?
`24· · · · · · A.· · I don't know exact date that we
`25· ·met, but I do believe that I know -- I knew
`
`·1· ·Bell Labs from approximately 1995 to 2015, is
`·2· ·that right?
`·3· · · · · · A.· · From September '94 until the
`·4· ·end of 2015.
`·5· · · · · · Q.· · Can you give a brief
`·6· ·description of what Bell Labs is?
`·7· · · · · · A.· · Bell Labs is research arm of --
`·8· ·well, there are four companies that I went
`·9· ·through, and Bell Labs is the research arm of
`10· ·all four.
`11· · · · · · Q.· · And what were the four
`12· ·companies that were a part of Bell Labs?
`13· · · · · · A.· · First parent company was AT&T.
`14· ·The second parent company was Lucent
`15· ·Technologies.· The third parent company was
`16· ·Alcatel Lucent.· And the last one was Nokia.
`17· · · · · · Q.· · Does Bell Labs currently exist
`18· ·today, to your knowledge?
`19· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`20· · · · · · Q.· · And is Nokia still the parent
`21· ·company of Bell Labs?
`22· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`23· · · · · · Q.· · Can you describe at a high
`24· ·level what your responsibilities were over the
`25· ·course of the 20 -- about 20 years you were at
`
`·1· ·him very early when I started working at Bell
`·2· ·Labs.
`·3· · · · · · Q.· · And in the course of that time
`·4· ·have you ever worked on any research with him?
`·5· · · · · · A.· · On a research problem, no.
`·6· · · · · · Q.· · Are you familiar with his
`·7· ·research work?
`·8· · · · · · A.· · Not anymore.
`·9· · · · · · Q.· · There was a time when you were?
`10· · · · · · A.· · There was a time when I heard
`11· ·him give talks, which I don't remember at the
`12· ·moment.
`13· · · · · · Q.· · What were the general subject
`14· ·matters, if you recall, of the talks?
`15· · · · · · A.· · It was in recording.
`16· ·Information recording.
`17· · · · · · Q.· · Have you ever used Professor
`18· ·McLaughlin's research in your work?
`19· · · · · · A.· · Not that I remember.
`20· · · · · · Q.· · Would you consider him someone
`21· ·skilled in the art in coding and detection?
`22· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`23· · · · · · Q.· · And do you respect his work?
`24· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`25· · · · · · Q.· · You are currently a professor
`
`

`

`·1· ·at Rutgers?
`·2· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`·3· · · · · · Q.· · What do you teach?
`·4· · · · · · A.· · Since I started I taught coding
`·5· ·theory and probability theory.
`·6· · · · · · Q.· · To what types of students?
`·7· · · · · · A.· · Coding theory is a graduate
`·8· ·class.· Probability theory is an undergraduate
`·9· ·class.· Sophomore.
`10· · · · · · Q.· · Do you still conduct research?
`11· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`12· · · · · · Q.· · What percentage of your time
`13· ·now is dedicated to research versus teaching?
`14· · · · · · A.· · It's about equally split.· At
`15· ·least for the paid hours.
`16· · · · · · Q.· · What, generally speaking, is
`17· ·the research that you are currently doing?
`18· · · · · · A.· · Generally I work on distributed
`19· ·systems.
`20· · · · · · Q.· · Can you say that again?· I am
`21· ·sorry?
`22· · · · · · A.· · Distributed systems.
`23· · · · · · Q.· · What are distributed systems?
`24· · · · · · A.· · It can be distributed storage.
`25· ·Distributed computing.· Whatever is not done
`
`·1· ·enhancing code in paragraph 12.· What is it?
`·2· ·Does it have a name?
`·3· · · · · · A.· · It did have a name.· I don't
`·4· ·remember the name that we used.
`·5· · · · · · Q.· · And you wrote that that
`·6· ·distance enhancing code was implemented in
`·7· ·commercial magnetic storage devices, correct?
`·8· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`·9· · · · · · Q.· · What commercial magnetic
`10· ·storage devices was it implemented in?
`11· · · · · · A.· · That was the late '90s.· There
`12· ·were channel chips that we produced.· But
`13· ·that's about all I remember.
`14· · · · · · Q.· · And you said that "we
`15· ·produced."
`16· · · · · · · · · When you say we, who are you
`17· ·referring to?
`18· · · · · · A.· · Lucent Technologies.
`19· · · · · · Q.· · Can you describe -- you said
`20· ·you couldn't name it.· Can you describe what
`21· ·the first distance enhancing code was that you
`22· ·are referring to there?
`23· · · · · · A.· · It was a code that removed
`24· ·certain strings from all possible sequences.
`25· · · · · · Q.· · What strings did it remove?
`
`·1· ·at the single computer, single machine, but
`·2· ·multiple machines.
`·3· · · · · · Q.· · If you would look at paragraph
`·4· ·12 of your declaration which has been marked
`·5· ·as exhibit 3.· In paragraph 12 you write --
`·6· ·you are discussing your employment with Bell
`·7· ·Labs, correct?
`·8· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`·9· · · · · · Q.· · And you refer to, in the second
`10· ·sentence, that the projects that you worked on
`11· ·include (as read):
`12· · · · · · · · · Designing the first distance
`13· · · · · · enhancing codes to be implemented in
`14· · · · · · commercial magnetic storage devices.
`15· · · · · · ·When you say "distance enhancing
`16· ·codes" what do you mean?
`17· · · · · · A.· · These are codes which would
`18· ·cause the distance between the possible
`19· ·sequences that can be received, at the output
`20· ·of the channel to be larger than if it didn't
`21· ·have the code.
`22· · · · · · Q.· · And what is the scope of --
`23· · · · · · · · · MR. VERDINI:· Strike that.
`24· ·BY MR. VERDINI:
`25· · · · · · Q.· · You identify specific distance
`
`·1· · · · · · A.· · I don't remember which strings
`·2· ·were in the first code removed.
`·3· · · · · · Q.· · The distance enhancing codes
`·4· ·that you were working on, were they relevant
`·5· ·to peak detectors?
`·6· · · · · · A.· · No.
`·7· · · · · · Q.· · Why not?
`·8· · · · · · A.· · Because at that time peak
`·9· ·detectors were not in use anymore.
`10· · · · · · Q.· · And so what were the systems
`11· ·that were in use at the time of the distance
`12· ·enhancing codes that you were designing?
`13· · · · · · A.· · These were sequence detectors.
`14· · · · · · Q.· · And again what was the time
`15· ·frame?
`16· · · · · · A.· · The late '90s.
`17· · · · · · Q.· · And when you say late '90s, is
`18· ·it '97, '98?
`19· · · · · · A.· · So I started working on these
`20· ·codes since I came in '94, and I believe that
`21· ·the first chips were made in about '98.
`22· ·That's to the best of my recollection. I
`23· ·don't claim that to be exact dates.
`24· · · · · · Q.· · Moving to paragraph 13 you
`25· ·write (as read):
`
`

`

`·1· · · · · · · · · According to the University's
`·2· · · · · · allegations in the first amended
`·3· · · · · · complaint in this case, the alleged
`·4· · · · · · invention of the '601 patent is,
`·5· · · · · · quote, maximum transition run, end
`·6· · · · · · quote, MTR, code featuring a, quote, j
`·7· · · · · · constraint, which, quote, imposes a
`·8· · · · · · limit on the maximum number of
`·9· · · · · · consecutive transitions, end quote, in
`10· · · · · · a binary system.
`11· · · · · · · · · Is that correct?
`12· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`13· · · · · · Q.· · When you say in a binary system
`14· ·what are you referring to?
`15· · · · · · A.· · That means that the symbols
`16· ·that are used in sequences are 0's and 1's.
`17· · · · · · Q.· · In your opinion what sorts of
`18· ·systems are binary systems?
`19· · · · · · A.· · All systems that can either
`20· ·transmit and receive or record, what
`21· ·corresponds to 0's and 1's.
`22· · · · · · Q.· · Magnetic storage is a binary
`23· ·system?
`24· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`25· · · · · · Q.· · If you turn to exhibit 4, which
`
`·1· ·claim construction declaration, you changed
`·2· ·the word "hard disk drive" to binary system,
`·3· ·correct?
`·4· · · · · · A.· · Changed?· I did not have this
`·5· ·in mind when I was writing the -- this
`·6· ·opinion.
`·7· · · · · · Q.· · So why did you describe it as
`·8· ·being an invention of a hard disk drive in the
`·9· ·IPR declaration and change it to -- and
`10· ·describe it as a binary system in paragraph 13
`11· ·of your claim construction declaration?
`12· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· Objection as to
`13· · · · · · form.· But you can go ahead and
`14· · · · · · answer.· This is a legal thing.
`15· · · · · · A.· · I believe here I was looking at
`16· ·the system, at storage, and here I was
`17· ·thinking about mathematics, probably.
`18· · · · · · Q.· · You were thinking about?
`19· · · · · · A.· · Mathematics, about 0's and 1's.
`20· · · · · · Q.· · You used "this" so let's try to
`21· ·be -- and I know you're looking at two
`22· ·different things.· When you said you were
`23· ·referring to the system, you were saying in
`24· ·paragraph 13 of your IPR declaration, correct?
`25· · · · · · A.· · IPR declaration is this one
`
`·1· ·is your IPR declaration.· At page -- I am
`·2· ·going to use the numbers of the actual
`·3· ·declaration as opposed to the numbers that are
`·4· ·in the bottom right.· So page 4 of your
`·5· ·declaration paragraph 13.· Do you see that?
`·6· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`·7· · · · · · Q.· · In paragraph 13 you write (as
`·8· ·read):
`·9· · · · · · · · · According to the patent owner,
`10· · · · · · the alleged invention of the '601
`11· · · · · · patent is, quote, maximum transition
`12· · · · · · run, end quote, MTR code, featuring a
`13· · · · · · quote, j constraint, end quote, which,
`14· · · · · · quote, imposes a limit on the maximum
`15· · · · · · number of consecutive transitions that
`16· · · · · · are written to the disk, end quote, of
`17· · · · · · a hard disk drive.
`18· ·Did I read that correctly?
`19· · · · · · A.· · You read correctly.
`20· · · · · · Q.· · Yes?· You said?· I'm sorry. I
`21· ·didn't hear you.
`22· · · · · · A.· · I have the same text.
`23· · · · · · Q.· · Okay.· You would agree
`24· ·comparing what you wrote in paragraph 13 in
`25· ·the IPR declaration to paragraph 13 in your
`
`·1· ·(indicating).
`·2· · · · · · Q.· · The one that says hard disk
`·3· ·drive?
`·4· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`·5· · · · · · Q.· · Okay.· And so why did you use
`·6· ·hard disk drive in paragraph 13 of the IPR
`·7· ·declaration?
`·8· · · · · · A.· · Because it was about to
`·9· ·describe.· The invention is about to describe.
`10· · · · · · Q.· · And in your mind is hard disk
`11· ·drive the same thing as binary system?
`12· · · · · · A.· · Binary systems are a more
`13· ·general form.
`14· · · · · · Q.· · So why did you use the more
`15· ·general form in your declaration in connection
`16· ·with claim construction in the district court
`17· ·litigation?
`18· · · · · · A.· · That I don't know.
`19· · · · · · Q.· · Did you change that language?
`20· · · · · · A.· · No. I did not have this in
`21· ·front of me (indicating) when this was done
`22· ·(indicating).
`23· · · · · · Q.· · So in connection with drafting
`24· ·your declaration in the claim construction --
`25· · · · · · · · · MR. VERDINI:· Strike that.
`
`

`

`·1· ·BY MR. VERDINI:
`·2· · · · · · Q.· · In connection with drafting
`·3· ·your declaration in the district court
`·4· ·litigation relating to claim construction you
`·5· ·did not look at your IPR declaration, is that
`·6· ·correct?
`·7· · · · · · A.· · I did not look into this
`·8· ·sentence when this sentence was written
`·9· ·(indicating).
`10· · · · · · Q.· · Do you recall writing the
`11· ·description of the invention in paragraph 13
`12· ·of your claim construction declaration, which
`13· ·is marked as exhibit 3?
`14· · · · · · A.· · I recall discussing this with
`15· ·Mr. Mayle, who made the draft.
`16· · · · · · Q.· · And what did you discuss about
`17· ·the reference to binary system?
`18· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· Objection;
`19· · · · · · instruct not to answer.
`20· · · · · · · · · (Instruction not to answer.)
`21· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· Attorney work
`22· · · · · · product.
`23· · · · · · · · · MR. VERDINI:· I think she's
`24· · · · · · relied upon it in connection with
`25· · · · · · drafting her opinion.· So it should be
`
`·1· · · · · · that general instruction.
`·2· · · · · · · · · Can we have the question back,
`·3· · · · · · please?
`·4· · · · · · · · · (The reporter read back as
`·5· · · · · · follows:
`·6· · · · · · · · · "Question:· Did you rely on
`·7· · · · · · counsel to describe the invention as
`·8· · · · · · being in a binary system in connection
`·9· · · · · · with exhibit 3?)"
`10· · · · · · A.· · No.
`11· · · · · · Q.· · But you did testify that that
`12· ·was something that you discussed with counsel,
`13· ·correct?
`14· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· Objection;
`15· · · · · · instruct not to answer.
`16· · · · · · · · · MR. VERDINI:· I think she
`17· · · · · · testified she talked to counsel about
`18· · · · · · it, so that's a yes-or-no question.
`19· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· I still am
`20· · · · · · instructing not to answer.
`21· · · · · · · · · (Instruction not to answer.)
`22· ·BY MR. VERDINI:
`23· · · · · · Q.· · Did you have a discussion with
`24· ·counsel about describing the invention as
`25· ·being in a binary system in connection with
`
`·1· · · · · · something underlying why it's there.
`·2· · · · · · So I think that's not privileged.
`·3· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· I think you're
`·4· · · · · · wrong.
`·5· · · · · · · · · MR. VERDINI:· You're
`·6· · · · · · instructing her not to answer?
`·7· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· I just did.
`·8· ·BY MR. VERDINI:
`·9· · · · · · Q.· · Are you going to accept your
`10· ·counsel's instructions?
`11· · · · · · A.· · Yes.
`12· · · · · · Q.· · Did you rely on counsel to
`13· ·describe the invention as being in a binary
`14· ·system in connection with exhibit 3?
`15· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· Professor, I'll
`16· · · · · · just instruct you that any
`17· · · · · · communication you had with counsel in
`18· · · · · · connection with preparing any of the
`19· · · · · · legal documents in this case is
`20· · · · · · covered by the work product doctrine
`21· · · · · · and the rules of the court as not
`22· · · · · · discoverable.· So any answer you give,
`23· · · · · · please don't delve into or describe or
`24· · · · · · characterize communications you had
`25· · · · · · with counsel.· So I'll just give you
`
`·1· ·drafting your IPR declaration that's been
`·2· ·marked as exhibit 4?
`·3· · · · · · · · · MR. SIPIORA:· The same
`·4· · · · · · instruction.· Instruct not to answer
`·5· · · · · · based on attorney work product.
`·6· · · · · · · · · (Instruction not to answer.)
`·7· ·BY MR. VERDINI:
`·8· · · · · · Q.· · While we're talking about
`·9· ·describing the invention of the '601 patent, I
`10· ·am going to show you what has been marked as
`11· ·exhibit 5.
`12· · · · · · · ·